Morrowind...and ESO+

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Here guys I fixed the graphic and added the appropriate disclaimer.

radiostar

Add the crafting bag to the expansion

notimetocare

NovaShadow wrote: »

I was hyped, never played Morrowind so I was excited to see what it was about. I liked the trailer and everything they mentioned in the stream, especially the Warden class.

They didn't mention ESO+ in the live stream so I came here to see if there was an FAQ anywhere only to find out I've been supporting the game via a sub for the past 3 ish years on the promise I'd have access to ALL (yes all, that was the ORIGINAL - I see they've since changed the wording to crown store only - promise) new content and yet, this time they're calling Morrowind an 'expansion' not a 'dlc' (yet in my opinion it's practically the same size as Wrothgar and that was FREE with a sub).

This is what is called BAIT AND SWITCH. You promise one thing yet deliver another.

My sub is cancelled, I have no interest in housing anymore. What interest I had in Morrowind is now gone.

All I view it as now is a cash grab from Morrowind fanboys. Release it on the anniversary for extra nostalgia and you can guarantee those fanboys will look past the utter shadiness this 'expansion' is and throw their cash at ZOS.

I feel sorry for every one of you.

Bye, nobody will miss you.

Really, if you unsub and ignore an expansion because the company needs to FUND your game then you will not be missed.

NovaShadow wrote: »

I was hyped, never played Morrowind so I was excited to see what it was about. I liked the trailer and everything they mentioned in the stream, especially the Warden class.

They didn't mention ESO+ in the live stream so I came here to see if there was an FAQ anywhere only to find out I've been supporting the game via a sub for the past 3 ish years on the promise I'd have access to ALL (yes all, that was the ORIGINAL - I see they've since changed the wording to crown store only - promise) new content and yet, this time they're calling Morrowind an 'expansion' not a 'dlc' (yet in my opinion it's practically the same size as Wrothgar and that was FREE with a sub).

This is what is called BAIT AND SWITCH. You promise one thing yet deliver another.

My sub is cancelled, I have no interest in housing anymore. What interest I had in Morrowind is now gone.

All I view it as now is a cash grab from Morrowind fanboys. Release it on the anniversary for extra nostalgia and you can guarantee those fanboys will look past the utter shadiness this 'expansion' is and throw their cash at ZOS.

I feel sorry for every one of you.

Really, the people that call this shady must have never played an MMO. Intelligent people should have little issue with this. This isnt small content, it is massive.

Hiero_Glyph

leothedino wrote: »

Why are people so blown away by this and feeling so damned self entitled? It's a proper expansion... or "chapter" as they are enforcing it. Like any MMO out there, you pay for those expansions AND usually sub too, without complaint.

This is no different, you sub and get plenty of content thrown in with it, the time an expansion level update comes out, a new class included, and people are losing their minds when it's done annually in other MMOs all the time.

Because ZOS hasn't used this type of business model in over 2 years. Just because other MMOs do it doesn't matter in this case.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

JWKe wrote: »

Corporate Zo$ tugging on heart strings with that Morrowind theme. But yea... can't purchase with Crown? BYEBYE you aren't getting my money $$$ All good though I'll be playing ME:A all summer and by the time im done with that game this expansion would hopefully be put on sale.

ME:A is going to empty your wallet too. If there is one company that is as good as ZOS at milking you, it's EA.

EA + Bioware worst company that milks you for every cent they can, but people still go with it ha.

And yet ME3 had multiplayer that had several DLCs that didn't cost the player anything beyond the cost of the base game. Also, most of the ME storyline DLC is well-crafted and enjoyable. I honestly have no complaints with the ME franchise other than the ending. The fact that the multiplayer game mode was one of the most enjoyable and well-supported experiences on the market was just a bonus. Seriously, ME is the saving grace of EA+Bioware so why try to knock it? It would be like hating on Skyrim for what happens in ESO.

Eshelmen

I'm all for it. It's not about liking the change or not, it's about if you're going to join the rest of us, or sit back and whimper while we're enjoying it. Well? $40, it's onnnnllyyy $40. You know you want it, and you know you'll cave. You got my money Zeni! Happy to see an announcement like this!

mwd419_ESO

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

Eshelmen

mwd419_ESO wrote: »

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

That's a lot of effort to throw in to something you can so easily quit. We all know you're not quitting. And for the record, what did you all think? That ESO Gold was going to include all future DLCS too? Give me a break.

sevomd69

mwd419_ESO wrote: »

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

Why announce you're leaving at all? Just leave ... no fanfare... its almost like the guys who do the fake fighting thing... just hoping for people to hold them back...

sadownik

sevomd69 wrote: »

mwd419_ESO wrote: »

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

Why announce you're leaving at all? Just leave ... no fanfare... its almost like the guys who do the fake fighting thing... just hoping for people to hold them back...

