Morrowind...and ESO+

Cpt_Teemo

shadoza wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

Crafting bag
Free access to DLC game packs(not expansions)
1500 crowns
Free costume dyeing
10% bonus to experience points gain
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
10% bonus to trait research time
10% bonus to gold acquisition
Double the furniture for housing

I think that's more than enough for $15($13 if you get a 6 month membership) so stop crying and acting like children. Plus, you can tell they've worked really hard on this expansion(it's huge and has tons of new content) and because of that, I got a 6 month membership and happily bought the Collector's Edition upgrade.

• The craft bag is nice. I managed fine before it was added.
• 1500 crowns per month and I have only crown crates to spend them on. For me, not a good reason to keep a sub.
• Free access to DLC is okay. A couple I would have purchased, the balance I would have left go by.
• Costume dye is a good thing, but it doesn't change the game play
• 10% bonuses were great until the level-balance happened with Tamriel Unlimited. After that, the bonuses caused my characters to over run the dropped loot rates leaving them will little to work with when it game to upgrading the gear. Didn't have enough mats and didn't have enough experience in the crafting skills to upgrade them.
• Double the items in housing only matters if one can afford the housing. Some players cannot. I will have to purchase mine with crowns because I do not have the time to generate the amount of gold it will take. My characters do not earn enough gold to worry about reaching the item max.

I have spent $180.00 a year on a subscription. I could have purchased all the DLC I was interested in as well as a fun amount of crown crates and still had some funds left over. I am reconsidering at this time. The only thing the sub provided that I really wanted was the two guild DLC. I purchased them with crowns this day so now I can drop the sub without regrets.

Don't forget housing next week for the crowns if you hate gambling

corrosivechains

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

William_21 wrote: »

If an MMO company is charging you $40, USUALLY it means the content you are going to get is substantial compared to the previously released DLCs.

Whether $40 is cheap or expensive differs from person to person ... but I can burn $40 for a few hours of entertainment IRL.

GW2's first expansion cost $50 at launch so ... (the players complained a lot at first too)

My best advice though is that never pre-order any digital content; wait and see.

Hear, hear. Agreed in full. I can go to dinner and a movie with my wife and spend twice that on a nice evening without breaking a sweat. That lasts me about four hours, and I consider it money well spent.

I'll get at least a month of enjoyment out of that expansion. Hell, I got a week out of just questing in Wrothgar, and the landmass of Vardenfel is twice as big with about four times as many cities. We also get a new class, new gameplay activities, new dungeons, new trials, and I bet new skill lines and NPC guilds. I have no doubt it'll have 75-100+ hours of content. I consider that money well spent as well. Hell, that's a good deal for the amount of time we'll get out of it.

ADDENDUM: And we're STILL getting quarterly updates too. Icing. On. The. Cake.

This must be everyone's first MMO if the price of a full expansion is such a *** shock.

literally no one is complaining about the price. The price isn't the issue. Dunno how many times this needs to be said. THE PRICE ISN'T THE ISSUE! THE PRICE ISN'T THE ISSUE! THE PRICE ISN'T THE ISSUE!

Has it sunk in yet?

THE PRICE ISN'T THE ISSUE!

SunfireKnight86

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

Lol who said anything about free? Maybe you should grow up.

You mean people are getting there subs for free? For some reason I doubt that. So don't say people are asking for anything for free. Paying every month is not free.

You're crying about a business plan. Do you go in McDonald's and *** when it costs extra to super size your meal too? Yes, you're arguing and demanding that a business should cater to you, giving you everything you want at a price of your choosing. It doesn't work like that. Nothing in life ever works like that. Grow up.

More strawman arguments. Nice.

Nice buzzword while still, after four posts, not making any sort of point at all.

MLGProPlayer

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

Lol who said anything about free? Maybe you should grow up.

You mean people are getting there subs for free? For some reason I doubt that. So don't say people are asking for anything for free. Paying every month is not free.

You're crying about a business plan. Do you go in McDonald's and *** when it costs extra to super size your meal too? Yes, you're arguing and demanding that a business should cater to you, giving you everything you want at a price of your choosing. It doesn't work like that. Nothing in life ever works like that. Grow up.

More strawman arguments. Nice.

Nice buzzword while still, after four posts, not making any sort of point at all.

I can't respond to you because you aren't arguing the issue. You're arguing against a strawman.

ForsakenSin

ZOS ToS reminds me of this video clip....

