Morrowind...and ESO+

corrosivechains · January 2017

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Its 40$ and no sub is required... please get off it.

WoW charges 60$ per pop and a sub model.

40$ for an Elk??? Done

40$ for a new zone, class, battlegrounds, dungeons and trial?... BLASPHEMY!!!!

Sorry, but I am sure most of us spend that much a month on coffee. I am an ESO+ member since the game was released on PC.

$40 for an Elk??? Done. What are you saying? Find me one person that thinks the elk was priced fairly. Don't come in here saying that like anyone was okay with it. People aren't complaining about the price. They are complaining about ESO+ benefits.

I am comparing the two. I see lots of Elks. I didn't buy it because I think it was terrible and overpriced. But look at the market. Look at other MMO's and costs, and the sub models.

We do not even know all the details. @ZOS_GinaBruno even posted that more details were coming. All the drama queens and tin foiled hat wearing fools need to calm down and see what happens. I am hoping ESO+ subs get something. I have been one. But I am not going to sit here and freak out about it.

If you have been subbed this entire time and NEVER had to pay for a DLC. Now you finally do and its so terrible?

you kinda missed the point of why people are angry about this.

its not the fact we have to pay, but rather the fact WE have been paying and WERE promised ALL future content by subbing.

Should also point out you shouldnt even bother quoting what the sub description says on the account side of things as that was "edited" with maintenance.

We still have more information to come from Zos. That is my point. Everyone has torches and are ready to unsub and leave. Wait until you get more information. Or better yet, stop subbing for 3 months, put your 40$ aside and buy the xpac come June.

I totally understand why people are salty and angry, but we do not even have all the info and everyone is freaking out.

All that does is condone similar releases in the future. It doesn't matter if it isn't gated behind morrowind, they'll just do another area, call it a new "expansion". And that one won't be available for crowns or subscribers. Unsubbing to save for the purchase is ridiculous cause it just condones future double dipping.

Fallout 4 kinda soured me on Bethesda Game Studios, and this release is souring me on ESO/ZoS. Sucks, but oh well. Just means there'll be a vaccuum to fill for some up and coming gamestudio. Hopefully CDProject comes out with some original IP.

MasterSpatula · January 2017

Evergnar wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

I think most of the controversy could have been avoided by including an addition digital item for ESO plus members.

All Zos needed to do really was give ESO+ members a discount. 5%, 10%, 20%, anything pretty much.

I'd be happy with that. As a sub, entitled to access to quarterly DLC, I'd settle for a refund of my sub rate for every quarter with no DLC. Let's see, that's three quarters in a row, for a total of.... hmmm.... $135. Sure, knock $135 off that forty bucks for me.

Acrolas · January 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

*Pause* then *Pause some more... Uhhh... just because they are not publicly traded does not mean that do not have stock holders and investors who want to make money...

They have equity investors. Their largest, Providence, has been researching options on selling their stake.

It's not a large dividend distribution like a publicly traded company. It's about five entities that make money back on any revenue Zenimax or its subsidiaries (including both Bethesda and ZOS) earn. It's not a cozy or personal relationship. It's more akin to romancing a calculator.

Ojustaboo · January 2017

Artemiisia wrote: »

wow guys, for that price you go out at buy 2 movies and see them for 180m maybe once.

This you get 1000 hours of new playtime, the price is totally fair, and yeah im a eso+ member as well, and see no problem buying this at all.

It pays for their hard work and dedication to bring us joy and greatness into our homes

While I don't mind paying (and thought i would pay for an expansion), I do see their point. For many people they didn't mind paying their sub for a crafting bag, as they believed they were supporting the development of future content and were told by subbing, they would have access to all future content.

If Zenimax had said it gives them access to all future dlc but not expansions, that would be a different matter, but from what I'm reading, that was not the case.

Sure it also gave them crown points, but for many, they would never had bought the points if they weren't given them, and they didn't sub in order to get them (if you see what I mean)

I thought they said all future dlc, not all future content, I didn't pay much attention at the time to be honest.

Still I sub and am happy to pay for such a huge addition to the game

TheTwistedRune · January 2017

lehran wrote: »

@P3ZZL3 See this post by Gina; future DLC isn't going to be gated behind Morrowind.

But DLC for Morrowind will probably require Morrowind. Ye

lehran wrote: »

@P3ZZL3 See this post by Gina; future DLC isn't going to be gated behind Morrowind.

