No, it won't be global, instead similar bonuses will have to be unlocked via the TG/DB or Iron Wheel passives.I guess its not hard to tell I actually never entered Cyrodiil myself very insightful though
Will there be such a global effect active for new players that take on the role of enforcer or outlaw?
Every player in Cyrodiil currently has a 50% damage reduction bonus. Balance (or the lack thereof) on the live servers currently have this damage reduction in mind.The concept not promoting intentional pvp ,but looking more like a cat and mose game where outlaws are given strengths to escape and enforcers strengths to pursue,agree that that should be the main focus.
But just imagine a tank nightblade outlaw to have the extra passive that now reduces damage taken by enforcer by 5/10/15/20%
Or a dragonknight enforcer tank with unyielding gaurd,reducing damage taken from wanted players by 10/20/30/40%
When the strengths become combat related i'm a bit concerned about balance still.
Shouldn't these strengths to escape & strengths to pursue remain unrelated to actual combat strength?
Imagine if a player can already be that powerful in cyrodiil, how powerful they'd be with the passives you mention there.
Actually, no. Not every attempt at fleeing results in a PvP Justice fight. When the Outlaws first exit the Cell room, there is a timer that is counting down. Their group has that much time to finish the dungeon before Enforcers get notified and teleported into the Prison dungeon. The exact amount of time should be carefully picked based on testing results.And in that scenario of the prison where the outlaw only has the option to escape left,I bet the oulaw always has to encounter enforcers each attempt to escape?
but if one of both gets overpowered,combat-wise,I imagine it could become frustrating,rather than fun.
"
The Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforces to get a Large circle on the map for 30 seconds when an Outlaw becomes Fugitive,
indicating an approximate location where the crime was committed. Each subsequent crime spotted while Fugitive will refresh the circle and reduce it's radius.
"
So for each crime the outlaw commits,the radius transforms more and more to the exact/accurate location of the outlaw?
So I assume the outlaw will have the ability to counter that by using subterfuge and by doing certain manoeuvres to go undercover?
Overall I think the focus on the outlaw's strengths to escape and the enforcers strengths to pursue should reflect more in the proposal.
I have added a new Section at the end called "Discussion Feedback" with the current issues that need resolving or improvement:
- Players avoiding bounty payment by removing gold from inventory.
- Swimming Hounds - is it the best solution?
- Possible exploits and ways to grief.
- What are your experiences with the current Justice System?
Also added this line in the PvP Justice rewards, from a suggestion made by @IndyWendiGo:Lawful Immovable Draught
- Enforcers are sometimes rewarded with new potions:
Become immune to knockback and disabling effects for 11 seconds.
Restores 6695 Health immediately.
Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for 22,1 seconds.
Lawful Defending Draught
Restores 6695 Health immediately.
Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for 22,1 seconds.
Grants you Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 8% for 22,1 seconds.
I'm surprised we don't have a prison system in ESO considering the story of the franchise with prisons and the like.
I'm surprised we don't have a prison system in ESO considering the story of the franchise with prisons and the like.
Well there are numerous cases where during quests you get thrown into cells and the like. they all tend to be setup so you get out of the cell after a few clicks of dialog and are then off and on with your activities in very short order and iirc in all cases you can wayshrine out to go do other stuff if you want.
ESO was designed with a common element that you are not locked into any activity for a period of time. I dont know of any cases at all where casual repeatable activities (solo or group) would result in any locked into situations.
There may be exceptions - those couple of quest specific stages where you jump into the past for a few minutes - though I never tested whether or not you could shrine out of those. They were always so brief, never wanted to.
That overall design pattern would seem to make some sort of prison that keeps you into the prison content out of sorts unless its just a couple minutes.
I think the difference is that being an MMO, unlike a standalone game where it is just you, locking a character out of "all the other activities" is a serious thing - not just the current set of circumstances to play thru - and can have profound impacts on the group and team side of things.
Just my thoughts
I'm surprised we don't have a prison system in ESO considering the story of the franchise with prisons and the like.
