Do you want group damage to return?

Zinaroth

EsoRecon wrote: »

Zos needs to focus on more important things.

That's why they spend effort shutting it down or what? Hipocracy at its finest.

Function

Vildebill wrote: »

If you want to share your DPS you share your DPS yourself. Just be polite ask the person you are wondering about to link their DPS, and if they want to share it they most likely will. The manners people have on internet is horrifying...

I think you are missing the point, a huge benefit of a group damage meter is to see how you are doing compared to others IN REAL TIME. Asking them to constantly post their parse would just be annoying.

actosh

Well, a bit offtopic but @ZOS_GinaBruno

i dont want ppl to see how much gold i make in trading guilds with Master Merchant, its unhealthy and u get kicked if u are no powerseller...blabla...same weak arguments as the crybears used at groupdmg.

Cherryblossom

I honestly don't understand what the big deal is.

If you belong to a progression guild, you will want to know.

If you belong to a guild thats casual, it's a handy resource to let you know where your going wrong and how to improve.

In a random group it allows you to see the person in the group who is not good enough to get past the boss you keep wiping on, this could lead to 1. said person being kicked 2. the group discussing where the person is going wrong. Either way at this point something needs to be done otherwise the group falls apart anyway.

Any nonsense about Elitest players is just waffle without meaning, any Elitest belongs to a progression guild and is not interested in Pug groups.

hydrocynus

My vote is no but I do have DPS sharing enabled for FTC. So that means if someone shares theirs then they can see mine. Those who want to can. Those who don't want to don't have to.

Vildebill

Function wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

If you want to share your DPS you share your DPS yourself. Just be polite ask the person you are wondering about to link their DPS, and if they want to share it they most likely will. The manners people have on internet is horrifying...

I think you are missing the point, a huge benefit of a group damage meter is to see how you are doing compared to others IN REAL TIME. Asking them to constantly post their parse would just be annoying.

Yeah I get the purpose of the add-on and personally like it, but since i have the social skill to understand that everyone isn't like me and and might dislike it I see the decision from ZOS completely understandable.

The best thing here would be an option so we could choose too make our DPS viewable for other players.

Function

Vildebill wrote: »

Function wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

If you want to share your DPS you share your DPS yourself. Just be polite ask the person you are wondering about to link their DPS, and if they want to share it they most likely will. The manners people have on internet is horrifying...

I think you are missing the point, a huge benefit of a group damage meter is to see how you are doing compared to others IN REAL TIME. Asking them to constantly post their parse would just be annoying.

Yeah I get the purpose of the add-on and personally like it, but since i have the social skill to understand that everyone isn't like me and and might dislike it I see the decision from ZOS completely understandable.

The best thing here would be an option so we could choose too make our DPS viewable for other players.

I agree, I think it is the best middle ground is to reallow this addon but have an opt in.

Cherryblossom

Artjuh90 wrote: »

so glad we don't have addons for these kind of elitisms on consoles. if someone isn't doing dps you notice anyway? this only caters to elitist who would kick you because your DPS is like 10% lower then the min/max builds have

How exactly do you notice that someone is not pulling good enough DPS? No Truly you have said you can tell please explain exactly how you can tell. If you can't explain this then your point is invalid.

As I've mentioned actual Elite players are not doing PUGS they are in a progression guilds running the hardest content and need to know they are good, so once again an invalid point.

If you are fighting a Boss and you keep wiping with the group you are in, all will give up and the group will fall apart. If you have the tools to see where you are failing which may be DPS, if people are not standing in Stupid, you can at least make informed decision that may help you get through the encounter.

Would you suggest that you don't see the Stupid that some people stand in so they don't get kicked for not being as quite aware as others!

anitajoneb17_ESO

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

so glad we don't have addons for these kind of elitisms on consoles. if someone isn't doing dps you notice anyway? this only caters to elitist who would kick you because your DPS is like 10% lower then the min/max builds have

How exactly do you notice that someone is not pulling good enough DPS? No Truly you have said you can tell please explain exactly how you can tell. If you can't explain this then your point is invalid.

You can tell because the boss' health doesn't go down. Easy enough.
The problem is when people start pretending that anything under 15K DPS "isn't enough DPS" which is not true. Still they'll kick if there is an addon like GroupDamage.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

As I've mentioned actual Elite players are not doing PUGS they are in a progression guilds running the hardest content and need to know they are good, so once again an invalid point.

