wake up and welcome to modern mmos friend!!! more players more money for the company !!! easier spoon fed content means more money for the company.. game already failed at release with the quick exit of subcription base and now pushing alot of content behind a pay wall... cant see them making huge money when there taking sooo long to fix the crazy amount of bugs that riddle all platforms!! other mmos still have subs and have the same if not more paying subs and regular updates patches putting more content in!!( for free ) because they cater to the masses!!Scottk I thought you said you were done posting in here.
I have an account on XB1 as well and yes the lack of text chat is a pain. Due to the severe chat limitations, prices are all over the place. Potent Nirncrux is 35k at a vendor in Rawlkha and then its 8k in eldenroot. People unsure of prices are taking guesses and putting stuff up for sale based on a price they feel is right. Thats how it should be, it opens the door for bargains.
Whereas an auction house you see this:
16,000, 15999, 15998, 15997, 15996 because the instant gratification kids that populate MMOs today just want a quick sale.
One of the reasons I came to ESO is because it was different from the other 20ish mmo titles ive played in the past. I loved EQ, channel selling, no AH...you had to work.
I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.
how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?
Averya_Teira wrote: »ScottK1994 wrote: »Above are some people with hundreds of thousands of gold and are worried that they'll seem less rich in a working system.
People say this a lot and it's nonsense. I'm in a good trade guild with a prime spot and I don't see any collusion or exploiting the system, just weekly raffles and such like any other guild.
What supporters of the global auction house overlook is that people like me will game the holy hell out of a global store front. I've done it in other MMOs and I'd do it here as well. I wouldn't need a guild or raffles or any of that nonsense, just me and a couple hours hacking some LUA and boom, your markets belong to me. The current system makes such market domination infeasible for the solo individual and difficult for large guilds. A global auction house would make it trivial for everyone.
Your cure is worse than the disease.
Wouldn't that get you a ban though ? Well, with ZOS, a 3 day suspension I guess....
You could fully automate the process and yes, that would be a TOS violation... but it's not necessary to do so. I was thinking of a modified Master Merchant addon to scan the AH and an extension to AwesomeGuildStore that would automatically surface the best deals. I'd keep a laptop running ESO around and every half hour or so run a scan of the AH, buy up any good deals and immediately realist them for higher prices.
And it would not just be me, hundreds of people would do this. Many of them wouldn't just play the buy-low-sell-high game either, they would actively seek to control entire chunks of the market. And as long as people were not automating the process there would not be a single suspension or ban.
If there is account-wide limit 100 buy and sell deals per day, or 50 deals per day accumulated for 12 days max like enlightenment now, then your script will stop to work and load up servers with queries. And you assume that API would allow you doing it. It is not necessary so. Requiring human confirmation for sale or buy fill force you to sit near notebook, or violate ToS with perma-ban possibility by using third party program to skip this step. For each too-smart-for-own-good, there is possible improvement in the code that would make it worthless. Normal users will not notice such restrictions, only market players. They will have to play smart to squeeze any speculation income in such situation and focus on high-level goods.
ScottK1994 wrote: »Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character
u can, and even play your build.
Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that
ScottK1994 wrote: »Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character
u can, and even play your build.
Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that
I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.
ScottK1994 wrote: »Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character
u can, and even play your build.
Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that
I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.
Conquistador wrote: »I have grown tired of spending all day to find something. I just do without now. It's exhausting and stupid to have to zone everywhere to find an item.
exeeter702 wrote: »Interesting..... have none of you ever stopped to think for a second that the reason they opted for this system over an auction house is due to server limitations?
I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.
ScottK1994 wrote: »Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character
u can, and even play your build.
Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that
I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.
A well constructed AH only serves to create an equitable well-functioning system were all players have a common place to buy and sell their wares. The people that are vehemently opposed are the people that are deeply invested in their guild trader and monopolize.
wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »ScottK1994 wrote: »Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character
u can, and even play your build.
Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that
I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.
I too have mastered all 6 crafting on my 1 main toon, have plenty of skill points, (at 320+ SP atm), and about to get another next time I go PvP. Yes, it is completely possible to max all crafting on 1 toon...:)
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.
how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?
I was talking to people. And even in this thread almost every casual that comes there says that he or she wants AH. And there are much more casuals than hardcore traders. For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required. This is bad user experience, not speaking of the fact that choice offered by guild is too poor because of limited marked size. Only hardcore traders said that they like the guild trade system so far. They still could have their own guild trade playground if they want.
