Do you want group damage to return?

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

1.People are still getting kicked from random queues simply because they are low level and "seem" to have low damage....

Just leveled a new char thanks to the cake, used group finder repeatedly, never happened. Would have happened with Group Damage which would have set up "standards".

Vangy wrote: »

2.People are still leaving the instant they see someone playing an unorthodox build that may not be performing to certain standards.

Didn't happen. Not really related to Group Damage anyway.

Vangy wrote: »

3.Elitists still run rampant in group finder even without GD.

Didn't meet any. Didn't have problems. Disagree with you. Group Finder would have created new elitists.

Vangy wrote: »

3.Most top guilds still require you to link FTC after each boss fight or they wont even bring you along let alone let you into their guild. These guilds still dominate top leader board positions on their mains and alts leaving almost 0 space for anyone not in them to get into the leaderboards.

Even I got into the SO leaderboards last week. Top guilds don't take all the spots.
It's normal for top guilds to check DPS.

Vangy wrote: »

What people need to realise is that *** will be *** with or without GD. The current qualms with groupfinder is living proof...

The withdrawal of Group Damage made the Group Finder a nice tool to use again. Every now and then you'll have a bad experience but most of the time you'll meet and play with nice people.

Vangy · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

1.People are still getting kicked from random queues simply because they are low level and "seem" to have low damage....

Just leveled a new char thanks to the cake, used group finder repeatedly, never happened. Would have happened with Group Damage which would have set up "standards".

Vangy wrote: »

2.People are still leaving the instant they see someone playing an unorthodox build that may not be performing to certain standards.

Didn't happen. Not really related to Group Damage anyway.

Vangy wrote: »

3.Elitists still run rampant in group finder even without GD.

Didn't meet any. Didn't have problems. Disagree with you. Group Finder would have created new elitists.

Vangy wrote: »

3.Most top guilds still require you to link FTC after each boss fight or they wont even bring you along let alone let you into their guild. These guilds still dominate top leader board positions on their mains and alts leaving almost 0 space for anyone not in them to get into the leaderboards.

Even I got into the SO leaderboards last week. Top guilds don't take all the spots.
It's normal for top guilds to check DPS.

Vangy wrote: »

What people need to realise is that *** will be *** with or without GD. The current qualms with groupfinder is living proof...

The withdrawal of Group Damage made the Group Finder a nice tool to use again. Every now and then you'll have a bad experience but most of the time you'll meet and play with nice people.

So your counter arguments to all those forum posts about group finders with people leaving and being Assy is along these lines;

1. I didn't get robbed ever, so no one else in the world got robbed. Didn't happen to me. So yippee Kay yaaay all those news papers are lying. Can be applied to ***, domestic abuse etc etc.

2. Even with group finder nice people were around and they will still be around even with the removal of group finder.

I've argued with you before but you've already proved yourself to be without reason. Go take a read in general discussion. There's enough posts about group finder leavers/kickers/noobs/snobs. So thyre all lying or exaggerating yes? Group finder has ticked off so many people that they've created multiple threads (some more than 8 pages long) but we should ignore all that because you have the best luck in the world with groups yes? GD didnt do anything to contribute to any of the problems listed here;

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/252028/we-absolutely-need-a-vote-kick-ability-for-group-finder

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256800/constructive-feedback-and-suggestions-gathering-thread-to-improve-the-group-finder-tool-devs

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236055/these-are-the-type-of-people-you-get-when-you-use-the-group-finder

Literally 100s of comments on various reasons that may/may have not been made worse/better by group damage. People asking for vote kick function, people only wanting v16 members etc etc etc. Nothing would have changed with or without GD. There's many more but Im afraid I dont have the time to link them all.

Again, asses will be assess and nice people will be nice people. Group finder won't change someone's character. A nice/neutral person isn't going to suddenly change their personality with group finder around. It's the same as saying anyone who owns a gun is going to go on a killing spree. Most people just use it for their own protection.

