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STOP DOING EQUIPMENT WRITS
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I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Variety in what to craft would be needed as well - i am getting so tired when i do those writs, just because they are so awfully boring to do - always the same stuff, I know it by heart already
5 daggers - 2 helmet - 2 pauldrons
3 sword - 2 cuirass - greaves
2 great sword - 2 sabaton - 2 gauntlets
2 shoes - 2 hats - 2 sash
2 robes - 2 breeches - epaulets
2 gloves - 2 helmet - 2 arm cops
3 of any destruction staves
6 bow - 2 shield
2 resto staves - 4 shields
what kind of variety is this - this is awfully mind-numbing.
1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.Edited by Lysette on August 6, 2016 10:44AM0 -
Holmarion19✭✭✭✭Use Lazy Writ crafter add-on and never worry about needing to know what the writs contain ever again.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holmarion19 wrote: »Use Lazy Writ crafter add-on and never worry about needing to know what the writs contain ever again.
I know it by heart because I do 72 of them when I do writs - this is not the problem to memorize that, it is burned into my brain by mind-numbingly boring repetition.
I am not using add-ons like this - I have a minimap and a harvester map, so that I know which character was in which area already - because then there are the markers for the found materials - that is all what I need it for, to have a hint, who was where already. So and that is all, every other add-on which automates gameplay I consider cheating - and I am not going to use those. Same with add-ons, which destroy the experience of exploration - like sky-shards, lore-book and so on - i am not going to use those.Edited by Lysette on August 6, 2016 10:53AM0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.Edited by Lysette on August 6, 2016 11:07AM0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my opinion, there is nothing ZOS can do to improve writs.
They don't dictate the market price of materials.
The amount of gold each writ grants only prevents material price from falling lower than the artificial profitability of writs.
In fact, end game equipment writs are already given special treatment, since they are the only ones that require half of the usual amount of items to complete them.
And there it was the least needed to do that - because these materials are plenty available in guild stores - the same is not true for lower level materials for example. For those there is a void - the whole system of how these writs work need an overhaul to make all materials equally useful.
This is simply something every MMO goes through, the aging of materials.
Max level writs will never be profitable, since max level materials are always in demand. Not to mention that if a writ was to become profitable, more people would do it, increasing the demand for the corresponding materials, thus making it not profitable again.
You can actually calculate where the price of each material tips into more profitability.
Certain lower level writs are more profitable than the max level (EDIT: if you were buying the materials from stores).Edited by Dubhliam on August 6, 2016 11:20AM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If there are other things to clarify, I have to do some work now in RL - I will check back later.0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In my opinion, there is nothing ZOS can do to improve writs.
They don't dictate the market price of materials.
The amount of gold each writ grants only prevents material price from falling lower than the artificial profitability of writs.
In fact, end game equipment writs are already given special treatment, since they are the only ones that require half of the usual amount of items to complete them.
And there it was the least needed to do that - because these materials are plenty available in guild stores - the same is not true for lower level materials for example. For those there is a void - the whole system of how these writs work need an overhaul to make all materials equally useful.
This is simply something every MMO goes through, the aging of materials.
Max level writs will never be profitable, since max level materials are always in demand. Not to mention that if a writ was to become profitable, more people would do it, increasing the demand for the corresponding materials, thus making it not profitable again.
You can actually calculate where the price of each material tips into more profitability.
Certain lower level writs are more profitable than the max level.
[snip]
Writs give you:
- Gold (~200 per);
- Chance at gold mats/runes (~2k to ~5k+ on PC); [edit: was quoting numbers from memory, after checking in game it's actually 3k (rosin) to 10k (tempering alloy)
- Chance at surveys for raw mats which in turn can give you gold mats through refinement.
Unless you just log in to do writs, it's quite easy to be self-sufficient in terms of the mats needed for writs. I only ever bought the tier 9 mats because I simply can't run out of the tier 10 ones. I run plenty of dungeons and trials, and pick up everything in sight when doing my surveys, which means my crafting bag is always full to the brim with whatever mats I need for writs. I highly doubt selling those would compensate for my loss of gold mats in particular.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 22, 2026 12:17PM0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I highly doubt selling those would compensate for my loss of gold mats in particular.
Calculate instead of doubting. You will see that most of the time (but depending on type, level and rng, things may vary) selling those mats you have gathered would make you more money than the writs and potential gold mats from them.
0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my opinion, there is nothing ZOS can do to improve writs.
They don't dictate the market price of materials.
