@ZOS, please consider lifting the 'exploit' tag from gap closers

iam117 · July 2016

Grao wrote: »

liv3mind wrote: »

/signed about gap closers, unless they are willing to address the entire community through game or email then they should not be putting it as an exploit to report those who have been using it and will not see that it will be treated as such now, not saying its right to use it, but zenimax's decision on how to address the community (a small portion of it anyways) is wrong. they need to address everyone, so everyone is aware of it, or they need to fix it, really they need to do both.

Thanks for returning us to the real subject of this thread @liv3mind ! And yes, that is precisely my point, it is apparent that ZOS doesn't want to send out a an email or an in game mail concerning this issue, likely because they believe it generates bad PR, so... We need a different solution. Until Zenimax can fix gap closers or until they feel confident enough to talk openly to their players... I think legalizing the use of gap closers as they are is the best solution we can get.

idk about allowing it, although they have allowed getting into keeps for 2 years now, dk's, and sorcs can do it with streak, i have seen people get in up areas with ambush, and back into places with shade. yes i agree if they are not willing to fix it and are unwilling to do anything other than comment on a thread (that does not count as talking to your playerbase zeni!!), then they should not punish for it. i mean really they rely on people to send in video etc in order to do anything (another fault of complany) but at the very least if they are going to call it an exploit that is punishable, they have to address every player that plays their game. bullshite. bad policy. end of sentence. and paragraph!

Soleya · July 2016

They should add an invisible horizontal collision plane at the height of the walls. If someone passes through the plane from below by using a gap closer their player instantly dies. If they do it again, their AP is reset to 0 (including their PVP skill line).

I do find it funny how someone can use a gap closer to get on a wall 75 feet high, but 2 days ago in Blessed Crucible the first Giant Boss knocked me off the ledge he's on and I couldn't get back up with Ambush, even though that's like maybe 6 feet high.

Or that on my Templar focused charge skill almost never works, even in flat terrain or open rooms.

Sandman929 · July 2016

Thevorpal1 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Thevorpal1 wrote: »

I have zero problem pvping and not abusing a gap closer to circumvent keep capturing mechanics.

I know right from wrong.

/no sympathy here

Hey, no sympathy either, but it is clear Zenimax is not willing to enforce their rules very strongly. They don't want to ban everyone using the gap closers exploit, why they are not sending out a warning to the community about this problem. When it is time to announce new crown store items they are not shy from Emailing the entire player base, the could do the same about gap closers, but they choose not to. They could send an in game mail to every character in their game very easily as well, they choose not to. They want players to have the excuse of being unaware gap closing on to walls and through doors is considered an exploit. This 'solution'... It is a compromise, nothing more.

Necrelios wrote: »

Instead of getting booted from a campaign, I think if someone gets reported for spying enough times they should go "rogue" and become killable by all factions. Payback time ya son of a betty netch. Skeevers gonnna skeeve though, so watcha gonna do.

Probably too much coding involved in that. I think someone getting booted from Cyrodiil and have their account unable to join PvP for a time is a better punishment and easier to accomplish.

I don't need an email telling me a bug is considered an exploit. You only need to rub 2 braincells together to know this is not an intended mechanic, and to exploit it could jeapordize your account standing.

Think you need to read the TOS again because exploits are covered in it. We are required to report them, not abuse them.

Perhaps they could include the message about exploits in the Congrats on CP160 in-game mail that it seems I'll be getting every single day for the rest of time.

sagitter · July 2016

About spyes there is a better solution. When you enter Cyrodiil with faction A , you are forced to wait 1 day at least , if you want enter Cyrodiil again with a faction B character.1 day is required because there are ppl in guilds that love to spy and 30 mins are not enough.Do you want to spy? OK than you are not going to play with u guild for an entire day.This system already works with another game, and could be ip based other than account based.

Grao · July 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

As I said, this was just a suggestion in a threat that is more about how to handle the gap closing issue. ^^

The gap closer issue needs to be dealt with. I don't think anyone's questioning that. But, the suggestion you made was (or appeared to be) to ignore that problem entirely, and instead allow players to go off on members of their own alliance in Cyrodiil.

