Upcoming Patch Notes - Sneak Peak

Lord_Hev · December 2016

*Gives us things to spend AP on*

*Ensures it's completely diluted RNG pool and only drop crap blue and green quality jewelry*

Yeah, thanks ZOS. Just what we asked for!

Kilandros · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

It´s kinda funny - i have way more issue fighting people with selenes than i have with viper + tremor. Tremor only being really annoying because of the insane snare on it.

I do think ilambris and grothdarr needed readjustment in pve aswell. They do provide up to 10% of a players total raiddps and are the main reasons (besides destroult) why stamina builds are no longer considered into trial groups.
Which is also what leads me to believe why they changed it for pvp and pve and meant to change it for both.

Edit: I 100% agree viper is still too good of a set because of it´s 100% proccchance.

SO you think it's a good thing to nerf marginal sets like Overwhelming Surge, the Dwemer Spider Heal, Sverra's Scales, etc. because you have issues fighting people with Selene's? GG Zos.

I guess our expectations of ZoS has sunk so much that we are now basically applauded them for not addressing actual specific problems like Grothdar doing too much DPS in trials.

I dont blame PvE players one bit for their frustrations over the PvP community. We cry and complain whenever ZoS changes the gear or raised VR ranks such that we had to go farm new gear and rendered obsolete our gold gear. Now that the same thing is happening to PvE players and they have to redo their builds for a specific PvP balance concern, our attitude is "git gud proc scrub."

Meanwhile we can still get hit with multiple proc sets at the same time and Viper still procs every 4 seconds.

Go ahead and applaud this blanket, lazy solution. I will do nothing of the sort and remain critical of ZoS until they actually address the specific things that are balance issues .

We haven't seen all of the changes to proc sets so you're jumping the gun here.

olsborg · December 2016

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

I was very dissapointed by the proccsets changes. The main problem wasnt them critting, sure that was part of it, but the worst about those sets is they stack with other sets, like 1 player can still deal instane and sure burst by slotting viper, velidreth and widowmaker. But the kicker is, 2 or 3 players manage to hit you with one atk and if all those players have proccsets like that, youre dead wayy, wayy too fast and it feels cheap af.

Joy_Division · December 2016

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

It´s kinda funny - i have way more issue fighting people with selenes than i have with viper + tremor. Tremor only being really annoying because of the insane snare on it.

I do think ilambris and grothdarr needed readjustment in pve aswell. They do provide up to 10% of a players total raiddps and are the main reasons (besides destroult) why stamina builds are no longer considered into trial groups.
Which is also what leads me to believe why they changed it for pvp and pve and meant to change it for both.

Edit: I 100% agree viper is still too good of a set because of it´s 100% proccchance.

SO you think it's a good thing to nerf marginal sets like Overwhelming Surge, the Dwemer Spider Heal, Sverra's Scales, etc. because you have issues fighting people with Selene's? GG Zos.

I guess our expectations of ZoS has sunk so much that we are now basically applauded them for not addressing actual specific problems like Grothdar doing too much DPS in trials.

I dont blame PvE players one bit for their frustrations over the PvP community. We cry and complain whenever ZoS changes the gear or raised VR ranks such that we had to go farm new gear and rendered obsolete our gold gear. Now that the same thing is happening to PvE players and they have to redo their builds for a specific PvP balance concern, our attitude is "git gud proc scrub."

Meanwhile we can still get hit with multiple proc sets at the same time and Viper still procs every 4 seconds.

Go ahead and applaud this blanket, lazy solution. I will do nothing of the sort and remain critical of ZoS until they actually address the specific things that are balance issues .

Can you please stick to one argument instead of bringing new ones in every post?

Choose one you want to discuss and i´ll try to formulate a reply on that one.

On the new brought up sets: I do think it´s acceptable to nerf syvarra overwhelming and whatever else because they´re currently basically irrelevant and require major redesigning to be competetive with or without the nerf. Their usability does not change. You´re using an underperforming set either way.

