Official Discussion Thread for Crown Crates

Slurg

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

In the past they would just sell us re skin of mounts like the bear mounts. Wolf is in the box.

Carefully so you don't spread too much misinformation. There are no evidence that indicates that the wolves will be crate exclusives.

Remember that the crates wont be launched untill late this year, which would mean we're likely going to see two more limited time mounts before the crates are out.

If I were to guess, I would say that the Red wolf and the lion will be made available for purchase the next couple of months, and then re-added as part of the Atronach crates.

You should not spread misinformation. Matt said in the Reddit chat that he did not know whether these would be box only items or not.

Slurg

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

Ah Gina, what your bosses fail to understand is that the ONLY way Crown Crates become acceptable is if there is not a single thing in them that is not ALSO offered as a direct purchase via the crown store. Full stop. You can then go ahead and put ANYTHING from the crown store in the boxes as well and they can be what they SHOULD be, a nice POTENTIAL extra you might get if you want to play the box game and spend some quality time with your bud Pacrooti. This is the ONLY way RNG boxes become an acceptable feature. The player perception here is that ZOS is attempting to serve us a turd sandwich. Giving us fries with that and some tasty condiments does not change the fact that it's still a turd sandwich. The turd in the sandwich IS THE EXCLUSIVE ITEMS. Always has been, always will be. Not until you remove this feature of the RNG boxes will they ever be perceived as anything else. And with good reason.

I doubt they fail to understand if they've been paying any attention at all to the objections. It seems more likely their position is if they give the players enough fries, they will forget they ordered a steak.

Based on some of the other comments in this thread after Gina's post, it is already working on some people.

nimander99

lordrichter wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

JR_Returns wrote: »

Today I opened my 78th crate without an Apex reward. I know that ZOS have said that they are going to improve the drop rate, but by how much? The initial drop rates are so seriously wrong, that I have to wonder if they even tried the things before putting them on PTS.

I've seen a lot of anti comments about the crates on this forum, which I suspect are a waist of effort. Clearly money and effort has been put into developing this item and it's also something we have been shown on PTS. That means like it or not they're coming. There are 7 million odd players and you can be sure that any of them that don't comment will be counted as accepting the idea.

The best we can hope for now is to try change their final form by posting positive ideas.

To those of you that don't like the idea, I can see where you're coming from and I do have some sympathy. However guys I do think that you are p***ing into the wind.

"Today I opened my 78th crate without an Apex reward. I know that ZOS have said that they are going to improve the drop rate, but by how much? The initial drop rates are so seriously wrong, that I have to wonder if they even tried the things before putting them on PTS"

Perhaps it was just a coding glitch

and they mixed up the drop chance per item for 1 card with 1 crate.....

In which case the drop chance would have to be 4 times as high

If it is a coding glitch, and drop rates are too low, I would not wait up for a hot fix.

Kendaric wrote: »

JR_Returns wrote: »

To those of you that don't like the idea, I can see where you're coming from and I do have some sympathy. However guys I do think that you are p***ing into the wind.

We are aware that our chances of success are minimal, but that's no reason to just resign and accept the crates. And I suspect many of us will be voting with their wallets as well as speak up against the scamboxes.

Yup, but then you are not the target customer, either. The target customer heavily invests in these crates. The crates, and game, need to be designed for the target market. As people drop out of the target market, they need to attract players that are. You can be sure they are very interested in changing the game, and Crown Store, based on what it will take to get new Crown Crate players. Especially if the current player base doss not suppprt them.

(It is because I am not the target market, as a long time MMORPG player and Elder Scrolls fan that does not partake in Crown Crates, that I expect to be leaving the game in a few months. They will be more interested in Crown Crates, as a company, than MMORPG and Elder Scrolls. Especially the RPG part, which is what they want people to pay extra for. As new Crown Crate players enter the game, the game will change to what they want, and away from the more traditional play style that I am willing to pay for.)

This is exactly why I say the base will go free 2 play within a year, they are changing their target market.

Slurg

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

JR_Returns

JKorr wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I think I found a way I'd be perfectly content with the crown crates.

Offer everything in the store for outright sale. Even if you want to have the limited time items, that's fine. Mounts can be 2500 crowns or more, even.

Offer the Crown Crates for 400 crowns. Have the reward/special items in the crates, including mounts.

Now the people who want to gamble can take a chance that 400 crowns will get them a 2500 crown mount with other things they might find useful. Or a temporarily exclusive for a few months to the crates mount or item before it goes up on the store for full price. You will have people who will spend the 400 for a chance at a deal, while the ones who just want the one item can purchase it without the extra stuff they don't want or need.