So BE CAREFUL KEEP QUIET !!!! ...it could get worse ..

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE

vyndral13preub18_ESO

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

You have poor reading comprehension. I got the free experience. I don't sub. I get the same housing as those that sub. I get One Tamriel. What other games do is irrelevant, as is what people did a few years ago.

What is relevant is that people with subs paid $15 a month with the expectation that it would get them access to new content. It didn't get them access to One Tamriel. That is base game. Even cheap ole me has that. It won't get them access to Homestead either. That is automatic. So what the hell are they paying for?

Please don't bother with the "deserve" nonsense. They are subbing for access to all paid content. 2 quarters of no paid content and then one where the paid content is not included. Pretty clear cut deceptive marketing.

You are incredibly obtuse to respond to a critique of people getting no return on their sub with talking about people getting free content. I am the free-rider, not the people who subbed.

ZOS made the choice to get rid of the mandatory sub. They made the choice of what would be included in ESO+ and how they would market it. They made the choice to not have any paid DLC for 2 straight quarters. Then they made the choice to have paid DLC, but give it a different label so it wouldn't be counted as fulfillment of the terms of ESO+.

They sub for what ZOS gives them. If you don't like it, don't sub. They get access to 3 DLC zones, 2 dungeons, and a crafting bag. Literally nowhere did ZOS say there would never be xpacs, or that all content would be covered by the sub cost.

NovaShadow wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:



Notice where it says ALL downloadable content.

(http://gamerlogic.nickchevalier.com/news/elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription-console-release-date-announced/)

The fact that they've since changed it to crown store only DLC's is simply a technicality to allow them to call future content 'expansions' and exclude them from the crown store so they can charge extra money.

I just don't understand how so many people are caught up in the hype and are overlooking it.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

After reading a few more comments, I think many people here have a good point. Promising all future content with an ESO+ subscription was a mistake on ZOS's part if they planned on releasing content that even Plus subscribers would have to buy separately. While I'm sure it would be infeasible to include Morrowind with ESO+, perhaps some kind of deal, or arrangement, or restructuring of what ESO+ actually is would be necessary. For the players who subbed solely for access to future content, the feel is definitely that they have been cheated. For those (like me) who subbed for the other benefits, I at least don't feel like I'm being ripped off. I think it's time to redefine what ESO+ is going forward, so that we don't run into any more issues of what should be included. The terms of ESO+ need to be laid out clear, or changed in ways that everyone (or at least a majority of people) can consider fair. Perhaps people would be more satisfied if ESO+ included more digital convenience items to start to steer it away from being a subscription to bypass expansion costs. Or maybe ZOS should just include the most basic version of Morrowind for ESO+ subscribers.

I subbed for both reasons. I'm slowly going through content at my own pace, trying to see everything the game has to offer. Once I know more, I'll be buying morrowwind. I like to have all the facts before buying

Elsonso

.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

It's all a matter of perception. Morrowind is essentially going to cost me 5500 Crowns, and I would have paid that in the Crown Store. This makes it really hard to get worked up about them doing a paid Chapter/Expansion instead of a DLC. Believe me, I went into this whole thing primed to get worked up. I was expecting bad news, which some of the rest of you got, even if I didn't.

In the end, I got a cash-only upgrade to the game that includes a large new zone, and new class. It was not a hard decision to make, given the time and money I already have in the game. I was expecting much worse.

It will cost you zero crowns and $40 dollars.

Why try to find ways to obfuscate tracking your spending?

Sale or not, 5500 Crowns are worth $39.99. I don't bother tracking which ones I bought on sale, which ones came from ESO Plus, and which ones I paid full price for. No where do I have an average Crown value. I don't spend the free ones on some things, and the paid ones on other things. Crowns are worth whatever the list price is.

I consider Morrowind to be 5500 Crowns because that is close to what I would have expected it to sell for in the Crown Store, had they gone that way. It is good to keep in mind what this costs in terms of Crown Store DLC. It is much better than comparing it to cups of coffee, beer, or McDonalds.

Buying Morrowind is about perceived value. Is it worth what they are asking for it. Plain and simple. At $39.99, which is 5500 Crowns, and about what I expect a Vvardenfell DLC would sell for, yes, it appears to be worth it. Now, the only question is whether I am willing to spend the money on the game, above what I am spending on ESO Plus. I pre-ordered, so obviously, the answer is that I am. Why? I have already spent a ton of time and money on the game, and I see no need to throw that away by getting ruffled over them changing their mind about paid content. At least, for now.

