STOP DOING EQUIPMENT WRITS
-
imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭imnotanother wrote: »@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.
You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.
I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.
You lose money compared to if you would just sell the mats. I understand your position, that harvesting mats doesn't bother you so no matter what you win. You're being intentionally obtuse though if you don't understand what everyone else is saying in that after you have the mats harvested, you'd be better off financially just selling them and not doing the writ.
I never argued that point. But at the same time, you have the potential to earn more by obtaining gold tempers, glass frags, etc. so you can not definitely say one will always earn more.
What I am trying to say, your character will have a financial gain either way. Your character will not lose gold, unless they buy the mats to do the writs...which is lazy and silly.
But I am done with this thread. I have, for the most part, tried to respond with tact but this thread has been very hateful.PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready3 -
nine9six✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know why you guys keep trying to explain things. The point has been made. Let people do whatever they want.Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...4 -
Cazzy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »
This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)
Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.
I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.
No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.
Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.
You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.
In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.
The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.
My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.
I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.
Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;
You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.
To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?
In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.
Learn to finance...
Thank you for the insults but in your examples, there is never a loss of money on my end. I gain 100 dollars or a happy girlfriend who may reward me infinitely for the gift. I either have a 100 or a diamond ring. But I never did I lose money that was already in my pocket. I gained something.
Now you, and others, say learn to finance. This is a video game were you literally harvest materials from the wild wih a button push. The cost is free because I am not paying the farmer, processor, blacksmith, etc to be able to have the crafting materials. Sure you can say that I could make more selling mats directly, I am not arguing that.
Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.
But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.
Freelance? Work from home?
I always struggle to get motivated 
I own and operate an independent record label.
Ooh we'd have a lot to talk about then!
I owned an artist management company and worked with some festivals, my cousin runs his own record label too! 2 -
milkbox✭✭✭✭✭I throw this in the ring: writs have gotten boring.
Not too many people care about glass motifs and frags anymore. I get the same 6 provisioning recipes over and over. I have so many trait stones that I could go into business making Fabrege eggs.
We got the furrier's crates in this update, which is nice, but that's it. (Poison mats got added too, but take a look at any PC guild store and you'll see hundreds, not moving).
Writs really were the only thing that kept me logging in on a daily basis- I think it's time to add new "prizes" to chase to make it fun again. The system deserves an upgrade.
I went from doing writs on 3 characters daily to maybe twice a week on one character. I hope they take notice of threads like this and take some steps to keep writs addictive and profitable.4 -
cravnbeer✭✭✭I prefer the old writs. I thought the cost of mats was the whole reason they had not upgraded the writs in the first place.Edited by cravnbeer on August 5, 2016 1:13PM2 -
imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Cazzy
That is awesome. We deal, usually, directly with the promoters when booking events.
I originally managed a band and myself as well. Loved it. Then we decided to take the leap and start our own label.
Best decision ever. Love having complete artistic control of the projects, we are able to pay our musicians much better advancements, and we earn all the profits.
Been dealing with some majors
For distribution rights, and I am not missing their business tactics.PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
However, he has not made a real loss on the apple, just not made as much as he could have. The tax man will still want to tax his profits and he will get short shrift claiming that it was in fact a loss because he could sell at higher prices.
Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
Personally, I have an abundance of materials and I'd rather do writs than just sell, even if selling could make me more money.3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know why you guys keep trying to explain things. The point has been made. Let people do whatever they want.
Yes but no.
The point is actually not to make @imnotanother change his mind, but for ZOS.
If doing something way A grants 50 quid profit, and doing that same thing way B grants 100 quid profit, how do you qualify way A ? A "less profitable way" or "a lossy way" ?
At this stage this converstaion is pointless because all has been said already.
What matters to me is that ZOS ( @ZOS_RichLambert ) get that sometimes doing writs is a mistake. If doing a quest is a mistake, there's a design issue.