I want to stay subbed. I actually want to give the game as it is money. I won't stay subbed if the rngesus crates come out, with no chance to get the old or exclusive items other ways. You gave me the option of buying more character slots outright in the crown store, and I did spend the crowns. It will make it easier to juggle my inventory when I lose the crafting bag when my sub ends.

I think this is a very good way forward. A temporary exclusive to the crates for a couple of months and then in the store. Short term players and those who want to gamble have a chance of getting the items immediately, the subscription players and those who can wait will be able to get them eventually.

After all players who pay a subscription are a definite source of monthly income, whereas the crates are not.

JimT722

JimT722 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I think I found a way I'd be perfectly content with the crown crates.

Offer everything in the store for outright sale. Even if you want to have the limited time items, that's fine. Mounts can be 2500 crowns or more, even.

Offer the Crown Crates for 400 crowns. Have the reward/special items in the crates, including mounts.

Now the people who want to gamble can take a chance that 400 crowns will get them a 2500 crown mount with other things they might find useful. Or a temporarily exclusive for a few months to the crates mount or item before it goes up on the store for full price. You will have people who will spend the 400 for a chance at a deal, while the ones who just want the one item can purchase it without the extra stuff they don't want or need.

I want to stay subbed. I actually want to give the game as it is money. I won't stay subbed if the rngesus crates come out, with no chance to get the old or exclusive items other ways. You gave me the option of buying more character slots outright in the crown store, and I did spend the crowns. It will make it easier to juggle my inventory when I lose the crafting bag when my sub ends.

This isn't made for people who want to gamble. It is made to tempt people to spend unreasonable amounts of money.

In the past they would just sell us re skin of mounts like the bear mounts. Wolf is in the box.

Housing, style parlor, an mounts that are desirable are going to be in the box.

The people that want to gamble is a very small minority. Most of the people that say they are fine with the boxes is because they don't buy cosmetics anyway. They want to break others into giving in to this system through temptation. To do that you can't sell the items directly. It's wrong but that is how these rng boxes work.

From now on it will be in ZOS's best interest to make these boxes as tempting as possible. The regular store items will be bland in comparison. It's how these work and it works well.

Just take a look at other f2p game stores. Everything was so bland and the box items so flashy. If this happens I am done with eso and if these boxes come it will.

Won't work. Your confused about the intent of the system.

Dromede

shootyoureyeout wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

shootyoureyeout wrote: »

What if X number of crates were given as part of the subscription each month?

phreatophile wrote: »

You known, this would be a great cover for folks who don't want that electro-pebble mount to act like a big "^Kick me^" sign wherever they ride it. No, I didn't spend $300US for this flashy mount, I won it with subscription crates!

shootyoureyeout wrote: »

I'm telling you...throwing subscribers a few crates could solve SO many issues so many people have with these things without having to change the already-established cash shop RNG crate model. Make it happen, ZOS pretty please!

Slurg wrote: »

No, adding whatever extra pittance of crates (you coud buy buy three a month with your existing subscription crowns) to the subscription certainly does not solve "SO many issues people have". Maybe just one, for the people who already have subs who want to gamble for random things for free instead of buying the things they want.

For my part, I think "free" crates don't solve any of our issues but solve a big one for ZOS. As cool as the electro-pebble mounts look, I'd be embarrassed to be seen on one. It would be advertising stupidity or an addictive personality. As soon as they provide a second avenue for getting these items, the "I wouldn't be caught dead on one of these" factor is gone.

We're in the throw the folks a couple of bones until they shut up phase of this debacle and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if this was one of them. Pay close attention to the drop rate, the gem/duplicate rate, and the gem/consumables rate. Those are the things that matter and the factors ZOS will be most resistant to making any more than token changes to. Converting potions for gems (rate?), some as yet unexplained change to player made consumables, and a (probably) token change to drop rates for high end items are all that's been offered up so far. It is not even close to enough.

They've offered to mix a 1/2 cup of ice cream into a cup of poo, the end result will resemble the latter of the two not the former.

Totally see your point, and it's a fair one so I thank you for your feedback! Just trying to throw some other possible ideas into the mix that 100% don't involve 1) ZOS getting rid of crates alltogether and 2) ZOS getting rid of exclusives in crates...because neither of those things are going to happen. Just thought maybe we could discuss some ways that people who already contribute money to the game might get opportunities to earn them.

