stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.


The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.


Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Mx13 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.


The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.


Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

You were fighting an undead (skeleton) which means your numbers are skewed because you were getting fighters guild passives.

Skilled Tacker
WHILE USING FIGHTERS GUILD ABILITIES:

Your Fighters Guild abilities that deal damage deal an additional 20% damage to Undead, Daedra and Werewolves.

Only Fighters Guild abilities deal extra damage to undead/deaedra

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.


The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.


Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Those are fantastic numbers however do remember our minor beserk skews the DPS a bit. As while other classes can get this high and more, they also get combat prayer, so they benefit more from those group buffs.

A few questions, why illambris. It's barely pulling wright for you if you look at the percentage of damage it is giving you in both parses. Could you sustain Kena or is another 5 piece the answer?

I tried illambris, Grothdarr and Valkyn. Valkyn is slightly weaker than illambris, and Grothdarr requires you to be melee. Kena is complete trash imo. The sustain difference is annoying and the amount of times it procs not letting me cast my ultimate is enough of a reason not to use it. Illambris also helps proc spellweave.


I agree with you about minor berserk but the point I'm making is that magNB is fine. Even on live I hit around the same numbers in single target as my magsorc. But my magsorc sometimes runs into sustain issues even on live and it's about to get a whole lot worse.


There isn't really any other 5pc sets I can think of that would be worth it over the monster set and the raw stats of willpower. Monster helms will still be BiS, which just shows how ridiculously strong they are right now.

Few more questions lol. Why is sutain better are you fitting siphoning in that rotation? Also why willpower over moondancer?

LiquidPony wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Veil of blades remove the dot... I gotta disagree. It's not huge DPS, but it's a damaging tool. If the damage is insignificant boost it, if the range is insignificant boost that. It already provides a solid use. They could add a small healing component to it perhaps, or increase range. But this skill is fine. The damage also helps end those stacked fights quicker, taking the damage out would make it wholly weaker than nova, and even adding in some group buff would then make us veil monkeys with even lower DPS as our ultimate does no damage.

I doubt most players have any idea Veil of Blades even has a DoT, honestly. The cost of the ult is so high (200!) that we don't drop it often enough for the DoT to have a significant effect. And it already has a healing component via the synergy. The primary reason my group prefers Veil is that it lasts nearly twice as long as Nova. And ultimately I don't care if changing Veil reduces our DPS as long is it means that groups start running NBs again. Additionally, I'm not sure a minor increase in our single-target DPS is going to get us back into raid groups because we don't provide significant group utility and have low survivability. Perhaps something more outside the box like modifying Dark Cloak to be useful for personal mitigation in group PvE.

I don't think that Veil needs to be changed as, like I said, I see it as one of the only active NB abilities actually worth using in group PvE. However, given the lack of NBs in end-game groups, something clearly needs to be changed.

Paneross wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

For some players like myself this is true because i do not use Fear. Even though Fear is very op for my build id rather not relie on it but instead utilize the stun from surprise attack and incap for combo's. The 50 ult cost lets me chew out incaps rather frequently and id hate to loose this aspect to my build.

I personally think the damage should just be lowered if anything. The healing debuff, increased damage and stun is what really matter in my opinion. If its doing to much damage injunction with proc sets and such just lower its damage.

A honest NB for once. Far from the typical "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaa I should be able to kill anyone in 3 seconds whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Heavy Armor OP because it takes me an extra seconds to kill them WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"[/quote

]

You have never played a nb right?
Every nb that kills in 3 seconds either ganks or has a ridiculously bad enemy.
Heavy Armor is a problem on its one and should be nerfed for the extra survivability it gives any playstyle with out any drawbacks. You can have equal burst to a NB and better sustain and much better survivability on any class.

But this is just to show you how biased you are.

Both MagNB and StamNB need help in both PvP and PvE stam more in PvE and less in pvp and mag needs a lot of help in both.
There are many suggestions how to do it and I mentioned my own in this thread before and those should be the only things that should be in this thread.

