Upcoming Patch Notes - Sneak Peak

Manoekin · December 2016

For those that don't go to the general forums:

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:
The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage

The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)

The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)

Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes. (Patch Notes aren't quite done yet, so hang in there for awhile longer)

Enjoy your holidays and please be safe on New Years!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/310623/update-13-sneak-peak-notes#latest

Manoekin · December 2016

No longer permanently in combat please god.

Also those AOE caps.

Kilandros · December 2016

HYPE

DisgracefulMind · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

No longer permanently in combat please god.

Also those AOE caps.

Has the day finally come for all Templars to rejoice and cry in tears of happiness? Will we finally be able to stop jogging from keep to keep?

The suspense.

Kutsuu · December 2016

Much better change for proc sets than I was expecting. This is going to hurt PVE DPS from monster sets where people typically have 75-85% crit chance, but whatever.

frozywozy · December 2016

Alot of great fixes.

But the one regarding proc sets nerf people who use only one while keeping multiple proc sets a viable playstyle. Pretty disappointed. The global cooldown solution was probably too complicated for them to implement in the code.

Astanphaeus · December 2016

Not really that much of a nerf to Proc sets since everyone who isn't stupid has high impen already, but at least it is something...

Joy_Division · December 2016

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

stealthyevil · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

I do believe Rich was quoted as saying that there are still more changes something to proc sets in terms of multiple procs etc. I'm no forum genius so I'm not sure how to quote that. I will hold my breath until I see the notes for those changes.

Derra · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

Satiar · December 2016

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

chaserstorm16909 · December 2016

I hope when the full natch potes are released they address the stamina/magicka imbalances and op heavy armor.

KisoValley · December 2016

Other than proc sets change, this looks promosing. But I have little faith in ZOS, they'll probably *** it up somehow.

Manoekin · December 2016

Yeah The proc set changes are all out of context. I think it's a nice change by itself, and more is needed for certain procs IMO. He did say there are more changes, or implied it. Just off the top of my head, stuff like Viper and Tremor which are essentially guaranteed procs should not have tooltips anywhere in the area of sets that only have a 10% chance or less to proc.

Astanphaeus · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Yeah The proc set changes are all out of context. I think it's a nice change by itself, and more is needed for certain procs IMO. He did say there are more changes, or implied it. Just off the top of my head, stuff like Viper and Tremor which are essentially guaranteed procs should not have tooltips anywhere in the area of sets that only have a 10% chance or less to proc.

Personally, I think they should just make Tremorscale only work when the target is actually taunted (esentially removing it from PvP completely) and then remove pretty much all non-Monster Helm procs from the game or severely tone those ones down. If it there were just MH procs, well, there is a reason no one complains about Skoria.

Manoekin · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

Even more reason to loosen or remove them

I think the change is good in any case though. AOE caps are still affecting the game whether you want to admit it or not. You have to kill someone in the first place to proc a VD, and even then damage is getting spread way outside of VD range. At the very least this helps for groups like I'm usually in where we have to do large amounts of damage because we can't just layer the area with negates to prevent healing.

Publius_Scipio · December 2016

I will hold judgment (as always) until it is live and the changes have had time to settle with the player base. It would seem ZOS has been paying attention and working behind the scenes on stuff, which is a positive. Rich's post is a good sign I'd say. Especially since he mentioned this is only a small tease of what the update will contain.

It would seem that after three years FENGRUSH might just have his vengeance on the zergs!

Satiar · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

Even more reason to loosen or remove them

I think the change is good in any case though. AOE caps are still affecting the game whether you want to admit it or not. You have to kill someone in the first place to proc a VD, and even then damage is getting spread way outside of VD range. At the very least this helps for groups like I'm usually in where we have to do large amounts of damage because we can't just layer the area with negates to prevent healing.

Stacking has been more harmful to your health than spreading for several patches, and then add destro ult on top. If anyone actually needs help bursting groups these days I'm going to laugh at them because you literally need 1-2 (2 max) high damage nightblades.

If anything, damage is so high we need mitigation returned to the game.

Joy_Division · December 2016

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

Derra · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

It´s kinda funny - i have way more issue fighting people with selenes than i have with viper + tremor. Tremor only being really annoying because of the insane snare on it.

I do think ilambris and grothdarr needed readjustment in pve aswell. They do provide up to 10% of a players total raiddps and are the main reasons (besides destroult) why stamina builds are no longer considered into trial groups.
Which is also what leads me to believe why they changed it for pvp and pve and meant to change it for both.

Edit: I 100% agree viper is still too good of a set because of it´s 100% proccchance.

manny254 · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

Satiar · December 2016

manny254 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

If you play in a group that can afford to have multiple players wear VD then you are probably in a group that benefits from AoE caps.

I do this in 6-8mans.

