Since there is an opt-out, I don't see what people would complain about.
There is no need for separate servers, if it can be played in two different ways at the same time.
Amen to that, and I think the list of choices above provides all the choice a player needs to keep playing the playstyle they want.
I guess letting another player pay the bounty on their behalf is also an option,suggested to disable trade between players becuase I thought it would be prone to abuse and encourage players to run around without gold since some rich sugardaddy would pay it for them.But now I see it would also limit the options for players wanting to help out other player so its a no go.
About the solitary cell choice (solo instance for opted out criminals),will players be able to escape with difficult puzzle solving or something?
I think there should alway be something to do,so which actions would the prisoner be able to take?
And suppose we'd have many puzzles in place that a player needs to solve in order to escape the prison.
What if the prisoner had such a high bounty (like 25k) that the time to escape took shorter than it would have took for the amount of bounty to decay?
Or would the bounty remain while in prison?but just decay faster for each puzzle solved successfully?
Or would the difficulty of the puzzles then depend on the amount of bounty the prisoner entered with?
I haven't thought about the escape possibility for PvE Solitary yet.
I'll have to put some thought into it.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »From what I gathered, those people were grinding champion points by killing "innocent" NPCs over and over again for hours. In areas where there's a ton of killable NPCs in a small area, it apparently makes for great exp, but you are witnessed every time you attack and kill one, so your bounty goes up super fast.I'm actually glad you brought this up. While I didn't and won't explain HOW those people got such large bounties, did you stop for a second and think how long would it take for you to rack up such a massive bounty?
I did a test a few days back, I played the Justice System content as recklessly as I could, and I only managed to rack up 25k bounty after hours of reckless criminal activities.
It would take a full month of playing ONLY Justice, and in a very reckless way for me to rack up a 1 million bounty, and it would take me almost 3 years to rack up 33 million bounty.
Yet some players had this kind of massive bounties long before Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood were even announced.
Remember that guy that came to the forums demanding that ZOS makes Orsinium quest NPCs interactable to Fugitives? He had a 33kk bounty (IIRC), and that was just the second DLC release since the Justice System.I 100% agree with it being an abuse, which is why I never felt pity for people that did this. And also why I would have no problem with a PvE system that would make bounties of that nature virtually impossible to play with. If you have a bounty of over 100k, you are obviously doing it intentionally. So, for players with bounties like that, if the game were to spawn 50 unkillable guards every 30 seconds directly on your face, I'm totally ok with that. As long as they are PvE guards.These kind of bounties cannot be obtained by intended meas of participation in the Justice System. It is abusal.
the bold was precisely what i had in mind for the justification for my PVP component recommendations.
apply the bold scenario to my suggestion to my recommendations here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3209374/#Comment_3209374
since im taking the time to reply, @Dubhliam tabards are not JUST to activate PVP, but to also provide a means for criminals to quickly and readily identify player guards, to aid in protecting them from ganking and just masses of player guards attacking at once. perhaps cooldowns should be applied, but the foundation of the system needs to be laid before those ideas are explored. with how pvp mechanics work, it actually increases the chance of a guard being ganked, than a criminal-pvper, as well as it should be. the guard-pvper already has a strategic advantage.
As I stated before, I am not fond of the tabard idea, since it opens up for possibilities for players that want to grief. In my opinion, there should be clear restrictions for Enforcers, and the choice to enlist would have to be a long - term one.
The opt-out/in on the other hand can be switched once per day, but nevertheless, the criminal career is a long term choice.
As for Outlaws ganking Enforcers, that possibility is disabled with this restriction:This concept, while embracing and promoting player versus player interaction should not be viewed as a way for people to duel. The Arena is in the works, we all know it is coming sooner or later.
- Guards and Enforcers cannot be attacked unless getting attacked by them.
I do like your idea about giving the Criminals a way to identify Enforcer more easily.
I will be adding this line into the concept:
- Enforcers have an icon above their heads that Outlaws can easily identify them by.
