Auction House

snakester320

Makkir wrote: »

Scottk I thought you said you were done posting in here.

I have an account on XB1 as well and yes the lack of text chat is a pain. Due to the severe chat limitations, prices are all over the place. Potent Nirncrux is 35k at a vendor in Rawlkha and then its 8k in eldenroot. People unsure of prices are taking guesses and putting stuff up for sale based on a price they feel is right. Thats how it should be, it opens the door for bargains.

Whereas an auction house you see this:
16,000, 15999, 15998, 15997, 15996 because the instant gratification kids that populate MMOs today just want a quick sale.

One of the reasons I came to ESO is because it was different from the other 20ish mmo titles ive played in the past. I loved EQ, channel selling, no AH...you had to work.

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

wake up and welcome to modern mmos friend!!! more players more money for the company !!! easier spoon fed content means more money for the company.. game already failed at release with the quick exit of subcription base and now pushing alot of content behind a pay wall... cant see them making huge money when there taking sooo long to fix the crazy amount of bugs that riddle all platforms!! other mmos still have subs and have the same if not more paying subs and regular updates patches putting more content in!!( for free ) because they cater to the masses!!

grom1024

Makkir wrote: »

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.

jedtb16_ESO

grom1024 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.

how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?

missjackieb14_ESO

I personally find it annoying to have to go to a million and one guild traders just to find some crafting mats. After the millionth trader and not finding the stuff I need, a central AH would be easier and less time wasting. Do you know how much time is wasted just by going to so many traders, just to find out that there's nothing you need on there?

grom1024

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.

how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?

I was talking to people. And even in this thread almost every casual that comes there says that he or she wants AH. And there are much more casuals than hardcore traders. For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required. This is bad user experience, not speaking of the fact that choice offered by guild is too poor because of limited marked size. Only hardcore traders said that they like the guild trade system so far. They still could have their own guild trade playground if they want.

But you could try running a poll like:

1. I want trade system to stay the way it is.
2. I want Auction House added to the system with appropriate anti-botting measures with saving guild traders.
3. I want Auction House with appropriate anti-botting measures to replace the current guild traders.

I would choose a second option.

Grao

grom1024 wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Above are some people with hundreds of thousands of gold and are worried that they'll seem less rich in a working system.

People say this a lot and it's nonsense. I'm in a good trade guild with a prime spot and I don't see any collusion or exploiting the system, just weekly raffles and such like any other guild.

What supporters of the global auction house overlook is that people like me will game the holy hell out of a global store front. I've done it in other MMOs and I'd do it here as well. I wouldn't need a guild or raffles or any of that nonsense, just me and a couple hours hacking some LUA and boom, your markets belong to me. The current system makes such market domination infeasible for the solo individual and difficult for large guilds. A global auction house would make it trivial for everyone.

Your cure is worse than the disease.

Wouldn't that get you a ban though ? Well, with ZOS, a 3 day suspension I guess....

You could fully automate the process and yes, that would be a TOS violation... but it's not necessary to do so. I was thinking of a modified Master Merchant addon to scan the AH and an extension to AwesomeGuildStore that would automatically surface the best deals. I'd keep a laptop running ESO around and every half hour or so run a scan of the AH, buy up any good deals and immediately realist them for higher prices.

And it would not just be me, hundreds of people would do this. Many of them wouldn't just play the buy-low-sell-high game either, they would actively seek to control entire chunks of the market. And as long as people were not automating the process there would not be a single suspension or ban.

If there is account-wide limit 100 buy and sell deals per day, or 50 deals per day accumulated for 12 days max like enlightenment now, then your script will stop to work and load up servers with queries. And you assume that API would allow you doing it. It is not necessary so. Requiring human confirmation for sale or buy fill force you to sit near notebook, or violate ToS with perma-ban possibility by using third party program to skip this step. For each too-smart-for-own-good, there is possible improvement in the code that would make it worthless. Normal users will not notice such restrictions, only market players. They will have to play smart to squeeze any speculation income in such situation and focus on high-level goods.

