Balanced.

Zheg · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

forumplars inc

You can't take away their radiant oppressionz, cuz their class is so weak. Templar is weak, it's always been weak. You can't kill anyone as a templar, we needs our oppressionz.

stahp itt

I never see any of the sane templars making this argument. If your reading comprehension is at such low levels that you aren't able to retain the almost bullet-point-like rundown explanations, then that actually starts to make a ton of sense for why you're all still so slow on the uptake.

Demonstrate actual broken numbers that cannot be achieved on any other glass cannon build and this "forumplar" will agree that the skill he almost never even uses should be rebalanced. I'm not defending the skill because we need it, I'm defending against the idiotic need for stam builds to feel like they should have zero counters and be able to take on insane numbers like 1.6-orsinium because of how broken their builds were. I'm defending against "nerf this because I'm able to cherry pick examples, ignore all of the other examples where it shows rational numbers, and don't ask too many questions about the guy that died, he was a full tank spec, I promise."

One month in and none of you have been able to demonstrate broken numbers against a reasonable build and mid-level of pvp competency. Not once. If you're actually capable of doing so, then do it. If you can't do it, then maybe it's because you've been dead wrong this whole time and accurately called out on your BS.

This thread below, meant to whine about jesus beam and show how 'broken' it is, showed RD as the last killing blow with an 8.3k CRIT, on an EXECUTE. It also showed 4 separate people each hitting him/her with RD for 1.5k to 2k EACH time. Surely such OP things need to be fixed! Surely you and the other stam builds aren't BSing all of us!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/264924/just-another-day-in-cyrodiil-right#latest

Go solo stamsorc for a day and come back telling me that jesus beam is fine... People will say I exaggerate, but believe me I dont: RD is responsible for about 80% of my deaths, because I rely on a bouncing HP bar, which is hardcountered by that abomination of a skill.

I am by no means invincible as a stamsorc, exactly 2 flash heals a minute - pot + rally, you can never keep up with the beam spams outnumbered. Outnumbered shouldnt mean insta death versus one skill. This skill renders any build not based on shields, cloak or flash heals void.

Please dont be so desperate to defend such an imbalanced skill, just because your class lacks in other departments.

In kena's other whine thread when we ran through the different classes, I made it a point to state that stam sorcs have no good defensive counter, and blamed Wrobel. As you advise, I would point out that stam sorc lacks in many departments, and that lacking leaves them with little innate counters to something like jesus beam, but that by itself doesn't mean jesus beam needs a nerf. It means you need significant buffs. Most of the complaints come from DKs, and that doesn't really fly (pun ) when they're such a strong counter to the super majority of magplar damage on every other front. Everyone feels bad for stam sorcs. I really do hope that bone shield helps, even if only a little. I stopped playing mine a long time ago - it was once my main, the first character I rolled. /sadface

But they can gap close and bash the templar! ...Oh wait... Not holding so tightly to your allegedly ever-present counterplay now, I see.

And Bone Shield won't change a thing. It'll just turn stam things getting pounded by radiant spam into pseudo magicka sorcs spamming shields for dear life as they try to either cross 30m to get to the templar or escape from his group's chase.

I'm glad that the more I preach this message, the more players with actual common sense come out of the woodwork. RD is the laughing stock of good players, the poster-skill of mindless zerglings, and the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next. Well, that and Dark Flare. Thank you @Rylana @PrinceFabious and all the others who've stepped up and commented here. I shall take the brunt of the public backlash if it gets this back in front of ZOS' attention.

As for Zheg and Joy, you've been amusing. We've had many laughs at your back and forth.

/bow2

"We've"? Laughing is good for the soul, so there's that at least. I've come to the conclusion that whoever "we" is, you share a collective IQ in the single digits. If you can't handle the base range of every other ranged attack, you shouldn't be playing a melee class because you lack to skill to do so. I don't know what to tell you Kena, if you, and "we" are dying to the skill as often as you claim, you're no where near as good as you all think you are. In fact, if you'd like, I'll start keeping a list of the random pugs I see in cyrodiil that are able to survive this skill without issue. I would also offer that there's a strong likelihood the crowd you think are "good players" are the same crowd that played stam when it was broken, abused shuffle, tapped shift right before dodge roll, and can't handle that they no longer have overpowered and/or broken mechanics to help them fluff their ego in a highlight video. I can think of far more players that handle jesus beam without any trouble whatsoever, so does that make them better than the 'we'? Food for thought.