I guess we have enforcer campers near every outlaw refuge entry out there with these suggestions. At least that is the place where I would farm outlaws if needed for a skill line or anything like it. So opt-in will work only so far, people will stop doing it. This is my guess why ZoS dropped the idea.
I guess we have enforcer campers near every outlaw refuge entry out there with these suggestions. At least that is the place where I would farm outlaws if needed for a skill line or anything like it. So opt-in will work only so far, people will stop doing it. This is my guess why ZoS dropped the idea.
I guess we have enforcer campers near every outlaw refuge entry out there with these suggestions. At least that is the place where I would farm outlaws if needed for a skill line or anything like it. So opt-in will work only so far, people will stop doing it. This is my guess why ZoS dropped the idea.
i dont disagree on the net impact but i think at least one suggestion maybe not accepted so far was to have AI "bouncers" patrolling around the outlaw refuges to discourage PVP stake-outs. I imagine since they feel the usual AI guards are so effective at deterring crime, they also expect these AI "bouncers" to be equaLLY AS EFFECTIVE AT DISCOURAGING the stake-outs.
Not sure tho. (about what they think.)
Just wish every discussion of expanding justice content wasnt always forced to be married to "and we add pvp too."
There;s a world of new content and possibilities but it wont ever get anywhere as long as every time it comes up PVP gets tossed in as a companion or the very core of the system.
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »I guess we have enforcer campers near every outlaw refuge entry out there with these suggestions. At least that is the place where I would farm outlaws if needed for a skill line or anything like it. So opt-in will work only so far, people will stop doing it. This is my guess why ZoS dropped the idea.
i dont disagree on the net impact but i think at least one suggestion maybe not accepted so far was to have AI "bouncers" patrolling around the outlaw refuges to discourage PVP stake-outs. I imagine since they feel the usual AI guards are so effective at deterring crime, they also expect these AI "bouncers" to be equaLLY AS EFFECTIVE AT DISCOURAGING the stake-outs.
Not sure tho. (about what they think.)
Just wish every discussion of expanding justice content wasnt always forced to be married to "and we add pvp too."
There;s a world of new content and possibilities but it wont ever get anywhere as long as every time it comes up PVP gets tossed in as a companion or the very core of the system.
again... because PVP was the "core of the system"... that doesn't change because you don't like it; them pulling it, i don't have to like either. having immortal guards (a stupid idea from the start) was never the intended end result of the justice system, and was intended (foolishly) to prepare players for when the PVP portion was released. if you can't beat the AI.... well there really isn't a whole lot to work with there...
since the system was based around the notion of PVP, and they pulled away from it, they need to rebuild the system so it reflects that it is ONLY for PVE. better yet they can follow their word and go with implementing PVP... which they won't... and they lose credibility. one way or another, they system needs changes...
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »I guess we have enforcer campers near every outlaw refuge entry out there with these suggestions. At least that is the place where I would farm outlaws if needed for a skill line or anything like it. So opt-in will work only so far, people will stop doing it. This is my guess why ZoS dropped the idea.
i dont disagree on the net impact but i think at least one suggestion maybe not accepted so far was to have AI "bouncers" patrolling around the outlaw refuges to discourage PVP stake-outs. I imagine since they feel the usual AI guards are so effective at deterring crime, they also expect these AI "bouncers" to be equaLLY AS EFFECTIVE AT DISCOURAGING the stake-outs.
Not sure tho. (about what they think.)
Just wish every discussion of expanding justice content wasnt always forced to be married to "and we add pvp too."
There;s a world of new content and possibilities but it wont ever get anywhere as long as every time it comes up PVP gets tossed in as a companion or the very core of the system.
again... because PVP was the "core of the system"... that doesn't change because you don't like it; them pulling it, i don't have to like either. having immortal guards (a stupid idea from the start) was never the intended end result of the justice system, and was intended (foolishly) to prepare players for when the PVP portion was released. if you can't beat the AI.... well there really isn't a whole lot to work with there...
since the system was based around the notion of PVP, and they pulled away from it, they need to rebuild the system so it reflects that it is ONLY for PVE. better yet they can follow their word and go with implementing PVP... which they won't... and they lose credibility. one way or another, they system needs changes...
