STOP DOING EQUIPMENT WRITS
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anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I highly doubt selling those would compensate for my loss of gold mats in particular.
Calculate instead of doubting. You will see that most of the time (but depending on type, level and rng, things may vary) selling those mats you have gathered would make you more money than the writs and potential gold mats from them.
0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my opinion, there is nothing ZOS can do to improve writs.
They don't dictate the market price of materials.
The amount of gold each writ grants only prevents material price from falling lower than the artificial profitability of writs.
In fact, end game equipment writs are already given special treatment, since they are the only ones that require half of the usual amount of items to complete them.
And there it was the least needed to do that - because these materials are plenty available in guild stores - the same is not true for lower level materials for example. For those there is a void - the whole system of how these writs work need an overhaul to make all materials equally useful.
This is simply something every MMO goes through, the aging of materials.
Max level writs will never be profitable, since max level materials are always in demand. Not to mention that if a writ was to become profitable, more people would do it, increasing the demand for the corresponding materials, thus making it not profitable again.
You can actually calculate where the price of each material tips into more profitability.
Certain lower level writs are more profitable than the max level.
Bull.
Writs give you:
- Gold (~200 per);
- Chance at gold mats/runes (~2k to ~5k+ on PC);
- Chance at surveys for raw mats which in turn can give you gold mats through refinement.
Unless you just log in to do writs, it's quite easy to be self-sufficient in terms of the mats needed for writs. I only ever bought the tier 9 mats because I simply can't run out of the tier 10 ones. I run plenty of dungeons and trials, and pick up everything in sight when doing my surveys, which means my crafting bag is always full to the brim with whatever mats I need for writs. I highly doubt selling those would compensate for my loss of gold mats in particular.
What exactly is bull?
That max level writs are not profitable? 8 pages of this thread would argue otherwise.
Is the fact that you can calculate the profitability bull?
To properly calculate the profitability, I would take into account the gold otained, the % chance of obtaining legendary tempers, the % chance of obtaining Glass motif parts, along with % chance of obtaining surveys, and the average number of raw materials collected from surveys.
Then simply take the market value of Glass motif fragments, refined materials, tempers and raw materials, add them into the formula and voila.
Not bull.
I have done something similar to this in another game for potion crafting purposes, I did not bother doing it in ESO since with Master Merchant addon profitability is practically intuitive.0 -
Clarkieson✭✭✭✭Just a heads up, I have done all 3 equipment writs across 8 toons over the past 3 days. In a nutshell;
I am now at a net loss of ;
1. Around 50 Rubedite ores per toon --> 400 ore lost
2. Around 40 ash per toon --> 320 ash lost
3. Around 40 silk per toon --> 320 silk lost
In return, I got one wax and one temper --> about 11.5k gold + 660*8*3 = about 27k gold. Bear in mind, tempers and wax are rng so you might not get any.
So breaking it down per toon --> you would lose about 50 of each v15 mat and get around 2k gold in return (not including gold mats) for doing equipment dailies.
You would be better off not relying on RNG and avoiding crafting dailies for equipment writs altogether IMO.
Do at your own risk. Stick to consumables to get kutas at minimal cost. I, personally am going to stop doing any equipment writs until ZOS gets this nonsense sorted.
i totally agree with this
got hirelings on 10 characters, i get enough from them with out having to worry about bullsh!t RNG writs. duck RNG.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...1 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭Writs are worthless to do, even more so now with new patch. Glass motif are worthless.
The time spent in someone doing 6 writs, is equatable to me making ~50k if i spent that time shopping to flip some items in which i can just buy whatever materials or gold mats i need.
If you truly look at profitability for end game players, its worthless. If your a new player and dont have a clue, probably best to do writs as its mainly the only way to gather mats and/or get gold tempers.1 -
UncannyLinderman✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.1 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Travy_2Hype wrote: »But.. but.. they're so addicting!
However, they are a complete loss overall. Only thing I enjoy from them is getting the surveys, not to mention I still need the achievement for doing X amount of writs. After I hit that achievement, I'll most likely stop.
you could still do the cooking/alchemy ones for the achievment,
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Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Linderman wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.
What happens when you have TWO customers, one says: "I'll give you 10$ if you can wait for two minutes, I just need to go get my wallet." while the other says: "I'll give you 5$ right now", do you still sell it for 5$?0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.Edited by Lysette on August 6, 2016 1:01PM1 -
ScottK1994✭✭✭Feel sorry for you PC players just now(I know I only have two weeks to wait but can do a lot in that time) I honestly think the writs are working perfectly the way it was(or is for me just now) because and I'm using blacksmithing for ease, though you'd have to use a small amount of rubedite you'd have a use for other material which is lacking of any use in the game just now.