Well there are numerous cases where during quests you get thrown into cells and the like. they all tend to be setup so you get out of the cell after a few clicks of dialog and are then off and on with your activities in very short order and iirc in all cases you can wayshrine out to go do other stuff if you want.
ESO was designed with a common element that you are not locked into any activity for a period of time. I dont know of any cases at all where casual repeatable activities (solo or group) would result in any locked into situations.
There may be exceptions - those couple of quest specific stages where you jump into the past for a few minutes - though I never tested whether or not you could shrine out of those. They were always so brief, never wanted to.
That overall design pattern would seem to make some sort of prison that keeps you into the prison content out of sorts unless its just a couple minutes.
I think the difference is that being an MMO, unlike a standalone game where it is just you, locking a character out of "all the other activities" is a serious thing - not just the current set of circumstances to play thru - and can have profound impacts on the group and team side of things.
Just my thoughts
There are several other games with prison systems, I find it a very interesting concept, a way of escape could be provided as well like in the single player games, where you would get a bounty if detected. If one wants to avoid jail then don't do the bad deed or don't get caught. As for the gameplay in prison, there is this mod that is quite fun:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26281/?
It could either be a single cell or a complex like Cidnah mine with activities to do to lower your time there. There is a lot of fun to be had in prison! I mean what...
I'm surprised we don't have a prison system in ESO considering the story of the franchise with prisons and the like.
Well there are numerous cases where during quests you get thrown into cells and the like. they all tend to be setup so you get out of the cell after a few clicks of dialog and are then off and on with your activities in very short order and iirc in all cases you can wayshrine out to go do other stuff if you want.
ESO was designed with a common element that you are not locked into any activity for a period of time. I dont know of any cases at all where casual repeatable activities (solo or group) would result in any locked into situations.
There may be exceptions - those couple of quest specific stages where you jump into the past for a few minutes - though I never tested whether or not you could shrine out of those. They were always so brief, never wanted to.
That overall design pattern would seem to make some sort of prison that keeps you into the prison content out of sorts unless its just a couple minutes.
I think the difference is that being an MMO, unlike a standalone game where it is just you, locking a character out of "all the other activities" is a serious thing - not just the current set of circumstances to play thru - and can have profound impacts on the group and team side of things.
Just my thoughts
There are several other games with prison systems, I find it a very interesting concept, a way of escape could be provided as well like in the single player games, where you would get a bounty if detected. If one wants to avoid jail then don't do the bad deed or don't get caught. As for the gameplay in prison, there is this mod that is quite fun:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26281/?
It could either be a single cell or a complex like Cidnah mine with activities to do to lower your time there. There is a lot of fun to be had in prison! I mean what...
I'm surprised we don't have a prison system in ESO considering the story of the franchise with prisons and the like.
Well there are numerous cases where during quests you get thrown into cells and the like. they all tend to be setup so you get out of the cell after a few clicks of dialog and are then off and on with your activities in very short order and iirc in all cases you can wayshrine out to go do other stuff if you want.
ESO was designed with a common element that you are not locked into any activity for a period of time. I dont know of any cases at all where casual repeatable activities (solo or group) would result in any locked into situations.
There may be exceptions - those couple of quest specific stages where you jump into the past for a few minutes - though I never tested whether or not you could shrine out of those. They were always so brief, never wanted to.
That overall design pattern would seem to make some sort of prison that keeps you into the prison content out of sorts unless its just a couple minutes.
I think the difference is that being an MMO, unlike a standalone game where it is just you, locking a character out of "all the other activities" is a serious thing - not just the current set of circumstances to play thru - and can have profound impacts on the group and team side of things.
Just my thoughts
There are several other games with prison systems, I find it a very interesting concept, a way of escape could be provided as well like in the single player games, where you would get a bounty if detected. If one wants to avoid jail then don't do the bad deed or don't get caught. As for the gameplay in prison, there is this mod that is quite fun:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26281/?
It could either be a single cell or a complex like Cidnah mine with activities to do to lower your time there. There is a lot of fun to be had in prison! I mean what...
There is an elaborate section on the Outlaw Prison idea presented in this concept:Outlaw Prison* - this is true provided Dueling Arenas are implemented at the same time or before implementing PvP Justice.