Also lets not forget, group finder was around quite a while before it became a thing on the forums. Not a single post about how people were getting kicked because of it. Suddenly some guy posts about it and then all the "what if-ers" went batshit crazy with oooh what if someone kicks me for low dps oooh what if people abuse it blah blah. Essentially nothing changed before and after GD. People still get kicked. People still leave. People still be ass hats. Top guilds still require regular posting of FTC. Those elitist groups forming in zone still ask you to post FTC if party is wiping. Some poor noob still gona get kicked. No evidence/proof on frequency of how often one gets a good group or how often one gets a bad group or any kind of statistics on elitists kicking etc etc. EVERYTHING anyone says against group finder is just based on PURE speculation. Whether it should have been removed or not was just simply based on the vision ZOS has for the game. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. Anything anyone says in response is moot because ZOS already stated their reasons for removing it. It was along the lines of being against their vision and that they too, were "afraid" of people abusing it. Nothing concrete and group finder still broken as crap. If they implement a group vote kick option, which I feel may come, things are going to be just as bad.

This is where I stop debating this matter because there is no point. What's done is done. GD is gone and it wont come back.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

So your counter arguments to all those forum posts about group finders with people leaving and being Assy is along these lines;

.../... [Big snip]

This is where I stop debating this matter because there is no point. What's done is done. GD is gone and it wont come back.

Are people violented everyday in this world ? Yes. Does that mean every street is covered in blood and everyone should stay at home and no go out unless armed to the teeth ? NO !

Using Group Finder will *sometimes* lead "normal/casual" players to unpleasant happenings (kicks, etc...) BUT most people are nice and most groups made via group finder will be fine, humanly speaking. It will probably be slower / less efficient than with guildies, but you'll complete the task in a nice atmosphere.

That was the whole point of my post : to counterweight yours, which makes group finder look like a horrible tool to use. It's not. Yes, you'll find dozens of posts about people complaining about their bad experience. Just like the newspapers are full of news of people being robbed/ra*ed/killed/kidnapped/whatever. That doesn't prevent anyone from going out the next morning and live a perfectly normal life. Newpapers don't report about "normal lives". Noone will make a post here about a "normally nice group finder pledge".

- Normal/Casual people should definitely NOT be afraid of using Group Finder.
- People with expectations (DPS, gear, speed, whatever) should definitely avoid using it and stick to their guildies and contacts.

I don't care about Group Damage anymore, since it's out of the way.

Function · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

1.People are still getting kicked from random queues simply because they are low level and "seem" to have low damage....

Just leveled a new char thanks to the cake, used group finder repeatedly, never happened. Would have happened with Group Damage which would have set up "standards".

Vangy wrote: »

2.People are still leaving the instant they see someone playing an unorthodox build that may not be performing to certain standards.

Didn't happen. Not really related to Group Damage anyway.

Vangy wrote: »

3.Elitists still run rampant in group finder even without GD.

Didn't meet any. Didn't have problems. Disagree with you. Group Finder would have created new elitists.

Vangy wrote: »

3.Most top guilds still require you to link FTC after each boss fight or they wont even bring you along let alone let you into their guild. These guilds still dominate top leader board positions on their mains and alts leaving almost 0 space for anyone not in them to get into the leaderboards.

Even I got into the SO leaderboards last week. Top guilds don't take all the spots.
It's normal for top guilds to check DPS.

Vangy wrote: »

What people need to realise is that *** will be *** with or without GD. The current qualms with groupfinder is living proof...

The withdrawal of Group Damage made the Group Finder a nice tool to use again. Every now and then you'll have a bad experience but most of the time you'll meet and play with nice people.

So your counter arguments to all those forum posts about group finders with people leaving and being Assy is along these lines;

1. I didn't get robbed ever, so no one else in the world got robbed. Didn't happen to me. So yippee Kay yaaay all those news papers are lying. Can be applied to ***, domestic abuse etc etc.

2. Even with group finder nice people were around and they will still be around even with the removal of group finder.

I've argued with you before but you've already proved yourself to be without reason. Go take a read in general discussion. There's enough posts about group finder leavers/kickers/noobs/snobs. So thyre all lying or exaggerating yes? Group finder has ticked off so many people that they've created multiple threads (some more than 8 pages long) but we should ignore all that because you have the best luck in the world with groups yes? GD didnt do anything to contribute to any of the problems listed here;

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/252028/we-absolutely-need-a-vote-kick-ability-for-group-finder

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256800/constructive-feedback-and-suggestions-gathering-thread-to-improve-the-group-finder-tool-devs

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236055/these-are-the-type-of-people-you-get-when-you-use-the-group-finder

Literally 100s of comments on various reasons that may/may have not been made worse/better by group damage. People asking for vote kick function, people only wanting v16 members etc etc etc. Nothing would have changed with or without GD. There's many more but Im afraid I dont have the time to link them all.