But you could try running a poll like:
- I want trade system to stay the way it is.
- I want Auction House added to the system with appropriate anti-botting measures with saving guild traders.
- I want Auction House with appropriate anti-botting measures to replace the current guild traders.
I would choose a second option.
missjackieb14_ESO wrote: »I personally find it annoying to have to go to a million and one guild traders just to find some crafting mats. After the millionth trader and not finding the stuff I need, a central AH would be easier and less time wasting. Do you know how much time is wasted just by going to so many traders, just to find out that there's nothing you need on there?
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.
how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?
I was talking to people. And even in this thread almost every casual that comes there says that he or she wants AH. And there are much more casuals than hardcore traders. For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required. This is bad user experience, not speaking of the fact that choice offered by guild is too poor because of limited marked size. Only hardcore traders said that they like the guild trade system so far. They still could have their own guild trade playground if they want.
But you could try running a poll like:
- I want trade system to stay the way it is.
- I want Auction House added to the system with appropriate anti-botting measures with saving guild traders.
- I want Auction House with appropriate anti-botting measures to replace the current guild traders.
I would choose a second option.
it takes some effort to find what you need so everything must change?
perhaps you should also be requesting that every toon created be cp510 with all skill lines maxed and a choice of full sets of end game gear? after all it does take some effort to get those things too.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
The issue with this thread is those support AH seem to ignore all the comments around people asking what it is they are spending these hours trawling for. These 'constant daily trawls' getting in the way of their game play.
I really don't get it. I trawl for sure, for rare set pieces or things im feeling lazy to farm and love a deal. But if you are using traders to buy all your day to day stuff then you are just darn laz and creating yourself a headache that you think AH is needed to fix
Do the crafts, takes no time to level if you focus, craft all your daily stuff in bulk then all you need traders for is rare stuff. Which is no effort
Reads to me like the instant gratification squad are too lazy to craft, want to buy it all, aren't event happy with that and want to buy it all now, easily and for one price. Man. Just play the game!!!!!
lordrichter wrote: »
This subject has come up before. There are a number of arguments not well represented in the current thread. Mind you, not all of these I necessarily agree with...
1. Overhead delivering the list of items for sale to you would introduce latency in the item list. (network load)
2. Server complexity dealing with contention on a wider scale (server load)
3. ZOS could not program a UI for guild traders, why would anyone thing they would make a usable UI for an auction house?
4. ZOS creates 2 bugs for every fix, not even counting new bugs for every feature. It could be years before an auction house actually worked. Exploits, item loss, and gold loss would be a certainty.
lordrichter wrote: »6. Guild Traders are a gold sink so an auction house would require a large "house cut" to compensate
7. Auction houses encourage and support gold sellers more than the guild system does
8. Cut-throat pricing is more frequent, so there would be more "one copper undercutting"
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).
Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.
how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?
I was talking to people. And even in this thread almost every casual that comes there says that he or she wants AH. And there are much more casuals than hardcore traders. For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required. This is bad user experience, not speaking of the fact that choice offered by guild is too poor because of limited marked size. Only hardcore traders said that they like the guild trade system so far. They still could have their own guild trade playground if they want.
But you could try running a poll like:
- I want trade system to stay the way it is.
- I want Auction House added to the system with appropriate anti-botting measures with saving guild traders.
- I want Auction House with appropriate anti-botting measures to replace the current guild traders.
I would choose a second option.
it takes some effort to find what you need so everything must change?
perhaps you should also be requesting that every toon created be cp510 with all skill lines maxed and a choice of full sets of end game gear? after all it does take some effort to get those things too.
The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons. But there is just a lot of time to spend on walking between stores and working with stores, some of it even non-touching keyboard as addons downloads content of the store. So it is just useless timewaster rather rather interesting challenge for me. Some play meta-game around guild stores maximizing gold, good luck to you, you will be able to play your games on AH too. But for purpose of moving goods from seller to buyer the current system is horrible. It is only good for intermediates who concentrate on this aspect of the game by exploiting its defects. UX design team would have been fired for it IRL.