I understand that the devs cannot follow the mats markets as closely as we players, especially trader players, do. But they should make some effort to balance things better.
- Writs should be handed over in the zone where we picked them up (we get to choose our survey/mats type)
- There should be extra RNG rewards (like recipe fragments or glass fragments, but those are outdated) to make them worthwhile. How about a "token" to learn a trait instantly ?
2 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't think it's a "mistake" to do writs.
It might be sub-optimal when measured by in-game gold but that is only one criterion. As I said, I prefer to do writs (my crafter actually crafting) than just passively selling materials.
And even then, the time spent farming and refining materials might be "better" (in terms of in-game gold) spent doing something else, such as grinding which has the additional benefit of providing XP. So is farming a "mistake"?
The real problem with writs is that they are so repetitive - both in terms of work and reward. Always the same items to create, for essentially the same reward. In particular there is no increased reward for a master crafter who has learnt all the traits - in fact there is less because inspiration is meaningless.
Writs should give bonuses for added "difficulty" - add a specific trait, make it green, create a triple-reagent potion or blue food.0 -
Smitch_59✭✭✭✭✭But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!4 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
2 -
Giraffon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is anyone else excited that loading screens in Wrothgar seem to have gone away? I am! Doing consumable writs just got a lot better for me! I used to get so close to that stinking board and then I'd get a loading screen! Argh! Now since the last patch I can just trot right up to it. Hurrah!
In fact, I ran all over Wrothgar last night and I don't recall any loading screens at all!Giraffon - Beta Lizard - For the Pact!0 -
imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready0 -
Taia✭✭imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.
You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.
I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.
You lose money compared to if you would just sell the mats. I understand your position, that harvesting mats doesn't bother you so no matter what you win. You're being intentionally obtuse though if you don't understand what everyone else is saying in that after you have the mats harvested, you'd be better off financially just selling them and not doing the writ.
I never argued that point. But at the same time, you have the potential to earn more by obtaining gold tempers, glass frags, etc. so you can not definitely say one will always earn more.
What I am trying to say, your character will have a financial gain either way. Your character will not lose gold, unless they buy the mats to do the writs...which is lazy and silly.
But I am done with this thread. I have, for the most part, tried to respond with tact but this thread has been very hateful.imnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
Thought you were done with this "hateful" thread, this just proves you are arguing with emotion not logic or reason. I am beginning to think this guy lives in a parallel universe as this is the only explanation as to why we live in completely different realities.Edited by Taia on August 5, 2016 3:46PM0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It has nothing to do with Gold, it has everything to do with Mats.
Prior to the update, I was not using up my mats to do the Top Tier Writs, I was gaining, slowly, but I was gaining mats. Mats are the currency of writs, its what you use and what you get back. Gold is just a tip, but no where what you need to replace the mats. Time is also an issue, spending 30 to 60 minutes farming for mats to do the writs to end up in a net mat loss anyway is just spinning my wheels. I could do much more efficient things with my time than that, even if that is just farming for the mats.
As long as Durable Writs remain a net mat loss, I will not do them. I did not do Tier 9 writs, which are way more mat intensive for the same reasons.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"5 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unrealized income is not a loss.
Income that you might have received, but did not receive, is not a loss.
Example, income that Goldman Sachs might have received from heavy bank fees, but did not receive, is not the same as GS actually losing value.
When you have a profit (are worth more now than before) and the profit is not as big as is could have been, YOU STILL HAVE THAT SMALL PROFIT!
In stock market terms, a profit that is smaller than it could have been is "disappointing". It is not a loss.
In old school parlance, the phrase would be "Do not count your chickens before they hatch."
Sheesh.Xbox NA5 -
Elfbait✭✭✭I only did equipment crafting writs for inspiration as I leveled the skill. I bought stacks of mats at reasonable prices if my own gatherings ran out, and once I maxed the skill, I stopped doing equipment writs. They were tedious to fulfill and only sporadically satisfying in terms of rewards, and I no longer needed the inspiration they granted.