That is a stupid idea no MMO worth its name would go with. Controlling the market, playing the market is considered a valid play style in MMOs. Creating silly rules to limit players from playing would be same as saying 'Oh you can only kill up to 20 people in PvP per day'. It is stupid.

Avidspark

No.

Avidspark

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character

u can, and even play your build.

Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that

I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.

Grao

Avidspark wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character

u can, and even play your build.

Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that

I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.

Tell me about it... I have all professions maxed, every useful skill and passive in the game and 4 different weapons unlocked and I still have Skill Points left. >.>

TheUrbanWizard

Avidspark wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character

u can, and even play your build.

Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that

I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.

Ditto. It seems impossible at the start (or where @ScottK1994 is at the moment) but it really isn't if you invest time. Wood, cloth, bsmith, enchanting, provisioning (easy) and just need to finish up alchemy.

Elsonso

Conquistador wrote: »

I have grown tired of spending all day to find something. I just do without now. It's exhausting and stupid to have to zone everywhere to find an item.

What the blazes are you looking for?

exeeter702 wrote: »

Interesting..... have none of you ever stopped to think for a second that the reason they opted for this system over an auction house is due to server limitations?

This subject has come up before. There are a number of arguments not well represented in the current thread. Mind you, not all of these I necessarily agree with...

1. Overhead delivering the list of items for sale to you would introduce latency in the item list. (network load)
2. Server complexity dealing with contention on a wider scale (server load)
3. ZOS could not program a UI for guild traders, why would anyone thing they would make a usable UI for an auction house?
4. ZOS creates 2 bugs for every fix, not even counting new bugs for every feature. It could be years before an auction house actually worked. Exploits, item loss, and gold loss would be a certainty.
5. Guild Traders are a gold sink so an auction house would require a large "house cut" to compensate
6. Auction houses encourage and support gold sellers more than the guild system does
7. Cut-throat pricing is more frequent, so there would be more "one copper undercutting"

idk

grom1024 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.

The two systems cannot co-exist, which is since on system would overtake the other (which does not mean Zos should let the two systems duel it out).

Additionally, and more important, many, would think your opinion that some of us are defending the fun for a few out of the inconvenience for the many. Complaining about dislike of something is more common than vocal support of an idea. If the guild trader situation was truly disliked by most, and only liked by the "few" the forums would have blown up about this long ago and yet is has not.

The most important aspect of discussion like this is understanding a few points?

1. People have differing opinions of what they would like to have in game. Neither side is necessarily wrong though sometimes people use incorrect information to support their argument.
2. Not everything in the game will be as we would prefer it. This is really just a matter of life as there are many things all of us would like different.
3. Most of us do not see the big picture since we lack the information to be able to see what is really going on.

In the end we should respect others thoughts, be constructive and avoid generalizations to try to support our arguments.

Dradhok

A well constructed AH only serves to create an equitable well-functioning system were all players have a common place to buy and sell their wares. The people that are vehemently opposed are the people that are deeply invested in their guild trader and monopolize.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Avidspark wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character

u can, and even play your build.

Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that

I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.

I too have mastered all 6 crafting on my 1 main toon, have plenty of skill points, (at 320+ SP atm), and about to get another next time I go PvP. Yes, it is completely possible to max all crafting on 1 toon...:)

idk

Dradhok wrote: »

A well constructed AH only serves to create an equitable well-functioning system were all players have a common place to buy and sell their wares. The people that are vehemently opposed are the people that are deeply invested in their guild trader and monopolize.

Define a well functioning AH. I have yet to see one. Additionally, I request supporting information to back up your oppinion of those who support the guild traders.

I respect that you voice your opinion, but ask you support your generalizations.

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Avidspark wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

And it's not like I can be a blacksmith,woodworker, alchemist, enchanter, provisional guy all on the same character

u can, and even play your build.