Now, if that was your intent, it's a terrible suggestion, which is what people are telling you. If that wasn't your suggestion, then you need to rethink, and rephrase your idea.

Acknowledging a problem with an ability exists and owning up that problem is not the same as ignoring the issue entirely. What Zenimax has been doing is far more the equivalent of ignoring than what I am proposing, being forced to accept this 'unintended mechanic' as acceptable will put even more pressure on their coders to fix the problem as maintaining the problem is the same as surrendering.

Right now, Zenimax is not punishing those using gap closers. It doesn't matter if they say it is an exploit if they are unwilling to alert the entire community to this problem AND enforce their TOS, it is that simple. Far better if they allow everyone to use the broken ability than allow only those willing to break their TOS to do it, which is what they are doing right now.

Grao · July 2016

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

They should add an invisible horizontal collision plane at the height of the walls. If someone passes through the plane from below by using a gap closer their player instantly dies. If they do it again, their AP is reset to 0 (including their PVP skill line).

I do find it funny how someone can use a gap closer to get on a wall 75 feet high, but 2 days ago in Blessed Crucible the first Giant Boss knocked me off the ledge he's on and I couldn't get back up with Ambush, even though that's like maybe 6 feet high.

Or that on my Templar focused charge skill almost never works, even in flat terrain or open rooms.

All that would be awesome, but you are assuming their coders that can't fix gap closers can actually do what you are proposing. I have serious doubts they can.

Grao · July 2016

sagitter wrote: »

About spyes there is a better solution. When you enter Cyrodiil with faction A , you are forced to wait 1 day at least , if you want enter Cyrodiil again with a faction B character.1 day is required because there are ppl in guilds that love to spy and 30 mins are not enough.Do you want to spy? OK than you are not going to play with u guild for an entire day.This system already works with another game, and could be ip based other than account based.

That is actually an interesting idea. I don't think it would be terribly hard to code it.

Whatzituyah · July 2016

I would say I disagree because its not really possible to prove that someone is spying! An active GM needs to ref the Cyrodiil servers for that and let them decide but nope were stuck with report options.

iam117 · July 2016

Whatzituyah wrote: »

I would say I disagree because its not really possible to prove that someone is spying! An active GM needs to ref the Cyrodiil servers for that and let them decide but nope were stuck with report options.

i hear those are extremely rare to see in their natural environment, possibly even extinct? maybe the species on the other end of the reports are endangered now too.

InvitationNotFound · July 2016

Grao wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

what the hell did i read here?

how about no?

exploitation went on for way too long without any punishment. your statement now is "let's exploit the sh** out of the game, let us all exploit and take advantage of it". seriously?

you believe your great system of spy reporting can't be abused? oh you know, i don't like that guy and so does my guild. seriously?

there are issues with the way they deal with it (regarding communication to name one). but what you obviously want is to ignore exploits and label it okay for whatever *****d up reason you have.

regarding the mess ZOS created. well, they did. not for the first time. so you think that legitimates exploitation? no, it doesn't.

even if they wouldn't have introduced that mess, you would have bugs in the game, which might be exploitable. software always has bugs. and guess what, they are always introduced by the developer. according to this, you suggest we can keep exploiting the sh** out of the game?

One of those Ragers I knew we'd get that didn't stop to consider this could actually improve things a little.

First of all, I already said I am against exploiting, that doesn't mean I am blind to the situation Zenimax has created. They don't dare advertise to all their players that there is a issue with gap closers they haven't been able to patch because, first, this may cause more people to use said exploit, and second, it makes ZOS look even more incompetent, which is bad for the game.

My point on regularizing this particular exploit is very simple, there are too many people using it at this point for Zenimax to ban everyone. It won't happen, to expect them to do it is ridiculous and unrealistic. Even the streamers are doing it all the time and you must know ZOS can't lose those as they are free advertising to their game.

Regularizing gap closers would at least allow everyone to use them and it should diminish the toxicity in PvP and even here in the forums. It is not ideal, no. Ideally ZOS wouldn't have released this bug, but hey, ideally ZOS would have better coders than they have and this game would be far better than it is. This is a solution players and the company can probably live with as at least it is fair to everyone.