I see what you're doing, and applaud your wonderful constructive "silver lining" approach. However, as a subscriber i'm not interetsed in these crates even if i get them for free - i actually think that they will trigger more people to buy them once they had a bite and experienced wonderful Pacrooti interaction (which is fun if you take the real money part out of the equasion).

I don't mind a surprise card opening game as long as there's no chance for me to gamble too much money away Just like with poker, i don't mind a friendly game, but would never play with real money, even if paid upfront a little sum to get started.

And that's not even taking any other doubtful aspects of crown crates into account...

JimT722

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

So they are trading long term elder scrolls fans for kids with access to their parents credit cards. That's great. I feel better now /sarcasm

Edgemoor

JimT722 wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

So they are trading long term elder scrolls fans for kids with access to their parents credit cards. That's great. I feel better now /sarcasm

In Europe it's pegi 18, so not likely that is the target audience.

JimT722

Edgemoor wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

So they are trading long term elder scrolls fans for kids with access to their parents credit cards. That's great. I feel better now /sarcasm

In Europe it's pegi 18, so not likely that is the target audience.

That is something I don't get. Who is the target audience. Who could possibly want to spend their hard earned money on games of chance when purchasing things outright has been the norm for this game for 2.5 years. For people who want to know what they are buying it destroys all future prospects.

Edit. Example. When style parlor was in testing I wanted some of the items for my Argonian. They now appear to be exclusives. When housing comes out am I going to need to gamble to get Argonian themed house and decorations. It damages any hope going forward. I will only buy the things that have a quantifiable cost and within reason.

Slurg

JimT722 wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

So they are trading long term elder scrolls fans for kids with access to their parents credit cards. That's great. I feel better now /sarcasm

In Europe it's pegi 18, so not likely that is the target audience.

That is something I don't get. Who is the target audience. Who could possibly want to spend their hard earned money on games of chance when purchasing things outright has been the norm for this game for 2.5 years. For people who want to know what they are buying it destroys all future prospects.

Edit. Example. When style parlor was in testing I wanted some of the items for my Argonian. They now appear to be exclusives. When housing comes out am I going to need to gamble to get Argonian themed house and decorations. It damages any hope going forward. I will only buy the things that have a quantifiable cost and within reason.

Some existing players will be fine with this model once ZOS throws them an extra serving of fries or mixes in a half cup of ice cream, as others have stated. They'll say oh it's not so bad, I can still get the item I want after I buy win all the items I didn't really want three times to acquire enough gems. Maybe I can find a use for all those extra items if I create a new character. And there will be a few people who really don't care what they get as long as they get something.

The rest of us can go pound sand because the new generation of gamers who have been raised on F2P games with grab bags will replace us. Anyone who has raised kids lately knows age ratings only keep out the children of the most vigilant parents.

Dromede

JimT722 wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

So they are trading long term elder scrolls fans for kids with access to their parents credit cards. That's great. I feel better now /sarcasm

Lol

That's exactly the way it felt when Matt mentioned that "you just don't see hardcore players anymore" in ESO.

I just felt stupid for devoting so much time, money and energy to a game, target audience of which is casual gamers who show up once a quarter upon a new dlc release...

Now i guess i should feel out of place because i like to make informed decisions on real money purchases. Lol.

JimT722

Dromede wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

So they are trading long term elder scrolls fans for kids with access to their parents credit cards. That's great. I feel better now /sarcasm

Lol

That's exactly the way it felt when Matt mentioned that "you just don't see hardcore players anymore" in ESO.

I just felt stupid for devoting so much time, money and energy to a game, target audience of which is casual gamers who show up once a quarter upon a new dlc release...

Now i guess i should feel out of place because i like to make informed decisions on real money purchases. Lol.

I'm not the only one in my guild on ps4 that has the senche tiger so that's some major bs. In time it will be true though.

Edgemoor

JimT722 wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But who exactly is the target market? To want to spend this much for cosmetics requires that the person be invested in the game. I mean, if it's a game that I barely play, why in bloody blazes would I care about getting some sparkly mount? They can attract all the new players that they want, but some casual who's new to MMOs and/or new to TES will almost certainly not care about these items.

For the most part, the people who want these special items are also the long-term loyal customers who have a lot of attachment to the game. Yet that is also the segment of the player base that is most offended by this.

It's one thing to be greedy and rationally maximize profit. But it's quite another to be greedy and stupid and do stuff that will ultimately hurt the bottom line.

In my opinion, what they want is a new generation of "fans" of the game, if the current generation is not willing to buy Crown Crates. They know that the MMO crowd can be fickle, and people will come and go. As long as people continue to come, it is not the end of the world if the people who don't want Crown Crates leave. It would be better if we just got in line, wallets out, but the Studio can't have everything.