You lack field experience ;-) Elite players DO PUG, because they have multiple alts, like to run pledges on all their alts to collect their undaunted gear asap, and do not necessarily have enough fellow guild members available at any given time.
This isn't necessarily a problem though, because most elite players do NOT expect a PUG group to perform like they do. It's rather the opposite : they know they can compensate for poor DPS so they are usually relaxed.
The true problem comes from the "wannabe elite" who don't even have a guild and PUG all the time while imposing high, bloated and unnecessary DPS standards onto other PUG members. And there's plenty of those wannabes around, believe me.
They do it either for the pure enjoyment of feeling superior to others or for the sake of completing the pledges extremely quickly. They do not consider other players like team members, but as tools for their own goals.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Would you suggest that you don't see the Stupid that some people stand in so they don't get kicked for not being as quite aware as others!

Nobody deserves to be kicked for dying once or even a couple of times to red circles, in PUGs some players are discovering the dungeons and must be aware of many if not too many things at once. Unless it is obvious sabotage, nobody should be kicked for that.

People who want guaranteed quick, flawless pledge runs SHOULD NOT PUG.

.

EgoRush

Wow, this is such an even tie...

darkdivideb16_ESO

Missing an I dont care either way option - I use ftc to check if I'm doing ok.

One thing worries me about the poll so far, 50% of players are so bad they dont want others to see their dps? really 50% of the player base wants to be carried through what little hard content there is?

dsalter

Jaeysa wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Gif represents ZOS reaction to Group Damage threads.

Lol, that's pretty accurate.

nah thats the reaction to leaving game threads

vamp_emily

It never bothered me that someone can see my stats.

Voxicity

Voted no but actually after some thought I'm on the fence about it.

Still a no from me though since elitists or competitive players COULD get around not having it (ie using personal dps counter and comparing with others by talking)

Whereas if it's just a core aspect of the game or a possibility with addons there would be no way to opt out of it.

Reznique

BRING IT BACK PLEASE!

Such addons only bring more challenge and competitiveness into those dull trials/dungeons, and competition is what makes you progress and have fun.

anitajoneb17_ESO

OLIVI3R wrote: »

BRING IT BACK PLEASE!

Such addons only bring more challenge and competitiveness into those dull trials/dungeons, and competition is what makes you progress and have fun.

Let me explain :

- Such addons can bring more challenge to the ones who use it this way, but harm a lot those who don't use it this way.
- Competition is what makes YOU (I mean YOU, not generic) progress and have fun. Not everyone likes competition.
- Diversity is what makes ME (I mean ME, not generic) progress and have fun. Such an addon is very likely to promote "almighty DPS" as the only measurement of performance, and thus kill the diversity I like (and already is jeopardized enough as it is).

.

Daraugh

So guilds and friends already have FTC to share numbers. That leaves pugs, pugs who need to polish their e-peen by spying on information that wasn't intended for them to see. Are those people really so sad they need that kind of voyeuristic thrill about how great their dps is compared to someone else they don't even know? ...as they die standing in a red circle, or their healer dies because they didn't care about adds, or their tank dies because the healer is down... and the list goes on.

Do I care that people can see my stats? Not in a way supported by the game, that's fine and non-invasive. Do I care that some random skeever is spying on me and making a one dimensional decision based on one of many aspects of group play. Yes, I do.

Aimora

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

People who want guaranteed quick, flawless pledge runs SHOULD NOT PUG.

.

Totally agree on this bit

AlnilamE

hydrocynus wrote: »

My vote is no but I do have DPS sharing enabled for FTC. So that means if someone shares theirs then they can see mine. Those who want to can. Those who don't want to don't have to.

This is essentially my position as well.

Kippesnikke

Anhedonie wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno ,
Pls get the addon and make it a build in part of the Ui that those who wanr it can activate it, those who dont like it can turn it off. Thx.

So u can serve your players. Thx

This is not gonna work.
"Turn it on before we start or GTFO".

Doesn't matter if u can see it or not. go with a group of elites and then go with group of casuals. then tell me if u can spot the difference. just give back the addon so we can improve.

Zorrashi

Kippesnikke wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno ,
Pls get the addon and make it a build in part of the Ui that those who wanr it can activate it, those who dont like it can turn it off. Thx.

So u can serve your players. Thx

This is not gonna work.
"Turn it on before we start or GTFO".

Doesn't matter if u can see it or not. go with a group of elites and then go with group of casuals. then tell me if u can spot the difference. just give back the addon so we can improve.

You are aware there are other add ons you can use, right? They can have personal DPS meters, damage logs, even group sharing. Group damage is not the end all be all of performance enhancement.

Zorrashi

I think its pretty interesting to see that this topic is just as divisive as the great "AH vs Guild Store" debate. Current results round in a fairly even split (50%-50%)

Discord_Days

I'm against this.
When this became a big thing in World of Warcraft, it kind of ruined the community a little. People started becoming obsessed with dps-meters (it got even worse with gearscore), spam-linking them in chat and boasting about how good they are. If you happened to have a tad low damage, you got insulted or even kicked from the group/raid.
It really ruined it for me, as I felt a pressure always preforming to the maximum so that obsessed people stopped nagging me and making me feel worthless. In the end I stopped playing damage completely and switched to tank and healer.
Playing games to me is about having fun, being constantly criticized that I happen to have 4k dps instead of 6k (for example) isn't, by some guy who only sees worth in other players by how much damage they do per second. I have enough pressure at work and in exams.

