Morrowind...and ESO+

SunfireKnight86

probablyafk wrote: »

tl;dr I think it's reasonable to have wanted a $40 expansion pack (i.e. we all have to pay extra) to have included a full campaign with multiple maps, a new class, changes to the existing classes that provide replay value and new ways to enage with the game, some shiny new features to make existing content feel fresh, and a real feeling that the game world is moving on.

You literally described exactly what we're getting with Morrowind.

probablyafk

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

You literally described exactly what we're getting with Morrowind.

I would be extremely happy if that's the case but, right now, it doesn't look that way. 30 hours of gameplay? Orsinium was 20 hours! There has been no mention of any other single feature besides one zone, one new class, one new trial. How does that possibly compare with even the worst of the WoW expacs for content?

When I say campaign I mean multi-zone, big story, new adventures that take the on-going lore up and beyond. Not a side story. Not a little zone and it's infighting. We should be getting another 20-30% of the base game. That's what $40 should be buying - why shouldn't it?

I like this game. I'm not complaining and demanding a free expac. I am asking if we should be happy with a mediocre expac after waiting so long?

God I hope it's not crap but I'm failing to be filled with confidence right now. No one is saying what else is worth doing here?

olsborg

Im not the only one who feels like an idiot being an ESO+ member?

SunfireKnight86

probablyafk wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

You literally described exactly what we're getting with Morrowind.

There has been no mention of any other single feature besides one zone, one new class, one new trial. How does that possibly compare with even the worst of the WoW expacs for content?

And new PvP. And "other surprises" according to the website.

Exactly what WoW added in its last xpac. But okay. Sure. The sky is falling.

Paha_Vaatturi

We can rename the ESO+ to 'Crafting subscription' or 'ESO Support Club'. Only benefits for max CP players are the bag and extra housing items.

I'm not saying that the crafting bag isn't an awesome bonus for those who support the game. I'm just saying that the name will be misleading in the future.

PS. I buy my subscription in 6 month pack, not as a monthly subscription. Even if I felt that I am missing a promised content, I couldn't opt out before May.

Darkstorne

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Exactly what WoW added in its last xpac. But okay. Sure. The sky is falling.

Come on, don't pretend this is as big as WoW's expansions. There's a damn good reason it was never going to be as big as WoW's expansions are, but pretending it is doesn't look good for you. Legion had 5 new zones, and three raids (though staggered release dates for them for progression purposes).

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

Now I am glad I have not been playing for the last two months, there is no way that I will buy the expansion if I can't use my crowns for it. I was going to return this month but I think I will look for something else to play.

probablyafk

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Exactly what WoW added in its last xpac. But okay. Sure. The sky is falling.

You're patently and observably incorrect. Go have a look at the announcement page for the last expansion and you'll see the difference in feature announcement.

• New class (we get that!)
• Refresh of existing abilities for all existing classes.
• New abilities for all classes including level cap which leads to new ways of playing all existing classes
• Feature: Artifact weapons - for each class again
• Feature: Class Halls - heaps of quests and whole new types of gameplay
• Many, many, refinements of existing features including wide spread transmog, profession and social updates.
• A new CONTINENT consisting of five entire new zones (we get one)
• 9 new dungeons + 1 revamped
• 2 new raids (we get one)
• New difficulty levels for existing content in response to player feedback.
• New PVP progression system (we get that!)
• Story progression for the whole world, including major changes to the existing zones to fit in the move (right now we only know of 30 hours of story in one new zone)

I suppose it did cost $10 more though? I guess that's a point to you...

Seriously. I'm not saying it's not good to have some new content but why would anyone here settle for what we're currently being offered compared to what we see in other games? We are their potential customers, we should be asking for more. For what's fair in the market.

probablyafk

I hope they just bungled the launch, rushed it too early or something. But I kinda doubt it as we're only four and a bit months out. WoW had their announcement a year before (which I hated them for) but at least it made me excited!

Ojustaboo

NovaShadow wrote: »

Wrothgar: 20 hours
Morrowind: 30 hours

I wouldn't call that massive. Large, sure, but not massive. Seems to be a popular word with fanboys to justify their blind hype.