Dont worry baby ZOS will love you long time if you pay the fair price*

* definition may change.

sevomd69

sadownik wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

mwd419_ESO wrote: »

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

Why announce you're leaving at all? Just leave ... no fanfare... its almost like the guys who do the fake fighting thing... just hoping for people to hold them back...

Dont worry baby ZOS will love you long time if you pay the fair price*

* definition may change.

?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

JWKe wrote: »

Corporate Zo$ tugging on heart strings with that Morrowind theme. But yea... can't purchase with Crown? BYEBYE you aren't getting my money $$$ All good though I'll be playing ME:A all summer and by the time im done with that game this expansion would hopefully be put on sale.

ME:A is going to empty your wallet too. If there is one company that is as good as ZOS at milking you, it's EA.

EA + Bioware worst company that milks you for every cent they can, but people still go with it ha.

*throws money at ME:A*. Take it! Take it all! At least I know a couple months down the road I will kick me ME addiction and be able to function again. ESO shows no signs of letting go of the teat.

sadownik

sevomd69 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

mwd419_ESO wrote: »

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

Why announce you're leaving at all? Just leave ... no fanfare... its almost like the guys who do the fake fighting thing... just hoping for people to hold them back...

Dont worry baby ZOS will love you long time if you pay the fair price*

* definition may change.

?

Oh you just seem awfully gloomy. And i saw with my own 2 eyes how you, using nothing but your sharp wit and fingers won at least 3 epic battles in this thread alone! Your future is surly bright!

NovaShadow

notimetocare wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

I was hyped, never played Morrowind so I was excited to see what it was about. I liked the trailer and everything they mentioned in the stream, especially the Warden class.

They didn't mention ESO+ in the live stream so I came here to see if there was an FAQ anywhere only to find out I've been supporting the game via a sub for the past 3 ish years on the promise I'd have access to ALL (yes all, that was the ORIGINAL - I see they've since changed the wording to crown store only - promise) new content and yet, this time they're calling Morrowind an 'expansion' not a 'dlc' (yet in my opinion it's practically the same size as Wrothgar and that was FREE with a sub).

This is what is called BAIT AND SWITCH. You promise one thing yet deliver another.

My sub is cancelled, I have no interest in housing anymore. What interest I had in Morrowind is now gone.

All I view it as now is a cash grab from Morrowind fanboys. Release it on the anniversary for extra nostalgia and you can guarantee those fanboys will look past the utter shadiness this 'expansion' is and throw their cash at ZOS.

I feel sorry for every one of you.

Bye, nobody will miss you.

Really, if you unsub and ignore an expansion because the company needs to FUND your game then you will not be missed.

NovaShadow wrote: »

I was hyped, never played Morrowind so I was excited to see what it was about. I liked the trailer and everything they mentioned in the stream, especially the Warden class.

They didn't mention ESO+ in the live stream so I came here to see if there was an FAQ anywhere only to find out I've been supporting the game via a sub for the past 3 ish years on the promise I'd have access to ALL (yes all, that was the ORIGINAL - I see they've since changed the wording to crown store only - promise) new content and yet, this time they're calling Morrowind an 'expansion' not a 'dlc' (yet in my opinion it's practically the same size as Wrothgar and that was FREE with a sub).

This is what is called BAIT AND SWITCH. You promise one thing yet deliver another.

My sub is cancelled, I have no interest in housing anymore. What interest I had in Morrowind is now gone.

All I view it as now is a cash grab from Morrowind fanboys. Release it on the anniversary for extra nostalgia and you can guarantee those fanboys will look past the utter shadiness this 'expansion' is and throw their cash at ZOS.

I feel sorry for every one of you.

Really, the people that call this shady must have never played an MMO. Intelligent people should have little issue with this. This isnt small content, it is massive.

I didn't realise we knew each other personally and you were aware of every single person I know in game, who I talk to, the guilds I'm involved in and who would miss me if I were to leave for good.

My sub has actually lapsed due to work if you really really must know and given the announcement today I don't see the point in renewing it any time soon as ZOS has now changed their position on what content I can and cannot access via subscribing.

