cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

Absolutely not. Stop asking for an unnecessary dumbing down of the class.

Ask for a dps buff elsewhere so your little parses come out nicely, and let the PvPers discuss mechanics. I pulled over 45k dps on Rakkhat with mageblade prior to 1T in purple TBS and Nerien'eth, trial buffed. You don't need to fundamentally change a core class mechanic to get mageblade dps up to today's standards.

Whew big shot in again. Thanks for the reply means alot.

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a mechanic needed in PvE the other half of the game there are other aspects that need to change for PvP. But yah know this is about Magblade as a class in all aspects of the game. PvE included. Again though if one less button click completely kills this class and your fun in the game I can suggest you maybe go ahead and press it again so it stays complex....

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ninjaguyman wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

Absolutely not. Stop asking for an unnecessary dumbing down of the class.

Ask for a dps buff elsewhere so your little parses come out nicely, and let the PvPers discuss mechanics. I pulled over 45k dps on Rakkhat with mageblade prior to 1T in purple TBS and Nerien'eth, trial buffed. You don't need to fundamentally change a core class mechanic to get mageblade dps up to today's standards.

A recast on merciless proc is not dumbing down the class imo. It's mainly meant to address fluidity in gameplay as needing to recast merciless resolve was what makes it the most clunky at least for me

That recast defines mageblade's play tempo, though. It makes it unique. We mageblades play around the 4 light attack proc and recast at all times, and we are rewarded with the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game (might be the outright highest).

C4Bliss wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

C4Bliss wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.


The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.


Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Those are fantastic numbers however do remember our minor beserk skews the DPS a bit. As while other classes can get this high and more, they also get combat prayer, so they benefit more from those group buffs.

A few questions, why illambris. It's barely pulling wright for you if you look at the percentage of damage it is giving you in both parses. Could you sustain Kena or is another 5 piece the answer?

I tried illambris, Grothdarr and Valkyn. Valkyn is slightly weaker than illambris, and Grothdarr requires you to be melee. Kena is complete trash imo. The sustain difference is annoying and the amount of times it procs not letting me cast my ultimate is enough of a reason not to use it. Illambris also helps proc spellweave.


I agree with you about minor berserk but the point I'm making is that magNB is fine. Even on live I hit around the same numbers in single target as my magsorc. But my magsorc sometimes runs into sustain issues even on live and it's about to get a whole lot worse.


There isn't really any other 5pc sets I can think of that would be worth it over the monster set and the raw stats of willpower. Monster helms will still be BiS, which just shows how ridiculously strong they are right now.

Few more questions lol. Why is sutain better are you fitting siphoning in that rotation? Also why willpower over moondancer?

Sustain because kena is 33% increase and also wrecks your ultimate timing by proccing at the worst moments like just before you wanna throw a meteor and all of the sudden it costs 266 when you only have 200. You can fit in siphoning but that means you lose more casts of force pulse. As a whole a set like grothdarr or illambris leads to more damage, especially in AoE, and also procs things like spellweave and sets enemies on fire which huffs blockade. Willpower over moondancer because the 5% stacks additively with impale.

Thanks I wondered if the difference was big enough to go willpower. I am happy to use willpower instead. The extra magicka helps with sustain and shields.

I just meant without siphoning up how do you sustain well. Also have you ever tested using necropotence. It is not stealing buffs, players are prioratized before pets so while they can get the buff they don't take it from a player ever. Tested 100% guarantee. I am just trying to see what sets I will be wearing next patch...

Spellweave is the best NB set mainly for the reason that it applies the burning effect which does damage on its own as well as makes your elemental blockade hit 20% harder, and it is your hardest hitting skill. Outside of that, Necropotence requires the wonky pet buff which doesn't show up properly for me in Srendarr. I'm going to be sticking with Spellweave, seems to be the best choice. Sustain will be a lot more difficult on MagSorc after the patch and they will no longer be able to do fights without popping orbs. Magicka NB on the other hand is completely self-sufficient and will just be able to occasionally pop siphoning attacks and remain flush on magicka throughout any fight, range or melee based.

I cant see BSW beeing bis next update with the changes 2 destro passives... I could be wrong but I will need 2 test if 2 inferno will be better than 1 inferno 1 lightning.
I think using scathing with aether might be pretty good. Even julianos with scathing might be worth it!

No. Burning Spellweave will be BiS hands down, the extra damage from the burning effect is insane - scathing and julianos don't really come that close. Also, Merciless, Impale, Cripple, and light attacks are all single target skills. valkyn is also single target. Dual inferno staves will be the way to go with Dunmer and engulfing flames buff.

I will try out Bsw with moondancer, 2 inferno and Valkyn (which is my current setup on live).
The other setup i will try is scathing aether kena 1 inferno and 1 lightning.

The thing I wanna know is will the aoe damage buff and minor vulnerability beat the damage buff from burning? Also curious how valkyn performs without crits...

Nice parse btw

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

C4Bliss wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

C4Bliss wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.


The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.


Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Those are fantastic numbers however do remember our minor beserk skews the DPS a bit. As while other classes can get this high and more, they also get combat prayer, so they benefit more from those group buffs.

A few questions, why illambris. It's barely pulling wright for you if you look at the percentage of damage it is giving you in both parses. Could you sustain Kena or is another 5 piece the answer?

I tried illambris, Grothdarr and Valkyn. Valkyn is slightly weaker than illambris, and Grothdarr requires you to be melee. Kena is complete trash imo. The sustain difference is annoying and the amount of times it procs not letting me cast my ultimate is enough of a reason not to use it. Illambris also helps proc spellweave.


I agree with you about minor berserk but the point I'm making is that magNB is fine. Even on live I hit around the same numbers in single target as my magsorc. But my magsorc sometimes runs into sustain issues even on live and it's about to get a whole lot worse.


There isn't really any other 5pc sets I can think of that would be worth it over the monster set and the raw stats of willpower. Monster helms will still be BiS, which just shows how ridiculously strong they are right now.

Few more questions lol. Why is sutain better are you fitting siphoning in that rotation? Also why willpower over moondancer?

Sustain because kena is 33% increase and also wrecks your ultimate timing by proccing at the worst moments like just before you wanna throw a meteor and all of the sudden it costs 266 when you only have 200. You can fit in siphoning but that means you lose more casts of force pulse. As a whole a set like grothdarr or illambris leads to more damage, especially in AoE, and also procs things like spellweave and sets enemies on fire which huffs blockade. Willpower over moondancer because the 5% stacks additively with impale.

Thanks I wondered if the difference was big enough to go willpower. I am happy to use willpower instead. The extra magicka helps with sustain and shields.

I just meant without siphoning up how do you sustain well. Also have you ever tested using necropotence. It is not stealing buffs, players are prioratized before pets so while they can get the buff they don't take it from a player ever. Tested 100% guarantee. I am just trying to see what sets I will be wearing next patch...

Spellweave is the best NB set mainly for the reason that it applies the burning effect which does damage on its own as well as makes your elemental blockade hit 20% harder, and it is your hardest hitting skill. Outside of that, Necropotence requires the wonky pet buff which doesn't show up properly for me in Srendarr. I'm going to be sticking with Spellweave, seems to be the best choice. Sustain will be a lot more difficult on MagSorc after the patch and they will no longer be able to do fights without popping orbs. Magicka NB on the other hand is completely self-sufficient and will just be able to occasionally pop siphoning attacks and remain flush on magicka throughout any fight, range or melee based.

I cant see BSW beeing bis next update with the changes 2 destro passives... I could be wrong but I will need 2 test if 2 inferno will be better than 1 inferno 1 lightning.
I think using scathing with aether might be pretty good. Even julianos with scathing might be worth it!

No. Burning Spellweave will be BiS hands down, the extra damage from the burning effect is insane - scathing and julianos don't really come that close. Also, Merciless, Impale, Cripple, and light attacks are all single target skills. valkyn is also single target. Dual inferno staves will be the way to go with Dunmer and engulfing flames buff.

I will try out Bsw with moondancer, 2 inferno and Valkyn (which is my current setup on live).
The other setup i will try is scathing aether kena 1 inferno and 1 lightning.

The thing I wanna know is will the aoe damage buff and minor vulnerability beat the damage buff from burning? Also curious how valkyn performs without crits...

Nice parse btw

The minor vulnerability doesn't come from light attacking with lightning staff from what I've seen. It comes from force pulse and lightning ilambris. Same goes for burning and minor maim, light attacks don't seem to apply those effects. Valkyn performs exactly the same in relation to the other monster helms because they all got the same nerf. I have found valkyn, grothdarr, and ilambris to all do around the same DPS as each other regardless of the setup that I use. But Ilambris gives me the highest overall DPS when I use it. Probably because of minor vulnerability. I believe it was 45% uptime in that parse I posted - even with dual fire staves.

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

ninjaguyman wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ninjaguyman wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

Absolutely not. Stop asking for an unnecessary dumbing down of the class.

Ask for a dps buff elsewhere so your little parses come out nicely, and let the PvPers discuss mechanics. I pulled over 45k dps on Rakkhat with mageblade prior to 1T in purple TBS and Nerien'eth, trial buffed. You don't need to fundamentally change a core class mechanic to get mageblade dps up to today's standards.

A recast on merciless proc is not dumbing down the class imo. It's mainly meant to address fluidity in gameplay as needing to recast merciless resolve was what makes it the most clunky at least for me

That recast defines mageblade's play tempo, though. It makes it unique. We mageblades play around the 4 light attack proc and recast at all times, and we are rewarded with the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game (might be the outright highest).

Then I guess we can agree to disagree on the topic of fluidity of combat/tempo. To me the 'tempo' of mageblade playstyle comes from the weaving light attacks part of merciless resolve, not the recast. imo the recast breaks the tempo. the extra flap of my arms to recast merciless just feels like wasted time and movement. but of course this is just my opinion on how I think our playstyle should be.