Now, if they are going to make this an annual thing, or at least common, I might feel differently about subscribing to ESO Plus. For this first time, I am going to take the approach of seeing what happens down the road. They do need to go for quite a few DLCs before doing this again.

Pandorii

Mark my words, Warden is going to be stronger than all the old classes. Those who can't buy the expansion will be left in the dust.

Faulgor

I'm just amused about all the new threads opening up complaining about the complainers instead of discussing them here.

I was keeping my sub and saving crowns to buy the next DLC, supposedly Vvardenfell. Now, as I won't be able to get Vvardenfell through these means, I canceled my sub. Most business like to know why customers cancel a service with them, so I just thought ZOS would like to know about this as well.

Wolfshead

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

Serious what is your problem when Morrowind expansion are mad for you need to pay real money to get 1st expansion to ESO since the release?

You think just for you a ESO+ member you should get for free come on do you think that those poor people the still play WoW get any expansion for free just for the pay a monthly subscribe? I can tell you this the answer is NO

I will try to explain so you understand.

1. DLC is just like patch/content patch in WoW you get for free under a expansion cycle that is why you pay your monthly subscribe.
2. Morrwind is just like a expansion in WoW you have pay really money even if you pay a monthly subscribe in WoW.
3. ESO+ membership is just like a monthly subscribe in WoW every patch/content patch is free until next expansion come then you have pay to get that expansion.

The big different between WoW and ESO is that you can play still ESO without pay any "monthly subscribe" ESO+ membership and dont know why you and other people on this forum is get so upset serious did you guys think about that ESO+ is just like a monthly subscribe to WoW but being a ESO+ member is all up to yourself if you odnt want be a ESO+ memberand you dont have pay for.

I think it is about time we get a really expansion and some of you will say that this is not expansion but to me and many other i think well say that Morrwind is a expansion.

shadoza

Wolfshead wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

Serious what is your problem when Morrowind expansion are mad for you need to pay real money to get 1st expansion to ESO since the release?

You think just for you a ESO+ member you should get for free come on do you think that those poor people the still play WoW get any expansion for free just for the pay a monthly subscribe? I can tell you this the answer is NO

I will try to explain so you understand.

1. DLC is just like patch/content patch in WoW you get for free under a expansion cycle that is why you pay your monthly subscribe.
2. Morrwind is just like a expansion in WoW you have pay really money even if you pay a monthly subscribe in WoW.
3. ESO+ membership is just like a monthly subscribe in WoW every patch/content patch is free until next expansion come then you have pay to get that expansion.

The big different between WoW and ESO is that you can play still ESO without pay any "monthly subscribe" ESO+ membership and dont know why you and other people on this forum is get so upset serious did you guys think about that ESO+ is just like a monthly subscribe to WoW but being a ESO+ member is all up to yourself if you odnt want be a ESO+ memberand you dont have pay for.

I think it is about time we get a really expansion and some of you will say that this is not expansion but to me and many other i think well say that Morrwind is a expansion.

Please, stop comparing ESO to WoW. WoW is lame...has been for a very long time.

Consumers expected more from a company like Bethesda. Sub members are confused when they consider what they thought they were getting and what they have been told they are getting. When people get confused, they get frustrated, when the are frustrated long enough, the get upset/angry. It is not difficult to figure out why they are upset and "WoW' is not part of the equation.

bearclawmcbainb16_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Here guys I fixed the graphic and added the appropriate disclaimer.

SunfireKnight86

catsgomeow wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

People who have subbed since day one have essentially payed $135 toward the development of this content. They pay $45 per quarter toward the development of DLC, which grants them access to the DLC. That means they essentially paid $45 for Orsinium, $45 for TG, $45 for two dungeons. Since we have had 2 quarters with no pay DLC, they are essentially forking over 3 quarters worth of subs for this content that is only $40.

Anyone who says people with subs are cheap for complaining aren't thinking very deeply. This is a bait and switch. ZOS said there would be quarterly DLC and people with a sub would get access through the sub. No, for 3 quarters, subs just look like suckers as they get no more access than I get for not paying a cent.

Now sub = crafting bags + overpriced crowns.

Oh, lordie. No new content besides a total overhaul of the whole *** game and housing. You know, many games don't have anything for months at a time. Until just a few years ago, paying full price for a sub plus an expansion was a given in an MMO.