As for the anti spy system, yes... It has problems, alas, it we currently have nothing that allows us to handle spies. I am just getting the ball rolling on having a system that does give us resources to handle said problem, if you have a better idea, go right ahead and explain it. Remember to make it somewhat easy to code though...

oh well, might consider you as someone raging about punishments against exploiters, someone who wants to justify exploitation with completely ignoring the simple fact that abusing a bug is an exploit and is in most mmo a ban-able offense.

but hey, there are a lot of complete ret***s out there who believe this whole gap closer thing was completely intended and not a bug at all. to be honest, in such a case a few days without ESO would do them probably good.

funny how you come up with your first point, while i wrote

there are issues with the way they deal with it (regarding communication to name one)

actually they wouldn't even need to communicate the exploit, as it is common sense that this whole thing is a bug. e.g. abusing it = exploiting. if you do not understand what that is, feel free to read the definition somewhere, e.g. wikipedia

as far as i know, exploiting is covered in their terms of service. e.g. you'll risk to get banned. again, common sense in a mmorpg.

i don't say they shouldn't communicate better, they should. but just because they don't doesn't mean at all that abusing said bug is okay. it's not. it's still what it is, an exploit.

you can cry as much as you want about it, but if ZOS would begin (haven't seen any evidence yet) banning people for exploiting respectively cheating it would be a good thing. just because some ret***s make you believe that they believe this is intended doesn't mean it's okay and they should get away with it.

My point on regularizing this particular exploit is very simple, there are too many people using it at this point for Zenimax to ban everyone.

[censored myself here because of this massive pile of bull****]
what kind of sick argumentation is it to say "just because many people are doing it, we have to accept it". so let's say if the crime rate in your town is really really high, we have to legalize robbery and other crimes? seriously?
you probably should think about what a ban is or can be. it can simply mean, "hey dude, you were abusing a bug. therefore we'll suspend your account for 3 days. if you keep exploiting you'll get banned again. we will increase the time of each ban with every offense you commit".
is this a huge deal? not it isn't, not at all (it wouldn't enough for some CE guys...). adequate for exploiters? yes.

Even the streamers are doing it all the time and you must know ZOS can't lose those as they are free advertising to their game.

great argument.... who cares? i don't mind if they ban (again, we're talking about something temporary) some streamers for doing it. it would actually be the right thing to do, otherwise people would assume that there are different "classes" of players...

Regularizing gap closers would at least allow everyone to use them and it should diminish the toxicity in PvP and even here in the forums.

you know, not everyone wants to exploit the cr** out of the game.
and i doubt it would change anything on the toxicity here or in PVP.

It is not ideal, no. Ideally ZOS wouldn't have released this bug, but hey, ideally ZOS would have better coders than they have and this game would be far better than it is.

i actually don't know if they are competent or not. i have my doubts as well. but it might be management / budget related as well (or that might be the only reason why the game is how it is).
and btw. you probably shouldn't call other players ragers when you directly say the developers are incompetent. just saying...

This is a solution players and the company can probably live with as at least it is fair to everyone.

your living in a very interesting world it seems.
so because everyone can abuse a bug it's getting fair (besides not all classes (e.g. magicka sorcs) have a gap closer)? really? you know, everyone can install CE. no issues there as well.
considering the usage of exploits fair really made me laugh here.

As for the anti spy system, yes... It has problems, alas, it we currently have nothing that allows us to handle spies.

so you mix up two things. a) do not ban exploiters b) give us a method to play game master (e.g. let us deal with spies).

I am just getting the ball rolling on having a system that does give us resources to handle said problem, if you have a better idea, go right ahead and explain it.

and your suggestion is that players can decide who gets banned (oh wait, here we have a temporary ban that is fine). whenever players are involved in the direct decision it will be abused. it doesn't matter with what you're coming up.
remember when people were complain they were banned because too many people have reported them? does any of this sound like a practical solution?

Remember to make it somewhat easy to code though...

well, maybe they should just fix their mess. in the meantime they should handle exploiters (not only gap closer, whatever fits that description). and after they fixed their mess (which might take a few years) they should keep punish exploiters.