Ok so as far as i can tell, in spite of the tone of your post, we agree?
i mean, we differ on whether we think the PVP side was a "possibility they considered and rejected, issuing lots of caveats along the way" versus "core of the system" stuff... but you seem to be agreeing that moving forward with it as solely PVE is what they need to do UNLESS they decide to reverse their game-wide policy of not mixing pve and pvp outside of pvp zones (which they have clearly said they wont do.)
I just wish more people unhappy with the loss of the pvp component could let it go like you.
But i remain hopeful to try and get a BD/TG or bigger "law and order" dlc added... maybe in 2017 but it depends on what all they have in the pipeline. Wouldn't be before one tamriel of course. (For my vison, one tamriel would be necessary and would benefit from it.)
thanks for the kind words.
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »I guess we have enforcer campers near every outlaw refuge entry out there with these suggestions. At least that is the place where I would farm outlaws if needed for a skill line or anything like it. So opt-in will work only so far, people will stop doing it. This is my guess why ZoS dropped the idea.
i dont disagree on the net impact but i think at least one suggestion maybe not accepted so far was to have AI "bouncers" patrolling around the outlaw refuges to discourage PVP stake-outs. I imagine since they feel the usual AI guards are so effective at deterring crime, they also expect these AI "bouncers" to be equaLLY AS EFFECTIVE AT DISCOURAGING the stake-outs.
Not sure tho. (about what they think.)
Just wish every discussion of expanding justice content wasnt always forced to be married to "and we add pvp too."
There;s a world of new content and possibilities but it wont ever get anywhere as long as every time it comes up PVP gets tossed in as a companion or the very core of the system.
again... because PVP was the "core of the system"... that doesn't change because you don't like it; them pulling it, i don't have to like either. having immortal guards (a stupid idea from the start) was never the intended end result of the justice system, and was intended (foolishly) to prepare players for when the PVP portion was released. if you can't beat the AI.... well there really isn't a whole lot to work with there...
since the system was based around the notion of PVP, and they pulled away from it, they need to rebuild the system so it reflects that it is ONLY for PVE. better yet they can follow their word and go with implementing PVP... which they won't... and they lose credibility. one way or another, they system needs changes...
Ok so as far as i can tell, in spite of the tone of your post, we agree?
i mean, we differ on whether we think the PVP side was a "possibility they considered and rejected, issuing lots of caveats along the way" versus "core of the system" stuff... but you seem to be agreeing that moving forward with it as solely PVE is what they need to do UNLESS they decide to reverse their game-wide policy of not mixing pve and pvp outside of pvp zones (which they have clearly said they wont do.)
I just wish more people unhappy with the loss of the pvp component could let it go like you.
But i remain hopeful to try and get a BD/TG or bigger "law and order" dlc added... maybe in 2017 but it depends on what all they have in the pipeline. Wouldn't be before one tamriel of course. (For my vison, one tamriel would be necessary and would benefit from it.)
thanks for the kind words.
no you simply didn't listen when told it was a core part of the system, and dumped (likely for a cash grab DLC), and didn't research it at all...
your reading material:
http://elderscrollsonline.info/justice-system
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »I guess we have enforcer campers near every outlaw refuge entry out there with these suggestions. At least that is the place where I would farm outlaws if needed for a skill line or anything like it. So opt-in will work only so far, people will stop doing it. This is my guess why ZoS dropped the idea.
i dont disagree on the net impact but i think at least one suggestion maybe not accepted so far was to have AI "bouncers" patrolling around the outlaw refuges to discourage PVP stake-outs. I imagine since they feel the usual AI guards are so effective at deterring crime, they also expect these AI "bouncers" to be equaLLY AS EFFECTIVE AT DISCOURAGING the stake-outs.
Not sure tho. (about what they think.)