What you mean to say is you somehow "deserve" a free MMO experience with no subs that regularly delivers new content. To that, I say grow up.

You have poor reading comprehension. I got the free experience. I don't sub. I get the same housing as those that sub. I get One Tamriel. What other games do is irrelevant, as is what people did a few years ago.

What is relevant is that people with subs paid $15 a month with the expectation that it would get them access to new content. It didn't get them access to One Tamriel. That is base game. Even cheap ole me has that. It won't get them access to Homestead either. That is automatic. So what the hell are they paying for?

Please don't bother with the "deserve" nonsense. They are subbing for access to all paid content. 2 quarters of no paid content and then one where the paid content is not included. Pretty clear cut deceptive marketing.

You are incredibly obtuse to respond to a critique of people getting no return on their sub with talking about people getting free content. I am the free-rider, not the people who subbed.

ZOS made the choice to get rid of the mandatory sub. They made the choice of what would be included in ESO+ and how they would market it. They made the choice to not have any paid DLC for 2 straight quarters. Then they made the choice to have paid DLC, but give it a different label so it wouldn't be counted as fulfillment of the terms of ESO+.

They sub for what ZOS gives them. If you don't like it, don't sub. They get access to 3 DLC zones, 2 dungeons, and a crafting bag. Literally nowhere did ZOS say there would never be xpacs, or that all content would be covered by the sub cost. You're saying they should have, not that they did. And again, nobody makes anyone pay. If it saves you money to just buy all the DLC, then who's stopping you? I like the sub bonuses, I have a lot of money, and I'll do what the *** I please.

What the *** is the end game with all this forum bitching? Do you people think ZOS will change their whole business model because the most toxic elements of an MMO community (which is saying something) got on here and screeched at them? Do you think people like me will change our minds because "ProMLG" thinks the business model is bad.

Again, grow up.

EDIT: Also crowns, crafting, and XP bonuses. Forgot those.

You are describing people who have had the wording on their eso+ changed to something other than what it was, this is the pissed off elements of the MMO, the toxic elements are coming from else where...

No, it wasn't. I've been a sub since early access. I'm well aware of "what I am owed" as one, and never did the say expansion packs would be covered, nor that all content from here until the last server shut down would count as DLC to be covered by a sub. You assumed, for some reason, and now you're upset. It's really very cut and dry.

Sausage

Goodbye, please try Conan Exiles, its awesome.

SantieClaws

Khajiit always accepted that the pockets must be emptied for new travel opportunities such as this yes.

However a nice gesture might be to give something exclusive at launch? A mount or pet or some gesture of recognition yes.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

sevomd69

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit always accepted that the pockets must be emptied for new travel opportunities such as this yes.

However a nice gesture might be to give something exclusive at launch? A mount or pet or some gesture of recognition yes.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

A loyalty mount would be pretty awesome... I can definitely see something like this transpiring...

Norn

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Here guys I fixed the graphic and added the appropriate disclaimer.

I'm on the same side with you guys but let's not fool ourselves. DLC and EP have always been different terms.

Pops_ND_Irish

Wow! This doesn't even happen for 6 months !

6 months of whining and crying !

Pops_ND_Irish

I'm not buying Morrowind for $40 !
I bought the $60 collectors upgrade !

adamastorx

Does the Collectors Morrowind Upgrade include the 4 preivous DLC? I can't find that info anywhere...

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Norn wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Here guys I fixed the graphic and added the appropriate disclaimer.

I'm on the same side with you guys but let's not fool ourselves. DLC and EP have always been different terms.

Even when they offer the exact same thing? There is no discernible difference this time other than the fact that ZOS has chosen to label this as an expansion so they can cheat subscribers out of crowns.

There are supposed to be 4DLCs per year right? well there haven't been. So subscribers got cheated out of content because the time went to make this, then on top of that, they cant even pay for this with crowns.

probablyafk

(taken from elsewhere)

I think this isn't about ESO+ and people demanding everything just because they subscribe. I believe it's really about value for money. If someone thinks the expansion provides enough stuff for the money being asked they will be unlikely to complain. Whether they continue to subscribe is almost a secondary issue to whether they'll buy the new expac.

So here's a look at why people my think it's not enough stuff and thus feel it's not worthy of the extra money (and hence why they *** that they should just get it for free because ESO+).