So any DLC released for Morrwowind will not require the Morrowind expansion/DLC? The point is if they release DLC for Morrowind they are locking it behind a paywall because how could you play it if you do not own the expansion/DLC? ESO+ states all DLC. Period. Unless they decide not to release Morrowind DLC in the crown store, in which case that's another shady move.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Typhoios wrote: »

I just have to say this to all the people I am arguing with. I have absolutly no problem paying for an expansion. I have subbed since launch. I don't expect my sub to cover all future expansions. This is not my first mmo.

My only problem is how they said ESO+ would cover all future dlc content and now they are just calling this not dlc, or at least it won't be in the crown store. 30 hours of content is not an expansion in my book. Not in an mmo. Most hardcore, or even highly active players will have this done in under a week. Before someone says it; yes I work and have a family, yet I still find a lot of time to play this game because this is my favorite hobby. I don't live in a basement, I own my own house.

I simply think a lot of people are blinded by the MORROWIND hype to see that this isn't really adding that much content. 30 hours. Battlegrounds will be great but they could have been added to any update. They should have been in the base game. PvPers have been ignored and content starved for too long. It is nice to get a new class, but this also should have been in the base game. It was there, it just got scrapped before the game launched.

They said this game wouldn't go B2P.
They said this game wouldn't have cash shops.
They said crafting would always provide the best gear.
They said ESO+ would give us access to all future content.

Surely you understand why some people are a bit upset? When they announced ESO+ they did not tell us that they would have expansions that wouldn't be covered. Many assumed ESO+ would give them access to all future content. We were wrong.

@Typhoios

I wanted to respond to your part about how they said ESO plus would work vs what's occurring.

-Sub exclusive QoL updates
-DLC
-crown store
-crown crates
-etc

I've been pointing this out for over a year and largely ppl would say....suck it up and pay like everyone else.

Funny how things change now that I sub occasionally due to the ongoing Xbox one ESO plus issues but always buy dlc and so this is hitting those who sub and perhaps now everyone can actually realize they have mislead many on ESO Plus from day one and crowns.

Maybe ppl will wake up and stop subbing all together and stop buying crowns.

WillhelmBlack · January 2017

They're doing a WoW but I don't mind as Battlegrounds is included and I've always said I'd pay extra for something like that.

sevomd69 · January 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

*Pause* then *Pause some more... Uhhh... just because they are not publicly traded does not mean that do not have stock holders and investors who want to make money...

They have equity investors. Their largest, Providence, has been researching options on selling their stake.

It's not a large dividend distribution like a publicly traded company. It's about five entities that make money back on any revenue Zenimax or its subsidiaries (including both Bethesda and ZOS) earn. It's not a cozy or personal relationship. It's more akin to romancing a calculator.

Exactly...so these equity investors could give 2 schlitz about anything other than making money off their investment... Providence isn't interested in making money? I guess they will feel all fuzzy inside for maintaining the ES lore...

Cameron_Vayle · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

jluchau wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno do you know, will there be a crown store option to buy Morrowind?

No - Morrowind can only be purchased digitally or through a retailer. As it's not a DLC game pack but an entirely new Chapter, it will not be in the Crown Store.

I know that in the grand scheme of things to large companies such as yours the loss of one monthly paying member is nothing so you will not really care that I just canceled my subscription to your game. I do find it interesting that when I canceled there was no question from your company asking me why I was doing so like so many others do.

So let me tell you why where, not that it will probably matter as I don't post much if at all in the forums and just play the game.

The reason is simple. When I was talked into the ESO+ membership by my wife she pointed out that in your description of it this line was stated:

"Access to all of ESOs downloadable content (Or DLC) game packs for the duration of your membership."

This content is downloadable content/DLC thus should be included with the subscription. I would like to point out one last thing before I leave.

The decision by your management has not just cost you my subscription, which I know is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but al the funds that I was planning on spending for one of your houses.

tspecherb14_ESO · January 2017

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

Flynch · January 2017

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

What is that distinct marker?

Hell, even ZOS were uncomfortable about calling it an Expansion in the stream.

jedtb16_ESO · January 2017

Flynch wrote: »

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

What is that distinct marker?

Hell, even ZOS were uncomfortable about calling it an Expansion in the stream.

the distinct marker?

you could play it as it is without touching the rest of the game.....

start at toon there and never leave.