The new players that come into the game will be less invested in an anti-Crown Crate stand. They will be more open to them. They wil buy them. They are the target market, not the entrenched player who is not interested in them.

The entrenched players are welcome to stay, but the game will be increasingly not for them.

This is no different from the stance when B2P rolled out. The entrenched anti-B2P players either dropped their opposition and joined the store, learned to ignore the store, or left. A new generation of players willing to accept the Crown Store are here now, and the game is more tailored to them than the P2P subscription crowd.

If anything, history tells ZOS they have nothing to fear from opposition.

I was opposed to B2P when it was introduced, but I warmed up to it once I determined that it would give me the freedom to pay for the content I wanted, including new cosmetic items and mounts that were unavailable through the subscription only model. Instead of paying a monthly fee and just taking what they give me, I could choose what to buy and what to pass on. That was acceptable to me.

Now they are going back on that and telling me to pay them money and just take whatever they give me through the gambling crates. That is not acceptable to me. I doubt it's acceptable to even a majority of people who came to the game because they like the crown store.

My nephews and their friends love the random grab bags in the games they play. They don't care what they get out of the bags that they pay for with their parents' credit cards. Their parents don't care about dropping ten or twenty bucks every now and then if it keeps the kids happy and having fun. They are all under 17 but I suspect they are the new target customer.

You are right about this - I don't think it'll hurt the bottom line at all if a bunch of people leave over this.

Also: the games these kids play are all F2P.

So they are trading long term elder scrolls fans for kids with access to their parents credit cards. That's great. I feel better now /sarcasm

In Europe it's pegi 18, so not likely that is the target audience.

That is something I don't get. Who is the target audience. Who could possibly want to spend their hard earned money on games of chance when purchasing things outright has been the norm for this game for 2.5 years. For people who want to know what they are buying it destroys all future prospects.

Edit. Example. When style parlor was in testing I wanted some of the items for my Argonian. They now appear to be exclusives. When housing comes out am I going to need to gamble to get Argonian themed house and decorations. It damages any hope going forward. I will only buy the things that have a quantifiable cost and within reason.

If it goes the way of certain other game then yes, the best housing items are likely to be found in the crown crates. But that's speculation. I would guess it depends on how successful the crates are.

Kadoozy

I have watched enough videos to see that these crates need to change. Either the cost of the rewards need to go down or the rate of duplicate gems needs to at least double, if not both. I get they need to make money, but you would have to spend a fortune to get anything worthwhile from these crates if you don't have incredible luck; let's at least try not to appear insanely greedy, yes?

Or how about letting us convert the trash consumables into gems? a 1:1 ratio would be fair.

JimT722

Kadoozy wrote: »

I have watched enough videos to see that these crates need to change. Either the cost of the rewards need to go down or the rate of duplicate gems needs to at least double, if not both. I get they need to make money, but you would have to spend a fortune to get anything worthwhile from these crates if you don't have incredible luck; let's at least try not to appear insanely greedy, yes?

Or how about letting us convert the trash consumables into gems? a 1:1 ratio would be fair.

Won't be enough for many of us. I won't play another SWTOR.

Coolio_Wolfus

To start with: REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!!

RNG currently looks like:
REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! One Item REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!!

Follow up with: Lowering the prices (Crown and Gem) if you won't change the conversion rate.

JimT722

Kadoozy wrote: »

I have watched enough videos to see that these crates need to change. Either the cost of the rewards need to go down or the rate of duplicate gems needs to at least double, if not both. I get they need to make money, but you would have to spend a fortune to get anything worthwhile from these crates if you don't have incredible luck; let's at least try not to appear insanely greedy, yes?

Or how about letting us convert the trash consumables into gems? a 1:1 ratio would be fair.

Coolio_Wolfus wrote: »

To start with: REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!!

RNG currently looks like:
REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! One Item REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!! REMOVE THE CONSUMABLES!!!

Follow up with: Lowering the prices (Crown and Gem) if you won't change the conversion rate.

The only way I think many will be able to go forward with this is if they remove all exclusive items with the exception of the atronach and auras. Also assurances that going forward only themed mounts will be exclusive. I never want to see another item in there other then themed mounts and auras.

If they decide to do this, only then will I decide to continue supporting this game. If not I will move on.

Edit. According to Matt in the interview on mmorpg.com you buy them for the consumables. The ones we buy already. So if he is sincere about that then themed mounts should be all that's needed in there.