What we're getting:

• A new zone. That's incredibly uncomparable with a standard expansion in WoW. If you sold this to the WoW audience as an expansion they would laugh in your face. Lets be honest - a new zone, no matter how big, could be DLC. I think it's entirely reasonable to have expected a campaign from an expansion. For this price it seems we should be adding something as big as that. A single zone? pfft.
• A new class. This is great and it is something most people wanted, nice work!
• Some battleground tilesets and some other PvP stuff. I can't comment, not my thing.
• A single trial. This is ok but very much within the realms of the expected rather than super exciting. No one is jumping up and screaming about this anywhere on the forums I've seen. It's like, cool, a single additional thing to do at end game. From that point of view it's a big let down.

We're not getting:

• Changes to existing classes. Unlike other game expansions there's no intent here to change the existing ESO - although one suspects there'll be some small things done. But this new content is very isolated from the rest of the game. There is nothing new for my existing characters here. After I've rolled the Warden, leveled them (presumably in the new zone, so doubling up content), then what?
• Changes to existing zones. We defeated the big bad guy and so we'd hope the world would change and could let us move on to bigger and better things. But again, this expac is isolated from the main story, or it continues it into it's own lands without no impact on the rest of the game.
• New Features. Because of the DLC/ESO+ relationship it seems the developers are unable to roll features into the new expansion. So there's no equivilent of the flying mount, or special ways to interact with existing content. There's nothing that adds shine to what we've already been doing. I would hope they'd just roll this stuff out anyway, give it to existing subscribers, and make the game better while they're adding the expac. Housing is an example of the compromise we end up with - it's delivered to the main game users to appese ESO+ subscribers but it also represents a half-solution. If the expansion had features it bought to the main game as well as it's own little island I think it'd bring more people back, more people in, and add to those who buy the expac.

The problem with this expansion as it's being sold to us now is that it ticks a couple of important boxes but squanders so many other oppotunities. I fail to see how anyone could compare it justifiably to other products on the market and argue successfully that it's a comparable price for the content delivered. Show me how this compares with a WoW expansion cost for feature.

We might still buy it. We might still like it. But those who want to point out the flaws are quite right in doing so. The rest of us are probably just chumps. Until something better comes along anyway.

One assumes that won't take too long since 30 hours after getting the expansion many of us will have done everything there is for us to do. There is no replay value here.

Dracane

I have no problem paying for it. If it is really as huge as a new game, which I doubt at this point but we'll see.
I'm rather surprised, how they always find new ways to grab cash from the players. Really clever, they really melk the franchise

probablyafk

tl;dr I think it's reasonable to have wanted a $40 expansion pack (i.e. we all have to pay extra) to have included a full campaign with multiple maps, a new class, changes to the existing classes that provide replay value and new ways to enage with the game, some shiny new features to make existing content feel fresh, and a real feeling that the game world is moving on.

Less than that doesn't feel like it's a real expac, which means ESO+ payers are going to whinge because they are already disappointed with what they're paying for.

Ilmarthethief

probablyafk wrote: »

(taken from elsewhere)

I think this isn't about ESO+ and people demanding everything just because they subscribe. I believe it's really about value for money. If someone thinks the expansion provides enough stuff for the money being asked they will be unlikely to complain. Whether they continue to subscribe is almost a secondary issue to whether they'll buy the new expac.

So here's a look at why people my think it's not enough stuff and thus feel it's not worthy of the extra money (and hence why they *** that they should just get it for free because ESO+).

What we're getting:

• A new zone. That's incredibly uncomparable with a standard expansion in WoW. If you sold this to the WoW audience as an expansion they would laugh in your face. Lets be honest - a new zone, no matter how big, could be DLC. I think it's entirely reasonable to have expected a campaign from an expansion. For this price it seems we should be adding something as big as that. A single zone? pfft.
• A new class. This is great and it is something most people wanted, nice work!
• Some battleground tilesets and some other PvP stuff. I can't comment, not my thing.
• A single trial. This is ok but very much within the realms of the expected rather than super exciting. No one is jumping up and screaming about this anywhere on the forums I've seen. It's like, cool, a single additional thing to do at end game. From that point of view it's a big let down.