DoccEff · January 2017

ZO$ keeps lying to us again and again and there are still some people defending them.

zZzleepyhead · January 2017

Typical ZOS. I don't know why anyone is surprised at this point

It was clear the game was selling out when they switched to B2P and scrapped the sub

I mean they had IC polished and ready to go for nearly a year, but held it back just so they could sell it as a DLC on console.
Mind you this is the ONLY PvP expansion this game has seen!

You suck ZOS. You frigg'n suck

Please give me better PvP already

Amadis001 · January 2017

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Expansion, DLC, what is the difference? Both includes additional content.

Simple. Expansions are not included in ESO+.

Flynch · January 2017

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

What is that distinct marker?

Hell, even ZOS were uncomfortable about calling it an Expansion in the stream.

the distinct marker?

you could play it as it is without touching the rest of the game.....

start at toon there and never leave.

Yeah but... you can do that in literally every zone (including the dlc zones lulz) now we have OneTam.

You still need to either own the base-game or purchase the base-game along with Morrowind. So i'm still really not seeing where the difference is.

edit: typo

vyndral13preub18_ESO · January 2017

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

But we dont want to be like WoW! We are a different kind of MMO!!

Turns out not so much it seems.

Celas_Dranacea · January 2017

I'm fine with paying - seems like a *** ton of work. Whatever keeps the game alive, highly doubt ZOS employees or the investors are getting ultra rich off this game.

Keep putting out inspired content ZOS and I'll support you. If it's as cool as Wrothgar it will be well worth it.

Also - if you can keep adding interesting subscriber benefits that's great too

S1ipperyJim · January 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

If ESO+ won't give access to it, it means ZOS can be sued for false advertising. It doesn't matter what ZOS calls it, it still is DLC.

ZOS define "downloadable content" in their TOS on this website as "Content that is downloaded or downloadable from any website under ZeniMax's control", this would include Morrowind, regardless of their disingenuously saying it is not DLC because it is a new 'chapter'. Since it is not standalone content - it requires the base game to be played - it is ESO DLC. It is also only about 50% larger than Orsinium in terms of content (based on 30 hrs of content vs 20 hrs).

Does this mean we can sue them for not living up to the terms of the ESO+ membership, which originally stated that it includes 'all current and future downloadable content free' for current members?

Well as with most subscription models ZOS has the right to change the terms of the subscription at any time, however they would need to have advised existing subscribers of any changes to those terms directly, not just by chancing the blurb on the sub purchase page. As far as I know people like myself who have had an active sub since it was first introduced have received no such direct notification of a change of the terms of the subscription.

To be clear, I and most others who originally retained ESO+ did so because of the access to all future DLC, the crowns and craftbag were added later as fringe benefits.

I would definitely be cancelling my sub immediately in view of the fact that morrowind is not included if not for the fact that the lack of inventory space locks me into the craft bag, which I require as a mastercrafter in all trades.

Regardless, ESO+ is VERY poor value now, we have undeniably NOT received the promised regular free DLC supposed to be included in it and ZOS seem to be attempting to draw in new players and shafting loyal original players who have been supporting the game since pre launch on PC.

Having said that, I love this game and have thrown a lot of money at it and will continue to do so for epic new content such as what the Morrowind looks like it will be!

xeNNNNN · January 2017

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Its 40$ and no sub is required... please get off it.

WoW charges 60$ per pop and a sub model.

40$ for an Elk??? Done

40$ for a new zone, class, battlegrounds, dungeons and trial?... BLASPHEMY!!!!

Sorry, but I am sure most of us spend that much a month on coffee. I am an ESO+ member since the game was released on PC.

$40 for an Elk??? Done. What are you saying? Find me one person that thinks the elk was priced fairly. Don't come in here saying that like anyone was okay with it. People aren't complaining about the price. They are complaining about ESO+ benefits.

I am comparing the two. I see lots of Elks. I didn't buy it because I think it was terrible and overpriced. But look at the market. Look at other MMO's and costs, and the sub models.

We do not even know all the details. @ZOS_GinaBruno even posted that more details were coming. All the drama queens and tin foiled hat wearing fools need to calm down and see what happens. I am hoping ESO+ subs get something. I have been one. But I am not going to sit here and freak out about it.

If you have been subbed this entire time and NEVER had to pay for a DLC. Now you finally do and its so terrible?

you kinda missed the point of why people are angry about this.

its not the fact we have to pay, but rather the fact WE have been paying and WERE promised ALL future content by subbing.