They may be different but they are all consequences of the same game mechanic change that I dislike for multiple reasons. So more than one argument is going to come up discussing them.

Bottom line is that this is another lazy blanket fix whose effects spill over into sets and areas of the game whose communities that did not have the same uproar as from PvP.

Derra · December 2016

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

I was very dissapointed by the proccsets changes. The main problem wasnt them critting, sure that was part of it, but the worst about those sets is they stack with other sets, like 1 player can still deal instane and sure burst by slotting viper, velidreth and widowmaker. But the kicker is, 2 or 3 players manage to hit you with one atk and if all those players have proccsets like that, youre dead wayy, wayy too fast and it feels cheap af.

Widowmaker received and effective 50% nerf.

With the statement of not wanting to remove proccsets from pvp (which is what zos stated) i don´t see any option for them apart from individually altering all sets they deem problematic.

The core problem is the existance of rgn armor generated dmg in itself in pvp. But i think zos has made it very clear that they deem that desireable as a design mechanic and they want to keep it in the game. That´s the core problem in my opinion.

With what we have no crits is one of the best bandaids we could have hoped for in my opinion. Atleast better than a gcd.

arkansas_ESO · December 2016

I appreciate ZOS identifying the issue of proc sets and allocating developer time to it, but they're going about it in a very wrong way.

Even without anything critting, I can oneshot most people with a Velidreth+Viper+bow heavy+Incap strike. Even without anything critting, Tremorscale+Viper allows a sword and shield build to have equivalent or superior burst to somebody who uses a 2H and things like Dizzying Swing to attack. This change doesn't solve the core issue of proc sets being king in PVP.

What needs to happen is a redesign on proc sets. 5pc proc sets that can be combined with monster sets, like Widowmaker, Red Mountain, and Viper, need to be redesigned to where they're utility instead of damage. Certain monster sets, like Tremorscale, are overperforming by themselves and need a rework. ZOS needs to make it impossible to wear more than one damage-on-proc set, anything less than that and the issue will still remain.

manny254 · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

It´s kinda funny - i have way more issue fighting people with selenes than i have with viper + tremor. Tremor only being really annoying because of the insane snare on it.

I do think ilambris and grothdarr needed readjustment in pve aswell. They do provide up to 10% of a players total raiddps and are the main reasons (besides destroult) why stamina builds are no longer considered into trial groups.
Which is also what leads me to believe why they changed it for pvp and pve and meant to change it for both.

Edit: I 100% agree viper is still too good of a set because of it´s 100% proccchance.

SO you think it's a good thing to nerf marginal sets like Overwhelming Surge, the Dwemer Spider Heal, Sverra's Scales, etc. because you have issues fighting people with Selene's? GG Zos.

I guess our expectations of ZoS has sunk so much that we are now basically applauded them for not addressing actual specific problems like Grothdar doing too much DPS in trials.

I dont blame PvE players one bit for their frustrations over the PvP community. We cry and complain whenever ZoS changes the gear or raised VR ranks such that we had to go farm new gear and rendered obsolete our gold gear. Now that the same thing is happening to PvE players and they have to redo their builds for a specific PvP balance concern, our attitude is "git gud proc scrub."

Meanwhile we can still get hit with multiple proc sets at the same time and Viper still procs every 4 seconds.

Go ahead and applaud this blanket, lazy solution. I will do nothing of the sort and remain critical of ZoS until they actually address the specific things that are balance issues .

I have to agree with this. Most of the larger concerns about proc sets remain, and this blanket nerf is absurd. This choice probably effects pve more than any other possible choice within reason.

Kilandros · December 2016

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

Xsorus · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

fastolfv_ESO · December 2016

i think these changes are all good in the end, though zos does have a track record of screwing up implementation so im gonna wait and see on this one

Satiar · December 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Xsorus · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Depends on your build; pretty much if you're running a Bomb Build with this change or without you're running Destro Ultimate.

But if i'm running a more high damage high burst build i probably would be running Soul Harvest or something.