JimT722

Sounds like this was the implied intent from the interview anyway.

Copied from mmorpg.com

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.
Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=11112&game=821&ismb=1#7Fx1uDJf64otPoDr.99

Circuitous

Edit: If, indeed, the focus of Crown Crates is to buy consumables and get a chance at items that can be purchased in the Crown Store, meaning that all the seemingly exclusive items outside the Storm Atronach theme are not actually exclusive, then that's actually already a huge step towards making me happier. However, in that case, the quantity and quality of consumables needs to improve significantly. I still think the "coupon" concept for buying potions that have direct value to the player is a good idea for this format. The rest of my post continues as normal below.

Oh boy, here I go.

First off: hello, ZOS. I'm glad you're reading this. And a special hello to @ZOS_GinaBruno, a person I've always appreciated greatly. Your work doesn't go unnoticed.

Let me start off by saying that if Crown Crates remain on the Crown Store, you have my absolute promise that I will never buy them. Not a one, at any cost, no matter what's inside. I've been down that road. I know where it leads. It is not a good place.

This does not mean I would be opposed to Crown Crates existing on the Crown Store. I think they can be done right, and I think that the suggestions in this thread are mostly really great. I'm ecstatic to see that the team has budged, even slightly, on some contentious points. That really does mean a lot.

I'm sorry to say I haven't been able to try Crown Crates out myself. I don't have room on my primary hard drive to install the PTS, and the Launcher won't let me put it anywhere else. Despite this, I've seen the results; I've seen the videos; I've heard the userbase's impassioned pleas.

So, my post here comes in two parts. The first part assumes that Crown Crates must stay in the Crown Store, and has my suggestions and feedback on that reality. The second part instead focuses on options for Crown Crates that don't involve real money, following the thread of several suggestions you've already read. Honestly, most of this will be retreading old ground, so I'll do my best to elaborate and keep things neat and tidy for easy browsing.

Requirements for a Happy Circuitous
Crown Crates in the Crown Store

• An Increase in Value: ideally some combination of the following.
  • More guaranteed cosmetic drops.
    Two of the four cards should be cosmetic items of some description. Alternatively, have the fifth "bonus" card only trigger when no cosmetic items are dropped, and guarantee a low-rarity prize or a significant number of Crown Gems from it - this would have the added bonus of significantly lightening the sting of a bad hand.
  • Reduce the pool of consumable items.
    You're already looking into this, so that's great news. I'd actually like to propose simply replacing the consumables outright with some sort of coupon that can be spent on Crown Store consumable items of the player's choice. Getting potions in your Crate already sucks - getting a Warrior's potions on your Mage sucks worse. Items like the Crown Mimic Stones or Crown Experience Scrolls can stay.
  • Substantially better Crown Gem returns.
    When I imagined the Crown Crates in my head, I pictured receiving a duplicate item and getting exactly its normal Crown value in Gems. Meanwhile, Crate items could be purchased outright for their equivalent Crown price in Gems. (I had high hopes, what can I say?) The 1/3 return we're seeing now doesn't even feel good - and don't even get me started on the rounding.
  • The ability to immediately exchange any unwanted item for Crown Gems.
    I'm thankful that ZOS has given concessions on this point by planning to allow unwanted consumables to be "cashed in". That said, I can't be happy with the system unless they go a step further and allow any item to be exchanged for its equivalent "duplicate" Crown Gems.
  • Reduced cost of the Crown Crates themselves.
    Even with these concessions in place, I wonder that the Crown Crates merit their price tag. As things stand now, I'd expect 400 Crowns to give you 10 Crates, at the least. This would have the pleasant side effect of letting people enjoy the spectacle of "the game" a little longer. Obviously the number of Crates, or price of a single Crate, could be changed based on how many concessions are made. It would be a tough balancing act, but I personally feel that ZOS has nothing to lose by underpricing the Crates a bit - cheaper Crates means the lucky ones feel great, and the unlucky ones don't feel ripped off.
• Less Predatory Behavior: any concessions made to reduce the blatant skeeviness of the product is a Good Thing.[/b]
  • Alterations to Pacrooti's dialog.
    Currently, Pacrooti has many VO lines that misrepresent the nature of the Crown Crate. Things like "Perseverance is a virtue." The mere implication that continued use of the Crown Crate offers a chance at better rewards needs to be avoided at all costs. That's not how these things work. Pacrooti, of all NPCs, should be keenly aware of this fact. So please, ZOS, for your own dignity, don't use lines like this. Let Pacrooti be realistic about it, something simple like "Better luck next time!" or perhaps going a bit more in-character with "This one should know: if the odds aren't in your favor, at least play a game with good consolation prizes." Note that the consolation prizes would have to actually be good for that line to work.
  • Remove the higher-tier XP Scrolls.
    I can't believe those got past the idea phase. ZOS had a genuinely impressive track record of keeping the Crown Store consumables in a good place - just strong enough to be useful, but never enough to compete with crafted items. These fly in the face of that. Do the right thing here.
  • More reasonable Crown Gem prices.
    As I stated above, my ideal Crown Crate had items for sale using Crown Gems with prices matching their normal Crown Store value. Not only do we not have that, but items are sorted into arbitrary tiers and priced identically, with no regard for the type of item they actually are. This not only means that the item you actually want could seem impossibly out of reach, but that it may be situated next to items that seem far more valuable. I understand pricing by rarity, of course, but the type of item in question also needs to be taken into account.
  • Expose the odds of any given type of drop.
    I consider this a bare minimum for having Crown Crates be available at all. Even a lottery ticket gives you your odds of winning any given prize. This is an extremely simple good faith move.
  • Do not alter the odds on a per-user basis for any reason.
    Just don't, seriously. Never, ever do this.
  • Make it abundantly clear what items are locked to Crown Crates.
    It should not be in any way difficult to see exactly what items are available in Crown Crates. This is another bare minimum. Don't hide this information in individual item tooltips. Make it blatantly apparent on the Crates themselves, so that there can be no confusion.
  • Don't lock significant portions of new items behind Crown Crates.
    Crates should be an addition to the Crown Store, not a replacement. Not only does flooding the prize pool limit people's options for direct purchase (in turn upsetting players that would otherwise gladly pay), it also makes the items a player might actually want from a Crown Crate even less likely to drop. It's a bad thing for all players. The idea of "themes" for Crown Crates, with a few matching items, is a really good one, and the Storm Atronach items up for grabs now prove that. Don't water that down with dozens of other items. Take a valuable lesson from Valve and keep a given "season" of Crates relevant and interesting. Meanwhile, have the various returning items in a separate, year-round Crate option. This also ties in to the Value ideas above: the more likely a player is to get a particular item, the more willing they'll be to take the shot.
  • Enforce a purchasing limit.
    This is, sadly, the last thing I'd expect any company to do. Some have done it, and good on them, but it's kind of a crazy idea on paper. That said, it's a massive gesture of good will, even if the cap is pretty high.