Nah I've two builds. I'm a wood worker and clothier, I have 8 skill points left. It's not a reasonable end game amicability to do every single quest that requires a skill point(which I've done many) and I probably still wouldn't have enough points if I did to max others out. You can't master every single skill with one character Why would they allow that

I have (every crafting skill mastered), and still play my DK mage build with ease...it's not as hard as you're making out.

I too have mastered all 6 crafting on my 1 main toon, have plenty of skill points, (at 320+ SP atm), and about to get another next time I go PvP. Yes, it is completely possible to max all crafting on 1 toon...:)

Easily can be done. I have three characters maxed on crafting. 2 can dps and heal. The third can dps and tank which requires even more points. I have more than a few points left over on each.

If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.

bedlom

As much as I love guild traders, unless they do something to keep the bidding reasonable and fair.
Then I think it might be time for zeni to start considering some sort of standard world auction store.

Beardimus

The issue with this thread is those support AH seem to ignore all the comments around people asking what it is they are spending these hours trawling for. These 'constant daily trawls' getting in the way of their game play.

I really don't get it. I trawl for sure, for rare set pieces or things im feeling lazy to farm and love a deal. But if you are using traders to buy all your day to day stuff then you are just darn laz and creating yourself a headache that you think AH is needed to fix

Do the crafts, takes no time to level if you focus, craft all your daily stuff in bulk then all you need traders for is rare stuff. Which is no effort

Reads to me like the instant gratification squad are too lazy to craft, want to buy it all, aren't event happy with that and want to buy it all now, easily and for one price. Man. Just play the game!!!!!

phairdon

Stated many times before about an auction house being a good idea. Joined a trading guild about one month back. The guild lost its trader a week ago. Cannot sell anything obviously. Not only can no guild member sell, we also help out by putting money in the guild bank to help keep/obtain a trader. Losing more money than made, that is for sure.
About time this game added a auction house.

AntMan100673

I've not played any other MMO's so don't have experience of AH's in other games, my intuition tells me the following would happen: It would be a lot easier for buyers to find what they're looking for; it would be easier for sellers to do a price check before listing; players just wanting a quick sale would undercut the lowest price by 1 gold; the prices of a lot of common and easily obtained items would plummet which would be good for the buyer but bad for the seller. The price of rare and hard to get items would skyrocket which would be good for the seller but bad for the buyer. The amount of gold you could then make from the AH would have a strong correlation with the amount of time you play and how efficiently that time is used so only the hardcore players would make decent gold from an AH. Casual players would mainly be getting their gold from selling low level common items and not getting much for it and then the forum would be filled with 'I cant afford to buy x in the AH, the prices are ridiculous' threads. I've had the game since launch on console and I'm up to about 430 CP's so I'm not super casual but I'd say the amount of time I get to play puts me closer to the casual end of the spectrum. I use the guild traders for both buying and selling, I like how it works currently as it gives me the option to hunt out bargains and flip them for a profit, none of the guilds I'm in charge a weekly fee or have a sales quota though I still donate tens of thousands of gold each week to help towards getting traders and only one of the guilds is up at 500 members and actively manages the roster so the argument some sellers don't have access to the market just seems like they're not making the simple step of joining a guild to me, it doesnt have to be a trade guild with a trader in one of the main cities, any trader will do. A lot of the gold I make from flipping common items as I'm sure a lot of other people do as well so as long as you set your prices low enough everything will sell whatever trader you have. Quite often the reasons I hear for people wanting an AH are because they want eg a level 23 sword of x with y trait and they cant find it anywhere, people don't sell those because hardly anyone buys them because they're outlevelled so quickly which means they wouldn't sell for a lot so aren't worth the time to farm, the only people getting them are other low level players and they're far more likely to use them for research or deconstruct to level up their crafting than sell them anyway. This is another reason to join a guild, most have at least a few crafters who can make any of the craftable sets

jedtb16_ESO

grom1024 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.

how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?