I THOUGHT (could be wrong) they said the main quest line was 30 hrs, not the entire content?

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

I hope this is *** because I love this game but if it isnt then Nope... nope... nope, I've payed sub for two years and got all DLC content as part of that. Cosmetics is one thing, game content is another. If I've got to pay £32 for a dlc then I'm off to play another game and it's goodbuy ESO and ESO plus.

LOL it's £40-50 Not 32.

Just had a look on the pre-order page, it's £29.99 for the digital upgrade

Mr_Apollo

Is it just me that ZOS became a bit lazy? We were promised 4 DLCs per year and all future content for FREE for all ESO+ subscribers:
Excerpt from ZOS official page regarding ESO plus

"When The Elder Scrolls® Online: Tamriel Unlimited™ launches, current subscribers won’t need to do a thing to enjoy the many benefits offered by our new premium membership: ESO Plus. Just keep playing and you will automatically become a member, allowing you to take advantage of the great perks that will enhance your in-game experience when Tamriel Unlimited arrives."
(...)
"So, what do you get as an ESO Plus member? Let’s go over the benefits:
An allotment of crowns to spend in the new in-game Crown Store based on your membership period (more below)
Access to all of ESO’s downloadable content (or DLC) game packs for the duration of your membership
A 10% bonus to XP and gold gain, crafting research, and inspiration"
(...)
"While you’re a member, you’ll enjoy faster progression thanks to the helpful buffs to XP, gold, and crafting, and you’ll be able to access any DLC game pack that’s available. If your membership ends, you’ll still be able to play ESO (and keep any items and rewards you earned playing within DLC), but you won’t be able to access DLC game pack content that you haven’t purchased separately"

Now lets see what is defined as DLC and Expansion Packs shall we?

Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game. It is distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher.

An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game or video game

I don't see much of a difference do you? And even that, lets evaluate the DLC we WERE promised shall we?

• Imperial City - A great DLC, really enjoyed it (even though it favoured PVP), interesting questline, very fun to play, and adds an area to keep playing all the time. With new currency, a new mechanic for buying items, 2 new hard dungeons, plus a new race (Imperial). Great DLC, well deserved of my money.
• Orsinium - A great DLC, really enjoyed, brought a huge ass zone, new questline that was interesting and immersive, brought fun, and hours and hours of gameplay, a SOLO TRIAL, and TWO PUBLIC DUNGEONS. Really enjoyed it, amazing one, I paid for THIS kind of DLC
• Thieves Guild - Boring, seemed a bit lazy, introducing a mechanic that doesn't really work. A very small area that can be ran in 10 minutes, with easy boss fights. A lazy story line which involves in doing a quest, doing a ton of "Teleporting "simulator (I say this cause the way to level thieves guild is do small easy missions that can be finished in 30 seconds and then teleportation back to the thieves guild place). Not a whole lot of quests, can provide with 2-3 hours of fun. And it adds a daily type of mission that is ridiculously easily and not well rewarding at all (Heists)
• Dark Brotherhood - Its...basically the same thing as Thieves Guild, they add a mechanic (Blade of Woe) which is not very used after you finish all of the quests in Dark Brotherhood. Questline was...interesting but it had potential for SO much more, I enjoyed it though, if it wasn't for the constant teleportation of back and forth (yes because you can kill your target in 30 seconds). Basically, without this teleportation, you can finish the questline in 2-3 hours. They also added the same thing Thieves Guild did...A daily mission that is ridiculously easily and not well rewarding at all (called Black Sacraments)
• Shadows of the Hist - 2 dungeons...I mean...do I have to say more?!

Its becoming to the point where us loyal subsribers (some, NOT ALL), are becoming upset as they release ADDITIONAL CONTENT, not covered by the subscription. Yes, adds a bit more, but its STILL additional content. I signed a contract that allowed me to receive additional content for free, as long as I kept paying monthly.