Just wish every discussion of expanding justice content wasnt always forced to be married to "and we add pvp too."
There;s a world of new content and possibilities but it wont ever get anywhere as long as every time it comes up PVP gets tossed in as a companion or the very core of the system.
again... because PVP was the "core of the system"... that doesn't change because you don't like it; them pulling it, i don't have to like either. having immortal guards (a stupid idea from the start) was never the intended end result of the justice system, and was intended (foolishly) to prepare players for when the PVP portion was released. if you can't beat the AI.... well there really isn't a whole lot to work with there...
since the system was based around the notion of PVP, and they pulled away from it, they need to rebuild the system so it reflects that it is ONLY for PVE. better yet they can follow their word and go with implementing PVP... which they won't... and they lose credibility. one way or another, they system needs changes...
Ok so as far as i can tell, in spite of the tone of your post, we agree?
i mean, we differ on whether we think the PVP side was a "possibility they considered and rejected, issuing lots of caveats along the way" versus "core of the system" stuff... but you seem to be agreeing that moving forward with it as solely PVE is what they need to do UNLESS they decide to reverse their game-wide policy of not mixing pve and pvp outside of pvp zones (which they have clearly said they wont do.)
I just wish more people unhappy with the loss of the pvp component could let it go like you.
But i remain hopeful to try and get a BD/TG or bigger "law and order" dlc added... maybe in 2017 but it depends on what all they have in the pipeline. Wouldn't be before one tamriel of course. (For my vison, one tamriel would be necessary and would benefit from it.)
thanks for the kind words.
no you simply didn't listen when told it was a core part of the system, and dumped (likely for a cash grab DLC), and didn't research it at all...
your reading material:
http://elderscrollsonline.info/justice-system
http://tamrieljournal.com/first-look-justice-system-eso/
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/12/04/the-road-ahead---december-4
"We want to give everyone a heads up that we’ll be introducing the Justice System using a phased approach, much like what we’ve been doing with the Champion System. So, the first iteration of the Justice System will include Skyrim-style PvE elements—you’ll be able to steal from vendors, pickpocket NPCs, kill NPCs, have justice meted out to you by guards—but not with the PvP Enforcer part of the system."
NOTE: the champion system, being an incomplete implementation as well @STEVIL
@Edgemoor layering, while a good idea, would spread the community out too much and require increasing sever loads. not including coldharbour and cadwell's there is already 5 zones (6 if you count the starters) off the top of my head, for the potential system as is. it would spread the load just right. with one tamriel that will expand that much more, further expanding the community, which i lean towards it being in the "right" direction, as then groups/raids could then also be something to consider, and includes the RP community. do two layers with one tamriel, and the monetary costs just arent going to be covered for the server load.
A quick suggestion for the problem grom mentioned where enforcer camp near every outlaw refugee; mobile "merchant" cart the criminal/outlaws can find to instantly access the outlaw refugee
There would be a daily oulaw/Criminal sign for npcs to understand,but first you need to gather the clues and find out the sign of the day as a criminal/outlaw
@STEVIL , the forum code is so poorly written that even though I can't see your posts, I can see when someone quotes them.
After 2 threads and 17 pages, you still obviously haven't read the concept.
It was MY idea to make NPC Outlaws guard the Refuge entrances, and YES, that idea made it into the concept. They don't have to have über AI, they just need to have Clairvoyance and a fairly short respawn time to help prevent Refuge camping.
There are 20 PvE maps, usually with 2 Outlaw refuge entrances. Apart from that, players can enter a Refuge via the Footpads, or use Pirharri the Smuggler to fence their good from any place.
If you also add the fact that Enforcers would have to go to the Headquarters after every kill to hand in the quest, I'd say camping is highly unlikely.
But why do you care, anyway? You got your opt-out.
@Edgemoor , I don't consider myself a PvP player, nor would I say I am a purely PvE player.
I don't like the idea of instancing zones into PvE and PvP, in fact I detest such marginalization of players.