Taylor_MB · December 2016

Make Impen affect proc set damage and be done with it. If they can identify all proc sets and apply a non-crit rule, applying a damage reduction based on players impen should not be any more complicated.

**wish I knew who said this first so I could credit them

Satiar · December 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Depends on your build; pretty much if you're running a Bomb Build with this change or without you're running Destro Ultimate.

But if i'm running a more high damage high burst build i probably would be running Soul Harvest or something.

I may make a thread on this, I'd like to see more of the old class ultis become relevant again but it's probably best saved for its own section.

For now I'll just keep pumping up that destro damage lol

Manoekin · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Depends on your build; pretty much if you're running a Bomb Build with this change or without you're running Destro Ultimate.

But if i'm running a more high damage high burst build i probably would be running Soul Harvest or something.

I may make a thread on this, I'd like to see more of the old class ultis become relevant again but it's probably best saved for its own section.

For now I'll just keep pumping up that destro damage lol

I'd probably drop a nova if it wasn't going to just get walked out of or instantly negated before it can do it's job. Ice destro can be negated but I can still at least root the group for a second or use it in another way where it doesn't get negated but has an effect on the fight.

Satiar · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Depends on your build; pretty much if you're running a Bomb Build with this change or without you're running Destro Ultimate.

But if i'm running a more high damage high burst build i probably would be running Soul Harvest or something.

I may make a thread on this, I'd like to see more of the old class ultis become relevant again but it's probably best saved for its own section.

For now I'll just keep pumping up that destro damage lol

I'd probably drop a nova if it wasn't going to just get walked out of or instantly negated before it can do it's job. Ice destro can be negated but I can still at least root the group for a second or use it in another way where it doesn't get negated but has an effect on the fight.

I used to use ice destro placed until I realized that I can use the Eye and just gap close after them. Lame? Yes. But the damage is much higher, I can continually reposition it and gap closers keep me on the enemy.

Did I mention that it two shots people? It two shots people. I don't even have to hit DPS buttons. I can just spam shields or something.

Anyways. Your comment on negate is sorta. Negate essentially murdered Standard, Veil, Nova, etc just like Destro murdered the other DPS ultis. But still. Like the placed destro, why use something like that when you ca just slot the skill that 2-3 shots people for a similar amount of ulti?

Manoekin · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Depends on your build; pretty much if you're running a Bomb Build with this change or without you're running Destro Ultimate.

But if i'm running a more high damage high burst build i probably would be running Soul Harvest or something.

I may make a thread on this, I'd like to see more of the old class ultis become relevant again but it's probably best saved for its own section.

For now I'll just keep pumping up that destro damage lol

I'd probably drop a nova if it wasn't going to just get walked out of or instantly negated before it can do it's job. Ice destro can be negated but I can still at least root the group for a second or use it in another way where it doesn't get negated but has an effect on the fight.

I used to use ice destro placed until I realized that I can use the Eye and just gap close after them. Lame? Yes. But the damage is much higher, I can continually reposition it and gap closers keep me on the enemy.

Did I mention that it two shots people? It two shots people. I don't even have to hit DPS buttons. I can just spam shields or something.

Anyways. Your comment on negate is sorta. Negate essentially murdered Standard, Veil, Nova, etc just like Destro murdered the other DPS ultis. But still. Like the placed destro, why use something like that when you ca just slot the skill that 2-3 shots people for a similar amount of ulti?

Eye only has RNG root chance and as a healer I'm not running a high damage build. I don't have to cast it on the enemy group for it to be effective either. It's an ult capable of controlling the battle which is more than you can say about any other ulti. I've noticed a lot of other healers using it now.

Xsorus · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Depends on your build; pretty much if you're running a Bomb Build with this change or without you're running Destro Ultimate.

But if i'm running a more high damage high burst build i probably would be running Soul Harvest or something.

I may make a thread on this, I'd like to see more of the old class ultis become relevant again but it's probably best saved for its own section.