Why are pushing for only rubedite ingots to be important, having such few materials be relevant in a craft will cause an even bigger gap in wealth, a ton of useless items(which becomes a hindrance on our games system as they're being unused) and then every crafter will be doing the exact same thing all the time while most people just avoid the crafts altogetherEdited by ScottK1994 on August 6, 2016 1:02PM0 -
Clarkieson✭✭✭✭The_Linderman wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.
What happens when you have TWO customers, one says: "I'll give you 10$ if you can wait for two minutes, I just need to go get my wallet." while the other says: "I'll give you 5$ right now", do you still sell it for 5$?
you take both sets of money and then explain to the customers that the items that they have purchased are a share in the product and that the shares will go up in value over a set period.
its what the bank of england does with gold. multiple customers can all own the same piece of gold and you maximise the value of your asset knowing full well that the customers can never actually physically own the gold and would never demand to have it delivered to them.
1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Clarkieson wrote: »The_Linderman wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
If you have 1 apple, and it's value on the market is $2, customer a wants it for 5, and be wants it for 10, and you sell for 5, sure, you could have made 8, but you still made 3 dollars profit. So, while you didn't maximize your potential earnings, you still profitted.
What happens when you have TWO customers, one says: "I'll give you 10$ if you can wait for two minutes, I just need to go get my wallet." while the other says: "I'll give you 5$ right now", do you still sell it for 5$?
you take both sets of money and then explain to the customers that the items that they have purchased are a share in the product and that the shares will go up in value over a set period.
its what the bank of england does with gold. multiple customers can all own the same piece of gold and you maximise the value of your asset knowing full well that the customers can never actually physically own the gold and would never demand to have it delivered to them.
That is why I buy tola bars in Dubai or 24 carat gold jewelry, which costs just a bit more than the tola bars - gold in the hand, especially when easily dividable like with jewelry is always better than to own a share of basically nothing at all - just look at the federal reserve in the USA, do you think they have that gold they claim? - I think they don't.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.
Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.
Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.
But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.
You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.
Bean counters have a restricted short term view 1 -
S'yn✭✭✭Writs may or may not be a good idea for your particular character. If you trying to level your crafting skills, writs are a godsend. They will give you at least a chance to roll the dice and get some extra stuff, and you needed to manufacture some stuff to build your crafting skills anyway!
If you are a looking for legendary crafting tempers, writs are generally a good idea. You seem to have a slightly better shot at getting one from writs than you do from refining a crapton of mats, per the same volume you would have used to make the items for the writs.
If you are just interested in making your wallet fat, writs are not what you want to be doing. For pure cash, just farm mats, refine, and sell. You don't even get 1000 gold for completing a writ, and you would make more than that selling the materials you would have used to make all the stuff required to compete the writ to begin with in most cases.
A lot of the profitability depends on RNG, like so many other things in this game. But those points have been my personal experience with writs. Once your level 50 in all the crafting lines and have a bit of a stockpile, you can burn a little for quick cash if you see something shiny in a guildstore! 0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.
Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.
Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.
But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.
You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.
Bean counters have a restricted short term view
you do not learn how to make potions by doing writs, simply because you do the same few potions over and over again - so do not come with that -. this has nothing to do with writs anymore.0 -
Hadan_of_Rift✭✭✭✭
I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.imnotanother wrote: »Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = BS
The OP said a net loss. While writs NEVER gave more materials used to complete than they gave they DID make you gold by doing them. That is no longer the case. The temper and survey drop rate is way down since DLC.imnotanother wrote: »
Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.
I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.
Edited by Hadan_of_Rift on August 6, 2016 1:57PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Again the same nonsense - create potions for free - you just do not learn anything from what I say - so be it.Edited by Lysette on August 6, 2016 1:55PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.imnotanother wrote: »Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = BS
Give up they do not understand it.0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.imnotanother wrote: »Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = BS
Give up they do not understand it.
There is a reason why most of the wealth in this world is controlled by less than 10% of the population =X
Some of the people here are arguing based on god knows what.... Its like they won an ipad in a lucky draw. Their reasoning is;
1. They got Ipad for free.
2. So if they sell Ipad for 2 bucks... They make a 2 dollar profit.
3. YAAAAAAY......
4. Who cares if Ipads are worth 200-400 dollars. They made 2 DOLLARS YEAH BABY YEA~Edited by Vangy on August 8, 2016 2:07AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz3 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When this change comes to console I will probably stop doing top level writs. I have already set 3 or my character to do Craglorn writs as they provide survey maps with chance of Nirncrux to be found. I know they use more material than top level writs but to me the payoff is better, especially when harvesting everything as you travel between the survey locations.