Should also point out you shouldnt even bother quoting what the sub description says on the account side of things as that was "edited" with maintenance.

We still have more information to come from Zos. That is my point. Everyone has torches and are ready to unsub and leave. Wait until you get more information. Or better yet, stop subbing for 3 months, put your 40$ aside and buy the xpac come June.

I totally understand why people are salty and angry, but we do not even have all the info and everyone is freaking out.

Humanity.

We'll always be like this or at least for a while, people are quick to anger and slow to change and easily frustrated.

I'll admit im a bit angry and frustrated but not so much because of what was said but because of the lack of information and the announcement was too brief.

But people have a right to freak out, the way everything has been presented and what they've been told since day one is now in question, in their eyes they've wasted their money to some extent and now feel betrayed, channel all that in one go and you have one heck of a firestorm of anger.

tspecherb14_ESO · January 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

But we dont want to be like WoW! We are a different kind of MMO!!

Turns out not so much it seems.

The games are very different, but it is still an MMO. What other modes of are there to pay for content? I do think a crown payment method for the xpac should have been added.

As far as markers, there amount/volume/quantity/whatever you want to call it of content is worthy of being called an expansion. ZOS can call it what they want, but it's still an expansion of content significantly more than any previous DLC.

Emencie · January 2017

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

lehran wrote: »

@P3ZZL3 See this post by Gina; future DLC isn't going to be gated behind Morrowind.

But DLC for Morrowind will probably require Morrowind. Ye

lehran wrote: »

@P3ZZL3 See this post by Gina; future DLC isn't going to be gated behind Morrowind.

So any DLC released for Morrwowind will not require the Morrowind expansion/DLC? The point is if they release DLC for Morrowind they are locking it behind a paywall because how could you play it if you do not own the expansion/DLC? ESO+ states all DLC. Period. Unless they decide not to release Morrowind DLC in the crown store, in which case that's another shady move.

Uhh...

No?

What makes you think any and every DLC from here until forever will have to do with Morrowind?
The game deals with more than just Morrowind, and the other DLCs have been all over Tamriel.

Do you think we will never ever go anywhere else ever again because an expansion came out?

Wait...
Are you really outraged because you are guessing that a made up future DLC that is not even in development yet, may require Morrowind?

In that case I'm outraged that the next Crown store costume is for orcs only, and costs 4000 crowns!

trbrelinskib14_ESO · January 2017

I have no delusions that ESO+ would allow me to have access to this. This is not DLC. It is an expansion not just DLC. Much more content than any previous DLC. It's like a WoW expansion, you have to pay for them as well. I don't see WoW players freaking out about having to pay for expansions...

Frankly, people on these forums are just rude and childish. I thought this was a mature game...? Meaning you need to be older than a child to play. 18 is a young adult. What happened to any sense of maturity here? You want great content, but you don't want to pay for it...and then throw a fit online...and be just rude to people and the company...grow up, the world doesn't revolve around you.

How are the devs supposed to stick around and create that content if everything is free? I am no capitalist... absolutely don't like capitalism... but in the current system we have in this society, people need money to live and to continue to produce things... I have no problems supporting this company as they make a great product and an enjoyable game/world. That's why I do ESO+. Will they give ESO+ subscribers a discount? I doubt it. ESO+ is for DLC and other benefits (Crown Coins, Craft bag, Experience boost, etc). I'm getting my money's worth already. I'll buy the expansion because its reasonable. The upgrade is just $40 or $60 (Definitive Edition). I can easily afford $40 or $60. It looks great and the story sounds good and I'm really looking forward to playing a Warden. I really have been wanting a nature based class since launch.

xeNNNNN · January 2017

NovaShadow wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:

Notice where it says ALL downloadable content.

(http://gamerlogic.nickchevalier.com/news/elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription-console-release-date-announced/)

The fact that they've since changed it to crown store only DLC's is simply a technicality to allow them to call future content 'expansions' and exclude them from the crown store so they can charge extra money.

I just don't understand how so many people are caught up in the hype and are overlooking it.

I did point this out earlier but i had no photographic evidence of it at the time (im also terrible at multi-tasking)

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2017

Nerouyn wrote: »

Lodge a complaint with your local consumer protection agency. Or cancel your sub for long enough to cover the cost of the expansion.