I was talking to people. And even in this thread almost every casual that comes there says that he or she wants AH. And there are much more casuals than hardcore traders. For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required. This is bad user experience, not speaking of the fact that choice offered by guild is too poor because of limited marked size. Only hardcore traders said that they like the guild trade system so far. They still could have their own guild trade playground if they want.

But you could try running a poll like:

1. I want trade system to stay the way it is.
2. I want Auction House added to the system with appropriate anti-botting measures with saving guild traders.
3. I want Auction House with appropriate anti-botting measures to replace the current guild traders.

I would choose a second option.

it takes some effort to find what you need so everything must change?

perhaps you should also be requesting that every toon created be cp510 with all skill lines maxed and a choice of full sets of end game gear? after all it does take some effort to get those things too.

jedtb16_ESO

missjackieb14_ESO wrote: »

I personally find it annoying to have to go to a million and one guild traders just to find some crafting mats. After the millionth trader and not finding the stuff I need, a central AH would be easier and less time wasting. Do you know how much time is wasted just by going to so many traders, just to find out that there's nothing you need on there?

yes i know exactly what its like.....so i go farm for whatever it was,

grom1024

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.

how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?

I was talking to people. And even in this thread almost every casual that comes there says that he or she wants AH. And there are much more casuals than hardcore traders. For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required. This is bad user experience, not speaking of the fact that choice offered by guild is too poor because of limited marked size. Only hardcore traders said that they like the guild trade system so far. They still could have their own guild trade playground if they want.

But you could try running a poll like:

1. I want trade system to stay the way it is.
2. I want Auction House added to the system with appropriate anti-botting measures with saving guild traders.
3. I want Auction House with appropriate anti-botting measures to replace the current guild traders.

I would choose a second option.

it takes some effort to find what you need so everything must change?

perhaps you should also be requesting that every toon created be cp510 with all skill lines maxed and a choice of full sets of end game gear? after all it does take some effort to get those things too.

The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons. But there is just a lot of time to spend on walking between stores and working with stores, some of it even non-touching keyboard as addons downloads content of the store. So it is just useless timewaster rather rather interesting challenge for me. Some play meta-game around guild stores maximizing gold, good luck to you, you will be able to play your games on AH too. But for purpose of moving goods from seller to buyer the current system is horrible. It is only good for intermediates who concentrate on this aspect of the game by exploiting its defects. UX design team would have been fired for it IRL.

Beyond wasting time, the system has additional defect, extremely the poor diversity of items in stores. Because market sizes are very small, only limited set of items sell. And not because there are no potential buyers, but because it does not worth buyers to browse items in stores. It does not makes sense to search 2 hours for specific level crafted or chest set item in stores when it would expire in 3 hours. Crafters could not sell their goods (except for high-level alchemy and enchantments), and even low level characters have to invest precious skill points into crafting. This disconnect between buyer and seller is horrible.

grom1024

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.

This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.

Darkstorne

Beardimus wrote: »

The issue with this thread is those support AH seem to ignore all the comments around people asking what it is they are spending these hours trawling for. These 'constant daily trawls' getting in the way of their game play.

I really don't get it. I trawl for sure, for rare set pieces or things im feeling lazy to farm and love a deal. But if you are using traders to buy all your day to day stuff then you are just darn laz and creating yourself a headache that you think AH is needed to fix

Do the crafts, takes no time to level if you focus, craft all your daily stuff in bulk then all you need traders for is rare stuff. Which is no effort

Reads to me like the instant gratification squad are too lazy to craft, want to buy it all, aren't event happy with that and want to buy it all now, easily and for one price. Man. Just play the game!!!!!

Not all of us play regularly. And not everyone enjoys crafting (same way not everyone loves PVP, or raiding). Many of us would rather invest our skill points in combat, and for those of us who still don't even have a level 50 character... it's not possible to be able to craft anything we want.

I often only have an hour to play sometimes. I would love to pass an AH and think "I could use a new level appropriate sword with Training. Let's have a look." Instead I pass a trader and think "Chances are SOME traders in this game have a sword I could use, but no way I'm looking through all of them or that's my hour gone..."