The amount of gold each writ grants only prevents material price from falling lower than the artificial profitability of writs.
In fact, end game equipment writs are already given special treatment, since they are the only ones that require half of the usual amount of items to complete them.
And there it was the least needed to do that - because these materials are plenty available in guild stores - the same is not true for lower level materials for example. For those there is a void - the whole system of how these writs work need an overhaul to make all materials equally useful.
This is simply something every MMO goes through, the aging of materials.
Max level writs will never be profitable, since max level materials are always in demand. Not to mention that if a writ was to become profitable, more people would do it, increasing the demand for the corresponding materials, thus making it not profitable again.
You can actually calculate where the price of each material tips into more profitability.
Certain lower level writs are more profitable than the max level.
[snip]
Writs give you:
- Gold (~200 per);
- Chance at gold mats/runes (~2k to ~5k+ on PC);
- Chance at surveys for raw mats which in turn can give you gold mats through refinement.
Unless you just log in to do writs, it's quite easy to be self-sufficient in terms of the mats needed for writs. I only ever bought the tier 9 mats because I simply can't run out of the tier 10 ones. I run plenty of dungeons and trials, and pick up everything in sight when doing my surveys, which means my crafting bag is always full to the brim with whatever mats I need for writs. I highly doubt selling those would compensate for my loss of gold mats in particular.
What exactly is [snip]?
That max level writs are not profitable? 8 pages of this thread would argue otherwise.
Is the fact that you can calculate the profitability [snip]?
To properly calculate the profitability, I would take into account the gold otained, the % chance of obtaining legendary tempers, the % chance of obtaining Glass motif parts, along with % chance of obtaining surveys, and the average number of raw materials collected from surveys.
Then simply take the market value of Glass motif fragments, refined materials, tempers and raw materials, add them into the formula and voila.
Not [snip]
I have done something similar to this in another game for potion crafting purposes, I did not bother doing it in ESO since with Master Merchant addon profitability is practically intuitive.
[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 22, 2026 12:18PM0 -
Clarkieson✭✭✭✭Just a heads up, I have done all 3 equipment writs across 8 toons over the past 3 days. In a nutshell;
I am now at a net loss of ;
1. Around 50 Rubedite ores per toon --> 400 ore lost
2. Around 40 ash per toon --> 320 ash lost
3. Around 40 silk per toon --> 320 silk lost
In return, I got one wax and one temper --> about 11.5k gold + 660*8*3 = about 27k gold. Bear in mind, tempers and wax are rng so you might not get any.
So breaking it down per toon --> you would lose about 50 of each v15 mat and get around 2k gold in return (not including gold mats) for doing equipment dailies.
You would be better off not relying on RNG and avoiding crafting dailies for equipment writs altogether IMO.
Do at your own risk. Stick to consumables to get kutas at minimal cost. I, personally am going to stop doing any equipment writs until ZOS gets this nonsense sorted.
i totally agree with this
got hirelings on 10 characters, i get enough from them with out having to worry about [snip] RNG writs. [snip] RNG.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 22, 2026 12:19PM0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...1 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭Writs are worthless to do, even more so now with new patch. Glass motif are worthless.
The time spent in someone doing 6 writs, is equatable to me making ~50k if i spent that time shopping to flip some items in which i can just buy whatever materials or gold mats i need.
If you truly look at profitability for end game players, its worthless. If your a new player and dont have a clue, probably best to do writs as its mainly the only way to gather mats and/or get gold tempers.1 -
UncannyLinderman✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.1 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Travy_2Hype wrote: »But.. but.. they're so addicting!
However, they are a complete loss overall. Only thing I enjoy from them is getting the surveys, not to mention I still need the achievement for doing X amount of writs. After I hit that achievement, I'll most likely stop.
you could still do the cooking/alchemy ones for the achievment,
0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Linderman wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.
What happens when you have TWO customers, one says: "I'll give you 10$ if you can wait for two minutes, I just need to go get my wallet." while the other says: "I'll give you 5$ right now", do you still sell it for 5$?0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.Edited by Lysette on August 6, 2016 1:01PM1 -
ScottK1994✭✭✭Feel sorry for you PC players just now(I know I only have two weeks to wait but can do a lot in that time) I honestly think the writs are working perfectly the way it was(or is for me just now) because and I'm using blacksmithing for ease, though you'd have to use a small amount of rubedite you'd have a use for other material which is lacking of any use in the game just now.