I enjoy both aspects of the game, and I consider the vast majority of players play both PvE and PvP. My concept is trying to mingle players together, not separate them further.
As for the PvP flagging:So there is an opt-out for both, just not on separate servers(sorry, instances).
- Criminals have an option to flag themselves as Outlaws(opted in for PvP) once per day by interacting with a fence.
- Enforcers cannot be forced into PvP (because they cannot be attacked first), therefore they can choose to play only the PvE repeatable quests, if they don't wish to participate in PvP.
@STEVIL , the forum code is so poorly written that even though I can't see your posts, I can see when someone quotes them.
After 2 threads and 17 pages, you still obviously haven't read the concept.
It was MY idea to make NPC Outlaws guard the Refuge entrances, and YES, that idea made it into the concept. They don't have to have über AI, they just need to have Clairvoyance and a fairly short respawn time to help prevent Refuge camping.
There are 20 PvE maps, usually with 2 Outlaw refuge entrances. Apart from that, players can enter a Refuge via the Footpads, or use Pirharri the Smuggler to fence their good from any place.
If you also add the fact that Enforcers would have to go to the Headquarters after every kill to hand in the quest, I'd say camping is highly unlikely.
But why do you care, anyway? You got your opt-out.
A quick suggestion for the problem grom mentioned where enforcer camp near every outlaw refugee; mobile "merchant" cart the criminal/outlaws can find to instantly access the outlaw refugee
There would be a daily oulaw/Criminal sign for npcs to understand,but first you need to gather the clues and find out the sign of the day as a criminal/outlaw
It depends on amount of such carts. Too few (for example, single one), they will be camped as well, possibly with help of "outlaw informers" that will have a free pass through enforcers's camps. Too many would be other problem, as it would disbalance risks and rewards in TG (and possibly DB, I have not played DLC yet) daily quests. I would not like quest rewards to be nerfed as result.@STEVIL , the forum code is so poorly written that even though I can't see your posts, I can see when someone quotes them.
After 2 threads and 17 pages, you still obviously haven't read the concept.
It was MY idea to make NPC Outlaws guard the Refuge entrances, and YES, that idea made it into the concept. They don't have to have über AI, they just need to have Clairvoyance and a fairly short respawn time to help prevent Refuge camping.
There are 20 PvE maps, usually with 2 Outlaw refuge entrances. Apart from that, players can enter a Refuge via the Footpads, or use Pirharri the Smuggler to fence their good from any place.
If you also add the fact that Enforcers would have to go to the Headquarters after every kill to hand in the quest, I'd say camping is highly unlikely.
But why do you care, anyway? You got your opt-out.
Pirharri - is too greedy kitty, even by her race standards, and she does not clears bounty.
Note, one does not have to camp entrance, it is enough to camp approaches to entrance. For Auridon, there are two points that needs to be controlled inside city, and three-four outside. Enforcer camps do not have to 100% effective for farming. 80% efficiency is enough to spoil the game for outlaws. I have not played PvP in this game yet, but from forum discussions, this is a popular tactics in Cyrodil as well to camp shards and other interesting places.
When you are actually a criminal with an inventory full of stolen goodies and you accidentally pick up an owned apple near a guard rather than speaking with an npc, that’s when you get slammed and your goodies get taken by the guard, and you get hit with a massive bounty. This is a consequence of the system, though – it is a system of high risk and high rewards. Reducing the aspect of risk during the peak moments prior to reward would invalidate much of the current system. The system is part of the world and not just when it’s convenient – that’s how it is in the Elder Scrolls series.
A quick suggestion for the problem grom mentioned where enforcer camp near every outlaw refugee; mobile "merchant" cart the criminal/outlaws can find to instantly access the outlaw refugee
There would be a daily oulaw/Criminal sign for npcs to understand,but first you need to gather the clues and find out the sign of the day as a criminal/outlaw
It depends on amount of such carts. Too few (for example, single one), they will be camped as well, possibly with help of "outlaw informers" that will have a free pass through enforcers's camps. Too many would be other problem, as it would disbalance risks and rewards in TG (and possibly DB, I have not played DLC yet) daily quests. I would not like quest rewards to be nerfed as result.@STEVIL , the forum code is so poorly written that even though I can't see your posts, I can see when someone quotes them.