I'm sorry, I must've missed the part where ZOS earns money from Subs, Crowns, Base Game purchases & Gold Edition purchases. No, they cannot possibly have any other source of income.

Grow up. You say an intelligent person should have little issue with it. Clearly you haven't read a single thing anyone with a legitimate complaint has said.

Its NOT about the money, its about the deception/lies/promises clearly displayed/advertised/repeated that have been blatantly forgotten about/rewritten/ignored all for more money.

An intelligent person not blinded by shiny collectables that bring back nostalgia can see this for what it is. It is shady. It is deceptive. It feels like a betrayal for those that paid their subscription under the belief that it'd grant them access to ALL future content as was SPECIFIED. Being lied to sucks, even more so when it's done in such a sneaky/underhanded manor.

Wrothgar: 20 hours
Morrowind: 30 hours

I wouldn't call that massive. Large, sure, but not massive. Seems to be a popular word with fanboys to justify their blind hype.

DaveMoeDee

jimshrum3b14_ESO wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

rynth wrote: »

lol have none of you played an MMO before? Lol you act this is first time that sub's have had to purchase an expansion for an MMO. Get over yourselves we as sub's get all dlc for free in a way, we get bag to hold all our resources, we get the 10 percent xp boost, etc.

This is an expansion not a DLC there is a big difference

Nope this is the first for me. Doesn't mean I don't feel *** on. 2 years is a long time to play one game and many have been playing for much longer. I love ESO but I don't like ZOS. WE PAY FOR THIS GAME. I think we should all sack ZOS and start taking interviews for a better developer LoL. Afterall what have they done but expand on the genius of Bethesda's elder scrolls? Theyre in it for the money. Not the lore or the gaming experience IMO. Just the money, and they're preying on the best of us. The Elder scrolls fanatics who are desperately trying to keep this game alive.

Of course they're in it for the money... if they weren't than there would be no game and their stock holders would find people who would be in it for money...
People like to romanticize video games, but if they weren't making any money, there would be no game... Bethesda and ZOS or any company for that matter isn't in the video game business for the lore... if they aren't making money trust me ESO would no longer be an option so this would solve a lot of the QQing, since that game would cease to exist

If they're getting as much money out of me as they are everyone else then it's blatant greed and disrespect to loyal customers. I've been with my mobile phone company for years and I get a better deal every year for my loyalty. What does ESO do for ESO+ loyalists? Very little content for months and then slapped in the face with content we have to pay for. It's not on.

What ESO should have done would have been to offer the expansion to ESO+ members at a reduced rate. That might prevent ESO+ members from canceling and using the money saved to buy the expansion, right? I canceled my subscription last year because the wording of what the DLC was came off too much like I was about to get ripped off (gut feeling). I have no problems paying for the DLC's that I want and I have saved hundreds of dollars so far.

The reduced rate idea is pointless. Continuing the sub already costs more than the entire expansion.

Look, the game is excellent. Most pissed of players will continue to play. Most will buy the expansion. But they will never sub again because they can't trust ZOS after ZOS planned to take their sub payments for 3 quarters/9 months without providing them a single crown store DLC.

Many players have a lot of money. They can afford to buy the sub and every crown store item if they want. But if you treat them like a cash cow and start strong-arming them this way, they will shut down to milk supply to a trickle. Giving money to ZOS will no longer feel good to them, even though they enjoy the game, because they were loyal and then stabbed in the back.

Why did this happen? Because ZOS misrepresented themselves and ESO+. They claimed plans of quarterly DLC that ESO+ members would have access to. Yet, when ZOS reneged and didn't release new crown store DLC 2016 Q4 and 2017 Q1, players continued to sub. Now, after their loyalty, they are told that even though there is finally new paid content in Q2 after 2 quarters with none, you won't get access with your sub and get no crown store DLC yet again. Sure, we have something we could give you, but we won't because we want to you spend again on top of your sub that got you nothing.

Still a great game. Still great looking DLC. But sketchy treatment of their most loyal customers and that will be remembered.

sevomd69

sadownik wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

mwd419_ESO wrote: »

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

Why announce you're leaving at all? Just leave ... no fanfare... its almost like the guys who do the fake fighting thing... just hoping for people to hold them back...

Dont worry baby ZOS will love you long time if you pay the fair price*

* definition may change.

?

Oh you just seem awfully gloomy. And i saw with my own 2 eyes how you, using nothing but your sharp wit and fingers won at least 3 epic battles in this thread alone! Your future is surly bright!