They could easily implement a system with both. Guild traders stay the same, central city Auction Houses have all Guild Trader goods but with a 20% tax increase. Players are incentivised to use Guild Traders if they want to save money, or AH if they want to save time. Trading guilds still need to bid for Guild Stores to sell their wares, but know that the presence of an AH will likely increase their sales. Everyone wins.

grom1024

lordrichter wrote: »

This subject has come up before. There are a number of arguments not well represented in the current thread. Mind you, not all of these I necessarily agree with...

1. Overhead delivering the list of items for sale to you would introduce latency in the item list. (network load)
2. Server complexity dealing with contention on a wider scale (server load)
3. ZOS could not program a UI for guild traders, why would anyone thing they would make a usable UI for an auction house?
4. ZOS creates 2 bugs for every fix, not even counting new bugs for every feature. It could be years before an auction house actually worked. Exploits, item loss, and gold loss would be a certainty.

Every other game managed to create AH, I see not problem with. It is actually a simpler task than a group finder which involve quite a lot of math (theory of optimization). Different anti-botting measures might be implemented to prevent issues. Searches also could be reduced by time, result size, and search query size, etc. Daily transaction limit could also save server time.

lordrichter wrote: »

6. Guild Traders are a gold sink so an auction house would require a large "house cut" to compensate
7. Auction houses encourage and support gold sellers more than the guild system does
8. Cut-throat pricing is more frequent, so there would be more "one copper undercutting"

Restricting amount of daily transaction will make AH less interesting to bots, gold sellers, and market exploiters. For 1g undercutting, I could live with it and I have done it a lot too in other game because it was the way that market worked. It is not a big problem actually, as for popular goods I'll just get a bit later and for goods with big oversupply I'll just stop posting.

jedtb16_ESO

grom1024 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess its how we grew up with gaming. I believe in rewards behind hard work. Others want to be spoonfed selffishly because their content is more important than content for merchants (us, the group that enjoys haggaling, bargain hunting, maximizing our profit potentials).

Then there will be no problem with situation when two system co-exists. Currently you are defending the fun for few out of inconvenience for many.

how do you know it is only fun for a few and an inconvenience for many?

I was talking to people. And even in this thread almost every casual that comes there says that he or she wants AH. And there are much more casuals than hardcore traders. For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required. This is bad user experience, not speaking of the fact that choice offered by guild is too poor because of limited marked size. Only hardcore traders said that they like the guild trade system so far. They still could have their own guild trade playground if they want.

But you could try running a poll like:

1. I want trade system to stay the way it is.
2. I want Auction House added to the system with appropriate anti-botting measures with saving guild traders.
3. I want Auction House with appropriate anti-botting measures to replace the current guild traders.

I would choose a second option.

it takes some effort to find what you need so everything must change?

perhaps you should also be requesting that every toon created be cp510 with all skill lines maxed and a choice of full sets of end game gear? after all it does take some effort to get those things too.

The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons. But there is just a lot of time to spend on walking between stores and working with stores, some of it even non-touching keyboard as addons downloads content of the store. So it is just useless timewaster rather rather interesting challenge for me. Some play meta-game around guild stores maximizing gold, good luck to you, you will be able to play your games on AH too. But for purpose of moving goods from seller to buyer the current system is horrible. It is only good for intermediates who concentrate on this aspect of the game by exploiting its defects. UX design team would have been fired for it IRL.