Now I'm fairly new to ESO and haven't quite reached the group-content yet (only done Fungal Grotto so far ) but I'm hoping that this won't become a thing here too once I reach the end-game stuff.

Thelon

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

hek no!
i dont want people knowing about my personal choices and armor and how much damage i can do!
that is my own personal business!

code65536

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem is when people start pretending that anything under 15K DPS "isn't enough DPS" which is not true. Still they'll kick if there is an addon like GroupDamage.

Frankly, I've grown tired of this "boogeyman argument". This "Someone might be kicked because of this addon!" nonsense. Show me that this is a problem that the addon would exacerbate. Show me that this is anything but rare. Show me that this is something that wouldn't be happening anyway because jerks will be jerks.

You've argued that the addon should be disallowed because there is the potential for abuse. We don't accept that argument, just as we don't accept that people should be jailed because they might commit a crime, not because they have. The burden of proof is on you, and you have never provided anything beyond imagined worst-case scenarios.

Discord_Days

code65536 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem is when people start pretending that anything under 15K DPS "isn't enough DPS" which is not true. Still they'll kick if there is an addon like GroupDamage.

Frankly, I've grown tired of this "boogeyman argument". This "Someone might be kicked because of this addon!" nonsense. Show me that this is a problem that the addon would exacerbate. Show me that this is anything but rare. Show me that this is something that wouldn't be happening anyway because jerks will be jerks.

You've argued that the addon should be disallowed because there is the potential for abuse. We don't accept that argument, just as we don't accept that people should be jailed because they might commit a crime, not because they have. The burden of proof is on you, and you have never provided anything beyond imagined worst-case scenarios.

The proof is something you can find by looking at how it went in other MMORPG's where players have access to this kind of addons.
WoW being a good example, how this created a toxicity inside the community once the dps-meter addons like recount/skada etc became a mainstream thing. You were worth nothing unless you could deliver top-dps. And this was not some isolated incidents but many raids and groups had at least one person (usually the leaders) who had this kind of attitude.

Valen_Byte

I think at this point the results speak for themselves. GG, move along, nothing to see here.

KallistaBlackheart

code65536 wrote: »

Frankly, I've grown tired of this "boogeyman argument". This "Someone might be kicked because of this addon!" nonsense. Show me that this is a problem that the addon would exacerbate. Show me that this is anything but rare. Show me that this is something that wouldn't be happening anyway because jerks will be jerks.

You've argued that the addon should be disallowed because there is the potential for abuse. We don't accept that argument, just as we don't accept that people should be jailed because they might commit a crime, not because they have. The burden of proof is on you, and you have never provided anything beyond imagined worst-case scenarios.

all the arguments from certain individuals are based on fear and are judiciously sprinkled with obvious straw men. frankly i grow tired of this misrepresentation.

every addon has potential to be abused. elitist snobs will still be elitist snobs. a**sh**ls will still be the same. i would argue that eso has fewer of them then any other game i have played. this is separate from any addon. i have played games with no addons and the elitist kick all aholes were still abundant.

marten_philip

BlackEar wrote: »

There has been some discussing back and forth regarding group damage. It was recently possible to view other party member's DPS through addons. This was not the intend by ZOS and was later removed.

Maybe you prefer this possibility? Maybe you dont? Maybe you want it implemented through ZOS themselves as a core aspect of the game?

Enlighten us! The poll is anonymous.

Meters indicating dmg orother statistic will only lead in people turning in to elitistjerks.
Giving them selves the illusion that a high dmg output makes you a better player.
Even though their mechanics execution is poorly or better said mostly dramatic.

Statistic meters have made many mmo's turn in to autismfests, where people destroy the social approach and team play and make it all about statistics. And I presonally think it's something they want to avoid henche the motivation of removing group dmg indicators.


For dealing most dmg doesn't make you a better player, you might be a greater asset purely on dammage out put but you're not carrying it. ASpecially because each class/variation of skills and weapon reacts differntly. Making many situations quite imbalanced.

I haven't played for over a year.. But I'm guessing dragonknights are still the leading dmg classes.

Thelon

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The true problem comes from the "wannabe elite" who don't even have a guild and PUG all the time while imposing high, bloated and unnecessary DPS standards onto other PUG members. And there's plenty of those wannabes around, believe me.
They do it either for the pure enjoyment of feeling superior to others or for the sake of completing the pledges extremely quickly. They do not consider other players like team members, but as tools for their own goals.

Fear Mongering Increased to Rank IV