And yes, for those who say "Don't be cheap, just support the company and buy the damned expansion" just know, that a subscription is not cheap, and just like a few of us said, right now its reaching a point where I'm paying £135 per 9 months for something called CraftBag...its not worth it

Smokinroses

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Too bad Morrowind won't be a game pack. It's a new chapter (expansion)

READ what I'm saying...lol

It's about the DLC that will come AFTER the expansion. The T&C's explicitly state I get that content (the DLC's AFTER the expansion) - BUT - I can not play them or use them - as they are locked behind a paywall. Therefore, I am NOT get all DLC

On an additional Note - What DLC are they likely to wrk on that will apply to 1T subscribers who DO NOT buy Morrowind?

I agree 100% and I understand what you are trying to say. You make a good point there!..

The way it sounds, you are just purchasing another "ESO game" for example, like Skyrim..it's not DLC and/or expansions..In my eyes, It's just a different game they made based off ESO online world. Turning into Destiny.. lol In order to access their DLC's you have to re purchase the game plus the DLC's to game access. lol

But also, I see why people are really angry because it obviously looks like an add on...which it basically is. Since they're giving you the option to upgrade your current ESO game to Morrowind. So obviously, it is an add-on (DLC). But with that being said, that definitely comes to your question, what is the future for the ones who don't want to upgrade to Morrowind? And will Morrowind be seeing future DLC's too? Will it be played as separate games? Or as a whole, just can't access the land?

Hope this makes sense. lol

probablyafk

I don't think it's constructive to argue that ESO+ subscribers shouldn't have to pay for an expansion.

I think we'll see a lot more traction by arguing that the expansion should be of considerable enough size and scope that it's worth paying for.

M0bi

Future DLC's are free with ESO+

DLC's have around 20+hours of content

Morrowind is an EXPANSION....30+hours of game play for 40 euros?

Taking into account the premise that WoW still even has players actively and monthly supporting on a 15 year old game engine that uses tab targeting....SHAME ON those that refuse to buy the expansion because it "isnt free for ESO+". ZOS has given you MORE than your fair share of game hours for the price. And if you want better content for the future....support the creation....with money. Nice words don't make games, money makes games.

Just don't get ESO+ for 5 months and then buy the Expansion...my word.

probablyafk

M0bi wrote: »

Morrowind is an EXPANSION....300+hours of game play for 40 euros?

You mean 30+ hours game play.

Divad Zarn

Ahaha as expected 2 years ago, all those lies still have place here, I'm so happy that i left this swamp kind game year ago.

P.S. Time by time just checking it with hope that game will become for gamers interests, not ONLY for greedy company interests, but seems like only darkness here.

Ojustaboo

M0bi wrote: »

Future DLC's are free with ESO+

DLC's have around 20+hours of content

Morrowind is an EXPANSION....300+hours of game play for 40 euros?

The thing is, the way the worded it on Twitch was that Morrowind had 30 hrs (I thought they were referring to the main quest here, but could be wrong) and when you completed it, you could port back to the original ESO to do the existing 300 hrs of content.

They didn't say Morrowind had 300+ hrs of content unless I and most others missed it?

Knootewoot

MoTeets wrote: »

I'm not buying Morrowind for $40 !
I bought the $60 collectors upgrade !

Although I don't like PvP and curse @Zos, i will buy the $100 physical CE because i want that Dwemer figurine in my glass display.

Bam_Bam

300 hours??? Pretty sure it 30?

Mr_Apollo

M0bi wrote: »

Future DLC's are free with ESO+

DLC's have around 20+hours of content

Morrowind is an EXPANSION....300+hours of game play for 40 euros?

Taking into account the premise that WoW still even has players actively and monthly supporting on a 15 year old game engine that uses tab targeting....SHAME ON those that refuse to buy the expansion because it "isnt free for ESO+". ZOS has given you MORE than your fair share of game hours for the price. And if you want better content for the future....support the creation....with money. Nice words don't make games, money makes games.

Just don't get ESO+ for 5 months and then buy the Expansion...my word.