That covers everything I can think of right now. I might edit some things in later. For now, let's move on to...

Crown Crates outside of the Crown Store

I understand, of course, that a lot of work has been put into the Crown Crates. The items in them, the presentation, the dialogue, etc. can't simply be discarded. As such, the following ideas make use of the Crown Crates, their presentation, and their contents without having them in the Crown Store.

• Handling Crown Crates Outside the Crown Store
  • Take the non-exclusive items and put them into the Crown Store on their own.
    Let them be purchased for normal amounts of Crowns so that the people who want those items can weigh their prices against their desire and make an informed purchasing decision. This has been working, hasn't it?
  • Establish Pacrooti as an NPC.
    Put him out there in the world as an NPC we can visit and interact with. Make his little card game an event that we can do at any time in exchange for Gold or Vouchers earned in-game from things like Treasure Chests, Undaunted Rewards, etc. I'd like to see him established in a place like Reaper's March - there's a gambling den there that doesn't get much love, and he'd be a great fit. Or set him up in each capital, if you like.
  • Let these Vouchers also be purchased directly from the Crown Store.
    Give them a reasonable price, of course - something that's roughly equivalent to the amount of time required to earn these Vouchers from in-game content. Allow them to be purchased in bulk, and even give them a higher chance/guarantee of getting a fifth card. In a situation like this, letting the paying users have a better chance is perfectly fair because unpaying users are still able to get as many chances as they're willing to work for.
  • Keep the themed exclusive items and Crown consumables.
    That's what makes them interesting, and gives them validity as a gold sink/push to do various content. The purchase of Vouchers, plus the Crowns earned from simply allowing most of the items to be purchased normally, should still be a solid source of revenue.
  • Allow unwanted items to be broken down into Gems.
    Instead of getting a new section of the Crown Store, let Pacrooti (or another, nearby NPC) serve as a Merchant that sells items for these Gems. These items could be the more common cosmetics, as well as things like Crafting Containers and other useful goods that are widely desireable.
  • Regardless of how the Voucher/game is acquired, keep the odds equal.
    I'd hope this goes without saying. The odds, on a per-card basis, should be even regardless of how the hand was dealt. This includes the given season's unique items.