For people who have chosen ESO+ as the mean to access all content (as promised), cancelling is not really an option. On top of having to buy "Morrowind", they'd also also have to buy all previous DLCs. ESO+ means access to ALL future and also ALL PREVIOUS content.
It's not an issue if they have enough crowns left from subbing but if they don't ... they're screwed.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Screencapping this before it gets changed. Can anyone find some of the old interviews where they talk about ESO plus and the subscription model after Buy to Play?

Well guys, the purchase model is changing AGAIN>

INB4 Semantics argument of "DLC" vs "Expansion"

Wrothgar expanded the game.

Thieves and assassins guild expanded the game.

They are ALL Expansions. They are ALL DLC.

ok, aside form the semantic argument on whether something is an expansion or a DLC. I don't see the need for them to change anything. because the agreeming is exactly the same now as it was prior to the announcement. you get acess to DLC packs for the duration of your subscription. you STILL get acess to DLC packs for the duration of your subscription. Morrowind is not a game pack. its an expansion. and again, semantic arguments aside - the agreement has NOT changed. at all. so there is no need to change anything in terms.

9d488c4dd6b949416c85906c5bd7a4c3d3163632d5606a6a068e487c0f3a2d73.jpg

"All semantics aside" = I'm just going to ignore the fact that there is no difference between these terms and continue to argue that there is a difference between these two terms.

Merenwen_812 · January 2017

Flynch wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

What is that distinct marker?

Hell, even ZOS were uncomfortable about calling it an Expansion in the stream.

the distinct marker?

you could play it as it is without touching the rest of the game.....

start at toon there and never leave.

Yeah but... you can do that in literally every zone (including the dlc zones lulz) now we have OneTam.

You still need to either own the base-game or purchase the base-game along with Morrowind. So i'm still really not seeing where the difference is.

edit: typo

but you don't need the base game to play morrowind, as they stated you can buy morrowind without owning eso and play it. they also said once you beat the main storyline of morrowind you will have access to eso:one tamriel.

so it's similar to any game that has a sequel and they give you the first game free (Fractured But Whole comes to mind where I will get the Stick of Truth free with it)

lehran · January 2017

xeNNNNN wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:

Notice where it says ALL downloadable content.

(http://gamerlogic.nickchevalier.com/news/elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription-console-release-date-announced/)

The fact that they've since changed it to crown store only DLC's is simply a technicality to allow them to call future content 'expansions' and exclude them from the crown store so they can charge extra money.

I just don't understand how so many people are caught up in the hype and are overlooking it.

I did point this out earlier but i had no photographic evidence of it at the time (im also terrible at multi-tasking)

It is also sadly irrelevant. Right now the rules are that you get DLC that are on the Crown Store. Tomorrow the rules might change so that you only get the DLC access if you refer a friend to buy a sub. What the rules were a while ago has no bearing on what they are now.

ToS section 1: and (iv) related services, such as membership programs that include special benefits for members, downloading and uploading media, forums, and additional features (together with Content, Games and Software collectively referred to as "Services").

ToS section 6: ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. ... ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.

ToS section 12 B: YOU AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH ZENIMAX OR ITS LICENSORS OR RESELLERS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THESE TERMS OF SERVICE OR ANY SERVICE IS TO STOP USING OR ACCESSING THE SERVICE AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT, SUBSCRIPTION OR MEMBERSHIP.

In other words, ESO+ is a Service, they can change Services at any time for any reason without notice to you, and if you don't like it you can leave. If you want to do something more drastic than that (like you think it violates contract law or something), there's also a binding arbitration clause you get to deal with that prevents you from taking them to court.

Edit: and ToS section 11: IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, AVAILABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF A SERVICE, YOU MAY CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION OR MEMBERSHIP TO THE SERVICE. AS NOTED IN THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, WHEN YOU CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR SUBSCRIPTION OR MEMBERSHIP TO A SERVICE YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE A REFUND OF THE FEES FOR THAT SERVICE UNLESS APPLICABLE LAW SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1) REQUIRES A REFUND BE GIVEN. -- if you DO decide to leave, no refunds.

Typeous · January 2017

are we gonna get old DLC's with morrowind? i mean when we buy new expansion, do we get SotH, Thieves guild etc. too?

smacx250 · January 2017

sadownik wrote: »

Calling it a'chapter" is quite revealing isnt it? Do you really need more?

Yeah, the game is getting the motif treatment...