Again, asses will be assess and nice people will be nice people. Group finder won't change someone's character. A nice/neutral person isn't going to suddenly change their personality with group finder around. It's the same as saying anyone who owns a gun is going to go on a killing spree. Most people just use it for their own protection.

Also lets not forget, group finder was around quite a while before it became a thing on the forums. Not a single post about how people were getting kicked because of it. Suddenly some guy posts about it and then all the "what if-ers" went batshit crazy with oooh what if someone kicks me for low dps oooh what if people abuse it blah blah. Essentially nothing changed before and after GD. People still get kicked. People still leave. People still be ass hats. Top guilds still require regular posting of FTC. Those elitist groups forming in zone still ask you to post FTC if party is wiping. Some poor noob still gona get kicked. No evidence/proof on frequency of how often one gets a good group or how often one gets a bad group or any kind of statistics on elitists kicking etc etc. EVERYTHING anyone says against group finder is just based on PURE speculation. Whether it should have been removed or not was just simply based on the vision ZOS has for the game. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. Anything anyone says in response is moot because ZOS already stated their reasons for removing it. It was along the lines of being against their vision and that they too, were "afraid" of people abusing it. Nothing concrete and group finder still broken as crap. If they implement a group vote kick option, which I feel may come, things are going to be just as bad.

This is where I stop debating this matter because there is no point. What's done is done. GD is gone and it wont come back.

^ What he said

People put the blame on group damage for "elitism" in groups even though it existed well before, and still exists after. The problem wasn't the addon, it is people. Group damage was a hugely beneficial tool that allowed people to monitor their damage compared to others in real time and allowed many to improve themselves.. I am still sad that is gone and hope that it makes a return.

KallistaBlackheart · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

.....
I've argued with you before but you've already proved yourself to be without reason.

........

Also lets not forget, group finder was around quite a while before it became a thing on the forums. Not a single post about how people were getting kicked because of it. Suddenly some guy posts about it and then all the "what if-ers" went batshit crazy with oooh what if someone kicks me for low dps oooh what if people abuse it blah blah.
.........

(cut for brevity)

to the first part, yes. several people have noticed this....

to elaborate on the second part. said person created a forum account on the same day they posted the thread, have never posted again or had any activity since.....

the thread for reference.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241251/spy-addon-group-damage/p1

i have always found this more than slightly suspicious....

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

.....
I've argued with you before but you've already proved yourself to be without reason.

........

Also lets not forget, group finder was around quite a while before it became a thing on the forums. Not a single post about how people were getting kicked because of it. Suddenly some guy posts about it and then all the "what if-ers" went batshit crazy with oooh what if someone kicks me for low dps oooh what if people abuse it blah blah.
.........

(cut for brevity)

to the first part, yes. several people have noticed this....

to elaborate on the second part. said person created a forum account on the same day they posted the thread, have never posted again or had any activity since.....

the thread for reference.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241251/spy-addon-group-damage/p1

i have always found this more than slightly suspicious....

Have you really run out of arguments soooo badly that you need to resort to personals attacks, anonymous allies ("several people think like me...") to back them up, and even vague conspiracy theories ???

Here are the FACTS : Group Damage was first released on December 20th 2015. First thread about it appeared on January 14th 2016. That's 3,5 weeks, in the middle of which was the Christmas/New Year Season, 2 weeks during which most people cannot play at all. If that's what you call "quite a while", we don't have the same understanding of "quite a while". That's where being fact-based and precise helps a lot.

As to the person who originally mentioned it on these forums first, where's the problem if it is their only contribution ? What is suspicious in a person coming here to ask how to disable it - but has no intention to participate in the forum otherwise ?

Be specific when you accuse and start spreading rumours.

Vangy · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

.....
I've argued with you before but you've already proved yourself to be without reason.

........

Also lets not forget, group finder was around quite a while before it became a thing on the forums. Not a single post about how people were getting kicked because of it. Suddenly some guy posts about it and then all the "what if-ers" went batshit crazy with oooh what if someone kicks me for low dps oooh what if people abuse it blah blah.
.........