Tobius · July 2016

What worries me, is that I have never intentional used a gap-closer to get into a keep, but I have been pulled into a keep by accident when I hit a player that somehow is able to get through a door right when I hit them. Usually die a very quick death. And twice I have used a gap-closer on a NPC and gotten stuck in a wall. With the talk of bans going around, I have almost stopped using my gap-closer anywhere near a keep.

Wollust · July 2016

Yes to the gap close thing. I don't believe anyone should be banned for ZoS incompetence to fix this issue that was reported way back on the PTS and went live nonetheless. Also, I believe it's important to consider that NBs and DKs have been able to gap close into keeps since more or less ever. It's simply inconsistent to start punishing people now after more than 2 years for doing it, just because everyone has the possibility to do so now.

Pomaikai · July 2016

FloppyFrank wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

Instead of getting booted from a campaign, I think if someone gets reported for spying enough times they should go "rogue" and become killable by all factions. Payback time ya son of a betty netch. Skeevers gonnna skeeve though, so watcha gonna do.

Or what if... Hear me out man... What if ZO$ just fixed their *** and didn't punish people who use the gap close bug? But that'll never happen

[Edit to remove bashing]

How about they fix Gap Closers and also punish everyone in some way or fashion who have used them since they were officially announced as an exploit on May 28, 2016. Punishments on a sliding scale based upon how egregious their violations, whether they were bragging about it on YouTube and Twitch, whether they were bragging about it on the forums here, and when busted how much of donkey they acted.

So from basic warnings, to tempbans of varying lengths, and permabans for the real horse's patoots. All bans, of whatever length should include the stripping of all AP earned and removal from the Leaderboards.

Exploiters don't deserve free passes.

Pomaikai · July 2016

Spies and traitors...

Yes, it could be a very interesting game mechanic to be able to punish them, banish them, or even deport them back to the faction they are spying for.

The only issue that I can see is that it could get all Lord of the Flies in each faction real quick. I'm not sure how to make such a system fair and impartial. Maybe a jury of PVE only players who would weigh the evidence?

Phinix1 · July 2016

This all sounds too convoluted to me, and would require far too many man hours for something that quite frankly deserves no special effort on ZOS's part and no mercy.

These people know exactly what they are doing. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and they are not ignorant. Every single person doing this is thinking "well I'll just play dumb and ZOS can't bans me lol." Well, time for a hard lesson in the reality of life there bub.

How should we "inform the community?" Simple:

First offense: Automatic 3-day ban and email with details about yes, this IS an exploit and yes, you WILL be punished for it, which you knew full well was a bug when you exploited it so don't act surprised.

Second offense: Permanent ban. No appeals. No forum access. Period.

ZOS's biggest problem is they are playing WAY too soft with cheaters and exploiters and it completely undermines the confidence of the community in their ability to solve problems.

Letting Cheat Engine exploiters back in was inexcusable.

newtinmpls · July 2016

And in response to the OP, my response is "please ZoS, don't."

Grao · July 2016

@InvitationNotFound , I am not raging, I am reasoning. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to insert a insult or a word that has to be censored every five sentences. That is the typical mark of some one raging, I know, I sometimes rage in this forum as well. Now to debunk your 'arguments'.

First of all, 'exploiting' in gaming is defined as the action of knowingly abusing a unintended mechanics / bug, the key word being 'knowingly'. A bug is only ever considered known to the gaming community of a game once it is fully advertised, thus until Zenimax properly declares the issues with gap closers a bug in a platform with ample visibility to every player of their game, they can't ban the majority of those using this exploits.

They have the options to communicate with the players, they choose not to use it in this matter and that is very telling. If Zenimax isn't even willing to communicate this issue to the player base, do you honestly think they will be banning players for this? If you do, you are completely deluded. We are talking here about a company that didn't keep even those using Cheat Engines permanently banned.

Anyway, moving on. You may not like my argument regarding the number of players abusing this particular bug, but guess what? Numbers speak volumes, specially when cash is involved. Every time Zenimax bans someone, they are likely losing money, if they ban everyone using gap closers to get on walls, well... They will be losing a whole lot of money. That is why they won't do it. Again, you may not like it, but reality is reality. This is a company trying to make money to sustain it self.