After 2 threads and 17 pages, you still obviously haven't read the concept.
It was MY idea to make NPC Outlaws guard the Refuge entrances, and YES, that idea made it into the concept. They don't have to have über AI, they just need to have Clairvoyance and a fairly short respawn time to help prevent Refuge camping.
There are 20 PvE maps, usually with 2 Outlaw refuge entrances. Apart from that, players can enter a Refuge via the Footpads, or use Pirharri the Smuggler to fence their good from any place.
If you also add the fact that Enforcers would have to go to the Headquarters after every kill to hand in the quest, I'd say camping is highly unlikely.
But why do you care, anyway? You got your opt-out.
Pirharri - is too greedy kitty, even by her race standards, and she does not clears bounty.
Note, one does not have to camp entrance, it is enough to camp approaches to entrance. For Auridon, there are two points that needs to be controlled inside city, and three-four outside. Enforcer camps do not have to 100% effective for farming. 80% efficiency is enough to spoil the game for outlaws. I have not played PvP in this game yet, but from forum discussions, this is a popular tactics in Cyrodil as well to camp shards and other interesting places.
Yes, when people get camped in Cyrodiil, they come to the forums to complain. Does that mean that they were grieved and it should be changed? No.
They opted in for PvP and anything that includes the moment they set foot in Cyrodiil.
That being said, those places are not camped 24/7, in fact, I'd say hotspots are camped less than 1% of the time. Simply because camping is not a fun activity.
People have the option to sell via a personal fence, yet nobody uses her - this is a clear indication that the current system is not risky enough.
Yes, Pirharri takes a lot of provision. But the whole idea of the Justice System is based on the risk-reward ratio. Since there is absolutely no risk involved when interacting with Pirharri, the reward is also lower.
Also, people can't be ganked if they have no bounty, can they?
How many Pardon Editcs have you used during your activities in the current Justice System? Two? Five? And how many Edicts are just taking space in your inventory, never to be used?
The game offers so many options for players that legitimately want to participate in the Justice System, if those players refuse to utilize those options, that is their choice, and their risk.
The whole concept presented in this thread is revolving around making Justice more risky than it currently is (making certain abuses not viable along the way) while also rewarding players for the higher risk.
This risk factor is exactly what makes a good stealth game. And it is exactly what Justice in ESO needs, instead of the game holding player's hands along each step of the way.
If players don't have the patience to play stealthy, they can always opt-out, and they don't have to worry about ganks.
EDIT: Forgot to note: players cannot be attacked instantly. So "gankers" are actually discouraged from camping because not every gank will result in a PvP fight. Unless the Outlaw chooses to Flee instead of going to Court or paying the bounty.
Here is a part of a long post by the devs when the Justice System got implemented: (thanks again, @starkerealm )When you are actually a criminal with an inventory full of stolen goodies and you accidentally pick up an owned apple near a guard rather than speaking with an npc, that’s when you get slammed and your goodies get taken by the guard, and you get hit with a massive bounty. This is a consequence of the system, though – it is a system of high risk and high rewards. Reducing the aspect of risk during the peak moments prior to reward would invalidate much of the current system. The system is part of the world and not just when it’s convenient – that’s how it is in the Elder Scrolls series.
Risk and reward is also something that needs to be discussed I think.
Someone mentioned earlier that no one would pick the opt -in choice if there was opt-out.
I believe if players pick the opt-in they deserve higher reward as they take more risk.
While it also gives a reason for players to take the opt-in because their is higher or different reward like tel var stone.
Or perhaps opt-in and opt-out just get different types of reward that appeal to the type of player.
