Do you want group damage to return?

KallistaBlackheart

coolmodi wrote: »

People have NO right to play how they like and stay bad when playing in a team. You also have no right to be in a workgroup and let the others do all the work. That's just pure egosim, those people are the a problem, not the "elitist" who kick bad people.

Edit: Again, this doesn't mean all bad people need to be kicked, even though you love to make me look like I write that all the time. But just because you use a LFG tool doesn't mean you can do whatever you want and the others HAVE to accept you...
And in other cases this shouldn't be a concern at all.

agree.
as to the second part..... do not fret this will also be twisted.....

anitajoneb17_ESO

coolmodi wrote: »

If the other 3 don't want to play with you, they shouldn't have to. If a raid leader doesn't want you, just gtfo. That's how the world works, you have to do your part for the team, if the team doesn't want you you're out.

People have NO right to play how they like and stay bad when playing in a team. You also have no right to be in a workgroup and let the others do all the work. That's just pure egosim, those people are the a problem, not the "elitist" who kick bad people.

We already knew that you don't like "bad players", whatever that means.

In this case, half of the player base doesn't want your addon, and ZOS, the "raid leader", doesn't want your addon.

If people don't want your addon, they should not be forced to use it. Which they would, with or without an opt-in option.

GTFO.

(That's how the world works).


.

Mr.Hmm

I have met alot of people in-game when the addon was allowed, all of them nearly kicked the lowest DPS member(not the healer) just because their dps sucked.

I am sorry but while I like the DPS addon, if this will keep happening then I dont see much hope for this addon.

NerfPlease

YES!!!

Burns

It's sad to me that this same argument is still going on 15 years later.

S'yn

Group damage is a tool. Like any tool, the output is ultimately the result of how that tool is used. Perhaps I'm fool, but I've been overwhelmingly impressed by the ESO community, even when they are murdering me in PVP. A group damage tool, IMHO, needs to have three categories to be most useful:

1. DPS- This is a primary concern for many, but not all players. If someone else, especially the same class, is doing overwhelmingly more damage than me, I view this as an opportunity to ask bout their build/gear/rotation so that I might improve.

2. Healing done- This is an oft neglected component, but really important for those of us who contribute by keeping those glass cannons upright. A great healer might do ZERO DPS, but if no one dies are they really "bad" for filling their chosen role? Healers may want to compare notes during trials just like DPS to find that sweet spot between sustainability and burst heals.

3. Damage Taken/Mitigation- The mark of a good tank is being able to take one on the chin without coughing out their liver every time they get hit. I've seen effective tanks with 30k HP and others with over 50k HP! Absorbing the big hits is why tanks lead the charge to the boss, so why not give them the metrics to evaluate their role too?

My point is, DPS alone is an inadequate yardstick to measure all players by. I see NPC's using training dummies all the time, could something similar be possible for ESO?

On the matter of kicking people out of groups for low DPS, why not use those training dummies to set the bar for entry, i.e- you need to hit 15k DPS minimum to que for ICWGT or something? Honestly, people kick each other and rage quit frequently in many MMO's. ESO is no different. It sucks to get booted, I've been that guy didn't research the boss fight on youtube before I qued and didn't understand all 17 fight mechanics on my first run. You know what? I learned. I qued again and got better. Sometimes I even got lucky and grouped with someone patient enough to explain the fight to me, and on my next time in, I returned the favor. Impulsive players will always either rage quit or want to kick everyone else if the fight doesn't go their way. You can't help these people, just try not to be one. If you have knowledge or tips on how to improve or play better, share them.

You can be the tallest tree in the forest if you cut down all the other trees, but then it ain't a forest any more, is it?

helldesign

I definitively vote 'yes'.

Group DPS is very addictive mini game inside the game which extends your interest playing the PVE content. Without it you just get tired of the content really quick.

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Burns

It's sad. Almost twenty years and this argument is still going on

KallistaBlackheart

Burns wrote: »

It's sad to me that this same argument is still going on 15 years later.

Burns wrote: »

It's sad. Almost twenty years and this argument is still going on

so, which is it?

Burns

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Burns wrote: »

It's sad to me that this same argument is still going on 15 years later.

Burns wrote: »

It's sad. Almost twenty years and this argument is still going on

so, which is it?

technically both I suppose. If you start the count from EQ it's about 15+ however if you count from UO it's about twenty

Mady

There is an easy fix for this. Let the player decide if he/she wants to share his/her damage.

@ZOS_GinaBruno ?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mady wrote: »

There is an easy fix for this. Let the player decide if he/she wants to share his/her damage.

@ZOS_GinaBruno ?

ZOS already answered that.
Answer was that optional sharing was not an option because group leaders would force players to opt-in (share or be kicked).

.