I actually thought I only won 2 but yeah... my future is definitely surely bright...

DaveMoeDee

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

It's all a matter of perception. Morrowind is essentially going to cost me 5500 Crowns, and I would have paid that in the Crown Store. This makes it really hard to get worked up about them doing a paid Chapter/Expansion instead of a DLC. Believe me, I went into this whole thing primed to get worked up. I was expecting bad news, which some of the rest of you got, even if I didn't.

In the end, I got a cash-only upgrade to the game that includes a large new zone, and new class. It was not a hard decision to make, given the time and money I already have in the game. I was expecting much worse.

It will cost you zero crowns and $40 dollars.

Why try to find ways to obfuscate tracking your spending?

As far as crowns go, you have no idea how many crown sales there might be in the next few months. I wouldn't be surprised to see another $24 for 5500 sale when they launch all the house stuff.

DaveMoeDee

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

And to think, my guildees used to make fun of me for not subbing. Now they have to pay out $40 just like me, and I've saved a bunch of money that they wasted on some Crowns that they can only use to buy furniture for their dollhouses.

WHO'S LAUGHING NOW, HATERS?

Why would they laugh, they get free stuff for subbing every month 1500 crowns which is already 15$, craft bag (most people would sub just for this a month), 10% xp, and access to previous dlcs. They get what they paid for and should not ask for anything else tbh, WoW has more players than the majority of the MMO's on the current market put together, and it works.

Also WoW gives you nothing for subbing, just the access to play the game, also have to pay for the Expansions as well.

WoW never changed their revenue model.

ESO went from:

- Subscription model (which they promised they would never abandon)
- B2P model with optional sub (which they promised would include all future content)
- Expansion pack model

Expansion pack model with $15/month crafting bags.

SunfireKnight86

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

William_21

If an MMO company is charging you $40 for an expansion, USUALLY it means the content you are going to get is substantial compared to the previously released DLCs.

Whether $40 is cheap or expensive differs from person to person ... but I can burn $40 for a few hours of entertainment IRL.

GW2's first expansion cost $50 at launch so ... (the players complained a lot at first too)

My best advice though is that never pre-order any digital content; wait and see.

corrosivechains

Eshelmen wrote: »

mwd419_ESO wrote: »

Don't get access to it with ESO+, so not interested in buying it, nor am I interested in re-subscribing like I planned once the housing patch hit. It doesn't matter if they say it's an "expansion." It's no different than DLC, and ESO+ was supposed to include ALL DLC.

You'd think between selling motifs for 6000 crowns, , adding lottery boxes, selling a *** elk mount for 4500 crowns, and selling in-game houses for 10,000 crowns that they'd be able to afford keeping their promises in regards to the ESO+ subscription.

Lol, apparently not. Bye, Zenimax. Taking my money elsewhere.

But hey, thanks for releasing this information before I bothered to start playing again. Now I know better.

That's a lot of effort to throw in to something you can so easily quit. We all know you're not quitting. And for the record, what did you all think? That ESO Gold was going to include all future DLCS too? Give me a break.

Again the issue isn't the price. It's that we can't buy it with crowns, which we paid for. But continue to try and misconstrue the situation. Maybe someday Senpai ZOS will notice you and give you a thank you letter in game with some attached provisioning fish.

MLGProPlayer

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

And to think, my guildees used to make fun of me for not subbing. Now they have to pay out $40 just like me, and I've saved a bunch of money that they wasted on some Crowns that they can only use to buy furniture for their dollhouses.

WHO'S LAUGHING NOW, HATERS?

Why would they laugh, they get free stuff for subbing every month 1500 crowns which is already 15$, craft bag (most people would sub just for this a month), 10% xp, and access to previous dlcs. They get what they paid for and should not ask for anything else tbh, WoW has more players than the majority of the MMO's on the current market put together, and it works.

Also WoW gives you nothing for subbing, just the access to play the game, also have to pay for the Expansions as well.

WoW never changed their revenue model.

ESO went from:

- Subscription model (which they promised they would never abandon)
- B2P model with optional sub (which they promised would include all future content)
- Expansion pack model

Expansion pack model with $15/month crafting bags.

What?

MLGProPlayer

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

Rescaling the entire game is a big project, but not even close to the scale of an actual DLC zone.

Housing also took a bit of work, but deep down, it's just a recycling of existing game assets. There is not one original asset in that update.

DaveMoeDee

Bislobo wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Bislobo wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Bislobo wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Sketchy business practice at best with some clever wording there to screw all the people they think they have over a barrel with their craft bag.