For now I'll just keep pumping up that destro damage lol

I'd probably drop a nova if it wasn't going to just get walked out of or instantly negated before it can do it's job. Ice destro can be negated but I can still at least root the group for a second or use it in another way where it doesn't get negated but has an effect on the fight.

I used to use ice destro placed until I realized that I can use the Eye and just gap close after them. Lame? Yes. But the damage is much higher, I can continually reposition it and gap closers keep me on the enemy.

Did I mention that it two shots people? It two shots people. I don't even have to hit DPS buttons. I can just spam shields or something.

Anyways. Your comment on negate is sorta. Negate essentially murdered Standard, Veil, Nova, etc just like Destro murdered the other DPS ultis. But still. Like the placed destro, why use something like that when you ca just slot the skill that 2-3 shots people for a similar amount of ulti?

Eye only has RNG root chance and as a healer I'm not running a high damage build. I don't have to cast it on the enemy group for it to be effective either. It's an ult capable of controlling the battle which is more than you can say about any other ulti. I've noticed a lot of other healers using it now.

Yea on my Sorc I use Ice Staff Destro Ult (the non eye one) mainly for root

As I generally don't want to run into the middle of zerg balls..

I'll generally drop it on a group and unload on people stuck inside it....Or be a super *** and streak through it back and forth.

Ishammael · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

I think the change will probably be more noticeable for solo or duos then a 6-8 man group...Mainly because at 6-8 people you have more then enough AOE to melt a stacked zerg.....However just having that 25% bonus damage on people past 6 players might be enough to set off a VD for a Solo player for example.....

I suppose so. I'm not even sure I like that though, never liked the ever increasing climb of burst dps as it literally pushes any ult except the best burst ults out of the meta. Builds too, become more focused around sheer DPS and healing and you lose interesting hybrids and support/debuff builds because they're simply not as good as they would be on a better damage build.

Anyways, we shall see. I doubt this actually changes much.

Depends on your build; pretty much if you're running a Bomb Build with this change or without you're running Destro Ultimate.

But if i'm running a more high damage high burst build i probably would be running Soul Harvest or something.

I may make a thread on this, I'd like to see more of the old class ultis become relevant again but it's probably best saved for its own section.

For now I'll just keep pumping up that destro damage lol

I'd probably drop a nova if it wasn't going to just get walked out of or instantly negated before it can do it's job. Ice destro can be negated but I can still at least root the group for a second or use it in another way where it doesn't get negated but has an effect on the fight.

I used to use ice destro placed until I realized that I can use the Eye and just gap close after them. Lame? Yes. But the damage is much higher, I can continually reposition it and gap closers keep me on the enemy.

Did I mention that it two shots people? It two shots people. I don't even have to hit DPS buttons. I can just spam shields or something.

Anyways. Your comment on negate is sorta. Negate essentially murdered Standard, Veil, Nova, etc just like Destro murdered the other DPS ultis. But still. Like the placed destro, why use something like that when you ca just slot the skill that 2-3 shots people for a similar amount of ulti?

Eye only has RNG root chance and as a healer I'm not running a high damage build. I don't have to cast it on the enemy group for it to be effective either. It's an ult capable of controlling the battle which is more than you can say about any other ulti. I've noticed a lot of other healers using it now.

Ice staff on healspec Templars is amazing.
You can contribute with a ridiculous ultimate... or you can root spam with the whirling ice tire.

Anyway, the "Patch Preview" seem overall promising. The proc set changes appear heavy-handed at first... and don't really address the issues of coincident procs or procs-from-stealth. The over-performing sets (groth / Illambris /etc) will remain over performing. Still, the forum PvE rage is outrageous.

Manoekin · December 2016

AOE caps don't matter. I've now seen the light. Why shouldn't you just be able to potato run through ults? Or stack on bodies and mass res knowing you're protected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-19PGdA3c8

Satiar · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

AOE caps don't matter. I've now seen the light. Why shouldn't you just be able to potato run through ults? Or stack on bodies and mass res knowing you're protected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-19PGdA3c8

I don't know what's more funny, you thinking that video proves anything or you blaming your inability to burst a group on AOE caps.

