ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.

To me this was the most egregious anti-feature of them all– the fact that anybody thought that forcing stuff a player didn't want in the first place as a prize still boggles my mind (or worse, makes me think that these anti-features were put in there intentionally to be withdrawn after the initial feedback as PR dampener).

Today I opened my 78th crate without an Apex reward. I know that ZOS have said that they are going to improve the drop rate, but by how much? The initial drop rates are so seriously wrong, that I have to wonder if they even tried the things before putting them on PTS.

I've seen a lot of anti comments about the crates on this forum, which I suspect are a waist of effort. Clearly money and effort has been put into developing this item and it's also something we have been shown on PTS. That means like it or not they're coming. There are 7 million odd players and you can be sure that any of them that don't comment will be counted as accepting the idea.

The best we can hope for now is to try change their final form by posting positive ideas.

To those of you that don't like the idea, I can see where you're coming from and I do have some sympathy. However guys I do think that you are p***ing into the wind.

JR_Returns wrote: »

To those of you that don't like the idea, I can see where you're coming from and I do have some sympathy. However guys I do think that you are p***ing into the wind.

We are aware that our chances of success are minimal, but that's no reason to just resign and accept the crates. And I suspect many of us will be voting with their wallets as well as speak up against the scamboxes.

lordrichter wrote: »

aldriq wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.

To me this was the most egregious anti-feature of them all– the fact that anybody thought that forcing stuff a player didn't want in the first place as a prize still boggles my mind (or worse, makes me think that these anti-features were put in there intentionally to be withdrawn after the initial feedback as PR dampener).

I am fairly certain that the trade-in value will be a joke. After all, they want you to buy, and buy often, so of you think you are going to buy a couple crates and then pick up that Apex mount you want... well, that's the joke.

Exactly. That's what the pts is for. Zos is trying to figure out where best to put the carrot. Too far and we're not interested. Too close and they don't get as much $ .They gotta find the sweet spot. But near or far it's still a carrot.

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

No, the targets are the people who want to show off and have disposable income. They don't care about the game or story. They don't stop and think about the possible outcomes of a quest if you kill/don't kill, allow someone to run/turn them over to the guard, or whether to allow an npc to be taken by a "bad guy" just because you get three skill points for it. They want to dress up and show off. If they have to play the game to get the bling they will, but would rather pay for it. They are already doing it to an extent. They can't retcon the single player games to say "people rode wolves back in the bad old days", but there are giant wolves of various colors, and one black one with demonic red eyes.... Flaming horse? The senche mounts in the game aren't anything like the description you get from Jobasha in the extra-game info from Morrowind. I'm saying this as someone who has the tiger loyalty reward, and collected the panther and lioness. [I admit, the senche mounts are like pokemon for me, okay?] But I'm not willing to see the game go to the free to play/fedex quests to get rewards/story? what story side to get them.

I think we all hurt their feelings by not buying tons of the food/drink/potions/scrolls from the crown store. Pushing so many of the things [I got a crate that had one repair kit, and everything else in it was potions/food] into the crates seems to be a way to get even for us not thinking they were the bestest items ever and buying them. It might make sense if they were physical items clogging up their warehouse, but in a game? Really? The idea they'll make us feel better about the crates by getting rid of the "consumables" makes a kind of sense. Hey, the crates aren't too bad now. ZOS listened to us, they got rid of the crap items we didn't want! Let's go buy crates and see what they put in instead.

code65536 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I have a hard time imagining that newcomers to the game with little or no attachment would be willing to shell out for such vanities.

Newcomers with an attachment to the game, will.

It's great that they are making changes, but I doubt very much that we'll have a second feedback round. Their stance is that they'll "announce what is changing before we [go live]".

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/546mo4/welcome_to_the_one_tamriel_eso_ama/d7zb2zp

[–]joshfongDark Elf 5 points 1 day ago
Great job on the game and the update so far. Keep up the good work!
My question is about the Crown Crates... I know you guys gave an update earlier today about them and it's very appreciated. However, there's sure to be a lot more feedback before they go live.
Will you be continuing to tweak the crates based on user feedback, and will the newly announced changes (and potentially other changes) land on the PTS before One Tamriel drops?
Thank you.

[–]ZOS_MattF 6 points 1 day ago
We may make more changes than we announced today - there are still some other things we are looking at and assessing feedback. I don't know if we'll have those changes on PTS or not - but they will be in before they go live and we'll be sure to announce what is changing before we do so.

