PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

Witar

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Shade is essentially a fancier looking but terrible damage over time effect.

Ranged shade was kind of fun in pvp because of the utility teleport it offered. You can jump around the tower for a long time if you're good. That's why this skill is getting nerfed. Wouldn't want people to have fun unless they play stam sorc that wrobel plays, lol.

LegacyDM

Not sure why the DEVs have not provided comment on why they increased the cost of strife. So far they have ignored all feedback and RFIs related to the strife nerf. Yet, they listened to Sorcs about curse.

Please sign my petition requesting they either revert the cost or give us a damage increase. If you don't agree with the petition, please voice your displeasure here. Not on the petition thread itself.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318879/strife-nerf-petition#latest

Danse_Mayhem

I can see a lot of reasons for and against the changes of this class... But going back to basics, let's be honest here and say that both morphs of Agony basically do the same thing - Which is unnecessary since Fossilise and rune cage have different effects.

And most importantly, Soul Siphon! Most won't even know that this is, but it's that totally pointless alternative morph to Soul tether that I have legit never seen anyone use (apart from I made a respec to try it myself) Surely something can change here? How about instead of Ealing close allies, it gives them a 10 second stealth (functioning like normal stealth that breaks when attacking etc) and major expedition for 10 seconds? That wouldn't be OP, just kinda fun for small stealth movement in tight groups. And would make for more interesting play than just "Drop All ults on that Zerg at once"

Please consider this as no other classes have completely useless morphs, and there is huge potential for creativity here

Kalante

none of this thread mattered ayy lmao.

LegacyDM

GilGalad wrote: »

Here you go:

Wrobel wrote: »

Nightblade: Strife cost increase when nightblade dps is overall low, Crescent Sweep performance vs Incap (Incap cost increase)

• We increased the cost of Strife because it was so much lower than other similar abilities such as Laval Whip or Force Shock. Note - after the cost increase Strife, it is still much lower than these abilities. This change, along with the changes to Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit were targeted at getting players to pay more attention to their resources.
• To help with magicka Nightblade dps, we increased the damage on Path of Darkness. For pvp this ability is harder to land on moving targets. To help with landing burst damage, we increased Impale range. This moves the ability’s range from 18 to 28, thus it gets a bonus +8 on top in Cyrodiil.
• Crescent Sweep and Incap have very similar costs, but one is AoE and the other is single target with added utility so it’s hard to compare them. For Incapacitate, we found that it was over performing and didn’t want to reduce the power of the ability. Adjusting the frequency at which the ability is used means you need to think a bit more strategically about when to use it.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3762292#Comment_3762292

Thanks for this. I missed his response. I'm not sure I understand his logic. Just because other class skills cost more we need to increase NB skill. Huh? NB is not other classes. All classes are different with different abilities. Trying to standardize based on cost is silly. We are nerfing a skill that no one had any issues with and to compensate we are buffing others that really didn't need buffing? Providing buffs no one really asked for? Nerfing a skill hard and doing a jedi mind trick trying to convince us that what we got in return is comparable compensation to the nerf?

Seriously, I don't recall the nbs being on a forum uproar asking for a DPS increase to path of darkness and certainly no one asked for a nerf to strife. And who the heck even cared about impale? That was far left field. He could have easily have said, "to help with DPS we are increasing the damage to Strife and raising the cost." No one would have had a problem with that and most NBs would have lauded his action. I'm not sure I have registered and fully comprehended the impale buff yet. It's still dodgeable and glitchy, so what if the range has been increased? Range wasn't an issue in pve and this type of buff is meh for pvp.

TheBonesXXX

@ZOS

If you are going to lower the damage of Nightblades after the pop-out surprise, then you need to switch them to resource sustainment that is greater than all the other classes.

Rebuff the Siphons.

Meaning from Stealth = Best Burst

After stealth, mediocre damage but their sustain should be better than other classes in order to reactive positioning to open up to burst again..

So the fights go > big open.. fight fight fight, reset big open.

I do not care of Magicka NBs damage is whimsical.. what I do care is that their debuffs then control are better than that of all the other classes at the sacrifice of a DPS drop when not coming out of stealth.