For the record I'm in favor of AOE caps being totally removed lol. I also think this meta is stupid, more stupid than the last.

Ernest145 · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

AOE caps don't matter. I've now seen the light. Why shouldn't you just be able to potato run through ults? Or stack on bodies and mass res knowing you're protected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-19PGdA3c8

I don't know what's more funny, you thinking that video proves anything or you blaming your inability to burst a group on AOE caps.

For the record I'm in favor of AOE caps being totally removed lol. I also think this meta is stupid, more stupid than the last.

I'm not saying manoekin's group would've won if aoe caps removed, but you have to admit the fact that you had about 20-24 players vs 10 gave you a huge advantage because of them. They got a pretty good bomb on your group as you ran straight into their ults but only a few died. I'm not saying aoe caps saved you from wiping but they sure did help quite a bit in that scenario.

I think Mano said that the only downside is pug blobs will die even faster because they potato together, but I mean they have to learn sometime right? All it will force larger organized groups to do is play a bit smarter and be more careful about groups of all sizes.

I do agree with you though about how the way group play has been, it's basically destro ult and negates. As you said you don't even need prox det anymore, just run at people with a traveling insanely high damage ultimate. I don't see it changing unless destro ult is nerfed along with negate. I would even settle with the eye of the storm morph being changed to not travelwith the player. At least it will force you to think of good placement and not just gap close spamming people with it.

zyk · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

AOE caps don't matter. I've now seen the light. Why shouldn't you just be able to potato run through ults? Or stack on bodies and mass res knowing you're protected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-19PGdA3c8

I don't know what's more funny, you thinking that video proves anything or you blaming your inability to burst a group on AOE caps.

For the record I'm in favor of AOE caps being totally removed lol. I also think this meta is stupid, more stupid than the last.

It seems that the Venatus burst killed five of six taking full damage, so perhaps the AE cap may be relevant in that clip.

Satiar · December 2016

Ernest145 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

AOE caps don't matter. I've now seen the light. Why shouldn't you just be able to potato run through ults? Or stack on bodies and mass res knowing you're protected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-19PGdA3c8

I don't know what's more funny, you thinking that video proves anything or you blaming your inability to burst a group on AOE caps.

For the record I'm in favor of AOE caps being totally removed lol. I also think this meta is stupid, more stupid than the last.

I'm not saying manoekin's group would've won if aoe caps removed, but you have to admit the fact that you had about 20-24 players vs 10 gave you a huge advantage because of them. They got a pretty good bomb on your group as you ran straight into their ults but only a few died. I'm not saying aoe caps saved you from wiping but they sure did help quite a bit in that scenario.

I think Mano said that the only downside is pug blobs will die even faster because they potato together, but I mean they have to learn sometime right? All it will force larger organized groups to do is play a bit smarter and be more careful about groups of all sizes.

I do agree with you though about how the way group play has been, it's basically destro ult and negates. As you said you don't even need prox det anymore, just run at people with a traveling insanely high damage ultimate. I don't see it changing unless destro ult is nerfed along with negate. I would even settle with the eye of the storm morph being changed to not travelwith the player. At least it will force you to think of good placement and not just gap close spamming people with it.

I wasn't there for that fight, I looked at it and I didn't even see destro ults hitting more than 10 at a time for more than a single second of that fight. Most of the raid just rolled immediately through the ults, and then even if you get them back on target you've missed your big burst potential. I guarantee you, if we had been literally stacked in a ball, relying on AOE caps to save us, that bomb would have literally annihilated us in half a second.

I find the AOE cap argument frustrating because we test this ***. Running VE raids again is brand new, and we experiment with damage, what can we take and not take. Certain old spots and strats don't work because properly specced burst is so high you will literally just die when you move the group there. Hell, I've even stood my group in stacks to see if piling up mitigation vs high DPS bombers like Havoc works (hint, it doesnt). I've been decimated by good bombs in bad spots, and I've been able to burst groups of 30+ with literally two people. Damage is high. It goes through block. Offense has vastly outstripped defense.