Can't use crowns and have to pay for it. Yeah, so loyal customers who have been getting plus for month after month with nothing but garbage in the store to spend those crowns on get slapped in the face.

*sigh*

So glad I deleted my game. Clearly was the right choice to get out from under this bus.

Yet you still QQ in the forums "Sketchy"

I heard about morrowind and wanted to check it out. I was feeling iffy based on housing. And oh look. No surprise, it turns out to be more nonsense. So yeah, I still would read the forum. Now mostly to see what new things they are going to try to pull. Nothing sketchy about it. Now it's just me watching to see how many people in this place have like one wit of sense to know when they are being screwed. Clearly, not many. Must be the gaming addiction. Junkies pretty much will let anyone do anything to them just to get a fix. Same thing here.

You only buy the package if you want, it's not like like zos is pointing a gun at you, forcing you to buy their wares. So you only get "screwed" if you want. If you think it is worth the money, buy it, if you don't, save your money. It's really that simple.

You clearly don't know what a bait and switch is. They promised access to all future DLC as part of the way they got people to sign up for their ESO+ which was pretty lame but because of access to all DLC with some crowns and the craft bag it's useful. But now they are going out of their way to say this is not DLC. It's an 'expansion'. All DLC is an expansion, technically speaking. But they said quarterly DLC and we hadn't had quarterly DLC. So most subscribers were generous in supporting them anyway. Sadly too many probably dole out for several months at a time rather than month by month. So this means that when Morrowind comes out all those subscribers are getting screwed. Promises are broken and they made it so you don't have a solid legal claim because they are doing an end run around it.

What really gets me is that for them to be so concerned about losing money from plus players then they must have many, many subs. Else they would not mind too much knowing that people who sub will need to keep subbing. For them to do an end run in this way, they have to have more subs that we can fathom which means they have been raking in the $$$ and still haven't fixed issues with servers, still haven't really addressed the lags or problems that go on after maintenance. People probably log on for a month and sub for a year. It's like gym memberships at new year's. Only here they want to make sure that all those people who have subs not being used right now come back and give them MORE money. And that is what the problem is. It's just barely this side of legal. They have some shifty lawyers working for them. But it doesn't surprise me. Their practices of late have been looking shadier and shadier.

I would have happily paid for the DLC if it were not handled so *** poorly and triggering my shifty business practices radar. I'm not sure how it could have been handled less poorly because it is a DLC and that is shady that you can't access it for plus members who as part of their ESO + package were told they would have access. Lies. Lies. Lies. I'm so tired of the lies. The rewriting of facts, shifty double talk, con artist behavior, charging obscene amounts of crowns for things just to see how far they can go. They do this because they have a bunch of fanboy junkie gamers who will just nod and get taken for the ride. Great for the fanboys who want that. That is fine. But they think this is a good deal. They are cool with it. They see no sketchy practice going on. That is a huge problem. They are learning that it is acceptable for companies to lie to you and then do what they want. They are so submissive and pliant that they are arguing in their favor. It's like the forum is filled with a bunch of flying monkey enablers.

You clearly don't understand the basic concept of free will. You are free to buy/continue playing the game or leave and don't spend you money if you think you are being robbed. It's the mmorpg market, it's obvious they will try to make revenue for themselves. But in the end, it's up to you if you want to continue to take the bait.

In transactions like this, information is not the same between consumers and a publisher like ZOS. They know their plans. We can't. They set out expectations by promising things, but they try to do it in a way where they can legally get away with not doing what they have implied. They rely on it being a lot of work and expensive to sue or do a class action lawsuit. They rely on their content being so good that they can get away with some unethical treatment. I never would have said that last sentence about ZOS before today.

When they put out the message that people with a sub will have access to the full game with their sub, people take that at face value because they don't know that down the road, ZOS will play word games as a bait and switch. When ZOS fails to deliver paid DLC in Q4 2016, subbers give them a pass because they like the changes to the base game. When ZOS fails to deliver paid DLC in Q1 2017, subbers again give them a pass despite going half a year without getting anything except crafting bags for their sub. Eventually, they figure, ZOS will deliver us the DLC we are waiting for. Then, this morning, they announce that new content and it sounds glorious. But they play word games calling it various things and decide that instead of fulfilling the expectations they set for subs of quarterly paid DLC drops, they are going to make subbers pay additional.