And by the way, yes... If everyone can use the bug without fear of being persecuted for it, than yes, it is fair. It is a better alternative than we have right now, which is those willing to violate the TOS or simply ignorant of the fact gap closers are not working as intended using this abilities to great advantage while those that are respectful of the rules are getting screwed. It is very simple, if ZOS is not willing to enforce their TOS in this case, they have to make this case an exception to their TOS.

There are abilities that are available to everyone that can be used to gap close. There is charge in the sword and board tree, there is silver leash, which I think still works, at least it was working on the PTS... So yes, even sorcerers can do it. By the way, terrible choice of example, sorcerers can actually streak to the top of a wall depending on angle and which keep they are attacking.

Anyway, I will leave my final point being that no... Their coders are not competent. Yes, this with all the gap closers being completely broken is a relatively new bug, but gap closers have been problematic since the release of the game and some of them always allowed players to bypass the walls in Cyrodiil. DK's Take Flight since Beta allowed players to get on top of walls... That makes this a near three years old bug that was reported in every patch of this game. So no... They are not likely to perfectly fix every gap closer, some may get fixed, but I doubt Take Flight will.

I understand you don't like my arguments or my idea, that is fine, argue against it instead or raging and putting a bunch of little '*' in your posts. '*' does not intimidate me or favors your arguments.

Grao · July 2016

Tobius wrote: »

What worries me, is that I have never intentional used a gap-closer to get into a keep, but I have been pulled into a keep by accident when I hit a player that somehow is able to get through a door right when I hit them. Usually die a very quick death. And twice I have used a gap-closer on a NPC and gotten stuck in a wall. With the talk of bans going around, I have almost stopped using my gap-closer anywhere near a keep.

And doesn't that suck? You can't use a important ability in your kit because you may end up accused of exploiting? I find it a bit silly... If we expected this bug to be fixed in a week or two, it would be fine, but DB dropped over a month ago and we still see no improvements made to gap closers.

Phinix1 wrote: »

This all sounds too convoluted to me, and would require far too many man hours for something that quite frankly deserves no special effort on ZOS's part and no mercy.

These people know exactly what they are doing. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and they are not ignorant. Every single person doing this is thinking "well I'll just play dumb and ZOS can't bans me lol." Well, time for a hard lesson in the reality of life there bub.

How should we "inform the community?" Simple:

First offense: Automatic 3-day ban and email with details about yes, this IS an exploit and yes, you WILL be punished for it, which you knew full well was a bug when you exploited it so don't act surprised.

Second offense: Permanent ban. No appeals. No forum access. Period.

ZOS's biggest problem is they are playing WAY too soft with cheaters and exploiters and it completely undermines the confidence of the community in their ability to solve problems.

Letting Cheat Engine exploiters back in was inexcusable.

This is never going to happen. If Zenimax allowed players back that had used CE to completely alter the data being communicated to their servers, do you honestly expect them to ban people, even if only temporarily, for dashing to the top of a wall? It will never happen,specially for a first offense. They can't ban someone when they failed to communicate to those players that they were breaking a rule. I am sorry, quite a few gap closers, like Take Flight and Silver Leash seem perfectly fine getting caster on top of walls.

newtinmpls wrote: »

And in response to the OP, my response is "please ZoS, don't."

Such eloquent arguing. I am speechless...

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Dealing with spies is a double-edged sword. Anything you implement to get rid of them can backfire and get rid of innocent players, even friendly fire. The absolute best you can do is simply spread word that this person is a spy so no one ever trusts them again. That is all you really CAN do...

Whatzituyah · July 2016

@UltimaJoe777 Doesn't that count as defamation also name and shame? Essentially breaking a rule to not give info because people think that person is a spy.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777 Doesn't that count as defamation also name and shame? Essentially breaking a rule to not give info because people think that person is a spy.

If it is more than rumored by just a few people and the person is actually a renowned spy by multiple eye-witness accounts then word will spread about them. Also I never said do it here do it in-game lol

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

Uh no Zenimax is able to fix it with their coding they already have the solution in Imperial City with chain suppression. All it needs is 1 or 2 tweaks and it can prevent gap closing into keeps it is that Zenimax dev team is well..... you know...

Pomaikai · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Uh no Zenimax is able to fix it with their coding they already have the solution in Imperial City with chain suppression. All it needs is 1 or 2 tweaks and it can prevent gap closing into keeps it is that Zenimax dev team is well..... you know...