On a side note, you know how I know you're completely out of touch with pvp? You're under the assumption that the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next is jesus beam, and not bombard. I think we should get a running list of all of the moronic things you've said thus far. I'll have to come back and add to this, there have been so many:

spambush does no damage on its own
you aren't vulnerable when casting or channeling a skill
less than half of the class archetypes have a counter to jesus beam
jesus beam is a death sentence as soon as you hit 40%
jesus beam should execute at 20% hp like impale, but still be a channel because I don't know what I'm talking about (to paraphrase)
I took cloak off my bar and then had trouble with jesus beam (to paraphrase again)
interrupting/bashing the jesus beam does nothing
RD can't be blocked
NB can't block meteors like the other classes
The damage is the problem. No wait, it's really the hp % at which it starts to execute. Actually, it's the range, yes - the range needs to be nerfed. (No one is buying this BS... EFF! what to do... what to do...) Ahem! It's the damage! The damage is broken! Here's a cherry picked screenshot of someone being ganked on their horse! This one screenshot demonstrates that I must be right! What's that? Video proof that I can actually defend? Uhhh... uhhh... why would you need that, can't you just trust that what I'm saying is right? It shouldn't matter that a month later the crowd that records every moment of their existence in cyrodiil in the hope that they'll have something to put into a highlight reel has absolutely no examples of jesus beam over-performing even though it's such a prevalent issue, right? Hurrr hurrr, with that said, look at all dem forumplars and 'zerglings' (pssst, guys let me know if there are any other buzz words I can drop to make myself look good and have you like me more).
EDIT: skills should be balanced at the expense of 1v1, small group, and every other type of combat (paraphrasing)
EDIT: jesus beam being OP is brought up so frequently on the forums recently that it must mean it needs to be nerfed (*creates 3 threads within the span of 2 days before saying this*)
EDIT: most beamplars run a full pve dps spec in cyrodiil

We can keep insulting each other back and forth until the mods close the thread Kena, but I'm far better at it than you. Plus, I can do it just by quoting your own words, which should speak volumes.

Someone misinformed enough to say the above shouldn't even be part of the conversation, much less be the one 'preaching'.

PrinceFabious · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

forumplars inc

You can't take away their radiant oppressionz, cuz their class is so weak. Templar is weak, it's always been weak. You can't kill anyone as a templar, we needs our oppressionz.

stahp itt

I never see any of the sane templars making this argument. If your reading comprehension is at such low levels that you aren't able to retain the almost bullet-point-like rundown explanations, then that actually starts to make a ton of sense for why you're all still so slow on the uptake.

Demonstrate actual broken numbers that cannot be achieved on any other glass cannon build and this "forumplar" will agree that the skill he almost never even uses should be rebalanced. I'm not defending the skill because we need it, I'm defending against the idiotic need for stam builds to feel like they should have zero counters and be able to take on insane numbers like 1.6-orsinium because of how broken their builds were. I'm defending against "nerf this because I'm able to cherry pick examples, ignore all of the other examples where it shows rational numbers, and don't ask too many questions about the guy that died, he was a full tank spec, I promise."

One month in and none of you have been able to demonstrate broken numbers against a reasonable build and mid-level of pvp competency. Not once. If you're actually capable of doing so, then do it. If you can't do it, then maybe it's because you've been dead wrong this whole time and accurately called out on your BS.

This thread below, meant to whine about jesus beam and show how 'broken' it is, showed RD as the last killing blow with an 8.3k CRIT, on an EXECUTE. It also showed 4 separate people each hitting him/her with RD for 1.5k to 2k EACH time. Surely such OP things need to be fixed! Surely you and the other stam builds aren't BSing all of us!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/264924/just-another-day-in-cyrodiil-right#latest

Go solo stamsorc for a day and come back telling me that jesus beam is fine... People will say I exaggerate, but believe me I dont: RD is responsible for about 80% of my deaths, because I rely on a bouncing HP bar, which is hardcountered by that abomination of a skill.

I am by no means invincible as a stamsorc, exactly 2 flash heals a minute - pot + rally, you can never keep up with the beam spams outnumbered. Outnumbered shouldnt mean insta death versus one skill. This skill renders any build not based on shields, cloak or flash heals void.

Please dont be so desperate to defend such an imbalanced skill, just because your class lacks in other departments.

In kena's other whine thread when we ran through the different classes, I made it a point to state that stam sorcs have no good defensive counter, and blamed Wrobel. As you advise, I would point out that stam sorc lacks in many departments, and that lacking leaves them with little innate counters to something like jesus beam, but that by itself doesn't mean jesus beam needs a nerf. It means you need significant buffs. Most of the complaints come from DKs, and that doesn't really fly (pun ) when they're such a strong counter to the super majority of magplar damage on every other front. Everyone feels bad for stam sorcs. I really do hope that bone shield helps, even if only a little. I stopped playing mine a long time ago - it was once my main, the first character I rolled. /sadface

But they can gap close and bash the templar! ...Oh wait... Not holding so tightly to your allegedly ever-present counterplay now, I see.