That's all I've got for now, I think. Thank you to anyone, especially ZOS, who read this all the way through. I hope to see Crown Crates introduced in a way that far more people find palatable, and I feel like ZOS can get it done if they really want to. Please, ZOS, don't gloss over the input you're getting in this and other threads.

UrQuan

JimT722 wrote: »

Sounds like this was the implied intent from the interview anyway.

Copied from mmorpg.com

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.
Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=11112&game=821&ismb=1#7Fx1uDJf64otPoDr.99

If that's actually the intent then they need to severely reduce the number of cosmetic items exclusive to them, make it completely clear exactly which ones are exclusive, and buff the number of consumables in the crates. As well as make all sorts of other changes that have been brought up in this thread. Because as it is, they're clearly lottery crates for cosmetics that happen to have some junk consumables thrown in. They're not consumables crates that give you a chance at cosmetics.

silvereyes

JimT722 wrote: »

Sounds like this was the implied intent from the interview anyway.

Copied from mmorpg.com

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store.[snip]
Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=11112&game=821&ismb=1#7Fx1uDJf64otPoDr.99

I call BS. It is abundantly clear that the creative teams were directed to heavily emphasize apex rewards as the ultimate goal and de-emphasize the normal Crown Store consumables that people are "probably already purchasing":

• The art, title, and tooltips for the crate all emphasize the themed apex rewards
• There is no picture of any consumables on the crate store listing artwork.
• The majority (6/9) of the storm atronoch themed drops are all apex rewards that are nearly unattainable without hundreds of dollars.
• The crate preview sorts apex rewards at the top
• All consumables except the new PTW grand XP scroll are sorted at the bottom
• The voice acting eggs you on when you get all consumables and low tier stuff

Daraugh

I finally had a few minutes on the PTS and I gave the crown crates a go. In another thread, I had said I simply wouldn't buy any. Not because there wasn't anything I wanted in them, but because I didn't care one way or the other if they existed. I understand why Zos wants to implement them, but I think they're shooting themselves in the foot with the idea. It's a low quality way of tempting people to spend instead of a quality offering that inspires people to spend in support of the game.

So, having bought the crates I noticed the new icon on the UI. Strike one. You're changing UI elements to support something you know people are upset about. Now, instead of opening the store and seeing the crates, it's there winking at us. A simple container in your inventory would have been in better taste, but good taste is being flung out the window.

Upon using the icon, beloved Pacrooti is being used in a cut scene to make my 400 crowns feel like they were spent on something awesome. Nope. A bunch of consumables and a pet I didn't buy before because I didn't want it. Unlike all of the other pets I have bought because I wanted them and I felt them worth the crowns. Strike two.

It pulled me out of the game and into a mini game. You've taken suggestions we've made on the forums for months or even years. "Why no mini games?" "Could we have gambling in-game, dice or cards?" "When will Pacrooti be back?" Strike three. Using suggestions that were and are intended for the honest game. The real game. Mini games, card games and most of all Pacrooti were never intended to be twisted and perverted like this. Strike three.

You want me to buy stuff? Ok, I will. I'll buy a costume or a mount that I can see. I've done it plenty of times already! I won't buy a crown crate though. There is nothing you can ever put in one that will make me subject myself to the sad, depressing reminder of how you took our suggestions and twisted them. I don't care about gems or mounts, there's nothing I want that if I can't buy it outright, that would make me open that pandering cut screen again.

Considering that we know development is about two years out, i.e., static game elements that showed up two years before actual live release, has this also been in the works since 2014? The sub that became buy to play, then the crates which may get better consumables, despite the assurance that crown items would never be better than crafted? You guys aren't even being subtle.

Mojmir

JimT722

silvereyes wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Sounds like this was the implied intent from the interview anyway.

Copied from mmorpg.com

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store.[snip]
Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=11112&game=821&ismb=1#7Fx1uDJf64otPoDr.99

I call BS. It is abundantly clear that the creative teams were directed to heavily emphasize apex rewards as the ultimate goal and de-emphasize the normal Crown Store consumables that people are "probably already purchasing":

• The art, title, and tooltips for the crate all emphasize the themed apex rewards
• There is no picture of any consumables on the crate store listing artwork.
• The majority (6/9) of the storm atronoch themed drops are all apex rewards that are nearly unattainable without hundreds of dollars.
• The crate preview sorts apex rewards at the top
• All consumables except the new PTW grand XP scroll are sorted at the bottom
• The voice acting eggs you on when you get all consumables and low tier stuff

That's why I posted this. They are trying to claim it is a crate of consumables with a chance of something more. This isn't the case at all. The massive amounts of exclusive items, the NPC, they suggest gambling. The information about the exclusives has been very little. This entire thing seems shady and deceptive. Why? Because they know what they are doing is wrong.