Yes, shall we do the maths then? £15 a month is definitely worth the amount of DLC they gave us. And not to pop your bubble, but 300 hours is subjective depending on how the player plays the game. The only DLCs that gave us around 20 hours of content was Orsinium and Imperial City and I enjoyed those, the rest is just lazy working. Morrowind is ADDITIONAL CONTENT, thus it should be for free for subscribers since they were promised ALL ADITIONAL CONTENT FOR FREE AS LONG AS THEY SUBSCRIBED. Shame on you for Bringing WoW. ESO is a game, WoW is another, stop comparing both of them

letsdothedungeonslow

dimensional wrote: »

Surgee wrote: »

It better be as big as they say..but looking at the leaked map, it's just a little bit bigger than Wrothgar....http://i.imgur.com/hdoC9Vi.jpg

It's actually close to double the size of Wrothgar.

Given that a LOT of the mountainous terrain will not actually be explorable, I think it's even a push to say it's much bigger at all.

ItsGlaive

probablyafk wrote: »

(taken from elsewhere)

I think this isn't about ESO+ and people demanding everything just because they subscribe. I believe it's really about value for money. If someone thinks the expansion provides enough stuff for the money being asked they will be unlikely to complain. Whether they continue to subscribe is almost a secondary issue to whether they'll buy the new expac.

So here's a look at why people my think it's not enough stuff and thus feel it's not worthy of the extra money (and hence why they *** that they should just get it for free because ESO+).

What we're getting:

• A new zone. That's incredibly uncomparable with a standard expansion in WoW. If you sold this to the WoW audience as an expansion they would laugh in your face. Lets be honest - a new zone, no matter how big, could be DLC. I think it's entirely reasonable to have expected a campaign from an expansion. For this price it seems we should be adding something as big as that. A single zone? pfft.
• A new class. This is great and it is something most people wanted, nice work!
• Some battleground tilesets and some other PvP stuff. I can't comment, not my thing.
• A single trial. This is ok but very much within the realms of the expected rather than super exciting. No one is jumping up and screaming about this anywhere on the forums I've seen. It's like, cool, a single additional thing to do at end game. From that point of view it's a big let down.

We're not getting:

• Changes to existing classes. Unlike other game expansions there's no intent here to change the existing ESO - although one suspects there'll be some small things done. But this new content is very isolated from the rest of the game. There is nothing new for my existing characters here. After I've rolled the Warden, leveled them (presumably in the new zone, so doubling up content), then what?
• Changes to existing zones. We defeated the big bad guy and so we'd hope the world would change and could let us move on to bigger and better things. But again, this expac is isolated from the main story, or it continues it into it's own lands without no impact on the rest of the game.
• New Features. Because of the DLC/ESO+ relationship it seems the developers are unable to roll features into the new expansion. So there's no equivilent of the flying mount, or special ways to interact with existing content. There's nothing that adds shine to what we've already been doing. I would hope they'd just roll this stuff out anyway, give it to existing subscribers, and make the game better while they're adding the expac. Housing is an example of the compromise we end up with - it's delivered to the main game users to appese ESO+ subscribers but it also represents a half-solution. If the expansion had features it bought to the main game as well as it's own little island I think it'd bring more people back, more people in, and add to those who buy the expac.

The problem with this expansion as it's being sold to us now is that it ticks a couple of important boxes but squanders so many other oppotunities. I fail to see how anyone could compare it justifiably to other products on the market and argue successfully that it's a comparable price for the content delivered. Show me how this compares with a WoW expansion cost for feature.

We might still buy it. We might still like it. But those who want to point out the flaws are quite right in doing so. The rest of us are probably just chumps. Until something better comes along anyway.

One assumes that won't take too long since 30 hours after getting the expansion many of us will have done everything there is for us to do. There is no replay value here.

You've made some good points here (wherever they came from ). My main concern I think is size when compared to Wrothgar. As you say, a single map isn't typically considered an expansion, but then is it going to be a single map? We already know they chop zones up (like Skyrim was), could it be three zones across the region?

Rather than a new class, I'd have liked to have seen them do away with static classes altogether and add in a warden skill line or two instead.

In terms of new features - you're right here too of course, but we could easily consider the incoming housing update. They could've packaged that with this and no one would've though it out of place, but they didn't, they delivered it as a free base game update.

