Bislobo wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Bislobo wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Sketchy business practice at best with some clever wording there to screw all the people they think they have over a barrel with their craft bag.

Can't use crowns and have to pay for it. Yeah, so loyal customers who have been getting plus for month after month with nothing but garbage in the store to spend those crowns on get slapped in the face.

*sigh*

So glad I deleted my game. Clearly was the right choice to get out from under this bus.

Yet you still QQ in the forums "Sketchy"

I heard about morrowind and wanted to check it out. I was feeling iffy based on housing. And oh look. No surprise, it turns out to be more nonsense. So yeah, I still would read the forum. Now mostly to see what new things they are going to try to pull. Nothing sketchy about it. Now it's just me watching to see how many people in this place have like one wit of sense to know when they are being screwed. Clearly, not many. Must be the gaming addiction. Junkies pretty much will let anyone do anything to them just to get a fix. Same thing here.

You only buy the package if you want, it's not like like zos is pointing a gun at you, forcing you to buy their wares. So you only get "screwed" if you want. If you think it is worth the money, buy it, if you don't, save your money. It's really that simple.

You clearly don't know what a bait and switch is. They promised access to all future DLC as part of the way they got people to sign up for their ESO+ which was pretty lame but because of access to all DLC with some crowns and the craft bag it's useful. But now they are going out of their way to say this is not DLC. It's an 'expansion'. All DLC is an expansion, technically speaking. But they said quarterly DLC and we hadn't had quarterly DLC. So most subscribers were generous in supporting them anyway. Sadly too many probably dole out for several months at a time rather than month by month. So this means that when Morrowind comes out all those subscribers are getting screwed. Promises are broken and they made it so you don't have a solid legal claim because they are doing an end run around it.

What really gets me is that for them to be so concerned about losing money from plus players then they must have many, many subs. Else they would not mind too much knowing that people who sub will need to keep subbing. For them to do an end run in this way, they have to have more subs that we can fathom which means they have been raking in the $$$ and still haven't fixed issues with servers, still haven't really addressed the lags or problems that go on after maintenance. People probably log on for a month and sub for a year. It's like gym memberships at new year's. Only here they want to make sure that all those people who have subs not being used right now come back and give them MORE money. And that is what the problem is. It's just barely this side of legal. They have some shifty lawyers working for them. But it doesn't surprise me. Their practices of late have been looking shadier and shadier.

I would have happily paid for the DLC if it were not handled so *** poorly and triggering my shifty business practices radar. I'm not sure how it could have been handled less poorly because it is a DLC and that is shady that you can't access it for plus members who as part of their ESO + package were told they would have access. Lies. Lies. Lies. I'm so tired of the lies. The rewriting of facts, shifty double talk, con artist behavior, charging obscene amounts of crowns for things just to see how far they can go. They do this because they have a bunch of fanboy junkie gamers who will just nod and get taken for the ride. Great for the fanboys who want that. That is fine. But they think this is a good deal. They are cool with it. They see no sketchy practice going on. That is a huge problem. They are learning that it is acceptable for companies to lie to you and then do what they want. They are so submissive and pliant that they are arguing in their favor. It's like the forum is filled with a bunch of flying monkey enablers.

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

I was so excited after the Twitch stream. Now I'm not. Well done, ZOS, good job.

It's all a matter of perception. Morrowind is essentially going to cost me 5500 Crowns, and I would have paid that in the Crown Store. This makes it really hard to get worked up about them doing a paid Chapter/Expansion instead of a DLC. Believe me, I went into this whole thing primed to get worked up. I was expecting bad news, which some of the rest of you got, even if I didn't.

In the end, I got a cash-only upgrade to the game that includes a large new zone, and new class. It was not a hard decision to make, given the time and money I already have in the game. I was expecting much worse.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

mrkaco_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

jluchau wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno do you know, will there be a crown store option to buy Morrowind?

No - Morrowind can only be purchased digitally or through a retailer. As it's not a DLC game pack but an entirely new Chapter, it will not be in the Crown Store.

Absolutely disappointing.

I believe the reason why they did this is because of the monthly 1500 crowns we get with the sub my guess.

And yet they could have easily priced it at 5-6k crowns and made a minimum of 4 months of ESO+ to offset that price. Having a physical release should never counter a digital version for your active community. It's Morrowind in 2017, not 2002.

Also you get what you pay for, you got crowns & craft bag and the 10% xp boost ontop of all that, WoW gives you nothing to sub and yet more people play WoW than Swtor, Eso, FF14, and probably most of the MMO's on the current market atm put together.