Beyond wasting time, the system has additional defect, extremely the poor diversity of items in stores. Because market sizes are very small, only limited set of items sell. And not because there are no potential buyers, but because it does not worth buyers to browse items in stores. It does not makes sense to search 2 hours for specific level crafted or chest set item in stores when it would expire in 3 hours. Crafters could not sell their goods (except for high-level alchemy and enchantments), and even low level characters have to invest precious skill points into crafting. This disconnect between buyer and seller is horrible.
Averya_Teira wrote: »ScottK1994 wrote: »Above are some people with hundreds of thousands of gold and are worried that they'll seem less rich in a working system.
People say this a lot and it's nonsense. I'm in a good trade guild with a prime spot and I don't see any collusion or exploiting the system, just weekly raffles and such like any other guild.
What supporters of the global auction house overlook is that people like me will game the holy hell out of a global store front. I've done it in other MMOs and I'd do it here as well. I wouldn't need a guild or raffles or any of that nonsense, just me and a couple hours hacking some LUA and boom, your markets belong to me. The current system makes such market domination infeasible for the solo individual and difficult for large guilds. A global auction house would make it trivial for everyone.
Your cure is worse than the disease.
Wouldn't that get you a ban though ? Well, with ZOS, a 3 day suspension I guess....
You could fully automate the process and yes, that would be a TOS violation... but it's not necessary to do so. I was thinking of a modified Master Merchant addon to scan the AH and an extension to AwesomeGuildStore that would automatically surface the best deals. I'd keep a laptop running ESO around and every half hour or so run a scan of the AH, buy up any good deals and immediately realist them for higher prices.
And it would not just be me, hundreds of people would do this. Many of them wouldn't just play the buy-low-sell-high game either, they would actively seek to control entire chunks of the market. And as long as people were not automating the process there would not be a single suspension or ban.
If there is account-wide limit 100 buy and sell deals per day, or 50 deals per day accumulated for 12 days max like enlightenment now, then your script will stop to work and load up servers with queries. And you assume that API would allow you doing it. It is not necessary so. Requiring human confirmation for sale or buy fill force you to sit near notebook, or violate ToS with perma-ban possibility by using third party program to skip this step. For each too-smart-for-own-good, there is possible improvement in the code that would make it worthless. Normal users will not notice such restrictions, only market players. They will have to play smart to squeeze any speculation income in such situation and focus on high-level goods.
That is a stupid idea no MMO worth its name would go with. Controlling the market, playing the market is considered a valid play style in MMOs. Creating silly rules to limit players from playing would be same as saying 'Oh you can only kill up to 20 people in PvP per day'. It is stupid.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »you are contradicting yourself now......in the post i responded to you said "For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required" and then in your response to my post you say "The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons"
so which is it?
too much effort or too little effort?
it can't be both. (and if it takes too little effort what are you complaining about?)
also - the guild traders are sellers markets..... people offer what they want (and hope) to sell. that is not a fault of 'the system'. possibly a fault of your expectation though. that sellers market is self regulating - you offer something for sale and get a buyer, fine try it again. if you offer something for sale and it dosn't sell you withdraw it and try something else. it is a simple system requiring little external regulation and it prevents the abuses possible in a global ah.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »you are contradicting yourself now......in the post i responded to you said "For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required" and then in your response to my post you say "The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons"
so which is it?
too much effort or too little effort?
it can't be both. (and if it takes too little effort what are you complaining about?)
also - the guild traders are sellers markets..... people offer what they want (and hope) to sell. that is not a fault of 'the system'. possibly a fault of your expectation though. that sellers market is self regulating - you offer something for sale and get a buyer, fine try it again. if you offer something for sale and it dosn't sell you withdraw it and try something else. it is a simple system requiring little external regulation and it prevents the abuses possible in a global ah.
You see, there are two categories of efforts:
- Challenging and rewarding efforts is what we come here for.
- Too much trivial, boring, and unrewarding effort IRL is why we come to game. And I do not want to do that in the game.
I have posted a lot on it above: the smaller the market, the less possible diversity. This is just pure math, and there is little way around it. Any market self regulates to diversity optimal for it. For small markets the poor diversity is optimal. For larger markets, greater diversity is optimal. It is just like petrol station kiosks (poor diversity and only most common goods) and Wallmart (great diversity with a lot of niche goods). Greater amount of guilds does not solves problems, what matter is size of individual market. We have a lot of pertol station kiosk, but the diversity in them is still poor, they are almost carbon copy of each other despite of different owners. Guild stores are also almost carbon copy of each other if we take goods that sells in the system.