Consumables writs are another matter. I still do these regularly, and enjoy all steps of the process- gathering, assembling, delivery, reward. Well, except for dropping them off in Orsinium. But using the Shatul wayshrine makes it less of a bother.0 -
imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.
You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.
I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.
You lose money compared to if you would just sell the mats. I understand your position, that harvesting mats doesn't bother you so no matter what you win. You're being intentionally obtuse though if you don't understand what everyone else is saying in that after you have the mats harvested, you'd be better off financially just selling them and not doing the writ.
I never argued that point. But at the same time, you have the potential to earn more by obtaining gold tempers, glass frags, etc. so you can not definitely say one will always earn more.
What I am trying to say, your character will have a financial gain either way. Your character will not lose gold, unless they buy the mats to do the writs...which is lazy and silly.
But I am done with this thread. I have, for the most part, tried to respond with tact but this thread has been very hateful.imnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
Thought you were done with this "hateful" thread, this just proves you are arguing with emotion not logic or reason. I am beginning to think this guy lives in a parallel universe as this is the only explanation as to why we live in completely different realities.
Sorry, I had to speak up when everyone is using the wrong terms and equations to reach their stance.
I don't expect someone who is unaware of accounting/bookkeeping to understand the reality of business transaction and how you reach a profit.PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready1 -
Taia✭✭imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.
You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.
I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.
You lose money compared to if you would just sell the mats. I understand your position, that harvesting mats doesn't bother you so no matter what you win. You're being intentionally obtuse though if you don't understand what everyone else is saying in that after you have the mats harvested, you'd be better off financially just selling them and not doing the writ.
I never argued that point. But at the same time, you have the potential to earn more by obtaining gold tempers, glass frags, etc. so you can not definitely say one will always earn more.
What I am trying to say, your character will have a financial gain either way. Your character will not lose gold, unless they buy the mats to do the writs...which is lazy and silly.
But I am done with this thread. I have, for the most part, tried to respond with tact but this thread has been very hateful.imnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
Thought you were done with this "hateful" thread, this just proves you are arguing with emotion not logic or reason. I am beginning to think this guy lives in a parallel universe as this is the only explanation as to why we live in completely different realities.
Sorry, I had to speak up when everyone is using the wrong terms and equations to reach their stance.
I don't expect someone who is unaware of accounting/bookkeeping to understand the reality of business transaction and how you reach a profit.
I don't expect someone who is so emotional over the subject matter they can't keep their own word to be able to make a sound argument, oh look I was right. Now try and do what you say without letting your emotions completely control you.0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭imnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
I wouldn't say you have "zero" expenses for farming materials, that's an issue of opportunity cost.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭imnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
I wouldn't say you have "zero" expenses for farming materials, that's an issue of opportunity cost.
@Recremen no point arguing with him. HE OWNS A RECORD LABEL.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points4 -
imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.
You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.
I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.
You lose money compared to if you would just sell the mats. I understand your position, that harvesting mats doesn't bother you so no matter what you win. You're being intentionally obtuse though if you don't understand what everyone else is saying in that after you have the mats harvested, you'd be better off financially just selling them and not doing the writ.
I never argued that point. But at the same time, you have the potential to earn more by obtaining gold tempers, glass frags, etc. so you can not definitely say one will always earn more.
What I am trying to say, your character will have a financial gain either way. Your character will not lose gold, unless they buy the mats to do the writs...which is lazy and silly.
But I am done with this thread. I have, for the most part, tried to respond with tact but this thread has been very hateful.imnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
Thought you were done with this "hateful" thread, this just proves you are arguing with emotion not logic or reason. I am beginning to think this guy lives in a parallel universe as this is the only explanation as to why we live in completely different realities.
Sorry, I had to speak up when everyone is using the wrong terms and equations to reach their stance.
I don't expect someone who is unaware of accounting/bookkeeping to understand the reality of business transaction and how you reach a profit.