Sigma957

But I have a ton of crowns from my eso plus, what am I going to waste them on Anyway it doesn't matter whether crown crate are introduced or not I will still be on eso. Too much time has been spent playing the game to simply walk away because of an item is in the store that doesn't affect me personally.

JimT722

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.

Are these supposed to be crates of consumables with a chance at cosmetics. If so they need a massive overhaul.

- The NPC is distasteful. If it is for consumables with a chance at cosmetics why is he taunting us to gamble?
- Why so many exclusives. If they are supposed to be a bonus to a consumable crate wouldn't just the atronach themed items be sufficient. Make it so a voucher has a small chance to drop and be redeemed for the mount. The gems seem to enforce the fact it's going to be exclusive heavy. Just remove gems and occasionally rotate new themes of mounts in.

I love this game and I want to support it. I don't want to gamble though. With great things in the works like housing I fear they will be heavily integrated into the crown crates. That prospect makes me fear I will no longer enjoy where the game is heading as I have played games with rng boxes before.

If this becomes a lottery box and not a consumables box with goodies it's going to hurt your loyal customers who have supported you so passionately thus far. We are the ones who subscribe and buy stuff on the store. I hope everyone at ZOS makes an effort to reassure us that you have your fans interests at heart as we love the world you have created.

jeevin

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I agree with the above post. If Matt Firor says this;

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.

Then you, Gina, say this;

We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.

Which is it?

Call the Crown Crates for what they are and as they are intended. Why not give the community a real insight into the "design" process of such things? Why not be open?

Mercutio

I'm not sure why ESO would make this move and risk alienating their most passionate fans when there is a really simple, easy to implement pair of fixes that would erase the majority of complaints:

1) Make any Crown Crate Only Cosmetic available in the store six months later.

• The whales and gamblers will still want to purchase the Crown Crates because six months is a long time in gaming, and they will have half a year to be the coolest kids on the block with the shiny new toy. Those of us who do not like the Crown Crates but are heavily invested in the cosmetic aspects of the game will be placated in the knowledge that down the road we will be able to purchase said item(s).
• No matter the polish of the advertising or spin, some of us (a great deal by the size of this thread) will simply never find the concept appealing. My children love "blind bags". I do not. I don't gamble, never have.
• Like many adults, if I want something I am accustomed to just buying it. And I have bought a good bit from the cash shop in ESO. I actually look forward to seeing what the new items will be each month and I set aside part of my entertainment budget to obtain the new mounts/costumes etc. that appeal to me. Why would you want to implement a system that lessens my desire to spend money on your products?

2) Implement an annual weekend where everything that has been released in the store or Crown Crates, except for items introduced in the past six months, is made available for purchase.

• Even if the prices were doubled, say 5000 Crowns for a mount instead of 2500, people who missed out on an item they really, really want would be able to obtain it. This would create a massive amount of good will on your company's end in addition to making a ton of money. Perhaps the sale could coincide with whatever sales quarter you would desire to show increased revenue?
• Maybe it could also be a Christmas like event where, in addition to buying for ourselves, we could buy for others as presents.
• New players to the game would not feel like they are going to be forever missing out on cool content. It would in effect erase the cosmetic castes of Veteran Player vs. New Player. Speaking as a Veteran Player myself, I have no problem with new players being able to get the same items I have. It's more money for ESO and would enhance retention rates. Win/win.

It is my sincere hope that you will give my ideas some consideration. They seem to me to offer you the Crown Crate profits you understandably desire while also acknowledging and resolving a major source of customer dissatisfaction.

JimT722

jeevin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I agree with the above post. If Matt Firor says this;

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.

Then you, Gina, say this;

We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.

Which is it?

Call the Crown Crates for what they are and as they are intended. Why not give the community a real insight into the "design" process of such things? Why not be open?

I'm hoping they will make changes to make these acceptable. Right now they are not even close. The sheer amount of potential exclusive items tell me they will be the dominant source of future offerings. Unless massive changes are made I can find a game that better matches the experience I am looking for. I hope it will be ESO but I leave that up to ZOS. I hope they will but the amount of effort put into this concerns me that they will be unwilling to make much change.