We know exactly what the dev team is. We just can't say it out loud on the forums for fear of being banned.

Everyone join hands and sing camp songs until we believe we're having a good time.

"If I had a hammer, I'd hammer....."

Dredlord · July 2016

Grao wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

At the same time, to prevent abuse, it would be great if ZOS implemented an anti - spy mechanics. Say they add an option to report someone to an automatic system for spying, if the person gets 20 or so reports from their own faction, they get booted from Cyrodiil and are kept from queuing back in to Cyrodiil on that and any other character for at least half an hour. That should dissuade people from logging into alts to let friends break into keeps and give us an alternative to raging when we see obvious spies working against us in Cyrodiil.

This would be abused so hard, so fast. I can already think of a few instances where this would be used wrongly:

1) A guild is trying to farm AP for one of their guildies to get emp, but a non-guildie is at the top of the leaderboard with a 150k lead. Get him booted for "X" time and close the gap, or even better, have them removed from the leaderboard entirely.

2) A group on Faction-X has a bunch of people log onto their Faction-Y alts to boot the emperor of Faction-Y to make taking keeps easier for Faction-X.

3) Someone that PVPs seriously on multiple factions could easily be accused of spying just because they have alts, period.

Do you have a better solution? You can make so sending false reports to the 'spy bot' earns you negative points maybe and if you accumulate too many of those you get prevented from using the system for good plus gets a warning on your player file as intentionally submitting false reports of cheating is surely against the TOS?

Yes the better solution is how it is now, Im sorry your solution was so ill conceived and poorly thought out. There is even more room to exploit your idea than the current system...

InvitationNotFound · July 2016

Grao wrote: »

@InvitationNotFound , I am not raging, I am reasoning. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to insert a insult or a word that has to be censored every five sentences. That is the typical mark of some one raging, I know, I sometimes rage in this forum as well. Now to debunk your 'arguments'.

First of all, 'exploiting' in gaming is defined as the action of knowingly abusing a unintended mechanics / bug, the key word being 'knowingly'. A bug is only ever considered known to the gaming community of a game once it is fully advertised, thus until Zenimax properly declares the issues with gap closers a bug in a platform with ample visibility to every player of their game, they can't ban the majority of those using this exploits.

They have the options to communicate with the players, they choose not to use it in this matter and that is very telling. If Zenimax isn't even willing to communicate this issue to the player base, do you honestly think they will be banning players for this? If you do, you are completely deluded. We are talking here about a company that didn't keep even those using Cheat Engines permanently banned.

Anyway, moving on. You may not like my argument regarding the number of players abusing this particular bug, but guess what? Numbers speak volumes, specially when cash is involved. Every time Zenimax bans someone, they are likely losing money, if they ban everyone using gap closers to get on walls, well... They will be losing a whole lot of money. That is why they won't do it. Again, you may not like it, but reality is reality. This is a company trying to make money to sustain it self.

And by the way, yes... If everyone can use the bug without fear of being persecuted for it, than yes, it is fair. It is a better alternative than we have right now, which is those willing to violate the TOS or simply ignorant of the fact gap closers are not working as intended using this abilities to great advantage while those that are respectful of the rules are getting screwed. It is very simple, if ZOS is not willing to enforce their TOS in this case, they have to make this case an exception to their TOS.

There are abilities that are available to everyone that can be used to gap close. There is charge in the sword and board tree, there is silver leash, which I think still works, at least it was working on the PTS... So yes, even sorcerers can do it. By the way, terrible choice of example, sorcerers can actually streak to the top of a wall depending on angle and which keep they are attacking.

Anyway, I will leave my final point being that no... Their coders are not competent. Yes, this with all the gap closers being completely broken is a relatively new bug, but gap closers have been problematic since the release of the game and some of them always allowed players to bypass the walls in Cyrodiil. DK's Take Flight since Beta allowed players to get on top of walls... That makes this a near three years old bug that was reported in every patch of this game. So no... They are not likely to perfectly fix every gap closer, some may get fixed, but I doubt Take Flight will.