I'd like to think there'll be 100+ hours of playable PVE content in this, but I'm biased for my own interests of course

probablyafk

Xabien wrote: »

I'd like to think there'll be 100+ hours of playable PVE content in this, but I'm biased for my own interests of course

You know I think all your points (and the positive take) is valid. I look over at the thread with the screenshots and I get excited too.

But I think ZOS need to be held accountable here and need to understand that if they want subscribers they promise content too and to charge for new content then they need to offer a comparable product to what's happening elsewhere in the market.

I would be happy to be wrong. My only argument to keep arguing (hah) is that it applies pressure on ZOS to really examine if what they're offering is going to keep us involved. I think they need some public backlash, as well as a bunch of thanks and enthusiasm.

In the end we'll get this thing, expac/dlc whatever, and lots of us will pay for it. And if it doesn't do enough then that will likely be the beginning of the end because, at that point, EOS has begun to commit to a cycle of expansions. There's more at stake here than most people realise I believe. It won't happen straight away but ... well, if the expansion doesn't meet expectations then I think I know what's going to happen to subscription numbers, and it's not pretty.

letsdothedungeonslow

Don't wanna go TOO off topic, but one thing that no one seems to have mentioned yet is that this is essentially repeated territory for those of us who have paid for and played every game since TES III: Morrowind.

I had hoped that the gaps on the map such as Elsweyr and Summerset would one day be unlocked. Now you've got a slightly bigger continuation of the Stonefalls landscape, plus a dungeon and a pet-dependent class.

This looks to be a massive disappointment AS WELL AS a massive ripoff.

probablyafk

And that warden skill line suggestion is really interesting. I like the idea of a new class but wouldn't some new actual real combat effective skill lines have been such a cool thing to introduce? Like, take the chance to rebalance things, really test them and try some great new stuff. That would freshen things up.

I'd just love something that makes me wanna jump on my existing characters and try something new out. Fresh!

M0bi

probablyafk wrote: »

M0bi wrote: »

Morrowind is an EXPANSION....300+hours of game play for 40 euros?

You mean 30+ hours game play.

Yep double tapped that Zero...editted original
It's 300+ hours of gameplay of just non-ESO+ base game content. My point still stands.

probablyafk

M0bi wrote: »

Yep double tapped that Zero...editted original
It's 300+ hours of gameplay of just non-ESO+ base game content. My point still stands.

I've stated before, I don't think the argument that we should receive a free expansion is very constructive.

However do you agree that right now this expansion appears to be significantly down on content for other comparable MMOs that have both subscription and expansion fees?

Really that's the issue here. Go to WoW and see what you get in an expansion. It's huge. I don't think we need that much, and a lot of it is filler. But 30+ hours of content is not significantly different from a DLC, and hugely underwhelming compared to a continent, 10 dungeons, two raids and multiple new systems of play.

We're only saying that if you want us to pay more for something, shouldn't you cough up some real big juicy enticements? Something that sits pretty close and competitive with the market?

Loc2262

sadownik wrote: »

60-80 $ for 300 + h of content = 40-80 $ for 30 h content. Got it, indeed no real argument here.

Yes, that's exactly what makes me slightly peeved off too. Price vs. content is quite disproportionate.

I'd be willing to pay 15 to maybe 20$ for the DLC (I'm going to keep calling it that, because that's what it technically is). But 40$, almost the price for a full AAA game, for something that maybe has 10% of the content of base ESO? Someone said, and I agree, "get real".

I don't really count things like the new class (which apparently had been planned to be in the base game anyway) or the arenas (which is comparable in effort to "housing + dueling", two things all players get for free) towards calculating the justified price here.

Also, please stop using "WoW does that, SWTOR does that, every MMO does that" as justification. Just because "everybody does it", does that make a bad thing good? What about all the times when people claimed that ESO is "so much better than WOW"? Does that only apply when it's convenient?

negbert

If Morrowind was a dlc then I would get locked out from my Warden characters if my sub lapsed. That just wouldn't work.

RedTalon

luu

negbert wrote: »

If Morrowind was a dlc then I would get locked out from my Warden characters if my sub lapsed. That just wouldn't work.

You rise above the none sense and came to realize a truth!