We're not getting:

• Changes to existing classes. Unlike other game expansions there's no intent here to change the existing ESO - although one suspects there'll be some small things done. But this new content is very isolated from the rest of the game. There is nothing new for my existing characters here. After I've rolled the Warden, leveled them (presumably in the new zone, so doubling up content), then what?
• Changes to existing zones. We defeated the big bad guy and so we'd hope the world would change and could let us move on to bigger and better things. But again, this expac is isolated from the main story, or it continues it into it's own lands without no impact on the rest of the game.
• New Features. Because of the DLC/ESO+ relationship it seems the developers are unable to roll features into the new expansion. So there's no equivilent of the flying mount, or special ways to interact with existing content. There's nothing that adds shine to what we've already been doing. I would hope they'd just roll this stuff out anyway, give it to existing subscribers, and make the game better while they're adding the expac. Housing is an example of the compromise we end up with - it's delivered to the main game users to appese ESO+ subscribers but it also represents a half-solution. If the expansion had features it bought to the main game as well as it's own little island I think it'd bring more people back, more people in, and add to those who buy the expac.

The problem with this expansion as it's being sold to us now is that it ticks a couple of important boxes but squanders so many other oppotunities. I fail to see how anyone could compare it justifiably to other products on the market and argue successfully that it's a comparable price for the content delivered. Show me how this compares with a WoW expansion cost for feature.

We might still buy it. We might still like it. But those who want to point out the flaws are quite right in doing so. The rest of us are probably just chumps. Until something better comes along anyway.

One assumes that won't take too long since 30 hours after getting the expansion many of us will have done everything there is for us to do. There is no replay value here.

Why do you think we are not getting this?
All we have seen yesterday is just an announcement - we are moving to Morrowind. And they told us about the biggest features they will propose.
Do we know anything about size of new trial? No! Maybe it will be as big as Imperial City with sewers and has 20 bosses, why not?
Do we know anything about changes in classes (and there will be, no doubts )? NO! They said NOTHING about it at all!
Have they said ANYTHING about changes to existing zones, story changes, etc, etc? NO!
All they showed us yesterday is a great intro movie actually BTW, what are the plans for the rest of the year, we are still waiting for Road Ahead, aren't we?
I would like to hear MUCH more details about expansion (and 2017 plans in general) before taking a torch and joining angry crowd.

sadownik

Norn wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Here guys I fixed the graphic and added the appropriate disclaimer.

I'm on the same side with you guys but let's not fool ourselves. DLC and EP have always been different terms.

All expansions are DLC but not all DLC are expansions if that's what you mean.

Darkstorne

I'll happily buy this expansion, but I'm now incredibly glad I cancelled my sub after the Elk mount "f*** you", because this is yet another devaluation of the $15 a month that subscribers throw your way while the majority continue to play for free. The last real DLC that subs got for "free" was the Dark Brotherhood, so between then and Morrowind's launch they would have spent up to $170 on the game through subscription costs alone.

$170 is not enough, ZOS? I was looking for a reason to reactivate my sub but you've given me yet another reason to ensure I remain free to play.

probablyafk

Ilmarthethief wrote: »

I would like to hear MUCH more details about expansion (and 2017 plans in general) before taking a torch and joining angry crowd.

And others would like to carefully voice their concerns and temper the ebullient enthusiasm of the crowd by pointing out that despite a reasonably pretty CG trailer, all the information we have so far doesn't seem particularly overwhelming.

I don't believe I'm with the crazy bunch making unreasonable demands. But, knowing there's still 6 months until release, I think it's important to express my concern at the product in the only way I know how - here on these forums.

If the product doesn't ship with a trial the size of imperial city, if the zone stays the size that it was shown to be, if there are not changes to the way we play the game, will you then be disappointed? I will be. I would prefer not to let that happen.

NovaShadow

probablyafk wrote: »

Ilmarthethief wrote: »

I would like to hear MUCH more details about expansion (and 2017 plans in general) before taking a torch and joining angry crowd.

And others would like to carefully voice their concerns and temper the ebullient enthusiasm of the crowd by pointing out that despite a reasonably pretty CG trailer, all the information we have so far doesn't seem particularly overwhelming.

I don't believe I'm with the crazy bunch making unreasonable demands. But, knowing there's still 6 months until release, I think it's important to express my concern at the product in the only way I know how - here on these forums.

If the product doesn't ship with a trial the size of imperial city, if the zone stays the size that it was shown to be, if there are not changes to the way we play the game, will you then be disappointed? I will be. I would prefer not to let that happen.

4 months and 6 days actually. Not sure where you got 6 months, but it's much closer than that. 2 months less waiting for ya.