-Night blades need to have, highest burst .. BUT from stealth and maintain that (Stamina NBs should be like a Remington 500 shotgun, one big boom at the beginning and fighting for control, magicka NBs not as bursty, but better sustain)
-Should have second best control, next to Sub-Zero spec Wardens
-Need to have top tier sustain with medicore damage
-Beyond slippery because they are after all a nightblade.

Nightblades should be forced back into stealth, other classes should be forced with keeping them out of stealth.

Speed, Grace, Precision are the three big characteristics of a Nightblade.

Paneross

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

@ZOS

If you are going to lower the damage of Nightblades after the pop-out surprise, then you need to switch them to resource sustainment that is greater than all the other classes.

Rebuff the Siphons.

Meaning from Stealth = Best Burst

After stealth, mediocre damage but their sustain should be better than other classes in order to reactive positioning to open up to burst again..

So the fights go > big open.. fight fight fight, reset big open.

I do not care of Magicka NBs damage is whimsical.. what I do care is that their debuffs then control are better than that of all the other classes at the sacrifice of a DPS drop when not coming out of stealth.

-Night blades need to have, highest burst .. BUT from stealth and maintain that (Stamina NBs should be like a Remington 500 shotgun, one big boom at the beginning and fighting for control, magicka NBs not as bursty, but better sustain)
-Should have second best control, next to Sub-Zero spec Wardens
-Need to have top tier sustain with medicore damage
-Beyond slippery because they are after all a nightblade.

Nightblades should be forced back into stealth, other classes should be forced with keeping them out of stealth.

Speed, Grace, Precision are the three big characteristics of a Nightblade.

Needs and wants are two different things. NB does not Need any of that. All I see is "NBs should be the best at this and that."

H4RDFOX

If nightbaldes are classified as a DPS class, and excel at burst damage, as I was corrected both are different. Then NBs by default should out damage any other class (probably why their burst is better if set up well), just as a temp can out-heal, and a DK can out-tank any other class. That's logical. If non-nightblade players want to nerf yet again a fundamental mechanic to this DPS class, then we need to at the same level of damage if not more than the current status in both PVE/PVP. Again, logical.

Arrchangell

DK best at tanking.
Templar best at healing.
Sorc best at Single and AOE dps.
NB best at getting nerfs.

Talking about PVE.

Edziu

Arrchangell wrote: »

DK best at tanking.
Templar best at healing.
Sorc best at Single and AOE dps.
NB best at getting nerfs.

Talking about PVE.

*cough* magDK best single and target dps *cough*

sorc is just great dps as mag dps...on overall dps ofc better than stamina

NB the best to 1shoting people from hide with proc sets and the best to not taking into trials

Arrchangell

Edziu wrote: »

Arrchangell wrote: »

DK best at tanking.
Templar best at healing.
Sorc best at Single and AOE dps.
NB best at getting nerfs.

Talking about PVE.

*cough* magDK best single and target dps *cough*

sorc is just great dps as mag dps...on overall dps ofc better than stamina

NB the best to 1shoting people from hide with proc sets and the best to not taking into trials

Ok yeah i saw about mag dk, but still they are super close, and also i said i'm talking about PVE, so that 1 shooting i don't care about it. :P

Edziu

Arrchangell wrote: »

Ok yeah i saw about mag dk, but still they are super close, and also i said i'm talking about PVE, so that 1 shooting i don't care about it. :P

yeah, so if talking about pve then only option about NB what we have is just this to not take them on trials

TheBonesXXX

Paneross wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

@ZOS

If you are going to lower the damage of Nightblades after the pop-out surprise, then you need to switch them to resource sustainment that is greater than all the other classes.

Rebuff the Siphons.

Meaning from Stealth = Best Burst

After stealth, mediocre damage but their sustain should be better than other classes in order to reactive positioning to open up to burst again..

So the fights go > big open.. fight fight fight, reset big open.

I do not care of Magicka NBs damage is whimsical.. what I do care is that their debuffs then control are better than that of all the other classes at the sacrifice of a DPS drop when not coming out of stealth.

-Night blades need to have, highest burst .. BUT from stealth and maintain that (Stamina NBs should be like a Remington 500 shotgun, one big boom at the beginning and fighting for control, magicka NBs not as bursty, but better sustain)
-Should have second best control, next to Sub-Zero spec Wardens
-Need to have top tier sustain with medicore damage
-Beyond slippery because they are after all a nightblade.