Mady

Well, I would say 'How about no?' to this dude, put him on ignore and search for another group. It's not that you can't find groups easily in this game

Burns

I think the whole point is they want to avoid that situation entirely.

helldesign

You don't have to be a top player to benefit from the ability to check your groupmates damage. Group dps meters always made me strive to improve my own damage and see what am I missing in my rotation. It's really fun to know "who is who" on the dmg scale and how do you compete.

KallistaBlackheart

Burns wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Burns wrote: »

It's sad to me that this same argument is still going on 15 years later.

Burns wrote: »

It's sad. Almost twenty years and this argument is still going on

so, which is it?

technically both I suppose. If you start the count from EQ it's about 15+ however if you count from UO it's about twenty

so, lazy people who want to be carried but never questioned have been whinging for that long... good to know.

i was late to the mmo games...

KallistaBlackheart

helldesign wrote: »

You don't have to be a top player to benefit from the ability to check your groupmates damage. Group dps meters always made me strive to improve my own damage and see what am I missing in my rotation. It's really fun to know "who is who" on the dmg scale and how do you compete.

yes but all the "i just want to play and get things" crowed do not like being put on the spot when they suck.

anitajoneb17_ESO

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

so, lazy people who want to be carried but never questioned have been whinging for that long... good to know.

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

yes but all the "i just want to play and get things" crowed do not like being put on the spot when they suck.

@KallistaBlackheart : We know you wanted an addon like group damage to identify players with lower DPS than yours, to be able to qualify them as "lazy parasites" and kick them.

That's why this info has been hidden by ZOS. This is a good decision to protect players against people like you.
End of story. Suck it up and live with it.

.

helldesign

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

helldesign wrote: »

You don't have to be a top player to benefit from the ability to check your groupmates damage. Group dps meters always made me strive to improve my own damage and see what am I missing in my rotation. It's really fun to know "who is who" on the dmg scale and how do you compete.

yes but all the "i just want to play and get things" crowed do not like being put on the spot when they suck.

For me honestly it's not about spotting who is lazy or can't play decently his character, I really don't care about that. I just want to know my own standing on the scale in real time.


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Ashtaris

helldesign wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

helldesign wrote: »

You don't have to be a top player to benefit from the ability to check your groupmates damage. Group dps meters always made me strive to improve my own damage and see what am I missing in my rotation. It's really fun to know "who is who" on the dmg scale and how do you compete.

yes but all the "i just want to play and get things" crowed do not like being put on the spot when they suck.

For me honestly it's not about spotting who is lazy or can't play decently his character, I really don't care about that. I just want to know my own standing on the scale in real time.


-

I agree. Many times when I was running with someone I would be watching to see what their DPS was as a comparison. Not because I was doing so much better than they were, but to try and learn why they were getting better DPS than I was The group damage meter I felt did more to help than harm but unfortunately some people didn't see it that way.

helldesign

Ashtaris wrote: »

I agree. Many times when I was running with someone I would be watching to see what their DPS was as a comparison. Not because I was doing so much better than they were, but to try and learn why they were getting better DPS than I was The group damage meter I felt did more to help than harm but unfortunately some people didn't see it that way.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.


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KallistaBlackheart

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

so, lazy people who want to be carried but never questioned have been whinging for that long... good to know.

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

yes but all the "i just want to play and get things" crowed do not like being put on the spot when they suck.

@KallistaBlackheart : We know you wanted an addon like group damage to identify players with lower DPS than yours, to be able to qualify them as "lazy parasites" and kick them.

That's why this info has been hidden by ZOS. This is a good decision to protect players against people like you.
End of story. Suck it up and live with it.

.

now the kicking happens with less justification.

suck it up and deal with it.

MoeCoastie

helldesign wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

I agree. Many times when I was running with someone I would be watching to see what their DPS was as a comparison. Not because I was doing so much better than they were, but to try and learn why they were getting better DPS than I was The group damage meter I felt did more to help than harm but unfortunately some people didn't see it that way.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.


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why dont you just ask the player?

Shunravi

MoeCoastie wrote: »

helldesign wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

I agree. Many times when I was running with someone I would be watching to see what their DPS was as a comparison. Not because I was doing so much better than they were, but to try and learn why they were getting better DPS than I was The group damage meter I felt did more to help than harm but unfortunately some people didn't see it that way.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.


-

why dont you just ask the player?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dynamic

Function

Ashtaris wrote: »

I agree. Many times when I was running with someone I would be watching to see what their DPS was as a comparison. Not because I was doing so much better than they were, but to try and learn why they were getting better DPS than I was The group damage meter I felt did more to help than harm but unfortunately some people didn't see it that way.

^ This

In an environment like trials it was so beneficial having this tool to see the DPS of others in real time. For example, say I am playing as a magicka dragonknight and there is another person playing the same class but he is doing much more damage than me.. it allows me to think, is it the skills I am using, my position, maybe he is using different gear? and ultimately allows me to improve myself.

Burns

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Burns wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Burns wrote: »

It's sad to me that this same argument is still going on 15 years later.