And to be fair ESO+ includes all future DLC. ZOS could have easily kept ESO a sub-only game; they didn't. I guess we are all paying for that decision now though. Still, there is absolutely no reason to pay-wall Battlegrounds or the Warden behind Morrowind.

I think $40 (or more) for this piece of content seems a bit hefty, esp when compared to the other DLCs. Unless this is twice the size of Orsinium or more, this doesn't seem as worth it.

The whole DLC vs. expansion argument just seems like a whole lot of marketing speak. This is a DLC. It's not a standalone title, since there's no way to buy Morrowind without the base game. Similar to the other DLCs, I'm pretty sure that even those who choose not to purchase access will have to download many GBs worth of content on patch day come June 6th. The content will be on your computer whether or not you pay to unlock it. There is no opting out of this. ZOS has simply chosen to arbitrarily define this new thing as an "expansion" to weasel out of providing subscribers access to it, and to ensure that all of us, whether new users or old, pay real money for it.

Is ZOS allowed to do this? I'm no legal expert, but I'm pretty sure their TOS allows them to, in the words of Darth Vader, alter the deal at any moment. Is it good for the consumer? I would say no. But the thing that baffles me the most is why they would actively try to devalue their own subscription service. You've set a dangerous precedent here ZOS. Suddenly, Crowns and the sub aren't as valuable as people once thought they were. As consumers, we don't know what your future DLC/expansion release schedule is, and we don't know when you're going to arbitrarily restrict something as an "expansion" or what have you for the sake of squeezing more bucks out of us. Consumer trust is not an infinite resource, and subscribing many months in advance is an act of trust that we're going to get something nice for our investments. Pulling this sort of surprise change isn't very nice honestly, especially for people who have sub time remaining.

I'm sure most of us would appreciate it if in the Road Ahead 2017, you set out to tell us whether this "expansion" concept is going to be a recurring thing, how many "DLCs" are coming, a rough idea of what to expect. This allows us as consumers to decide how best to spend our money. The negative impressions from two years ago are starting to change, and in general people are starting to warm to ESO being a good game. Please don't blow it by doing these sorts of things.

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Bislobo wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Bislobo wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Sketchy business practice at best with some clever wording there to screw all the people they think they have over a barrel with their craft bag.

Can't use crowns and have to pay for it. Yeah, so loyal customers who have been getting plus for month after month with nothing but garbage in the store to spend those crowns on get slapped in the face.

*sigh*

So glad I deleted my game. Clearly was the right choice to get out from under this bus.

Yet you still QQ in the forums "Sketchy"

I heard about morrowind and wanted to check it out. I was feeling iffy based on housing. And oh look. No surprise, it turns out to be more nonsense. So yeah, I still would read the forum. Now mostly to see what new things they are going to try to pull. Nothing sketchy about it. Now it's just me watching to see how many people in this place have like one wit of sense to know when they are being screwed. Clearly, not many. Must be the gaming addiction. Junkies pretty much will let anyone do anything to them just to get a fix. Same thing here.

You only buy the package if you want, it's not like like zos is pointing a gun at you, forcing you to buy their wares. So you only get "screwed" if you want. If you think it is worth the money, buy it, if you don't, save your money. It's really that simple.

You clearly don't know what a bait and switch is. They promised access to all future DLC as part of the way they got people to sign up for their ESO+ which was pretty lame but because of access to all DLC with some crowns and the craft bag it's useful. But now they are going out of their way to say this is not DLC. It's an 'expansion'. All DLC is an expansion, technically speaking. But they said quarterly DLC and we hadn't had quarterly DLC. So most subscribers were generous in supporting them anyway. Sadly too many probably dole out for several months at a time rather than month by month. So this means that when Morrowind comes out all those subscribers are getting screwed. Promises are broken and they made it so you don't have a solid legal claim because they are doing an end run around it.

What really gets me is that for them to be so concerned about losing money from plus players then they must have many, many subs. Else they would not mind too much knowing that people who sub will need to keep subbing. For them to do an end run in this way, they have to have more subs that we can fathom which means they have been raking in the $$$ and still haven't fixed issues with servers, still haven't really addressed the lags or problems that go on after maintenance. People probably log on for a month and sub for a year. It's like gym memberships at new year's. Only here they want to make sure that all those people who have subs not being used right now come back and give them MORE money. And that is what the problem is. It's just barely this side of legal. They have some shifty lawyers working for them. But it doesn't surprise me. Their practices of late have been looking shadier and shadier.