I don't expect someone who is so emotional over the subject matter they can't keep their own word to be able to make a sound argument, oh look I was right. Now try and do what you say without letting your emotions completely control you.
You have some odd mannerisms.
Are you aware of the definition of ad hominem attacks?
I am sorry I am stating facts over opinions, posting the proper terms and equations.
I'm sorry the concept of accounting goes over your head. It did for me one time too, until I took accounting courses.
My statements are full of logic and reason...and emotion. Feel free to look up the facts, in that parallel universe you supposedly reside in.
Until then, quit tagging me in your post. I'm only responding to your ignorant statements. Sorry.
PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready2 -
Taia✭✭imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.
You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.
I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.
You lose money compared to if you would just sell the mats. I understand your position, that harvesting mats doesn't bother you so no matter what you win. You're being intentionally obtuse though if you don't understand what everyone else is saying in that after you have the mats harvested, you'd be better off financially just selling them and not doing the writ.
I never argued that point. But at the same time, you have the potential to earn more by obtaining gold tempers, glass frags, etc. so you can not definitely say one will always earn more.
What I am trying to say, your character will have a financial gain either way. Your character will not lose gold, unless they buy the mats to do the writs...which is lazy and silly.
But I am done with this thread. I have, for the most part, tried to respond with tact but this thread has been very hateful.imnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
Thought you were done with this "hateful" thread, this just proves you are arguing with emotion not logic or reason. I am beginning to think this guy lives in a parallel universe as this is the only explanation as to why we live in completely different realities.
Sorry, I had to speak up when everyone is using the wrong terms and equations to reach their stance.
I don't expect someone who is unaware of accounting/bookkeeping to understand the reality of business transaction and how you reach a profit.
I don't expect someone who is so emotional over the subject matter they can't keep their own word to be able to make a sound argument, oh look I was right. Now try and do what you say without letting your emotions completely control you.
You have some odd mannerisms.
Are you aware of the definition of ad hominem attacks?
I am sorry I am stating facts over opinions, posting the proper terms and equations.
I'm sorry the concept of accounting goes over your head. It did for me one time too, until I took accounting courses.
My statements are full of logic and reason...and emotion. Feel free to look up the facts, in that parallel universe you supposedly reside in.
Until then, quit tagging me in your post. I'm only responding to your ignorant statements. Sorry.
This right here kids is what happens when you are more invested in winning an argument than truth. I can tag you in as many posts as I want, thank you. Perhaps take your own advice and leave the thread like you already said you were? And there have been pages of threads telling you how ignorant you are, so again might want to check in with reality from time to time.0 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭imnotanother wrote: »Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.
But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.
I think this analogy is wrong.
Lets say you can sell the blackberries for $1 per pound (sell raw mats). You pick 100 and sell it at the market and make $100 profit.
Or you can make blackberry pies (writs). The pies sell for $2, but each requires 3 lbs of blackberries to make. Your profit is $66.
In both cases you make profit, but in the case of the pies you make less. In this case a loss of $34. Not to mention the time it took to make the pies.1 -
imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@Recremenimnotanother wrote: »But if everyone took the OP's advice and stopped doing writs, and listed their mats in the guild stores instead, then the mats market would soon be flooded, prices would drop, and writs would suddenly become profitable again.
Shhh don't speak common sense in this thread.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I'danitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »imnotanother wrote: »Haha I get it man. I really do but you never lose anything. You might make less...but never lose anything.
Sorry @imnotanother , but if you have 1 apple, customer A is ready to pay 5 dollars for that apple, customer B is ready to pay 10 dollars for that apple, and you choose to sell it to customer A, then you've not earned 5 dollars, you've clearly lost 5 dollars.
That's math. Not opinion.
It's not maths, it's semantics.
In this example, say the apple trader buys apples at wholesale prices of 1g per apple. He sold the apple at 5g to one customer, rather than 10g to another.