Nightblades should be forced back into stealth, other classes should be forced with keeping them out of stealth.

Speed, Grace, Precision are the three big characteristics of a Nightblade.

Needs and wants are two different things. NB does not Need any of that. All I see is "NBs should be the best at this and that."

Then your reading comprehension needs a bit of work.

Nightblade implies stealth yes? So it makes sense that their top end damage comes from stealth and then damage of out stealth is average at best.

Nightblades have distinct weaknesses, stand alone they are the squishiest class in the game, which is fine - as long as they have options to reset and control the fight.

Playing from stealth, as a Nightblade should be the staple of the class.. or why the *** make it the premiere stealth class?

It makes more sense to me that stamina hits hardest from stealth than magicka but has greater troubles with stat management then magicka.. really the changes weren't warranted.

No one cares about the magicka ranged execute - its been worthless for a while.

Taking the style of Range to Melee, Melee to Range that Nightblade offers boxes the class in and makes it weaker. That was the best part of mNightblade Siphon & Destro weaving, Cloak + Double take with concealed weapon as a control mechanism.

They're removing unique styles of the classes and just making them all the time.

Tornaad

I love the feeling of playing a bow based Character. Morrowind was my introduction to the Elder Scrolls games and I played that game for litterally hundreds of hours. I have played Oblivion and Skyrim just as heavily and most every character I have played, and every character I have enjoyed playing has been bow based.

That being said while none of the classes really seem like they fully support a bow play style the Night blade seems like it comes the closest. The biggest thing that detracts from my ability to feel a bow is supported fully is how few of the class abilities can become stamina based and the fact that none of them start as stamina based. The Nightblade has the most abilities that can become stamina based and so that lets me feel as though I can embrace more of my class abilities than I can with other classes while still enjoying my preferred play style.

I don't know if this helps you or not. But I hope it does.

f047ys3v3n

Arrchangell wrote: »

DK best at tanking.
Templar best at healing.
Sorc best at Single and AOE dps.
NB best at getting nerfs.

Talking about PVE.

I think we are actually back to the point of having all specific roles be specific classes. I believe my raid group is now all dps dk (melee) or sorc (ranged), all heals templar, tanks dk, and no nb in group at all. It kinda reminds me of back in the 1.5 days when you had no sorcs or templar doing dps for SO and almost all were dk with two magica NB for veil. I do recall that at that time our #1 NA AA and HR groups did actually have a stam dk and stam NB player in them so I guess there was actually more diversity in 1.5 before all the changes to balance things. Of course, now, without soft caps, the race is a far more specified as well. That new, huge, dark elf 7% fire is pretty much what you run for dps with the possible exception of sorcs as altmer. What are Breton's supposed to do exactly anyway? Are they some sort of tank class that only fights mage bosses? I'm not really sure as they have no heal or damage buff. I get that they are supposed to use magic as they have a good magic stat buff and a week sustain buff but I am not sure what they are supposed to do with it and their sustain buff is significantly weaker than the Altmer one that also comes with the same resource buff and a 3% damage buff to all magic damage types except the inferior one NB's use for their class skills. Maybe Breton is to Altmer as mNB is to mSorc. Basically the same thing except crappy.

Gotta say, after this latest nerf to mag templar execute I feel they are kind of sub par in trials and the twisting path thing doesn't seem to be getting mag nb back to relevant in addition to being a giant PITA as it has a 11.5 second duration to NB's other 8 second skills. I'm working on a new, better, rotation for the NB but it doesn't look like it is going to solve much based on the testing so far.

Also, fire damage vs. magica damage (this is the primary problem NB's have I think)
Fire damage +10% for dk engulfing boss debuff +7% for dunmer passive + 1.8% (with bsw) burning status effect + increased proc chance for BSW and Llambris = Fire damage is at least 20% buffed over equal start value magic damage. Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