- By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instance called Court, where Outlaws are presented with three options: Withdraw Funds from Bank, Go to Prison, where players get transferred to another, group instance, or an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.
- Outlaws are automatically grouped upon entering, without the ability to leave group or disband.
- Outlaws lose all their stolen items when going to prison. All lockpicks and pardon Edicts get marked as Stolen and are stored along with other stolen items into a random container inside the Prison which cannot be looted by other players.
- A "Spare Guard Uniform" disguise can be found in one random container inside Prison, that can be worn as a tabard. Wearing it enables the player to be unnoticed by Guards or Enforcers. Finding it unlocks an achievement that grants the Guard costume (vanity only).
- When the heat and bounty of an Outlaw wears off, a portal is spawned inside the cell that takes the player out of Prison. The portal is not visible to and interactable by other players.
- The Prison dungeon has 6 cells and can host up to 6 Outlaw players, and up to 6 Enforcers that can port to the instance if it goes to high alert.
- Inside each cell there is exactly 1 stolen lockpick that can be found to pick the cell lock with. Taking the lockpick starts the shareable "Prison Break" quest. Players that open their cell doors may also go and pick the doors of other locked players, but cannot enter cells other than their own.
- The area outside the cell room is marked as Trespassing to Outlaws, marking them constantly as Wanted. This is the only Trespassing area Enforcers are able to visit, and Trespassing does not apply to them.
- Getting seen by a Guard or Enforcer while inside the Prison automatically locks your cell door permanently.
- Players that are killed by a Guard or Enforcer inside the Prison, and do not have enough gold to cover the bounty, are then transferred to their permanently locked cell. Otherwise, they get transferred out of Prison.
- Leaving the room with the cells automatically starts a visible dungeon timer that is shared among all Outlaws that leave the cell room. Getting noticed outside the cell room by a guard subtracts 1 minute from the timer. After the time expires, the instance goes to High Alert and On-Duty Enforcers get a queue notification to enter that instance.
- The first part of the instance is crawling with guards, some of which have Clairvoyance. The second part of the dungeon is purely PvE, and has no NPC Guards. Once inside the second part of Prison, it is impossible to return to the first part of the Prison.
- To get to the exit, Outlaws have to beat a few mini bosses and a Final boss in the second, PvE part of the prison. Monsters are also aggressive to Enforcers. The Final Boss is stationary, and clairvoyant. The Minibosses cannot be reset once aggroed, and will follow any players still alive until killed.
- Players may only be resurrected by other Outlaws while a Miniboss or Boss fight is ongoing, and there in no "wayshrine respawn point" if the group wipes.
On an unrelated note, I have added some more changes:
- Guards now have the Dawnbreaker of Smiting ultimate and Silver Leash added to their skill pool.
- Fast travel is disabled while in the Court/Solitary or Prison instance.
The fast travel is obvious, I just forgot to write it down.
As far as FG skills go, I think vampires have a huge advantage when escaping PvE Guards, so FG are added to add at least some risk for vampires (undead).
[*] When choosing the Bail Bondsman option, the bounty is then increased by 5% and transformed into "debt". The Criminal is then considered Upstanding, and is unable to perform any criminal activities (just like Enforcers) until the debt is paid. While in debt, players have the option to do the Community Service repeatable quests to reduce the debt. Otherwise, any gold is automatically detracted from the inventory.
[*] By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given called Court, where Outlaws are presented with three options: Withdraw Funds from Bank, Go to Prison, where players get transferred to another, group instance, or an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.[/list]
To reduce the amount of new instances, the Solitary Cell instance should be the same instance as the Court instance, as they are both individual player instances.
@Dubhliam[*] When choosing the Bail Bondsman option, the bounty is then increased by 5% and transformed into "debt". The Criminal is then considered Upstanding, and is unable to perform any criminal activities (just like Enforcers) until the debt is paid. While in debt, players have the option to do the Community Service repeatable quests to reduce the debt. Otherwise, any gold is automatically detracted from the inventory.