I would have happily paid for the DLC if it were not handled so *** poorly and triggering my shifty business practices radar. I'm not sure how it could have been handled less poorly because it is a DLC and that is shady that you can't access it for plus members who as part of their ESO + package were told they would have access. Lies. Lies. Lies. I'm so tired of the lies. The rewriting of facts, shifty double talk, con artist behavior, charging obscene amounts of crowns for things just to see how far they can go. They do this because they have a bunch of fanboy junkie gamers who will just nod and get taken for the ride. Great for the fanboys who want that. That is fine. But they think this is a good deal. They are cool with it. They see no sketchy practice going on. That is a huge problem. They are learning that it is acceptable for companies to lie to you and then do what they want. They are so submissive and pliant that they are arguing in their favor. It's like the forum is filled with a bunch of flying monkey enablers.

You clearly don't understand the basic concept of free will. You are free to buy/continue playing the game or leave and don't spend you money if you think you are being robbed. It's the mmorpg market, it's obvious they will try to make revenue for themselves. But in the end, it's up to you if you want to continue to take the bait.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

mrkaco_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

jluchau wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno do you know, will there be a crown store option to buy Morrowind?

No - Morrowind can only be purchased digitally or through a retailer. As it's not a DLC game pack but an entirely new Chapter, it will not be in the Crown Store.

Absolutely disappointing.

I believe the reason why they did this is because of the monthly 1500 crowns we get with the sub my guess.

And yet they could have easily priced it at 5-6k crowns and made a minimum of 4 months of ESO+ to offset that price. Having a physical release should never counter a digital version for your active community. It's Morrowind in 2017, not 2002.

Also you get what you pay for, you got crowns & craft bag and the 10% xp boost ontop of all that, WoW gives you nothing to sub and yet more people play WoW than Swtor, Eso, FF14, and probably most of the MMO's on the current market atm put together.

And to be fair ESO+ includes all future DLC. ZOS could have easily kept ESO a sub-only game; they didn't. I guess we are all paying for that decision now though. Still, there is absolutely no reason to pay-wall Battlegrounds or the Warden behind Morrowind.

True, but we don't know when they will add it to the list of Sub gameplay as well, Swtor did this as well when the first payable expac came out you had to wait till the next expac to come out to be able to play it without buying it if you were a sub.

And yet they have said nothing about this so it doesn't seem to be the case. I think what irks most players is that they are changing their business model yet again despite originally claiming otherwise. I mean it's bad enough we had to suffer through the loot crates and the in-game ad spam. And while Homestead is free, it still comes with several premium items in the crown store. I don't think that anyone here is against ZOS making money, we just want them to honor their promises for more than 2 years.

I'm totally down for paying for this expansion along with my sub. Morrow Wind has features that none of the previous dlc had, this is basically part 2 of ESO.

Corporate Zo$ tugging on heart strings with that Morrowind theme. But yea... can't purchase with Crown? BYEBYE you aren't getting my money $$$ All good though I'll be playing ME:A all summer and by the time im done with that game this expansion would hopefully be put on sale.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

So when you said that ESO Plus would include all future content.. What you really meant was all future content we feel like giving you? This is definitely class action lawsuit waiting to happen. You literally flat out lied to your customers.

How is it a lawsuit? It's just like Swtor / WoW where it will be available in time for those that only have a sub. It says Subs will obtain that content, but it does not say when they will.
IE: Till next dlc / expansion.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

ESO Plus was marketed that it would give subscribers access to ALL future content. It said nothing of just "DLC" which is exactly what Morrowwind is by the way. You can't just call it by another name and be like, "oh no, this is completely different than the other 6 DLC we have released already." Get real.

Yes you will gain access to the future content but if you don't purchase it they don't need to give it to you right away.

IE: Swtor / WoW have been doing for years.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

jluchau wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno do you know, will there be a crown store option to buy Morrowind?

No - Morrowind can only be purchased digitally or through a retailer. As it's not a DLC game pack but an entirely new Chapter, it will not be in the Crown Store.

so just stop with that nonsense that has absolutely no basis in reality other than "yeah but". The actual team has flat out said that it wont.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's a tacit agreement that my sub entitles me to all new content. That's what I'm paying for.

I think they're swimming in dangerous legal waters here.

ESO Plus explicitly includes access to DLC. The fact that they've slapped a different label on this expansion doesn't change what it is.