Why are pushing for only rubedite ingots to be important, having such few materials be relevant in a craft will cause an even bigger gap in wealth, a ton of useless items(which becomes a hindrance on our games system as they're being unused) and then every crafter will be doing the exact same thing all the time while most people just avoid the crafts altogetherEdited by ScottK1994 on August 6, 2016 1:02PM0 -
Clarkieson✭✭✭✭The_Linderman wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.
What happens when you have TWO customers, one says: "I'll give you 10$ if you can wait for two minutes, I just need to go get my wallet." while the other says: "I'll give you 5$ right now", do you still sell it for 5$?
you take both sets of money and then explain to the customers that the items that they have purchased are a share in the product and that the shares will go up in value over a set period.
its what the bank of england does with gold. multiple customers can all own the same piece of gold and you maximise the value of your asset knowing full well that the customers can never actually physically own the gold and would never demand to have it delivered to them.
1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Clarkieson wrote: »The_Linderman wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.
What happens when you have TWO customers, one says: "I'll give you 10$ if you can wait for two minutes, I just need to go get my wallet." while the other says: "I'll give you 5$ right now", do you still sell it for 5$?
you take both sets of money and then explain to the customers that the items that they have purchased are a share in the product and that the shares will go up in value over a set period.
its what the bank of england does with gold. multiple customers can all own the same piece of gold and you maximise the value of your asset knowing full well that the customers can never actually physically own the gold and would never demand to have it delivered to them.
That is why I buy tola bars in Dubai or 24 carat gold jewelry, which costs just a bit more than the tola bars - gold in the hand, especially when easily dividable like with jewelry is always better than to own a share of basically nothing at all - just look at the federal reserve in the USA, do you think they have that gold they claim? - I think they don't.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.
Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.
Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.
But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.
You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.
Bean counters have a restricted short term view 1 -
S'yn✭✭✭Writs may or may not be a good idea for your particular character. If you trying to level your crafting skills, writs are a godsend. They will give you at least a chance to roll the dice and get some extra stuff, and you needed to manufacture some stuff to build your crafting skills anyway!
If you are a looking for legendary crafting tempers, writs are generally a good idea. You seem to have a slightly better shot at getting one from writs than you do from refining a crapton of mats, per the same volume you would have used to make the items for the writs.
If you are just interested in making your wallet fat, writs are not what you want to be doing. For pure cash, just farm mats, refine, and sell. You don't even get 1000 gold for completing a writ, and you would make more than that selling the materials you would have used to make all the stuff required to compete the writ to begin with in most cases.
A lot of the profitability depends on RNG, like so many other things in this game. But those points have been my personal experience with writs. Once your level 50 in all the crafting lines and have a bit of a stockpile, you can burn a little for quick cash if you see something shiny in a guildstore! 0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.
Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.
Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.
But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.
You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.
Bean counters have a restricted short term view
you do not learn how to make potions by doing writs, simply because you do the same few potions over and over again - so do not come with that -. this has nothing to do with writs anymore.0 -
Hadan_of_Rift✭✭✭✭
I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.imnotanother wrote: »Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = [snip]
The OP said a net loss. While writs NEVER gave more materials used to complete than they gave they DID make you gold by doing them. That is no longer the case. The temper and survey drop rate is way down since DLC.imnotanother wrote: »
Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.
I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 22, 2026 12:23PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Again the same nonsense - create potions for free - you just do not learn anything from what I say - so be it.Edited by Lysette on August 6, 2016 1:55PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.imnotanother wrote: »Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = [snip]
Give up they do not understand it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 22, 2026 12:23PM0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.imnotanother wrote: »Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = [snip]
Give up they do not understand it.
There is a reason why most of the wealth in this world is controlled by less than 10% of the population =X
Some of the people here are arguing based on god knows what.... Its like they won an ipad in a lucky draw. Their reasoning is;
1. They got Ipad for free.
2. So if they sell Ipad for 2 bucks... They make a 2 dollar profit.
3. YAAAAAAY......
4. Who cares if Ipads are worth 200-400 dollars. They made 2 DOLLARS YEAH BABY YEA~
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 22, 2026 12:25PM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz3 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When this change comes to console I will probably stop doing top level writs. I have already set 3 or my character to do Craglorn writs as they provide survey maps with chance of Nirncrux to be found. I know they use more material than top level writs but to me the payoff is better, especially when harvesting everything as you travel between the survey locations.
Doing top level writs to Wrothgar using only top level material would never provide you with enough to replace the material you use and there are no 'in demand' items worth getting from the Wrothgar survey maps. Just roaming around farming is not my idea of fun, better to run some dungeons and earn gold and loot.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0