[*] By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given called Court, where Outlaws are presented with three options: Withdraw Funds from Bank, Go to Prison, where players get transferred to another, group instance, or an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.[/list]
To reduce the amount of new instances, the Solitary Cell instance should be the same instance as the Court instance, as they are both individual player instances.
I'd do "bail bondsman choice" differently
So the bounty is transformed to debt ,I follow that part.
Still, that debt is good for a certain amount of jailtime if the player choosing this option cant meet the condition of paying off the debt while enjoying the provisional release.
Community service will reduce the debt.Stealing items will add 400 debt for 1 item,second steal 1000 debt,3rd stealth attempt ;the conditions are violated in such a way that the criminal is send back to jail. (here comes the penalty 5% extra bounty to pay off )
If however the criminal shows good behavior by doing activities like community service,that "good time" is counted towards time served.
So lets say a criminal/outlaw has a bounty of 30 000 ,sat out 15 OOO in prison & paid off 15000 debt by doing community service ,the player becomes upholding again.
Or if the criminal outlaw had a bounty/debt of 30000 and is only able to pay off 10000 with community service,the other 20000 still needs to be paid,or sat out in jail.
But if the criminal /outlaw has a bounty of 30 000 ,sat out 15 000 in prison & commits crime during bondsman choice,the penalty of 750 is added + 400 + 1000( + the penalties and debt of any other crime.)
So the criminal goes back to prison again with at least 17.150 debt/bounty.(maybe even a debt/bounty higher as before if he/she is not careful)
Murder would add 2000 for each victim while under conditions of the bondsman,instead of 3 chances with stealing,
guards would try to recatch you immediately for murder..
I wouldn't take away the ability to commit crime,but make them pay dearly if they violate the release conditions
If they behave badly while promising they 'll behave,thats all they deserve.
Ofcourse they'd be under "surveillance",if its under certain release conditions
in stonefalls there even is a quest where one of the questgivers can follow you around in the city without actually being there..
They could do this many many ways
@Dubhliam
The basics need to be presented as simple as possible to avoid people to be overwhelmed,true
I think the justice system is about bringing new options for players to the game.
Providing players with even more ingame options for justice gameplay will only see to it that the system grows in complexity..
This is not a problem I think ,if you have a solid foundation.
When you write it out it sometimes seems complex,but thats not a reason for not to include it.
There is still a lot of room for improvement I believe,judging from your videos.[*] When choosing the Bail Bondsman option, the bounty is then increased by 5% and transformed into "debt". The Criminal is then considered Upstanding, and is unable to perform any criminal activities (just like Enforcers) until the debt is paid. While in debt, players have the option to do the Community Service repeatable quests to reduce the debt. Otherwise, any gold is automatically detracted from the inventory.
[*] By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given called Court, where Outlaws are presented with three options: Withdraw Funds from Bank, Go to Prison, where players get transferred to another, group instance, or an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.[/list]
To reduce the amount of new instances, the Solitary Cell instance should be the same instance as the Court instance, as they are both individual player instances.
I'd do "bail bondsman choice" differently
So the bounty is transformed to debt ,I follow that part.
Still, that debt is good for a certain amount of jailtime if the player choosing this option cant meet the condition of paying off the debt while enjoying the provisional release.
Community service will reduce the debt.Stealing items will add 400 debt for 1 item,second steal 1000 debt,3rd stealth attempt ;the conditions are violated in such a way that the criminal is send back to jail. (here comes the penalty 5% extra bounty to pay off )
If however the criminal shows good behavior by doing activities like community service,that "good time" is counted towards time served.
So lets say a criminal/outlaw has a bounty of 30 000 ,sat out 15 OOO in prison & paid off 15000 debt by doing community service ,the player becomes upholding again.
Or if the criminal outlaw had a bounty/debt of 30000 and is only able to pay off 10000 with community service,the other 20000 still needs to be paid,or sat out in jail.
But if the criminal /outlaw has a bounty of 30 000 ,sat out 15 000 in prison & commits crime during bondsman choice,the penalty of 750 is added + 400 + 1000( + the penalties and debt of any other crime.)