Doing top level writs to Wrothgar using only top level material would never provide you with enough to replace the material you use and there are no 'in demand' items worth getting from the Wrothgar survey maps. Just roaming around farming is not my idea of fun, better to run some dungeons and earn gold and loot.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0 -
Glamdring✭✭✭✭✭Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »
I think this analogy is wrong.
Lets say you can sell the blackberries for $1 per pound (sell raw mats). You pick 100 and sell it at the market and make $100 profit.
Or you can make blackberry pies (writs). The pies sell for $2, but each requires 3 lbs of blackberries to make. Your profit is $66.
In both cases you make profit, but in the case of the pies you make less. In this case a loss of $34. Not to mention the time it took to make the pies.
Maybe this can make @imnotanother understand why he looses money and time by making thoose blueberry pies errr sry i mean writs , but i doubt it after reading his reasoning in this thread
Edited by Glamdring on August 8, 2016 6:10AM0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »
I think this analogy is wrong.
Lets say you can sell the blackberries for $1 per pound (sell raw mats). You pick 100 and sell it at the market and make $100 profit.
Or you can make blackberry pies (writs). The pies sell for $2, but each requires 3 lbs of blackberries to make. Your profit is $66.
In both cases you make profit, but in the case of the pies you make less. In this case a loss of $34. Not to mention the time it took to make the pies.
Maybe this can make @imnotanother understand why he looses money and time by making thoose blueberry pies errr sry i mean writs , but i doubt it after reading his reasoning in this thread
I think ive come to understand something by reading this thread..... If everyone thinks like me..... And avoids selling blue berry pies.... Then the market for blueberries will crash... Which is bad for me.... So sure.... Im glad people think making blue berry pies errr writs are awesome....... That way I can make my living by selling blueberries err mats...(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz0 -
mike_de✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Travy_2Hype wrote: »But.. but.. they're so addicting!
However, they are a complete loss overall. Only thing I enjoy from them is getting the surveys, not to mention I still need the achievement for doing X amount of writs. After I hit that achievement, I'll most likely stop.
Provisioning, alchemy, and for the most part, Enchanting are still absolutely worth doing. If you just want the writ achievements, and don't care about getting it done right now, then those are a better route to go.
EDIT: I mean, that's the really confusing thing to me. The consumable writs actually help you build up a stockpile of useful materials. The equipment writs drain your material stockpiles on a dice roll for goodies, like glass pages and gold upgrade mats. I honestly don't know which is the intended outcome. Are writs supposed to be an expensive diceroll, or are they there to help players get the crafting mats they need to make the stuff they actually want?
I stopped doing equipment writs on level 30! You cannot get anything with them. They have to fix this system, because any person with half a brain sees, that this will not get you the real amount of money and time you invested in it, only gathering the mats.
They have to change the things, you get out of these writs. And the value has to reflect the amount and value of mats you put into it. Think about it: Someone who crafts things, has usually to live from the gains.
Even the experience gain is ridiculous. It does not match the skill of your crafters at all.
The writs in the crafting system are deeply flawed, like the whole loot system in ESO. It needs to be fixed.Edited by mike_de on August 8, 2016 11:23AM0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.
Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.
Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.
But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.
You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.
Bean counters have a restricted short term view
you do not learn how to make potions by doing writs, simply because you do the same few potions over and over again - so do not come with that -. this has nothing to do with writs anymore.
[Edited to remove inappropriate comment.]
Have you forgotten about the inspiration you get from completing writs?
Apparently you have. Don't bother apologizing, your silence will suffice.Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on August 8, 2016 12:25PM1 -
mike_de✭✭✭imnotanother wrote: »
prof·itimnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Get off your butts and farm the mats. 100% profit.
"There is no such thing as a free lunch. "
.......
Except the whole point of crafting dailies is to help u get mats that you need to craft..... The gold mats are just icing.... Right now its costing me mats.... Id rather just farm mats and NOT do the dailies for an even bigger profit.... Or is simple math a little hard for you to comprehend.... When something costs you more than what you get in return, its not a 100% profit.. Its a LOSS...... In this case a pretty sizeable one...
Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
....................... Wow im really going to have to explain this step by step arent I.......
1. Farm mats.
2. Refine mats for gold tempers waxes etc
3. Sell refined mats
More profit than doing crafting dailies for equipment writs. Is this really so complex to understand? So educate me again on how you arrived at your 100% profit result?
It is in the quote. It is simple. You are making it hard.