Beyond wasting time, the system has additional defect, extremely the poor diversity of items in stores. Because market sizes are very small, only limited set of items sell. And not because there are no potential buyers, but because it does not worth buyers to browse items in stores. It does not makes sense to search 2 hours for specific level crafted or chest set item in stores when it would expire in 3 hours. Crafters could not sell their goods (except for high-level alchemy and enchantments), and even low level characters have to invest precious skill points into crafting. This disconnect between buyer and seller is horrible.

you are contradicting yourself now......in the post i responded to you said "For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required" and then in your response to my post you say "The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons"

so which is it?

too much effort or too little effort?

it can't be both. (and if it takes too little effort what are you complaining about?)

also - the guild traders are sellers markets..... people offer what they want (and hope) to sell. that is not a fault of 'the system'. possibly a fault of your expectation though. that sellers market is self regulating - you offer something for sale and get a buyer, fine try it again. if you offer something for sale and it dosn't sell you withdraw it and try something else. it is a simple system requiring little external regulation and it prevents the abuses possible in a global ah.

grom1024

Grao wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Above are some people with hundreds of thousands of gold and are worried that they'll seem less rich in a working system.

People say this a lot and it's nonsense. I'm in a good trade guild with a prime spot and I don't see any collusion or exploiting the system, just weekly raffles and such like any other guild.

What supporters of the global auction house overlook is that people like me will game the holy hell out of a global store front. I've done it in other MMOs and I'd do it here as well. I wouldn't need a guild or raffles or any of that nonsense, just me and a couple hours hacking some LUA and boom, your markets belong to me. The current system makes such market domination infeasible for the solo individual and difficult for large guilds. A global auction house would make it trivial for everyone.

Your cure is worse than the disease.

Wouldn't that get you a ban though ? Well, with ZOS, a 3 day suspension I guess....

You could fully automate the process and yes, that would be a TOS violation... but it's not necessary to do so. I was thinking of a modified Master Merchant addon to scan the AH and an extension to AwesomeGuildStore that would automatically surface the best deals. I'd keep a laptop running ESO around and every half hour or so run a scan of the AH, buy up any good deals and immediately realist them for higher prices.

And it would not just be me, hundreds of people would do this. Many of them wouldn't just play the buy-low-sell-high game either, they would actively seek to control entire chunks of the market. And as long as people were not automating the process there would not be a single suspension or ban.

If there is account-wide limit 100 buy and sell deals per day, or 50 deals per day accumulated for 12 days max like enlightenment now, then your script will stop to work and load up servers with queries. And you assume that API would allow you doing it. It is not necessary so. Requiring human confirmation for sale or buy fill force you to sit near notebook, or violate ToS with perma-ban possibility by using third party program to skip this step. For each too-smart-for-own-good, there is possible improvement in the code that would make it worthless. Normal users will not notice such restrictions, only market players. They will have to play smart to squeeze any speculation income in such situation and focus on high-level goods.

That is a stupid idea no MMO worth its name would go with. Controlling the market, playing the market is considered a valid play style in MMOs. Creating silly rules to limit players from playing would be same as saying 'Oh you can only kill up to 20 people in PvP per day'. It is stupid.

Playing and controlling the market by few players reduce fun for other players and it even might make them quit. ZOS as owner of server might take any measures to prevent that. A lot of risk of unrestricted AH were outlined in this thread. This only means that reasonably restricted AH will be better solution. Daily transaction limit looks like a good solution to reduce many of outlined risks. Also this would make life difficult for gold sellers. IRL there are no unrestricted markets too, there are rules an regulation that prevent at least some market abuse scenarios.

I do not mind of leaving guild stores as they are, so might play into market control in them, leaving AH more tailored to casual players.

grom1024

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you are contradicting yourself now......in the post i responded to you said "For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required" and then in your response to my post you say "The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons"

so which is it?

too much effort or too little effort?

it can't be both. (and if it takes too little effort what are you complaining about?)

also - the guild traders are sellers markets..... people offer what they want (and hope) to sell. that is not a fault of 'the system'. possibly a fault of your expectation though. that sellers market is self regulating - you offer something for sale and get a buyer, fine try it again. if you offer something for sale and it dosn't sell you withdraw it and try something else. it is a simple system requiring little external regulation and it prevents the abuses possible in a global ah.

You see, there are two categories of efforts:

• Challenging and rewarding efforts is what we come here for.
• Too much trivial, boring, and unrewarding effort IRL is why we come to game. And I do not want to do that in the game.