I understand you don't like my arguments or my idea, that is fine, argue against it instead or raging and putting a bunch of little '*' in your posts. '*' does not intimidate me or favors your arguments.

*sighs*

i cite from wikipedia here:

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.[2]

it's not required to know that you are abusing a bug. besides, everyone who abuses this bug knows exactly what he's doing. you assume they are total idiots without a brain at all and therefore have no idea what they are doing. they are. and that's your only justification here. a joke. with this argumentation every exploit would be legitimate.

you can repeat yourself over and over again. i already wrote a response to the way they communicate and if they would even have to communicate it. i could repeat it as well, it just doesn't make any sense and wouldn't add anything to the discussion. same applies to what you're writing btw. which i do not really consider as " I am reasoning." as you claimed above. (guess i have to look for the family guy episode with the donkey and embed it here...)

do you honestly think they will be banning players for this?

if you would have read my comment you wouldn't ask this. here for you again:

but if ZOS would begin (haven't seen any evidence yet) banning people for exploiting respectively cheating it would be a good thing.

it's obvious that i doubt that. but that's not the point. the point is that they should go for a punishment.

but at this point i'm getting a bit confused here. if you believe nothing will happen and no one will be banned... well, why do you even put effort in the justification of exploitation?

sounds like a huge waste of time.

Anyway, moving on. You may not like my argument regarding the number of players abusing this particular bug, but guess what? Numbers speak volumes, specially when cash is involved.

then post your numbers. e.g. from the people in my guild, no one is exploiting this *** and every single one is pissed about it ( a) that the bug exists b) ZOS failing to fix it c) people exploiting it.)
the majority isn't abusing this bug (of course, this is completely subjective, same as your numbers...) in my opinion. but the people who are abusing it are pretty annoying.

Every time Zenimax bans someone, they are likely losing money, if they ban everyone using gap closers to get on walls, well... They will be losing a whole lot of money. That is why they won't do it. Again, you may not like it, but reality is reality. This is a company trying to make money to sustain it self.

again, what sort of argumentation should this be? we're talking here about if they should or should not ban people as they have announced it. just because we doubt they are doing anything we say "okay, don't ban them. please don't. we don't care anymore because we believe you wont do anything". so you suggest that the community should accept exploitation because ZOS likely will give a sh**? *sighs*

And by the way, yes... If everyone can use the bug without fear of being persecuted for it, than yes, it is fair. It is a better alternative than we have right now, which is those willing to violate the TOS or simply ignorant of the fact gap closers are not working as intended using this abilities to great advantage while those that are respectful of the rules are getting screwed. It is very simple, if ZOS is not willing to enforce their TOS in this case, they have to make this case an exception to their TOS.

nope, not everyone is aware of it, not everyone wants to use broken mechanic. it's far away from being fair. i'm not going to comment on the rest as you are repeating yourself again.

There are abilities that are available to everyone that can be used to gap close. There is charge in the sword and board tree, there is silver leash, which I think still works, at least it was working on the PTS... So yes, even sorcerers can do it. By the way, terrible choice of example, sorcerers can actually streak to the top of a wall depending on angle and which keep they are attacking.

yes, sorcs haven't been f**ked over with this patch already, right? now they should switch to sb to get on keep walls or use otherwise completely useless skills. so once they reach the upper wall they are simple prey for the enemies. sounds fair and reasonable.

as i'm not aware of your "they can streak to the top of a wall" i at least hope you've reported that as it sounds like a bug. anyway, feel free to post a video about it as i'm really interested in it.

Anyway, I will leave my final point being that no... Their coders are not competent. Yes, this with all the gap closers being completely broken is a relatively new bug, but gap closers have been problematic since the release of the game and some of them always allowed players to bypass the walls in Cyrodiil. DK's Take Flight since Beta allowed players to get on top of walls... That makes this a near three years old bug that was reported in every patch of this game. So no... They are not likely to perfectly fix every gap closer, some may get fixed, but I doubt Take Flight will.

i didn't praise the devs in my previous post. i simply said there are many reasons and it very likely isn't only the fault of the devs.
and you're repeating yourself. just because it's there and will stay for a while doesn't mean it's okay to exploit it.