If Mano wants to use a video as proof, he needs to use one that actually shows AOE caps in effect.

Anyways. I don't even dislike the idea of removing AOE caps. But this change just feeds into the mentality of MOOR DAMAGE, and I'd rather ZoS not get praise for continuing down this stupid path of escalating DPS.

EDIT: Like, I am fully confident one VD specced Nightblade can kill 40 stacked players with one bomb. AOE caps are a great talking point but they don't mean anything anymore

Ernest145 · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Ernest145 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

AOE caps don't matter. I've now seen the light. Why shouldn't you just be able to potato run through ults? Or stack on bodies and mass res knowing you're protected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-19PGdA3c8

I don't know what's more funny, you thinking that video proves anything or you blaming your inability to burst a group on AOE caps.

For the record I'm in favor of AOE caps being totally removed lol. I also think this meta is stupid, more stupid than the last.

I'm not saying manoekin's group would've won if aoe caps removed, but you have to admit the fact that you had about 20-24 players vs 10 gave you a huge advantage because of them. They got a pretty good bomb on your group as you ran straight into their ults but only a few died. I'm not saying aoe caps saved you from wiping but they sure did help quite a bit in that scenario.

I think Mano said that the only downside is pug blobs will die even faster because they potato together, but I mean they have to learn sometime right? All it will force larger organized groups to do is play a bit smarter and be more careful about groups of all sizes.

I do agree with you though about how the way group play has been, it's basically destro ult and negates. As you said you don't even need prox det anymore, just run at people with a traveling insanely high damage ultimate. I don't see it changing unless destro ult is nerfed along with negate. I would even settle with the eye of the storm morph being changed to not travelwith the player. At least it will force you to think of good placement and not just gap close spamming people with it.

I wasn't there for that fight, I looked at it and I didn't even see destro ults hitting more than 10 at a time for more than a single second of that fight. Most of the raid just rolled immediately through the ults, and then even if you get them back on target you've missed your big burst potential. I guarantee you, if we had been literally stacked in a ball, relying on AOE caps to save us, that bomb would have literally annihilated us in half a second.

I find the AOE cap argument frustrating because we test this ***. Running VE raids again is brand new, and we experiment with damage, what can we take and not take. Certain old spots and strats don't work because properly specced burst is so high you will literally just die when you move the group there. Hell, I've even stood my group in stacks to see if piling up mitigation vs high DPS bombers like Havoc works (hint, it doesnt). I've been decimated by good bombs in bad spots, and I've been able to burst groups of 30+ with literally two people. Damage is high. It goes through block. Offense has vastly outstripped defense.

If Mano wants to use a video as proof, he needs to use one that actually shows AOE caps in effect.

Anyways. I don't even dislike the idea of removing AOE caps. But this change just feeds into the mentality of MOOR DAMAGE, and I'd rather ZoS not get praise for continuing down this stupid path of escalating DPS.

EDIT: Like, I am fully confident one VD specced Nightblade can kill 40 stacked players with one bomb. AOE caps are a great talking point but they don't mean anything anymore

Yeah I agree damage is out of control, but everything is out of control. With the amount of cp we have, gear, and with how zos balances the game anything you decide to do is out of hand. You can make unkillable tanks, heal for insane amounts, have unlimited sustain, have out of control damage. There is no real way to balance the game with how far builds can be pushed.

But yeah you are right bout 1 or 2 nightblades being able to wipe a raid, I've seen that plenty this patch.

arkansas_ESO · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Ernest145 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

AOE caps don't matter. I've now seen the light. Why shouldn't you just be able to potato run through ults? Or stack on bodies and mass res knowing you're protected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-19PGdA3c8

I don't know what's more funny, you thinking that video proves anything or you blaming your inability to burst a group on AOE caps.

For the record I'm in favor of AOE caps being totally removed lol. I also think this meta is stupid, more stupid than the last.