And Bone Shield won't change a thing. It'll just turn stam things getting pounded by radiant spam into pseudo magicka sorcs spamming shields for dear life as they try to either cross 30m to get to the templar or escape from his group's chase.

I'm glad that the more I preach this message, the more players with actual common sense come out of the woodwork. RD is the laughing stock of good players, the poster-skill of mindless zerglings, and the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next. Well, that and Dark Flare. Thank you @Rylana @PrinceFabious and all the others who've stepped up and commented here. I shall take the brunt of the public backlash if it gets this back in front of ZOS' attention.

As for Zheg and Joy, you've been amusing. We've had many laughs at your back and forth.

/bow2

"We've"? Laughing is good for the soul, so there's that at least. I've come to the conclusion that whoever "we" is, you share a collective IQ in the single digits. If you can't handle the base range of every other ranged attack, you shouldn't be playing a melee class because you lack to skill to do so. I don't know what to tell you Kena, if you, and "we" are dying to the skill as often as you claim, you're no where near as good as you all think you are. In fact, if you'd like, I'll start keeping a list of the random pugs I see in cyrodiil that are able to survive this skill without issue. I would also offer that there's a strong likelihood the crowd you think are "good players" are the same crowd that played stam when it was broken, abused shuffle, tapped shift right before dodge roll, and can't handle that they no longer have overpowered and/or broken mechanics to help them fluff their ego in a highlight video. I can think of far more players that handle jesus beam without any trouble whatsoever, so does that make them better than the 'we'? Food for thought.

On a side note, you know how I know you're completely out of touch with pvp? You're under the assumption that the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next is jesus beam, and not bombard. I think we should get a running list of all of the moronic things you've said thus far. I'll have to come back and add to this, there have been so many:
spambush does no damage on its own

you aren't vulnerable when casting or channeling a skill

less than half of the class archetypes have a counter to jesus beam

jesus beam is a death sentence as soon as you hit 40%

jesus beam should execute at 20% hp like impale, but still be a channel because I don't know what I'm talking about (to paraphrase)

I took cloak off my bar and then had trouble with jesus beam (to paraphrase again)

interrupting/bashing the jesus beam does nothing

RD can't be blocked

NB can't block meteors like the other classes

The damage is the problem. No wait, it's really the hp % at which it starts to execute. Actually, it's the range, yes - the range needs to be nerfed. (No one is buying this BS... EFF! what to do... what to do...) Ahem! It's the damage! The damage is broken! Here's a cherry picked screenshot of someone being ganked on their horse! This one screenshot demonstrates that I must be right! What's that? Video proof that I can actually defend? Uhhh... uhhh... why would you need that, can't you just trust that what I'm saying is right? It shouldn't matter that a month later the crowd that records every moment of their existence in cyrodiil in the hope that they'll have something to put into a highlight reel has absolutely no examples of jesus beam over-performing even though it's such a prevalent issue, right? Hurrr hurrr, with that said, look at all dem forumplars and 'zerglings' (pssst, guys let me know if there are any other buzz words I can drop to make myself look good and have you like me more).

This is how angry Zheg gets when you threaten his zurg radiant playstyle! You can tell because he wrote three essays instead of one.
*gets passed popcorn from Lyar*

myrrrorb14_ESO · May 2016

Off topic. But saw Spambush in this thread. I haven't taken my nightblade into PvP yet, but I'm doing about 30k all beefed up. Does it get nerfed that bad in PvP where it "does no damage"

Zheg · May 2016

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Off topic. But saw Spambush in this thread. I haven't taken my nightblade into PvP yet, but I'm doing about 30k all beefed up. Does it get nerfed that bad in PvP where it "does no damage"

No, kena just likes to exaggerate when it comes to templars and then demonstrate how little he actually knows when it comes to things like that spambush comment.

Zheg · May 2016

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

forumplars inc

You can't take away their radiant oppressionz, cuz their class is so weak. Templar is weak, it's always been weak. You can't kill anyone as a templar, we needs our oppressionz.

stahp itt

I never see any of the sane templars making this argument. If your reading comprehension is at such low levels that you aren't able to retain the almost bullet-point-like rundown explanations, then that actually starts to make a ton of sense for why you're all still so slow on the uptake.