#zerg?

Edit: I don't rly care about the change, I iust think its stupid because useless. Between the removal of barrier, the addition of VD, a number of extremely high SP sets and destro ult, I *want* people to stack because I can melt them. I can't do that as easily if they're all spread. I don't even need prox det.

So sure, keep working on aoe caps. It's just kinda... silly at this point, and I honestly don't know what to say to those who look at this meta and think: "we need more aoe burst!"

Satiar · December 2016

An intelligent change would be removing aoe caps and then drastically nerfing aoe damage to the point that class ultimates that arent negate are useful again.

Manoekin · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

Even more reason to loosen or remove them

I think the change is good in any case though. AOE caps are still affecting the game whether you want to admit it or not. You have to kill someone in the first place to proc a VD, and even then damage is getting spread way outside of VD range. At the very least this helps for groups like I'm usually in where we have to do large amounts of damage because we can't just layer the area with negates to prevent healing.

Stacking has been more harmful to your health than spreading for several patches, and then add destro ult on top. If anyone actually needs help bursting groups these days I'm going to laugh at them because you literally need 1-2 (2 max) high damage nightblades.

If anything, damage is so high we need mitigation returned to the game.

No one is spread enough in the sense you are trying to talk about unless they are doing it to not all die to a bomb. The only people stacking to get hit by VD are pugs or groups caught completely unaware. In a group v group fight AOE caps are still taking place because they are loosely spread yet AOE's are hitting more than 6 players (provided both or one of the groups are large enough). I've done my fair share of bombing this patch, and even with multiple destro's from min/maxed damage magblades/sorcs there are instances in which you will literally kill only a handful of players at best even with VD. IMO this change helps in those instances while not generally affecting the others. The only thing this truly negatively impacts is new players getting killed quicker because they don't know how to not stack with the pug herd or move through breaches at all.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

I'm just happy they are trying something instead of leaving us in the dark another year . Rich also said this is just a sneak peak so other fixes may be in there .

Satiar · December 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lol because they still think aoe caps mean something, they haven't since VD was released.

Even more reason to loosen or remove them

I think the change is good in any case though. AOE caps are still affecting the game whether you want to admit it or not. You have to kill someone in the first place to proc a VD, and even then damage is getting spread way outside of VD range. At the very least this helps for groups like I'm usually in where we have to do large amounts of damage because we can't just layer the area with negates to prevent healing.

Stacking has been more harmful to your health than spreading for several patches, and then add destro ult on top. If anyone actually needs help bursting groups these days I'm going to laugh at them because you literally need 1-2 (2 max) high damage nightblades.

If anything, damage is so high we need mitigation returned to the game.

No one is spread enough in the sense you are trying to talk about unless they are doing it to not all die to a bomb. The only people stacking to get hit by VD are pugs or groups caught completely unaware. In a group v group fight AOE caps are still taking place because they are loosely spread yet AOE's are hitting more than 6 players (provided both or one of the groups are large enough). I've done my fair share of bombing this patch, and even with multiple destro's from min/maxed damage magblades/sorcs there are instances in which you will literally kill only a handful of players at best even with VD. IMO this change helps in those instances while not generally affecting the others. The only thing this truly negatively impacts is new players getting killed quicker because they don't know how to not stack with the pug herd or move through breaches at all.

I'm really dubious about pumping up damage further in the highest damage meta in ESO history. I'm not even min maxed , just some purples with a defensive 2-piece and I'm walking around critting 12ks in a huge radius, through block. It rly shouldn't be that easy

stealthyevil · December 2016

I feel like people are jumping the gun here...These are only a few changes of a full patch note list still to come. Things can still be drastically changed, lets not form an opinion based on a sneak peek please. For once I feel like there is a glimmer of hope or at least some common sense going into decisions regarding PvP

Joy_Division · December 2016

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

It´s kinda funny - i have way more issue fighting people with selenes than i have with viper + tremor. Tremor only being really annoying because of the insane snare on it.

I do think ilambris and grothdarr needed readjustment in pve aswell. They do provide up to 10% of a players total raiddps and are the main reasons (besides destroult) why stamina builds are no longer considered into trial groups.
Which is also what leads me to believe why they changed it for pvp and pve and meant to change it for both.

Edit: I 100% agree viper is still too good of a set because of it´s 100% proccchance.

SO you think it's a good thing to nerf marginal sets like Overwhelming Surge, the Dwemer Spider Heal, Sverra's Scales, etc. because you have issues fighting people with Selene's? GG Zos.

I guess our expectations of ZoS has sunk so much that we are now basically applauded them for not addressing actual specific problems like Grothdar doing too much DPS in trials.

