Edziu wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

Absolutely not. Stop asking for an unnecessary dumbing down of the class.

Ask for a dps buff elsewhere so your little parses come out nicely, and let the PvPers discuss mechanics. I pulled over 45k dps on Rakkhat with mageblade prior to 1T in purple TBS and Nerien'eth, trial buffed. You don't need to fundamentally change a core class mechanic to get mageblade dps up to today's standards.

while you doing this 45k dps on rakhat on magblade then sorc is doing 50k and magplar/dk with stamdk/sorc 55k-60k, look on this gap in dps between classes

thankyourat wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ninjaguyman wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ninjaguyman wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

Absolutely not. Stop asking for an unnecessary dumbing down of the class.

Ask for a dps buff elsewhere so your little parses come out nicely, and let the PvPers discuss mechanics. I pulled over 45k dps on Rakkhat with mageblade prior to 1T in purple TBS and Nerien'eth, trial buffed. You don't need to fundamentally change a core class mechanic to get mageblade dps up to today's standards.

A recast on merciless proc is not dumbing down the class imo. It's mainly meant to address fluidity in gameplay as needing to recast merciless resolve was what makes it the most clunky at least for me

That recast defines mageblade's play tempo, though. It makes it unique. We mageblades play around the 4 light attack proc and recast at all times, and we are rewarded with the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game (might be the outright highest).

Then I guess we can agree to disagree on the topic of fluidity of combat/tempo. To me the 'tempo' of mageblade playstyle comes from the weaving light attacks part of merciless resolve, not the recast. imo the recast breaks the tempo. the extra flap of my arms to recast merciless just feels like wasted time and movement. but of course this is just my opinion on how I think our playstyle should be.

You bring up pve dps numbers, and i'll just trust in your accuracy there as I don't know much about vet trials. I'm talking mainly about pvp. I play in light armor, and at melee range at that, on my mageblade(im s&b+resto). my light attacks can literally be denied by people kiting me, line of sighting me, passively dodging me, or my light attacks just disappear into the void due to animation cancelling swallow soul wrong. There are already plenty of opportunities for opponents to recover and heal etc during the course of a fight.

If something is nerfed as a result of a recast being added, I wouldn't advocate towards a damage reduction, but just to add another light attack requirement. so 5 hits total. so instead of a weave+recast merciless, I'd just weave in something else, like refreshing path or something. Just better fluidity in combat is all I'm asking. I have a lot of things i need to keep up: shadow image, refreshing path, swallow soul hot(mostly a given ofc), cripple dot, siphoning attacks... shields... even if a recast of merciless goes through,our attacking phase will become of bit smoother, as will the transition into recasting all necessary buffs. but it's not as if mnb's are gonna be on a never ending offensive. atleast that's how it plays out in my head.

Embrace that recast. Knowing when to incorporate refreshing merciless into your combos is part of skillful mageblade play. Weaving light attacks until you get a quick spike in damage from some proc is how a sorc plays, lining up burst around those procs. Mageblades have even greater burst, if you can manage to land it (it's harder), but we have a moment of downtime after each burst where we reprime the merciless buff. Bigger spikes followed by a slight trough. I love that rhythm.

As for tempo, everyone has buffs they have to keep up. Mageblade has to manage to keep these buffs up while relieving as little pressure as possible, or risk losing control of the fight and dying. This is because mageblades struggle on the full defensive but maintain a strong passive defense (heals over time) while on the offensive.

I disagree that magblade has higher burst than a magsorc merciless resolve only has about a 900 increase in tooltip damage over a proc'd frag which only relates to about a extra 400 damage in PvP, and curse has about the same base damage of a soul tether, but the difference is they don't have to rely on a ultimate for their burst and mages wrath is a much better execute because it sticks on opponents. I think that's why you see so many more mag sorcs in cyrodiil it's just a easier playstyle with easier burst combos that are just as effective as magblade combos. But I'm fine with the way merciless works, because I always know when it will proc because I'm in complete control of it unlike frags which just randomly proc. The only thing about merciless I don't like is the loud gun shot sound it makes when you fire it. Making it the most telegraphed burst move in the game. I also think they should make it to where if I bar swap while casting the bow doesn't disappear. Or for the bow to not randomly disappear for no reason. The skill is buggy but the recast is fine

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

You clearly have no idea. Merciless is used on proc and then recast so about every 4-5 sec not 20.

Thats what I thought too....but then I watched him get 38-40k consistantly on a target skeleton by only proccing it once per 20 sec.

It is obvious that Merciless hits for around 10% more than FP, however the increased Monster Helm uptime, the burning and concussion chances, the buff to FP from Engulfing and also the much faster weave uptime seem to give him better results...im still baffled...

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

You clearly have no idea. Merciless is used on proc and then recast so about every 4-5 sec not 20.