Lodge a complaint with your local consumer protection agency. Or cancel your sub for long enough to cover the cost of the expansion.

the content of it changes what it is..... you can start a toon there, you can't do that in any of the dlc.

Really? I started new toons for both Orsinium and Thieve's Guild.

gard wrote: »

thedirtypony wrote: »

I just want to know what a Chapter is and how will a Chapter figure in to ESO+ Were Gina and ZOS just using that term off the cuff meaning, a new adventure awaits players etc., or will a Chapter be some form of future product. I hope they will clarify wth that word means tomorrow.

NovaShadow wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:



Notice where it says ALL downloadable content.

(http://gamerlogic.nickchevalier.com/news/elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription-console-release-date-announced/)

The fact that they've since changed it to crown store only DLC's is simply a technicality to allow them to call future content 'expansions' and exclude them from the crown store so they can charge extra money.

I just don't understand how so many people are caught up in the hype and are overlooking it.

Somewhere at ZOS there's a business school grad absolutely ecstatic over having thought of changing a word so that subscribers pay for the DLC.

ZOS - Best to be gentle when milking your cow, else you might get kicked.

Why is it such a big deal if its just a payable expansion? The stuff you get for subbing every month already equivilates to even more than the 15$ your spending per month, imo way more than the 15$ your paying.

WoW makes you pay for every expansion if you want to gain access to them, also its a Subbed base game if you do not have the in game gold to keep up the sub per month, also ontop of that they don't give you anything for subbing and its been working for 13 years.

Crafting bag
Free access to DLC game packs(not expansions)
1500 crowns
Free costume dyeing
10% bonus to experience points gain
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
10% bonus to trait research time
10% bonus to gold acquisition
Double the furniture for housing

I think that's more than enough for $15($13 if you get a 6 month membership) so stop crying and acting like children. Plus, you can tell they've worked really hard on this expansion(it's huge and has tons of new content) and because of that, I got a 6 month membership and happily bought the Collector's Edition upgrade.

Im sorry sitting in train right now and bored - really cant help myself - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2015/01/21/your-guide-to-eso-plus-premium-membership

corrosivechains wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

jluchau wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno do you know, will there be a crown store option to buy Morrowind?

No - Morrowind can only be purchased digitally or through a retailer. As it's not a DLC game pack but an entirely new Chapter, it will not be in the Crown Store.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

gard wrote: »

thedirtypony wrote: »

I just want to know what a Chapter is and how will a Chapter figure in to ESO+ Were Gina and ZOS just using that term off the cuff meaning, a new adventure awaits players etc., or will a Chapter be some form of future product. I hope they will clarify wth that word means tomorrow.

NovaShadow wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:



Notice where it says ALL downloadable content.

(http://gamerlogic.nickchevalier.com/news/elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription-console-release-date-announced/)

The fact that they've since changed it to crown store only DLC's is simply a technicality to allow them to call future content 'expansions' and exclude them from the crown store so they can charge extra money.

I just don't understand how so many people are caught up in the hype and are overlooking it.

Somewhere at ZOS there's a business school grad absolutely ecstatic over having thought of changing a word so that subscribers pay for the DLC.

ZOS - Best to be gentle when milking your cow, else you might get kicked.

Why is it such a big deal if its just a payable expansion? The stuff you get for subbing every month already equivilates to even more than the 15$ your spending per month, imo way more than the 15$ your paying.

WoW makes you pay for every expansion if you want to gain access to them, also its a Subbed base game if you do not have the in game gold to keep up the sub per month, also ontop of that they don't give you anything for subbing and its been working for 13 years.

at this point I can't tell if your shilling for ESO or if you're shilling for WoW. "But WoW does this, but WoW does that, But WoW went to plate with a wiffle ball bat! Neiner Neiner Neiner!"

This isn't WoW. This isn't SWTOR. This isn't EA. This isn't ActiBlizz. But they're definitely starting to make those companies business practices look reasonable.

It isn't any of those other companies, but Blizzard is still around after 13 years so that has to tell you something there doing something right.

JWKe wrote: »

Corporate Zo$ tugging on heart strings with that Morrowind theme. But yea... can't purchase with Crown? BYEBYE you aren't getting my money $$$ All good though I'll be playing ME:A all summer and by the time im done with that game this expansion would hopefully be put on sale.

ME:A is going to empty your wallet too. If there is one company that is as good as ZOS at milking you, it's EA.