So the opt-in choice becomes appealing to players who want a pvp set or something(or a special enforcer uniform)
while the opt-out becomes appealing to players who prefer pve(unlocking a rogue companion or pet or something)
Risk and reward is also something that needs to be discussed I think.
Someone mentioned earlier that no one would pick the opt -in choice if there was opt-out.
I believe if players pick the opt-in they deserve higher reward as they take more risk.
While it also gives a reason for players to take the opt-in because their is higher or different reward like tel var stone.
Or perhaps opt-in and opt-out just get different types of reward that appeal to the type of player.
So the opt-in choice becomes appealing to players who want a pvp set or something(or a special enforcer uniform)
while the opt-out becomes appealing to players who prefer pve(unlocking a rogue companion or pet or something)
Risk and reward is also something that needs to be discussed I think.
Someone mentioned earlier that no one would pick the opt -in choice if there was opt-out.
I believe if players pick the opt-in they deserve higher reward as they take more risk.
While it also gives a reason for players to take the opt-in because their is higher or different reward like tel var stone.
Or perhaps opt-in and opt-out just get different types of reward that appeal to the type of player.
So the opt-in choice becomes appealing to players who want a pvp set or something(or a special enforcer uniform)
while the opt-out becomes appealing to players who prefer pve(unlocking a rogue companion or pet or something)
There is a whole section in the concept named "PvP Justice rewards:Outlaw rewardsNote that even though the section is called PvP rewards, the Haggling passive change is general, and affects both opted in and opted out players.
- The Haggling passive from TG skill line now grants 10/20/30/40% bonus (from 2/4/6/8%).
- Veteran Sacraments and Heists rewards often contain Epic, and rarely contain Legendary quality set pieces, including jewelry. Completing the "Prison Break" quest also rewards such set pieces. Sets that are included in the rewards are:
Bahraha's Curse Syvarra's Scales Shadow Dancer Darkstride Night Mother Sithis' Touch
Enforcer rewards
- Enforcers don't gain gold from accosting or killing Outlaws. The amount of the bounty does count towards certain achievements though.
- Joining the Iron Wheel guild, Enforcers get access to dailies and repeatable quests that reward participation in Justice System activities. The first completed On-duty activity often rewards Epic, and seldom rewards Legendary quality set pieces, including jewelry. Subsequent completions only reward experience in decreased amounts. Sets that are included in the rewards are:
Bahraha's Curse Syvarra's Scales Magicka Furnace Fiord's Legacy Akatosh's Blessed Armor Jyggalag's Order (new*)
Jyggalag's Order
This set comes in any weight.
2 piece bonus: adds Magicka regeneration
3 piece bonus: adds 4% healing taken
4 piece bonus: adds maximum Health
5 piece bonus: Jyggalag's Blessing
Immunity duration after using Break Free increased by 3 seconds.
When breaking free from a Fugitive effect, gain Major Expedition and Major Berserk for 4 seconds.
Other rewards are obtainable through participation in PvP instances. Those rewards are not exclusive only to opted in players, since Justice System sets have always been (and should continue to be) BoE sets. Meaning anyone could buy those sets from players that obtain them.
I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Just a couple of points....
1. Justice PvP has to be opt-in. You then decide if you want to be a criminal or an enforcer.
I disagree. The Justice System is currently broken, abusable and does not provide long term content that can be enjoyed by all players. "Immersion" can go both ways, and some people don't want to see other people slaughtering whole towns. Also:2. If you don't decide to opt-in then any PvP mechanic must be invisible to you. The game is exactly the same as it is now. People who want Justice PvP are being selfish - for their enjoyment. Fair enough, I'll be selfish too, for my enjoyment. You can have what you want as long as it doesn't affect me. A consequence of this is that guards will remain immortal - they are currently there to moderate my behaviour, they need to stay that way.
Which proposals do you speak of? So far, I have done my best to include many restrictions that will prevent grieving, and so did other people.3. Given some of the interesting proposals presented here it is no wonder that ZoS decided that the whole thing was too much of a bother, and far too open to griefing. It's obvious why it will never happen, just look at this thread!