Thats what I thought too....but then I watched him get 38-40k consistantly on a target skeleton by only proccing it once per 20 sec.

It is obvious that Merciless hits for around 10% more than FP, however the increased Monster Helm uptime, the burning and concussion chances, the buff to FP from Engulfing and also the much faster weave uptime seem to give him better results...im still baffled...

Did he try proccing it every time on cool down, and his DPS went down?

Yes

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

You clearly have no idea. Merciless is used on proc and then recast so about every 4-5 sec not 20.

Thats what I thought too....but then I watched him get 38-40k consistantly on a target skeleton by only proccing it once per 20 sec.

It is obvious that Merciless hits for around 10% more than FP, however the increased Monster Helm uptime, the burning and concussion chances, the buff to FP from Engulfing and also the much faster weave uptime seem to give him better results...im still baffled...

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Let's also talk about stopping the strife cost nerf.

@ninjaguyman I agree with concealed weapon. It's underwhelming compared to its stamina morph surprise attack.

The speed increase from stealth is useful in pvp only. It needs something else to help in pve.

How about making it apply minor slayer to the player for having it equipped? That could bring mageblades in line with the other magicka classes since we're about 5-10% behind in trial dps.

It also won't affect pvp at all, so no forum crying.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Let's also talk about stopping the strife cost nerf.

@ninjaguyman I agree with concealed weapon. It's underwhelming compared to its stamina morph surprise attack.

The speed increase from stealth is useful in pvp only. It needs something else to help in pve.

How about making it apply minor slayer to the player for having it equipped? That could bring mageblades in line with the other magicka classes since we're about 5-10% behind in trial dps.

It also won't affect pvp at all, so no forum crying.

There is no point in reverting the strife nerf - that's asking for your peanuts back when you really want ice cream.

Reverting the strife nerf is not the only thing I'm asking for.

What would you suggest then? Suck it up and run out of resources if I'm not a staff user?

C4Bliss wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

You clearly have no idea. Merciless is used on proc and then recast so about every 4-5 sec not 20.

Thats what I thought too....but then I watched him get 38-40k consistantly on a target skeleton by only proccing it once per 20 sec.

It is obvious that Merciless hits for around 10% more than FP, however the increased Monster Helm uptime, the burning and concussion chances, the buff to FP from Engulfing and also the much faster weave uptime seem to give him better results...im still baffled...

I always proc it every chance i get... i will try proccing it once every 20sec. does he do 2 rotations before proccing it? How many force pulse is he able to fit in?

Silver_Strider wrote: »

How about making Grim Focus and its morphs into a slotted passive, similar in nature to Mage Light or Expert Hunter, so that it will always grant the Minor Berserk. On top of that, make it so that instead of needing to be cast in order to get it to proc, just let it proc automatically after 4 attacks that the caster can fire at their leisure with the resource cost happening at the time the player uses the proc. This way, it becomes much easier to weave in a rotation as you can just fire and continue on your rotation without the awkward double casting. It might require some fine tuning in the damage and/or cost but I feel it would greatly help NB DPS overall. Barring this,

As for the Strife change, as much as I hate it, I feel it can be justified IF the healing component of the skill is upped from 25% of the damage to 30%. The extra strain on the rare NB Tank and Healer needs to be justified as the skill wasn't incredibly powerful, even in PvP where everything about the skill is doubly nerfed.

Path of Darkness really needs some love as well because it's just poor damage, especially when compared to other ground based AoEs, such as Elemental Blockade or Liquid Lightning. Up the damage and give the morphs some extra utility. Have Refreshing Path give a Minor Life Steal debuff (Or even a Stamina Steal) on enemies it hits and give Twisting Path Minor Breech or even just a snare.

Also, please make Debilitate a Stamina DoT for Stamblades because they really need a class DoT to help them out.

Finally, I feel Power Extraction needs a decent buff because it's just overall outclassed by Steel Tornado. Having it apply Minor Fracture, a DoT, or even just upping the damage to make it comparable to Steel Tornado would be a great help.

Paneross wrote: »

Mass Hysteria needs to break on damage.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

C4Bliss wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

You clearly have no idea. Merciless is used on proc and then recast so about every 4-5 sec not 20.

Thats what I thought too....but then I watched him get 38-40k consistantly on a target skeleton by only proccing it once per 20 sec.

It is obvious that Merciless hits for around 10% more than FP, however the increased Monster Helm uptime, the burning and concussion chances, the buff to FP from Engulfing and also the much faster weave uptime seem to give him better results...im still baffled...

I always proc it every chance i get... i will try proccing it once every 20sec. does he do 2 rotations before proccing it? How many force pulse is he able to fit in?

He is averaging around 31 FP in a 76 sec parse, id say he does around 10 FP per merciless duration.