You bring up pve dps numbers, and i'll just trust in your accuracy there as I don't know much about vet trials. I'm talking mainly about pvp. I play in light armor, and at melee range at that, on my mageblade(im s&b+resto). my light attacks can literally be denied by people kiting me, line of sighting me, passively dodging me, or my light attacks just disappear into the void due to animation cancelling swallow soul wrong. There are already plenty of opportunities for opponents to recover and heal etc during the course of a fight.

If something is nerfed as a result of a recast being added, I wouldn't advocate towards a damage reduction, but just to add another light attack requirement. so 5 hits total. so instead of a weave+recast merciless, I'd just weave in something else, like refreshing path or something. Just better fluidity in combat is all I'm asking. I have a lot of things i need to keep up: shadow image, refreshing path, swallow soul hot(mostly a given ofc), cripple dot, siphoning attacks... shields... even if a recast of merciless goes through,our attacking phase will become of bit smoother, as will the transition into recasting all necessary buffs. but it's not as if mnb's are gonna be on a never ending offensive. atleast that's how it plays out in my head.

xblackroxe wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

You clearly have no idea. Merciless is used on proc and then recast so about every 4-5 sec not 20.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.


Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

You clearly have no idea. Merciless is used on proc and then recast so about every 4-5 sec not 20.

Really doesn't matter with what I'm trying to illustrate. Regardless of how you use the skill the point stands that currently you have to press the skill button twice to fire 1 arrow. Buffing the skill so that it recasts itself after shooting the arrow would make it so you only have to press the skill button once to fire an arrow.

Wow what an astute observation.

Our point is that this is unnecessary and a bad decision.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ninjaguyman wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ninjaguyman wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

Absolutely not. Stop asking for an unnecessary dumbing down of the class.

Ask for a dps buff elsewhere so your little parses come out nicely, and let the PvPers discuss mechanics. I pulled over 45k dps on Rakkhat with mageblade prior to 1T in purple TBS and Nerien'eth, trial buffed. You don't need to fundamentally change a core class mechanic to get mageblade dps up to today's standards.

A recast on merciless proc is not dumbing down the class imo. It's mainly meant to address fluidity in gameplay as needing to recast merciless resolve was what makes it the most clunky at least for me

That recast defines mageblade's play tempo, though. It makes it unique. We mageblades play around the 4 light attack proc and recast at all times, and we are rewarded with the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game (might be the outright highest).

Then I guess we can agree to disagree on the topic of fluidity of combat/tempo. To me the 'tempo' of mageblade playstyle comes from the weaving light attacks part of merciless resolve, not the recast. imo the recast breaks the tempo. the extra flap of my arms to recast merciless just feels like wasted time and movement. but of course this is just my opinion on how I think our playstyle should be.

You bring up pve dps numbers, and i'll just trust in your accuracy there as I don't know much about vet trials. I'm talking mainly about pvp. I play in light armor, and at melee range at that, on my mageblade(im s&b+resto). my light attacks can literally be denied by people kiting me, line of sighting me, passively dodging me, or my light attacks just disappear into the void due to animation cancelling swallow soul wrong. There are already plenty of opportunities for opponents to recover and heal etc during the course of a fight.

If something is nerfed as a result of a recast being added, I wouldn't advocate towards a damage reduction, but just to add another light attack requirement. so 5 hits total. so instead of a weave+recast merciless, I'd just weave in something else, like refreshing path or something. Just better fluidity in combat is all I'm asking. I have a lot of things i need to keep up: shadow image, refreshing path, swallow soul hot(mostly a given ofc), cripple dot, siphoning attacks... shields... even if a recast of merciless goes through,our attacking phase will become of bit smoother, as will the transition into recasting all necessary buffs. but it's not as if mnb's are gonna be on a never ending offensive. atleast that's how it plays out in my head.

Embrace that recast. Knowing when to incorporate refreshing merciless into your combos is part of skillful mageblade play. Weaving light attacks until you get a quick spike in damage from some proc is how a sorc plays, lining up burst around those procs. Mageblades have even greater burst, if you can manage to land it (it's harder), but we have a moment of downtime after each burst where we reprime the merciless buff. Bigger spikes followed by a slight trough. I love that rhythm.

As for tempo, everyone has buffs they have to keep up. Mageblade has to manage to keep these buffs up while relieving as little pressure as possible, or risk losing control of the fight and dying. This is because mageblades struggle on the full defensive but maintain a strong passive defense (heals over time) while on the offensive.

Xvorg wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

PVP player here.

With a fire destro ability on my bar and fire destro equipped my tooltip for strife went up by what appears to be almost 10%... 8% duhhh..

So did all the other single target spells on my main bar. Flame reach does 16k now tool tip. 22k merciless proc. Will i maybe throw a defending Ice destro on my back bar? Not sure it's worth giving up healing ward, but it does provide me with options. I dunno.

Im upset by the nerf to strife, but aty least with my current build i traded slightly increased cost for a big dmg boost.

old cost 893 new cost 1368..... Still cheaper than Force pulse with is 1935.

BAH!

A dmg increase given to all is a dmg increase given to none.