Yes I have a stam and mag nightblade. Your argument is now invalid.

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.


The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.


Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Those are fantastic numbers however do remember our minor beserk skews the DPS a bit. As while other classes can get this high and more, they also get combat prayer, so they benefit more from those group buffs.

A few questions, why illambris. It's barely pulling wright for you if you look at the percentage of damage it is giving you in both parses. Could you sustain Kena or is another 5 piece the answer?

I tried illambris, Grothdarr and Valkyn. Valkyn is slightly weaker than illambris, and Grothdarr requires you to be melee. Kena is complete trash imo. The sustain difference is annoying and the amount of times it procs not letting me cast my ultimate is enough of a reason not to use it. Illambris also helps proc spellweave.


I agree with you about minor berserk but the point I'm making is that magNB is fine. Even on live I hit around the same numbers in single target as my magsorc. But my magsorc sometimes runs into sustain issues even on live and it's about to get a whole lot worse.


There isn't really any other 5pc sets I can think of that would be worth it over the monster set and the raw stats of willpower. Monster helms will still be BiS, which just shows how ridiculously strong they are right now.

Few more questions lol. Why is sutain better are you fitting siphoning in that rotation? Also why willpower over moondancer?

Sustain because kena is 33% increase and also wrecks your ultimate timing by proccing at the worst moments like just before you wanna throw a meteor and all of the sudden it costs 266 when you only have 200. You can fit in siphoning but that means you lose more casts of force pulse. As a whole a set like grothdarr or illambris leads to more damage, especially in AoE, and also procs things like spellweave and sets enemies on fire which huffs blockade. Willpower over moondancer because the 5% stacks additively with impale.

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.


The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.


Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Those are fantastic numbers however do remember our minor beserk skews the DPS a bit. As while other classes can get this high and more, they also get combat prayer, so they benefit more from those group buffs.

A few questions, why illambris. It's barely pulling wright for you if you look at the percentage of damage it is giving you in both parses. Could you sustain Kena or is another 5 piece the answer?

I tried illambris, Grothdarr and Valkyn. Valkyn is slightly weaker than illambris, and Grothdarr requires you to be melee. Kena is complete trash imo. The sustain difference is annoying and the amount of times it procs not letting me cast my ultimate is enough of a reason not to use it. Illambris also helps proc spellweave.


I agree with you about minor berserk but the point I'm making is that magNB is fine. Even on live I hit around the same numbers in single target as my magsorc. But my magsorc sometimes runs into sustain issues even on live and it's about to get a whole lot worse.


There isn't really any other 5pc sets I can think of that would be worth it over the monster set and the raw stats of willpower. Monster helms will still be BiS, which just shows how ridiculously strong they are right now.

Few more questions lol. Why is sutain better are you fitting siphoning in that rotation? Also why willpower over moondancer?

Sustain because kena is 33% increase and also wrecks your ultimate timing by proccing at the worst moments like just before you wanna throw a meteor and all of the sudden it costs 266 when you only have 200. You can fit in siphoning but that means you lose more casts of force pulse. As a whole a set like grothdarr or illambris leads to more damage, especially in AoE, and also procs things like spellweave and sets enemies on fire which huffs blockade. Willpower over moondancer because the 5% stacks additively with impale.

Thanks I wondered if the difference was big enough to go willpower. I am happy to use willpower instead. The extra magicka helps with sustain and shields.

I just meant without siphoning up how do you sustain well. Also have you ever tested using necropotence. It is not stealing buffs, players are prioratized before pets so while they can get the buff they don't take it from a player ever. Tested 100% guarantee. I am just trying to see what sets I will be wearing next patch...

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

Absolutely not. Stop asking for an unnecessary dumbing down of the class.

Ask for a dps buff elsewhere so your little parses come out nicely, and let the PvPers discuss mechanics. I pulled over 45k dps on Rakkhat with mageblade prior to 1T in purple TBS and Nerien'eth, trial buffed. You don't need to fundamentally change a core class mechanic to get mageblade dps up to today's standards.