His profit IS 4g - that is maths.
His profit could have been 9g - which shows an opportunity loss of 5g.
No. It's not semantics.
Moment A :
You have 1000 gold. Global asset 1000.
Moment B :
You farm 1 apple. Market price of apple is 10g. Global asset 1010.
Moment C :
option C1 : You sell the apple 5g:
Global assets : 1005.
option C2 : you sell the apple for 10g.
Global assets : 1010.
Option C1 shows a 5g LOSS as compared to Moment B.
You can argue that C1 and C2 options BOTH show a gain as compared to moment A, but that's assuming the apple was worth nothing, which is untrue : it was part of your assets before you sold it. No accounting law will let you estimate the value of your assets lower than market price.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Another example given was crafting armour for someone. If it costs 5g in materials but one crafter sells it for 10g then I might choose to undercut that price and sell for 9g. I will have made a 4g profit, and in this case there isn't even an opportunity loss, because trying to sell at 10g might result in failure to sell at all.
If you cannot sell at 10g it means market price is NOT 10g. Per definition.
You and others keep thinking you value the good at a retail value. In business we use the term Cost of goods sold (COGS).
Cogs = the price it took for the good to be made. (Apple cost 1g but has a retail Value of 10g)
Income = gross revenue.
Profit/NOL = gross revenue - expenses(COGS)
So when an apple is sold for 5g(gross) minus 1g (COGS) you equal a 4g profit.
Now in Eso, I don't have to pay a miner/logger/or farmer to obtain raw goods.
I also don't pay a foundry/sawmill/clothier to refine the goods.
No freight/transportation charges.
No labor cost
So to obtain a stack of materials, you literally have 0 expenses.
Now when I use a stack of materials to complete writs, the COGS are 0.
Take whatever gross revenue - cogs = the profit made from completing writs.
Same in the store, you list the same stack for X amount.
X - cogs- listing fee- house cut = profit.
Never do you factor in the the retail value when determining your profit.
Because if you valued a stack at 5k and sold it for 5k - expenses = you'd be left with a net loss.
I wouldn't say you have "zero" expenses for farming materials, that's an issue of opportunity cost.
@Recremen no point arguing with him. HE OWNS A RECORD LABEL.
Technically, opportunity cost is not an expense. It usually is not even considered by an accountant. A manager/foreman, will assess a situation to determine opportunity cost.
Ex: will concert in Chicago net more than a Concert in Detroit?
@Erock25
Yes, I own a business and deal with this situation daily. Sorry don't be upset.
PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GwwwsaAaaaaAAAAAA!
TIME HAS A VALUE
There is no such thing as, "free"
Every second you spend farming mats to waste on writs you are NOT doing something MORE profitable
SO in the above arguments, the person farming that keeps saying it's "free" is way off.
To me 1 hour is equivalent to 13 - 20k gold. If i go out. It's to grab roughly 200 mats an hour, I get an average of 1 gold item per stack, so if I do anything and don't get 13k worth of gold, I'm losing money.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hi, my name is Bear, and I am a writ-o-holic. (Hi Bear).
I have come to the same conclusion. I am going to take a break from writs for a bit. I usually do them on 5 toons, and have been faithful to the point of insanity in doing them since the days of craglorn. They have literally made me millions in straight gold and even more in gold mats. The writs themselves have always come at a net loss in mats, but the surveys and gold mats more than made up for it.
Problem is that there is now a disconnect because they changed the input and not the output (surveys still dropping V14 Mats). Once that is addressed, I am sure it will be back to normal.
As crazy as it sounds, there were periods of time when this game was not in a great spot that basically the only reason I logged in was to do writs. I have often wondered if they are actually the reason I still play. Not because they are fun, but because they were meaningful in helping my account amass wealth. That's what dailys are supposed to do. Give you a reason to log on every day, even if they are a little repetitive and boring. This really needs to be addressed soon.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on August 5, 2016 4:54PM3