So the criminal goes back to prison again with at least 17.150 debt/bounty.(maybe even a debt/bounty higher as before if he/she is not careful)
Murder would add 2000 for each victim while under conditions of the bondsman,instead of 3 chances with stealing,
guards would try to recatch you immediately for murder..
I wouldn't take away the ability to commit crime,but make them pay dearly if they violate the release conditions
If they behave badly while promising they 'll behave,thats all they deserve.
@Dubhliam
The basics need to be presented as simple as possible to avoid people to be overwhelmed,true
I think the justice system is about bringing new options for players to the game.
Providing players with even more ingame options for justice gameplay will only see to it that the system grows in complexity..
This is not a problem I think ,if you have a solid foundation.
When you write it out it sometimes seems complex,but thats not a reason for not to include it.
There is still a lot of room for improvement I believe,judging from your videos.[*] When choosing the Bail Bondsman option, the bounty is then increased by 5% and transformed into "debt". The Criminal is then considered Upstanding, and is unable to perform any criminal activities (just like Enforcers) until the debt is paid. While in debt, players have the option to do the Community Service repeatable quests to reduce the debt. Otherwise, any gold is automatically detracted from the inventory.
[*] By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given called Court, where Outlaws are presented with three options: Withdraw Funds from Bank, Go to Prison, where players get transferred to another, group instance, or an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.[/list]
To reduce the amount of new instances, the Solitary Cell instance should be the same instance as the Court instance, as they are both individual player instances.
I'd do "bail bondsman choice" differently
So the bounty is transformed to debt ,I follow that part.
Still, that debt is good for a certain amount of jailtime if the player choosing this option cant meet the condition of paying off the debt while enjoying the provisional release.
Community service will reduce the debt.Stealing items will add 400 debt for 1 item,second steal 1000 debt,3rd stealth attempt ;the conditions are violated in such a way that the criminal is send back to jail. (here comes the penalty 5% extra bounty to pay off )
If however the criminal shows good behavior by doing activities like community service,that "good time" is counted towards time served.
So lets say a criminal/outlaw has a bounty of 30 000 ,sat out 15 OOO in prison & paid off 15000 debt by doing community service ,the player becomes upholding again.
Or if the criminal outlaw had a bounty/debt of 30000 and is only able to pay off 10000 with community service,the other 20000 still needs to be paid,or sat out in jail.
But if the criminal /outlaw has a bounty of 30 000 ,sat out 15 000 in prison & commits crime during bondsman choice,the penalty of 750 is added + 400 + 1000( + the penalties and debt of any other crime.)
So the criminal goes back to prison again with at least 17.150 debt/bounty.(maybe even a debt/bounty higher as before if he/she is not careful)
Murder would add 2000 for each victim while under conditions of the bondsman,instead of 3 chances with stealing,
guards would try to recatch you immediately for murder..
I wouldn't take away the ability to commit crime,but make them pay dearly if they violate the release conditions
If they behave badly while promising they 'll behave,thats all they deserve.
In your proposed scenario, I noticed you allowed for players to sit out and be in debt at the same time.
How would that work exactly?
How is someone that got his bounty paid able to get locked down again? This seems like overcomplicating something that only serves as a counter-measure to prevent people from not paying the bounty.
Remember that for opted out players, going to Court is only possible if they have insufficient gold to pay the bounty when getting killed.
I don't see this happening more than once in every player's game time, and it should not even have such a big impact when it happens accidentally.
Players are given many options, Bail Bondsman being only one of them. I don't see the "no crime until debt is paid" as a harsh penalty, since it would be that player's choice and is given additional options to pay out the debt.
This would of course, all have to be emphasized through the dialogue with the Judge before making the choice final.
Remember, I have tested the current Justice System thoroughly, and after a whole day of reckless thieving and murdering (and sometimes even deliberately getting caught) I haven't managed to rack up more than 25k bounty.
On the other hand, intentional abuse is prevented.
My real question is: is there an alternate, simple way of preventing people from intentionally avoiding to pay the bounty?
I would actually prefer if opted out players did not get transferred to Court at all.