livingdeaddoll_zx

Every class has and elemental synergy, save for nightblades. It's ridiculous and this cop out behind nightblade being a support class is nonsence. For one it doesnt fit the lore with nightblades being the assassins of the elder scrolls world (should really be hitting much harder as dps). While I will conceive that they make great tanks the very idea of having an assassin class that does the least damage of all 4 (soon to be 5 with warden having cold synergy) makes no sense at all. Considering their tree an easy solution would be to passively make all pure magic attacks for nightblades hit harder (can call it shadow synergy if need be) . Calling stealth a synergy is a slap in the face for how useless it is in end game group pve. I do understand and agree that balance between pve and pvp must be maintained and nightblades are awesome in pvp. But let's be honest for a second. The debs have gimped the class as most hard core trials guilds refuse to take magblades anymore. One of the finest classes in the game and the hey are being left out in the cold. Please fix this. As it is a deal breaker. You gave a desires synergy to Stan blades and were all very great full all I'm asking is that you give magblades the same attention. If that's too much to ask then maybe an mmo isn't where this company belongs. On a final not how is it that there are main character Mpc's (I'm looking at you Tharn) that are so obviously a necromancer nightblade and yet nothing even remotely similar in the class to work with. Lazy is what that is, just plain lazy and thoughtless.

livingdeaddoll_zx

Also swallow soul/funnel health nerds wtf. An underwhelming skill that at least had a cheap cost and mild utility down the drains. Are you aware at zenimax that no one uses the skill anymore because of this ???

Witar

Just slot force pulse like the rest of us. It's cheaper, stronger, hits 3 times, procs bsw and monster sets and can't be reflected. Never run out of magicka with it and siphoning attacks.
Zenimax logic is nonexistent as it always was.

Paneross

I appreciate the nerfs to NB. It's make us NB more balanced and we have to use skill instead relying on procs to win fights. I do think incap should cost 80 ult to be me fair to other classes.

ProbablePaul

I think I might take on a play style that is more difficult than most, I mainly solo pvp as a bosmer magicka nightblade with DW/Resto julianos/lich/willpower. Most of my strategy relies on people not knowing what to do with me(how many melee magicka nightblades out there?), but the chance of winning isn't that significant. I have 3.2k spell damage, and a guaranteed crit if I cast shadowy disguise before concealed weapon. I can get my concealed weapon to do somewhere around 10k if I pop a spellpower potion beforehand. The only ways I know that I can really get a kill in a sort of guaranteed way is to stack kena proc, spellpower pot, empower, shadowy disguise, merciless resolve bow then impale. However, now that people stack impen like crazy, I can't really do that anymore. Poisons have definitely helped though.

I don't know what to do really, other than switch to destro/resto, or to stamina because what is supposed to give my class an ability to perform isn't really there with my chosen playstyle. Granted I get kills here and there, but most of the time I die, or get away with shadow image or elusive mist. I've recently had the joy of fighting some players who can literally dance around while I "unload my vengeance" on them. Apparently to no effect.

Anyways, like everyone else here, I'm confused about a few things.

• Whats the problem with strife costing so little? Maybe you could have reduced the cost of another ability?
• Why the auto attacking shade? this limits the strategy of using the shade just for the utility of teleporting; as soon as the shade is cast, it attacks, so no setting the shade down, then attacking from a different angle.
• I tried using impale with the new reach; still mostly useless unless fighting a boss monster.
• Its frustrating that major evasion was nerfed because it also reduced the very little utility of blur/mirage/double take
• Finally, if nightblade is supposed to be the class that represents the rogue/thief archetype, or playstyle, then why doesn't it have most of the traits one would expect to find within it? Nightblades don't have all the utility of a thief class, no inherent evasion bonus, no special strength in using poisons, and on average we do not have the highest burst damage. And then there is stealth specialization; just about anyone can stealth as well as a nightblade if they wear the right gear and pick the right race. Therefore, the only ability that emphasizes the stealth quality of a nightblade is with cloak, but that was nerfed to. All you need is one damn ability on your bar, to not only negate an entire racial bonus(bosmer, khajiit), but also an entire aspect of a single class. Where if someone has magelight set, then it's better for me to not use cloak, or go into stealth... or hell, to even bother fighting them.
• Just one more time; where is the thief/rogue archetype that should be found in the nightblade? As it stands, with every update you guys seem to be on the path of removing any notion of a thief/rogue class

alephthiago

This was the most useless thread in a long time, Zenimax didnt do any changes and everyone got new toys to play with while we (at least in the magicka side) kept being the most underplayed and underwhelming class in pve and pvp....
This is just sad, dont know if they want us all to play warden and delete our nightblades or what.