This is not a valid argument against implementing the PvP part of the Justice System. "Unsuspecting questers" are in Cyrodiil, what did they expect? Justice should be left out of PvP areas, just as it is currently on live servers.And...
4. If there are so many players who want to be PvP Enforcers then how come they aren't rooting out the gankers who wait for unsuspecting questers handing in completed quests? How come they aren't already in IC trashing the gankers who hide round corners waiting to kill you and rob you? Why aren't they putting PvP justice into effect in the PvP areas?
Where are all these people with such a strong sense of social justice?
While I'm at it...
5. To the person who gets so upset when he sees an alliance NPC murdered... it was a contract.
I_killed_Vivec wrote: »People who want Justice PvP are being selfish - for their enjoyment.
I_killed_Vivec wrote: »"you can have what you want as long as it doesn't affect me"
I_killed_Vivec wrote: »To the person who gets so upset when he sees an alliance NPC murdered... it was a contract.
To the person who gets so upset when he sees an alliance NPC murdered...
I disapprove of the darkbrotherhood ways ,and alliance NPCs getting murdered is not something I like to see during my game experience,and I could complain like you complain about the thought of seeing pvp player even with opt-out
But since they have induced this passive conflict and turned off hostility for the sake of pure pve there isn't much to do about the awkward situation with dark brotherhood, now is there?
So if i'd follow the logic of "you can have what you want as long as it doesn't affect me", I'd inquire them to phase dark brotherhood out for me if I can't destroy or attack them,or no dark brotherhood anymore...
But there might be better solutions ,who knows.
Still I quote this to show the selfish nature of this line of thought
And the open game world where players play together is of nobody.(i see that now)
...
hingarthuub17_ESO wrote: »This pointless, useless thread just needs to die already.To the person who gets so upset when he sees an alliance NPC murdered...
Um...here's a news flash: these NPCs aren't real. It's not reality, it's just a game, and these things are nothing more than pixels. And if this still isn't enough, those of who you get upset at the senseless killing of these NPCs can take solace (lol) in the fact that they'll just come back again after a few minutes.
@Edgemoor , I don't consider myself a PvP player, nor would I say I am a purely PvE player.
I don't like the idea of instancing zones into PvE and PvP, in fact I detest such marginalization of players.
I enjoy both aspects of the game, and I consider the vast majority of players play both PvE and PvP. My concept is trying to mingle players together, not separate them further.
As for the PvP flagging:So there is an opt-out for both, just not on separate servers(sorry, instances).
- Criminals have an option to flag themselves as Outlaws(opted in for PvP) once per day by interacting with a fence.
- Enforcers cannot be forced into PvP (because they cannot be attacked first), therefore they can choose to play only the PvE repeatable quests, if they don't wish to participate in PvP.
.
Actually, there is a global effect active for everyone that enters Cyrodiil or Imperial City, called Battle Spirit:What the proposal lacks the most at the moment in my opinion is the criminal/outlaw version of your
"Iron wheel skill line" for enforcers.
+
"
UNYIELDING GUARD
Reduces damage taken from Wanted players by 10/20/30/40%.
RIGHTEOUS BLOWS
Attacking a Wanted reduces their healing received by 10/20/30/40% for 15 seconds.
"
Aren't these 2 iron wheel skills a little overpowered? like 4/8/12% would be good enough?
It has to stay exciting for both outlaws and enforcers.So the powers of the outlaws/criminals and the enforcers would need to be balanced.
This is to provide a risk factor in the Prison."Getting seen by a Guard or Enforcer while inside the Prison automatically locks your cell door permanently."
And then what are the options for the outlaw/criminal?There should always be an action a player can take?
"Higher bounties help Enforcers to locate Outlaws more easily"
like for each 10000 bounty,the oulaw gets 1 minute penalty when revealed on the map?
So the reveal lasts 1 minute longer each 10000 bounty points ,and the outlaw has a harder time to go undercover & has to use more manoeuvre points to make up for the penalty.