Great. Oh well, I already *announced* that I'm canceling my sub *before* it's up for renewal. I wonder if it helps them as much as it helps us.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

Ah Gina, what your bosses fail to understand is that the ONLY way Crown Crates become acceptable is if there is not a single thing in them that is not ALSO offered as a direct purchase via the crown store. Full stop. You can then go ahead and put ANYTHING from the crown store in the boxes as well and they can be what they SHOULD be, a nice POTENTIAL extra you might get if you want to play the box game and spend some quality time with your bud Pacrooti. This is the ONLY way RNG boxes become an acceptable feature. The player perception here is that ZOS is attempting to serve us a turd sandwich. Giving us fries with that and some tasty condiments does not change the fact that it's still a turd sandwich. The turd in the sandwich IS THE EXCLUSIVE ITEMS. Always has been, always will be. Not until you remove this feature of the RNG boxes will they ever be perceived as anything else. And with good reason.

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

So please ZOS, reconsider. Let us continue to buy the collectibles outright for a set price. It's absurd that we're having to come here to beg you to take our money in an honest way, but that is the position you've put us in.

So much ALL of this.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

So please ZOS, reconsider. Let us continue to buy the collectibles outright for a set price. It's absurd that we're having to come here to beg you to take our money in an honest way, but that is the position you've put us in.

So much ALL of this.

I say let them do it. They already push out pretty average stuff for high prices, and locking a bunch of average stuff behind Crown Crates reduces my need for Crowns.

My thought is that I am going to have some disposable income freeing up that I can spend elsewhere.

lordrichter wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

So please ZOS, reconsider. Let us continue to buy the collectibles outright for a set price. It's absurd that we're having to come here to beg you to take our money in an honest way, but that is the position you've put us in.

So much ALL of this.

I say let them do it. They already push out pretty average stuff for high prices, and locking a bunch of average stuff behind Crown Crates reduces my need for Crowns.

My thought is that I am going to have some disposable income freeing up that I can spend elsewhere.

If they go through with these, my support will cease as well. I want to support them but it's up to them to show us support as well. If they can't do that then I will have to say farewell and thanks for a great game thus far.

JKorr wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I think I found a way I'd be perfectly content with the crown crates.

Offer everything in the store for outright sale. Even if you want to have the limited time items, that's fine. Mounts can be 2500 crowns or more, even.

Offer the Crown Crates for 400 crowns. Have the reward/special items in the crates, including mounts.

Now the people who want to gamble can take a chance that 400 crowns will get them a 2500 crown mount with other things they might find useful. Or a temporarily exclusive for a few months to the crates mount or item before it goes up on the store for full price. You will have people who will spend the 400 for a chance at a deal, while the ones who just want the one item can purchase it without the extra stuff they don't want or need.

I want to stay subbed. I actually want to give the game as it is money. I won't stay subbed if the rngesus crates come out, with no chance to get the old or exclusive items other ways. You gave me the option of buying more character slots outright in the crown store, and I did spend the crowns. It will make it easier to juggle my inventory when I lose the crafting bag when my sub ends.

This isn't made for people who want to gamble. It is made to tempt people to spend unreasonable amounts of money.

In the past they would just sell us re skin of mounts like the bear mounts. Wolf is in the box.

Housing, style parlor, an mounts that are desirable are going to be in the box.

The people that want to gamble is a very small minority. Most of the people that say they are fine with the boxes is because they don't buy cosmetics anyway. They want to break others into giving in to this system through temptation. To do that you can't sell the items directly. It's wrong but that is how these rng boxes work.

From now on it will be in ZOS's best interest to make these boxes as tempting as possible. The regular store items will be bland in comparison. It's how these work and it works well.

Just take a look at other f2p game stores. Everything was so bland and the box items so flashy. If this happens I am done with eso and if these boxes come it will.

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

In the past they would just sell us re skin of mounts like the bear mounts. Wolf is in the box.

Carefully so you don't spread too much misinformation. There are no evidence that indicates that the wolves will be crate exclusives.

Remember that the crates wont be launched untill late this year, which would mean we're likely going to see two more limited time mounts before the crates are out.

If I were to guess, I would say that the Red wolf and the lion will be made available for purchase the next couple of months, and then re-added as part of the Atronach crates.

You could be right about those. It's not really misinformation though just an example. They will likely be the last ones. Didn't Matt say they were box items on redit? Everything else is still valid.