1. Wrothgar, Hews Bane, and Gold Coast have mats...they are free to pick up. (Free)
2. Pick up writ quest. Make gear with free mats you farmed. (Free)
3. Turn in writs. (Free)
4. Open reward packages. (Free)
5. Receive XP, gold, glass frags,Gold upgrades, gear, and surveys. (Profit)
6. Sell upgrades/glass (profit)
7. Sell/decon gear (profit)
8. Farm surveys (free)
9. Refine mats (free)
10. Sell mats/ upgrades (profit)
11. Repeat
Where are you having a hard time understanding my point?
Crafting writs are not a source of gaining materials (considering it cost materials); it is a source to earn gold, XP, glass frags, gold upgrades.
No one argued that farming mats isn't a great way to make money either. Crafting writs are just another source.
Yikes, still doesn't get it.
ˈpräfət/
noun
1.
a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.
I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)
Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.
I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.
Your time you gather the mats is missing in your calculation.0 -
C4rt3r_H4ll✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »That's why imho noone can say for everyone and in all cases that equipment writs are or are not profitable or worth/not worth doing.
It depends on the situation of the mats markets for each particular tier of writs, and it all evolves over time, mats prices can inflate or deflate by a factor of x10 in a matter of weeks.
All we need to do is to be careful and never assume that surveys are always profitable - they're not, and most of all, never assume they're meant for us to gather more mats. Clearly, they ALWAYS cost more mats than they bring.
See that's the thing that makes me wonder..... If they are not always profitable, and they take away more mats than they bring... Why refer to them as dailies.... Altho... its us players that refer to them as dailies.... Not ZOS. So maybe this is ZOS intention all along... For them to be a once in a while turn in things rather than every day.
Well... they're repeatable quests limited to once a day, so technically they're dailies.
I think players should always be able to assume safely that any activity available in the game will bring them some benefit (gold, XP, loot, whatever). If sometimes it's not the case, then it's flawed design from ZOS. You shouldn't actually have to wonder if you're shooting yourself in the foot when you pick up a quest.
That said, having to use my brain every now and then in the game is a nice thing. Brain is a bit underused in ESO.
First off the benefit(s) are PLAYING A GAME. The "sometimes it's not the case" is replay value.
Got to page 5 and couldn't stomach anymore of the dribble of pseudo economists without jumping to page 9 (end of thread at time of posting) and adding my 2 cents.My apologies to pages 6,7,and 8.
With that being said they ARE worth doing if your situation is anything like mine:
A) Blast Trials and/or Dungeons hoping for that one last piece of gear to complete your set,
Receive a bunch of fodder, such as "Ice Staff of the Viper"
C) Pick up writ(s) en route to crafting station
D) Use mats from fodder to complete writ
E) Repeat; by the time you finally get the item you want you have accumulated enough legendary mats to fully upgrade item while replenishing your stock of repair kits0 -
Lord_Draevan✭✭✭✭✭
✭According to the new Patch Notes v2.5.6:
"Clothier, Blacksmith, and Woodworker Surveys in Wrothgar no longer contain a mixture of CP 90-140 and CP 150-160 nodes, and now contain exclusively CP 150-160 nodes."
Hope it helps.I'm a man of few words. Any questions?NA/PC server1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.imnotanother wrote: »Simmer down
How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).
The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.
But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.
The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = BS
Give up they do not understand it.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.
The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.
And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.
I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.
Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.
And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.
You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time
But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.
I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.
The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.
It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.
Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.
The choice is yours
And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...
It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.
And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.
Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.
Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.
But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.
You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.
Bean counters have a restricted short term view
you do not learn how to make potions by doing writs, simply because you do the same few potions over and over again - so do not come with that -. this has nothing to do with writs anymore.
Such gross stupidity!
Have you forgotten about the inspiration you get from completing writs?
Apparently you have. Don't bother apologizing, your silence will suffice.
@I_killed_Vivec You seem to see learning just as gaining inspiration points, but you learn nothing about the ingredients from accumulating points, you just get access to more skills - I meant with it more finding out what all those ingredients do - as in research - and with this I do NOT mean google for it, but finding out by yourself - and you do not do that by doing writs - you have to do many different potions to figure out all the 4 features of each ingredient. Doing the same few potions over and over again with writs grants you "inspiration" which advance your level in that craft, yes, but you won't gain knowledge from it.
This is how I meant it.
Of course you can just google for what those ingredients do - but this is not playing the game, that is cheating basically - not forbidden in this case, but the whole purpose of having these features of ingredients hidden at first is to find it out by yourself. And that is what the achievements for any such ingredients are for - to reward you for your effort to finding that out by yourself by experimenting - and doing writs is not experimenting, but doing the same stuff over and over and over again.
And from you argumentation i gather, that you have not found out by yourself - otherwise you would know that it is work to find that out and that writs provide nothing in regards to gaining this knowledge.Edited by Lysette on August 8, 2016 12:44PM2