This isn't a question of free will. It is a question of unethical marketing by ZOS. It is good to criticize it. It is even better to cancel subs, which were ripoffs anyway. And it is important to let ZOS know the reason for ending a sub.

But the Vvardenfell DLC looks great, so we will all play it regardless! Hopefully ZOS has a lot of DLC in the pipeline or a lot of housing whales because subs will likely never reach the same levels.

SunfireKnight86

William_21 wrote: »

If an MMO company is charging you $40, USUALLY it means the content you are going to get is substantial compared to the previously released DLCs.

Whether $40 is cheap or expensive differs from person to person ... but I can burn $40 for a few hours of entertainment IRL.

GW2's first expansion cost $50 at launch so ... (the players complained a lot at first too)

My best advice though is that never pre-order any digital content; wait and see.

Hear, hear. Agreed in full. I can go to dinner and a movie with my wife and spend twice that on a nice evening without breaking a sweat. That lasts me about four hours, and I consider it money well spent.

I'll get at least a month of enjoyment out of that expansion. Hell, I got a week out of just questing in Wrothgar, and the landmass of Vardenfel is twice as big with about four times as many cities. We also get a new class, new gameplay activities, new dungeons, new trials, and I bet new skill lines and NPC guilds. I have no doubt it'll have 75-100+ hours of content. I consider that money well spent as well. Hell, that's a good deal for the amount of time we'll get out of it.

ADDENDUM: And we're STILL getting quarterly updates too. Icing. On. The. Cake.

This must be everyone's first MMO if the price of a full expansion is such a *** shock.

SunfireKnight86

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

Rescaling the entire game is a big project, but not even close to the scale of an actual DLC zone.

Housing also took a bit of work, but deep down, it's just a recycling of existing game assets. There is not one original asset in that update.

I'm sure you know that from your years of multi-million dollar MMO development.

They spent more on that trailer for Morrowind than you'll make in the next few decades. You have no idea what you're talking about.

alexkdd99

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

Lol who said anything about free? Maybe you should grow up.

You mean people are getting there subs for free? For some reason I doubt that. So don't say people are asking for anything for free. Paying every month is not free.

MLGProPlayer

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

Rescaling the entire game is a big project, but not even close to the scale of an actual DLC zone.

Housing also took a bit of work, but deep down, it's just a recycling of existing game assets. There is not one original asset in that update.

I'm sure you know that from your years of multi-million dollar MMO development.

They spent more on that trailer for Morrowind than you'll make in the next few decades. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You didn't respond to my argument. Try again.

SunfireKnight86

You vomited words at me. If you're trying to make a point, try again.

MLGProPlayer

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

This must be everyone's first MMO if the price of a full expansion is such a *** shock.

You're using a strawman argument.

The price isn't a shock. The change in revenue model is.

- First the game used a subscription model (which ZOS said would never change, until it changed)
- Then they moved to a B2P model with an optional sub (which ZOS promised would include all future content, until it didn't anymore)
- Now they've moved to an expansion pack model

shadoza

Leogon wrote: »

Crafting bag
Free access to DLC game packs(not expansions)
1500 crowns
Free costume dyeing
10% bonus to experience points gain
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
10% bonus to trait research time
10% bonus to gold acquisition
Double the furniture for housing

I think that's more than enough for $15($13 if you get a 6 month membership) so stop crying and acting like children. Plus, you can tell they've worked really hard on this expansion(it's huge and has tons of new content) and because of that, I got a 6 month membership and happily bought the Collector's Edition upgrade.

• The craft bag is nice. I managed fine before it was added.
• 1500 crowns per month and I have only crown crates to spend them on. For me, not a good reason to keep a sub.
• Free access to DLC is okay. A couple I would have purchased, the balance I would have left go by.
• Costume dye is a good thing, but it doesn't change the game play
• 10% bonuses were great until the level-balance happened with Tamriel Unlimited. After that, the bonuses caused my characters to over run the dropped loot rates leaving them will little to work with when it game to upgrading the gear. Didn't have enough mats and didn't have enough experience in the crafting skills to upgrade them.
• Double the items in housing only matters if one can afford the housing. Some players cannot. I will have to purchase mine with crowns because I do not have the time to generate the amount of gold it will take. My characters do not earn enough gold to worry about reaching the item max.

I have spent $180.00 a year on a subscription. I could have purchased all the DLC I was interested in as well as a fun amount of crown crates and still had some funds left over. I am reconsidering at this time. The only thing the sub provided that I really wanted was the two guild DLC. I purchased them with crowns this day so now I can drop the sub without regrets.