(cut for brevity)

to the first part, yes. several people have noticed this....

to elaborate on the second part. said person created a forum account on the same day they posted the thread, have never posted again or had any activity since.....

the thread for reference.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241251/spy-addon-group-damage/p1

i have always found this more than slightly suspicious....

Have you really run out of arguments soooo badly that you need to resort to personals attacks, anonymous allies ("several people think like me...") to back them up, and even vague conspiracy theories ???

Here are the FACTS : Group Damage was first released on December 20th 2015. First thread about it appeared on January 14th 2016. That's 3,5 weeks, in the middle of which was the Christmas/New Year Season, 2 weeks during which most people cannot play at all. If that's what you call "quite a while", we don't have the same understanding of "quite a while". That's where being fact-based and precise helps a lot.

As to the person who originally mentioned it on these forums first, where's the problem if it is their only contribution ? What is suspicious in a person coming here to ask how to disable it - but has no intention to participate in the forum otherwise ?

Be specific when you accuse and start spreading rumours.

Since we are on facts;

1. Group damage beta ver 0.8 was released on esoui by @coolmodi on Dec 19th 2015 at 8.39 pm. Ver 0.8..... 0.8..... Anyway kudos to all the effort man @coolmodi
2. Yup GD is dead now @KallistaBlackheart so no pt arguing anymore. Send me a pm in game instead haha. Same as forum account ID. ( @Vangy )

rokrdt05 · April 2016

The add-on still calculates the % of damage you did compared to our group to mobs.

For example, the typical group set up in a 4 man is 1 tank 1 healer and 2 dps... you can get a feel for how the other dps and yourself are doing when it tells you the % of damage you did. Let's say you did 60% of the damage as a dps... that means 40% of the damage was split between the tank/healer/and other dps...

So for those of you who want it can still reasonably use it... you just won't be able to see actual parses unless they link it via another dps addon.

Vangy · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

The add-on still calculates the % of damage you did compared to our group to mobs.

For example, the typical group set up in a 4 man is 1 tank 1 healer and 2 dps... you can get a feel for how the other dps and yourself are doing when it tells you the % of damage you did. Let's say you did 60% of the damage as a dps... that means 40% of the damage was split between the tank/healer/and other dps...

So for those of you who want it can still reasonably use it... you just won't be able to see actual parses unless they link it via another dps addon.

Correct. That is one of the ways to go about it.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Here are the FACTS : Group Damage was first released on December 20th 2015.

1. Group damage beta ver 0.8 was released on esoui by @coolmodi on Dec 19th 2015 at 8.39 pm.

That's Dec 20th 2015 3.39am GMT.
Facts man, facts.

Vangy · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Here are the FACTS : Group Damage was first released on December 20th 2015.

1. Group damage beta ver 0.8 was released on esoui by @coolmodi on Dec 19th 2015 at 8.39 pm.

That's Dec 20th 2015 3.39am GMT.
Facts man, facts.

Sure sure. Dec 19th dec 20th, whatever you say

(Don't forget time zones! Gmt+8 vs est for example!)
Although I do believe the point I was trying to make was missed.(ver 0.8 beta)

Barlthump · April 2016

I am a fierce lover of GD, Used to be a time when I could at least see how well the group was doing so I could help people with their builds and was totally against it being removed.

Vangy · April 2016

Barlthump wrote: »

I am a fierce lover of GD, Used to be a time when I could at least see how well the group was doing so I could help people with their builds and was totally against it being removed.

I remember your forum Id from those threads @Barlthump . Send a tell to @Vangy if you are on PC.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Here are the FACTS : Group Damage was first released on December 20th 2015.

1. Group damage beta ver 0.8 was released on esoui by @coolmodi on Dec 19th 2015 at 8.39 pm.

That's Dec 20th 2015 3.39am GMT.
Facts man, facts.

Sure sure. Dec 19th dec 20th, whatever you say (Don't forget time zones! Gmt+8 vs est for example!)

That's why using GMT from the start was correct. When you have to be careful about time zones, you simply use GMT. I know it hurts, but dec 20th was correct.

Vangy wrote: »

Although I do believe the point I was trying to make was missed.

Believe me, it doesn't matter at all.

Vangy · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Here are the FACTS : Group Damage was first released on December 20th 2015.