I'm not saying manoekin's group would've won if aoe caps removed, but you have to admit the fact that you had about 20-24 players vs 10 gave you a huge advantage because of them. They got a pretty good bomb on your group as you ran straight into their ults but only a few died. I'm not saying aoe caps saved you from wiping but they sure did help quite a bit in that scenario.

I think Mano said that the only downside is pug blobs will die even faster because they potato together, but I mean they have to learn sometime right? All it will force larger organized groups to do is play a bit smarter and be more careful about groups of all sizes.

I do agree with you though about how the way group play has been, it's basically destro ult and negates. As you said you don't even need prox det anymore, just run at people with a traveling insanely high damage ultimate. I don't see it changing unless destro ult is nerfed along with negate. I would even settle with the eye of the storm morph being changed to not travelwith the player. At least it will force you to think of good placement and not just gap close spamming people with it.

I wasn't there for that fight, I looked at it and I didn't even see destro ults hitting more than 10 at a time for more than a single second of that fight. Most of the raid just rolled immediately through the ults, and then even if you get them back on target you've missed your big burst potential. I guarantee you, if we had been literally stacked in a ball, relying on AOE caps to save us, that bomb would have literally annihilated us in half a second.

I find the AOE cap argument frustrating because we test this ***. Running VE raids again is brand new, and we experiment with damage, what can we take and not take. Certain old spots and strats don't work because properly specced burst is so high you will literally just die when you move the group there. Hell, I've even stood my group in stacks to see if piling up mitigation vs high DPS bombers like Havoc works (hint, it doesnt). I've been decimated by good bombs in bad spots, and I've been able to burst groups of 30+ with literally two people. Damage is high. It goes through block. Offense has vastly outstripped defense.

If Mano wants to use a video as proof, he needs to use one that actually shows AOE caps in effect.

Anyways. I don't even dislike the idea of removing AOE caps. But this change just feeds into the mentality of MOOR DAMAGE, and I'd rather ZoS not get praise for continuing down this stupid path of escalating DPS.

EDIT: Like, I am fully confident one VD specced Nightblade can kill 40 stacked players with one bomb. AOE caps are a great talking point but they don't mean anything anymore

I seriously haven't seen more than ten successful NB bombs since the Dark Brotherhood patch released.

FireCowCommando · December 2016

So ZoS makes some bad choices regarding balance that leads to the PvP community shrinking and all of a sudden in update 13 they relent on AoE caps. Did ZoS seriously sit on the AoE cap issue as a planed failsafe to try to draw players back in?

I really hope this is just me being too tinfoil hat here.

pcar944 · December 2016

well lets just remember that this is just some of the things coming correct?

Lore_lai · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

I've been able to burst groups of 30+ with literally two people.

Yes and sometimes you're able to burst 2 people with 30+. Woo Hooo! Just remember - always, everyone - coordinate ulti drop!!

I'm off topic. IDGAF. Mer-Xmas!

Valencer · December 2016

Well, it's really nice seeing their reasoning on some of the mechanics that are currently in the game. Have to give credit where credit is due

Can't help but think that the reason given for AoE caps being the way they are seems unhealthy for the game. Youre not doing inexperienced players any favors by letting them survive encounters through a mechanic that comes down to sheer luck. They cant learn from that, and it's not a mechanic that they can reliably use to their advantage at any rate... it just promotes the mentality of "okay, I just stood in the middle of 50 other people and survived somehow, so I guess I need to do this more"

Also having trouble understanding this war against "stack on crown" groups, since no guild groups actually literally stack on top of each other anymore. Organised groups move *with* the crown, sure, but if youre trying to remove that playstyle then what exactly is left? This is how group play works.

Yeah, fighting an organised group absolutely sucks when youre not in your own somewhat organised group. Fighting an organised group when youre not organised yourself has never been fun in this game, imo. But sometimes I cant tell whether ZOS themselves want people to do serious group play at all, or not.

I think loosening AoE caps will be a boon to organised groups, which doesnt seem to be ZOS' intention...