Burns wrote: »

It's sad. Almost twenty years and this argument is still going on

so, which is it?

technically both I suppose. If you start the count from EQ it's about 15+ however if you count from UO it's about twenty

so, lazy people who want to be carried but never questioned have been whinging for that long... good to know.

i was late to the mmo games...

Kind of, I mean it depends on the game, Ultima Online is a good example of they did have these set classes there was no tank per say but if there was a parsed DATA do you kick the Person with Taming skill who registered no damage however they brought a dragon , I mean for (lack of a better word) cookie cutter games (which I played and still do) like WoW it's an absolute need for most. But then again I'm old and by that virtue I'm forced look at this who encompassing picture

KallistaBlackheart

Burns wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Burns wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

Burns wrote: »

It's sad to me that this same argument is still going on 15 years later.

Burns wrote: »

It's sad. Almost twenty years and this argument is still going on

so, which is it?

technically both I suppose. If you start the count from EQ it's about 15+ however if you count from UO it's about twenty

so, lazy people who want to be carried but never questioned have been whinging for that long... good to know.

i was late to the mmo games...

Kind of, I mean it depends on the game, Ultima Online is a good example of they did have these set classes there was no tank per say but if there was a parsed DATA do you kick the Person with Taming skill who registered no damage however they brought a dragon , I mean for (lack of a better word) cookie cutter games (which I played and still do) like WoW it's an absolute need for most. But then again I'm old and by that virtue I'm forced look at this who encompassing picture

eso does not seem to be a cookie cutter game, however a dps still needs to do more damage than a tank... or a healer. if my tank/tank can out dps you.... *kick*

understand that anybody using any tool without understanding game mechanics and how the fight mechanics influence output etc is also just as bad as the dps who wants to be carried. one must understand how to use a tool effectively in order for it to be useful. without said tool regardless of understanding we are just guessing. guessing based on time, based on experience, based on what we see being done spell wise. none of this is very accurate but it is all we have atm.

DirtyFace83

I voted no, although I'd be happy for friends and guildmates to be able to see the numbers.

In a perfect world, I don't see the problem, but if you don't see why it will all end in tears, then you either soloplay through MMO's with chat turned off, or are incapable of being objective and intraspective. Or Both.

I'm not going to go into much detail, because it would require an essay. I'll just say that it will lead to game and forum-wide drama, people leaving or being kicked from maps, reclamations for better loot for 'the winnah', and ultimately lead to a total tunnel vision DPS race. Even for the healers........

There is an MMO I won't name that has people basically doing one single, 5 year old Dungeon run over and over and over again all day every day because it is the best (read 'only') place to see their numbers. The rewards are almost irrelavent to the exercise, and rather than it being a testing ground to check performance for other things, the test itself has become the reason to play the game. Most of the other way more interesting, and 5 years newer content is largely ignored.

That's an extreme case, and allowing people to see their numbers is not the sole culprit, but I think it is a massive contributor.

There are other MMO's where people are kicked from group, etc, etc.

I also don't think that ESO needs this. The people who care probably already have a fair idea of their numbers, and will ask around for the info they lack. And the people who don't care are having fun too.

The eyeball test is the best marker there is. Public numbers will just make lots of people feel superior, entitled, ashamed, embarrassed, etc, etc.

Smajestic

I don't care about the veteran Dungeon, i like sometimes to play with PU random, if the dps is good or not.

But as Raidleader in raid 12, it's a real problem to have nothing to know the dps of the member of the raid. we need to ask everyone. It's not easy to compare between people, it take a lot of time to have the 7-9 result of DD.

it's just difficult to help other to progress, it's difficult to

Without this addon, it more difficult for a lot of people to progress.

Vangy

Oh wow.. This discussion is still on going? lol.. I was a fierce advocate of GD but ZOS has already spoken. The problems that were cited that would happen with the group damage addon are still here, even without it...

1.People are still getting kicked from random queues simply because they are low level and "seem" to have low damage....
2.People are still leaving the instant they see someone playing an unorthodox build that may not be performing to certain standards.
3.Elitists still run rampant in group finder even without GD.
3.Most top guilds still require you to link FTC after each boss fight or they wont even bring you along let alone let you into their guild. These guilds still dominate top leader board positions on their mains and alts leaving almost 0 space for anyone not in them to get into the leaderboards.

What people need to realise is that *** will be *** with or without GD. The current qualms with groupfinder is living proof... More than enough threads in general discussion about how people get kicked instantly or about people who drop queue/disband group are present.

TLDR: I still think GD was a good addon that was far more accurate than FTC for us to use but GD is not in line with what ZOS wants so whatevs. The asses who would abuse it are still around and not hampered in the single bit with removal of GD. The only difference now is that they drop/kick people with impunity based on "feelings" rather than hard figures. Now the dude pulling 10k is getting kicked or people getting kicked simply because they arent v16.