1. Group damage beta ver 0.8 was released on esoui by @coolmodi on Dec 19th 2015 at 8.39 pm.

That's Dec 20th 2015 3.39am GMT.
Facts man, facts.

Sure sure. Dec 19th dec 20th, whatever you say (Don't forget time zones! Gmt+8 vs est for example!)

That's why using GMT from the start was correct. When you have to be careful about time zones, you simply use GMT. I know it hurts, but dec 20th was correct.

Vangy wrote: »

Although I do believe the point I was trying to make was missed.

Believe me, it doesn't matter at all.

Sure sure. Whatever you say

Barlthump · April 2016

Omg vangy! Thanks man!!!! It's what I always wanted! Kudos to you man.

Vangy · April 2016

Barlthump wrote: »

Omg vangy! Thanks man!!!! It's what I always wanted! Kudos to you man.

Enjoy

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Vangy · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

Sure, sure. Whatever you say

Vangy · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

Sure, sure. Whatever you say

Yeahhhh now you're getting it!

timidobserver · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

If there is an alternative you should not even be hinting about it. You've probably put a few of the anti-gd people into a frothing rage by even hinting lol.

Shunravi · April 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

If there is an alternative you should not even be hinting about it. You've probably put a few of the anti-gd people into a frothing rage by even hinting lol.

Dont talk about him talking about it! That will make things worse!

timidobserver · April 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

If there is an alternative you should not even be hinting about it. You've probably put a few of the anti-gd people into a frothing rage by even hinting lol.

Dont talk about him talking about it! That will make things worse!

indeed.

Vangy · April 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

If there is an alternative you should not even be hinting about it. You've probably put a few of the anti-gd people into a frothing rage by even hinting lol.

But but... There is no alternative. I just gave barl some advice that's all

Also lol at the bolded part. I can imagine that in my head right now. It will make me sleep so sound tonight that image hahahahaha.

timidobserver wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Be careful guys, if it spreads, there will be action again. Keep it for yourself ;-)

Group damage is dead! As you already pointed out. I just gave barl some tips thats all!

If there is an alternative you should not even be hinting about it. You've probably put a few of the anti-gd people into a frothing rage by even hinting lol.

Dont talk about him talking about it! That will make things worse!

indeed.

*hides under rock*

Techkey1 · November 2016

Personally I like sharing battle info and there are many people who don't like it (hey that could be the name of the app - Battle Info). However I do agree that many should not be subject to the "get kicked " because the DPS is low and not where the party/group thinks it should be. And at the same time since in ESO you can be what you want, hybrids are seen all the time.

But if something like that is going to succeed then there would have to be an addon/option to show much more information than just the norm where ironically no matter what role you are people tend to focus specifically on dps.

You would need damage taken, dealt, dps, overall damage of one person, overall group damage, cause of damage: ( CC vs melee, vs magic) to let people know if you were standing in areas too long etc, healing received, HPS, overall group heals, taunts, interrupts, critical received, critical dealt, and shields. Similar to Fumaheasyrecout in WOW which was simple and customizable. Of course it would have to be more advanced than Fumah for today. The image is what I wanted to show but you can show what ever you want.

All of this can be shown live easily and after bosses on a player stat popup page for even more detail to help players become better and know what to do for bosses, dungeons, delves, trials, etc.

This way you would know what the issue is (if there is one). It could be bad healing, bad tanking, or bad dps, someone could be taking too much cc by standing in bad areas/spots, if could even be that the whole group sucks lol, but the main thing is, keep it friendly and keep it fun and be willing to help and ask for help if you need it also.

With this much info one could know who to help and what needs to be tweaked for success.

Cherryblossom · November 2016

I truly don't understand the issue, most MMO games have some sort of Group Damage Meter, the majority of them have bigger populations of players than this game, how is it they survive!

I always hear the dreaded "Elitest" phrase, which doesn't really have any real meaning behind it, if a player is bad, it's normally fairly noticeable, a healer that doesn't heal, a tank that doesn't taunt, a player that stands in Red, what you never know is that is that the dps is just relying on light attack and one skill, all you know is that things are not dying that quick.
If a healer is not healing you can tell them to use heals, if a tank is taunting you can tell them to taunt. But if you have one DPS doing 19K dps and the other doing 5K, how can you ever help this DPS! Will they ever know that they are not doing well, they are just being carried!