I have posted a lot on it above: the smaller the market, the less possible diversity. This is just pure math, and there is little way around it. Any market self regulates to diversity optimal for it. For small markets the poor diversity is optimal. For larger markets, greater diversity is optimal. It is just like petrol station kiosks (poor diversity and only most common goods) and Wallmart (great diversity with a lot of niche goods). Greater amount of guilds does not solves problems, what matter is size of individual market. We have a lot of pertol station kiosk, but the diversity in them is still poor, they are almost carbon copy of each other despite of different owners. Guild stores are also almost carbon copy of each other if we take goods that sells in the system.

logosloki

I love the asymmetry of guild traders (multiple markets) rather than faction/global auction house. What the current system needs though is the same amount of information that Eve Online gives its players to deal with a similar system, which is regional auction houses (markets) with a contract system. I should be able to look at an item and then look at trading volume, X day average price, the item's value in different guilds, etc.

jedtb16_ESO

grom1024 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you are contradicting yourself now......in the post i responded to you said "For buyer to reach seller too much effort is required" and then in your response to my post you say "The problem that there is no efforts to spend on looking up item, as operations are too simple and even more so with addons"

so which is it?

too much effort or too little effort?

it can't be both. (and if it takes too little effort what are you complaining about?)

also - the guild traders are sellers markets..... people offer what they want (and hope) to sell. that is not a fault of 'the system'. possibly a fault of your expectation though. that sellers market is self regulating - you offer something for sale and get a buyer, fine try it again. if you offer something for sale and it dosn't sell you withdraw it and try something else. it is a simple system requiring little external regulation and it prevents the abuses possible in a global ah.

You see, there are two categories of efforts:

• Challenging and rewarding efforts is what we come here for.
• Too much trivial, boring, and unrewarding effort IRL is why we come to game. And I do not want to do that in the game.

I have posted a lot on it above: the smaller the market, the less possible diversity. This is just pure math, and there is little way around it. Any market self regulates to diversity optimal for it. For small markets the poor diversity is optimal. For larger markets, greater diversity is optimal. It is just like petrol station kiosks (poor diversity and only most common goods) and Wallmart (great diversity with a lot of niche goods). Greater amount of guilds does not solves problems, what matter is size of individual market. We have a lot of pertol station kiosk, but the diversity in them is still poor, they are almost carbon copy of each other despite of different owners. Guild stores are also almost carbon copy of each other if we take goods that sells in the system.

who is this 'we' you speak of?

that's the thing about mmo populations - most of them seldom, if ever, visit the game forum. of those that do most are looking for a bit of information or a solution to a problem - can't find x or y or a quest dosn't seem to work. then there are the lurkers - people who follow stuff but do not ever post. then there are the people who do post - the atypical gamers, a tiny tiny fraction of the people who actually play the game. i do not claim to be speaking for anyone other than myself - i do not claim to know what the vast majority of the people who play this game think about it for the simple reason that i have no way of knowing what they think about it - and nor do you. so stop pretending to speak 'for the masses'. you are following your own (deeply flawed) agenda - stop pretending you have some magical insight into what the majority think.

how do i know those things? look at the research, there's lots of it.

what you call lack of diversity is simply the way the market regulates itself - people sell things that are going to net a profit - that's how trading anywhere works. having an auction house is not going to change that. the current system limits the number of members in a guild and the number of trade slots available to each member and the total number of trade posts - do you think that is an accident? or perhaps something to do with server load - a sound(ish) practical limitation.

when i trade i offer the things that i know will sell and net me the biggest profit - i suspect (though i do not know for certain) that other people do the same. i am not going to waste time selling low level gear for the simple reason that if i got that as a drop there is a good chance the several hundred thousand other people did too. so there is an ah - it will have a limited number of slots per player and (it seems reasonable to suppose) players will try to make the most of those slots by offering the things that are likely to make them the highest return exactly the same as it is now. your argument for ah increasing diversity has so many holes in it you could use it to catch fish.