I dont blame PvE players one bit for their frustrations over the PvP community. We cry and complain whenever ZoS changes the gear or raised VR ranks such that we had to go farm new gear and rendered obsolete our gold gear. Now that the same thing is happening to PvE players and they have to redo their builds for a specific PvP balance concern, our attitude is "git gud proc scrub."

Meanwhile we can still get hit with multiple proc sets at the same time and Viper still procs every 4 seconds.

Go ahead and applaud this blanket, lazy solution. I will do nothing of the sort and remain critical of ZoS until they actually address the specific things that are balance issues .

Cinbri · December 2016

I actually never had serious problems against stacked procsets, but problems against double procs and gankers with procsets as current invisibility mechanic is stupid, in every fight you will be stunned by attack from invis.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

It´s kinda funny - i have way more issue fighting people with selenes than i have with viper + tremor. Tremor only being really annoying because of the insane snare on it.

I do think ilambris and grothdarr needed readjustment in pve aswell. They do provide up to 10% of a players total raiddps and are the main reasons (besides destroult) why stamina builds are no longer considered into trial groups.
Which is also what leads me to believe why they changed it for pvp and pve and meant to change it for both.

Edit: I 100% agree viper is still too good of a set because of it´s 100% proccchance.

SO you think it's a good thing to nerf marginal sets like Overwhelming Surge, the Dwemer Spider Heal, Sverra's Scales, etc. because you have issues fighting people with Selene's? GG Zos..

One thing I know for sure - if Engine would be overhauled to grant only magicka and stamina procs, it would be huge buff to set, current HP restore is already useless(especially in compare to pre-IC) and making something useless even more useless won't make it even worse. Overall nerf for crit of procsets automatically means buff of non-rng based sets and those which couldnt proc, like Engine, Bloodspawn, Slimecraw, etc. And this is good.
Still wonder if proc-based add-summon sets like Morkuldin and rest will be affected by it; if not - that is buff for pets' sets. @ZOS_RichLambert answer us about those sets please

Yet we don't know anything about other sets rebalancing beside that some sets will be rebalanced.

Derra · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sorry, not a fan of the proc set changes.

Still can get hit with multiple procs. Viper still way too good. PvE changes unnessary and harmful. Treats all the procs set, good and bad, the same making the marginal ones useless. It's lazy, unimaginative, borad-brushed, and should not be applauded.

I do like the rest of the changes (call me when i can mount after 6 seconds though). As much as I say the AoE CAP thing is two years too late, fix the destro ult first.

If you think about it - apart from completely altering what the item does (ie converting it to a dot) - it was the only thing they could to to prevent things like 9k skoria 12k selenes or 10k velidreth hits from happening.

I think on top of the nocrit some sets should be converted into dots (mainly viper tremorscale selenes).

They could have done quite a few things actually. Make this change a part of Battlespirit for one.

Also, I don;t have an issue with getting hit with those, my issues was gettting hit with them at the same time and only two specific proc sets, Viper and Tremorscale.

It´s kinda funny - i have way more issue fighting people with selenes than i have with viper + tremor. Tremor only being really annoying because of the insane snare on it.

I do think ilambris and grothdarr needed readjustment in pve aswell. They do provide up to 10% of a players total raiddps and are the main reasons (besides destroult) why stamina builds are no longer considered into trial groups.
Which is also what leads me to believe why they changed it for pvp and pve and meant to change it for both.

Edit: I 100% agree viper is still too good of a set because of it´s 100% proccchance.

SO you think it's a good thing to nerf marginal sets like Overwhelming Surge, the Dwemer Spider Heal, Sverra's Scales, etc. because you have issues fighting people with Selene's? GG Zos.

I guess our expectations of ZoS has sunk so much that we are now basically applauded them for not addressing actual specific problems like Grothdar doing too much DPS in trials.

I dont blame PvE players one bit for their frustrations over the PvP community. We cry and complain whenever ZoS changes the gear or raised VR ranks such that we had to go farm new gear and rendered obsolete our gold gear. Now that the same thing is happening to PvE players and they have to redo their builds for a specific PvP balance concern, our attitude is "git gud proc scrub."

Meanwhile we can still get hit with multiple proc sets at the same time and Viper still procs every 4 seconds.

Go ahead and applaud this blanket, lazy solution. I will do nothing of the sort and remain critical of ZoS until they actually address the specific things that are balance issues .

Can you please stick to one argument instead of bringing new ones in every post?

Choose one you want to discuss and i´ll try to formulate a reply on that one.

On the new brought up sets: I do think it´s acceptable to nerf syvarra overwhelming and whatever else because they´re currently basically irrelevant and require major redesigning to be competetive with or without the nerf. Their usability does not change. You´re using an underperforming set either way.

PainfulFAFA · December 2016

Wait what? Are my eyes reading this right? Changes to AoE Caps!?!?After two years?
Finally a step in the right direction! I might be staying a little longer afterall!