I understand you don't like my arguments or my idea, that is fine, argue against it instead or raging and putting a bunch of little '*' in your posts. '*' does not intimidate me or favors your arguments.

Now to debunk your 'arguments'.

well, if you aren't able to read a text because of a few '*' then i'm really sorry for you. i actually picked up all your points and explained what the problem is with it. Unfortunately, i can only find the same thing over and over again, which isn't 'debunking' anything. but funny how you consider everything you write as 'arguments' but consider other peoples arguments not as arguments (otherwise you wouldn't write 'arguments', right? and couldn't be considered as insulting at all.)

maybe you want to pick up this one as it was your second point, right after lets exploit all the things:

and your suggestion is that players can decide who gets banned (oh wait, here we have a temporary ban that is fine). whenever players are involved in the direct decision it will be abused. it doesn't matter with what you're coming up.
remember when people were complain they were banned because too many people have reported them? does any of this sound like a practical solution?

any idea yet how to f*ck up the game even more? or already given up on it?

neville_bart0s · July 2016

ZOS released the patch knowing it was broken. It was reported in the PTS. There are youtube videos from the PTS showing people crit rushing into keeps. ZOS stuffed up.

its not like they can ban everyone that does it so people are just going to keep on doing it.

newtinmpls · July 2016

After the second use of any gap closer to exploit, it would take someone with ... very little intelligence to NOT realize it was an exploit.

Oh well.

I prefer to play in a fun and more honest way.

YMMV

Phinix1 · July 2016

Grao wrote: »

This is never going to happen. If Zenimax allowed players back that had used CE to completely alter the data being communicated to their servers, do you honestly expect them to ban people, even if only temporarily, for dashing to the top of a wall? It will never happen,specially for a first offense. They can't ban someone when they failed to communicate to those players that they were breaking a rule. I am sorry, quite a few gap closers, like Take Flight and Silver Leash seem perfectly fine getting caster on top of walls.

I think this is a false sense of security bro. They ARE perma-banning people for the gap closing exploit right now.

Watching Alcast's live stream and several people are talking about how much they hate ZOS because they were perma-banned for this very thing. At least one was a fairly well-known streamer who was telling all his minions how it was totally safe ZOS can't do anything.

Guess he was wrong.

So, I would advise against spreading that "we can do it because they left it in the game" sense of security, because all you will do is get your buddies banned.

Cazzy · July 2016

HeroOfNone · July 2016

Don't exploit. Should be that simple.

Regardless if ZOS has fixed it or not Don't exploit. We have rules and grey areas, sure. I will be the first to using cheese mechanics on dungeon bosses that could be considered minor exploits by some. But I make sure to report them, don't hang on them as a crutch, and certainly do not use them in cases where it will let me win over another player opponent.

If you don't understand what this is, it's sportsmanship and certain rules in sports the same way they apply to pvp. Can I slide tackle someone while the ref isn't looking? Gouge out someone's eyes in a dogpile? Yes, but it doesn't make it right, especially when done with willful intent.

There will be mistakes, some will gap close into a keep the same way someone can stumble and heel graphics a line backer. That's where you should apologize and appeal the ref (admin's) decision. Keep in mind they may not lift bans or accept your excuses. Especially if you've been doing this repeatedly while as an Emp or if you stream it and call to use it.

As for the fixes, I trust ZOS is working on one, but a solution is not always quick. This was a result of ineffective gap closer, which they fixed and broke another thing. Like a stack of jenga, fix one thing, make something else instable, hope it doesn't crash.

So at best they can roll back to where necessary gap closers don't work and *** off a lot of people, or keep it and say "don't use it in the obvious exploitable way till we fix it". I'm sure they were hoping we could behave like respectful adults here, but once one apple goes bad you need to start filtering out the bad from the good before it's all rotten.

So, yes, folks are being banned for exploiting something that is obviously not intended and are forced to consider playing with some tact. As they stated some of these are 2 day bans or perm bans based on impact. folks reporting that they were permanently banned for their first gap exploit I find highly dubious however. It sounds more likely they were upset with a short banned and wanted an excuse to quit, they were rude to ZOS staff when they appealed, or they aren't telling us about the stack of complaints that has them constantly getting banned.

Boohoo

STOP EXPLOITING especially in PVP