Demonstrate actual broken numbers that cannot be achieved on any other glass cannon build and this "forumplar" will agree that the skill he almost never even uses should be rebalanced. I'm not defending the skill because we need it, I'm defending against the idiotic need for stam builds to feel like they should have zero counters and be able to take on insane numbers like 1.6-orsinium because of how broken their builds were. I'm defending against "nerf this because I'm able to cherry pick examples, ignore all of the other examples where it shows rational numbers, and don't ask too many questions about the guy that died, he was a full tank spec, I promise."

One month in and none of you have been able to demonstrate broken numbers against a reasonable build and mid-level of pvp competency. Not once. If you're actually capable of doing so, then do it. If you can't do it, then maybe it's because you've been dead wrong this whole time and accurately called out on your BS.

This thread below, meant to whine about jesus beam and show how 'broken' it is, showed RD as the last killing blow with an 8.3k CRIT, on an EXECUTE. It also showed 4 separate people each hitting him/her with RD for 1.5k to 2k EACH time. Surely such OP things need to be fixed! Surely you and the other stam builds aren't BSing all of us!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/264924/just-another-day-in-cyrodiil-right#latest

Go solo stamsorc for a day and come back telling me that jesus beam is fine... People will say I exaggerate, but believe me I dont: RD is responsible for about 80% of my deaths, because I rely on a bouncing HP bar, which is hardcountered by that abomination of a skill.

I am by no means invincible as a stamsorc, exactly 2 flash heals a minute - pot + rally, you can never keep up with the beam spams outnumbered. Outnumbered shouldnt mean insta death versus one skill. This skill renders any build not based on shields, cloak or flash heals void.

Please dont be so desperate to defend such an imbalanced skill, just because your class lacks in other departments.

In kena's other whine thread when we ran through the different classes, I made it a point to state that stam sorcs have no good defensive counter, and blamed Wrobel. As you advise, I would point out that stam sorc lacks in many departments, and that lacking leaves them with little innate counters to something like jesus beam, but that by itself doesn't mean jesus beam needs a nerf. It means you need significant buffs. Most of the complaints come from DKs, and that doesn't really fly (pun ) when they're such a strong counter to the super majority of magplar damage on every other front. Everyone feels bad for stam sorcs. I really do hope that bone shield helps, even if only a little. I stopped playing mine a long time ago - it was once my main, the first character I rolled. /sadface

But they can gap close and bash the templar! ...Oh wait... Not holding so tightly to your allegedly ever-present counterplay now, I see.

And Bone Shield won't change a thing. It'll just turn stam things getting pounded by radiant spam into pseudo magicka sorcs spamming shields for dear life as they try to either cross 30m to get to the templar or escape from his group's chase.

I'm glad that the more I preach this message, the more players with actual common sense come out of the woodwork. RD is the laughing stock of good players, the poster-skill of mindless zerglings, and the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next. Well, that and Dark Flare. Thank you @Rylana @PrinceFabious and all the others who've stepped up and commented here. I shall take the brunt of the public backlash if it gets this back in front of ZOS' attention.

As for Zheg and Joy, you've been amusing. We've had many laughs at your back and forth.

/bow2

"We've"? Laughing is good for the soul, so there's that at least. I've come to the conclusion that whoever "we" is, you share a collective IQ in the single digits. If you can't handle the base range of every other ranged attack, you shouldn't be playing a melee class because you lack to skill to do so. I don't know what to tell you Kena, if you, and "we" are dying to the skill as often as you claim, you're no where near as good as you all think you are. In fact, if you'd like, I'll start keeping a list of the random pugs I see in cyrodiil that are able to survive this skill without issue. I would also offer that there's a strong likelihood the crowd you think are "good players" are the same crowd that played stam when it was broken, abused shuffle, tapped shift right before dodge roll, and can't handle that they no longer have overpowered and/or broken mechanics to help them fluff their ego in a highlight video. I can think of far more players that handle jesus beam without any trouble whatsoever, so does that make them better than the 'we'? Food for thought.

On a side note, you know how I know you're completely out of touch with pvp? You're under the assumption that the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next is jesus beam, and not bombard. I think we should get a running list of all of the moronic things you've said thus far. I'll have to come back and add to this, there have been so many:
spambush does no damage on its own

you aren't vulnerable when casting or channeling a skill

less than half of the class archetypes have a counter to jesus beam

jesus beam is a death sentence as soon as you hit 40%

jesus beam should execute at 20% hp like impale, but still be a channel because I don't know what I'm talking about (to paraphrase)

I took cloak off my bar and then had trouble with jesus beam (to paraphrase again)

interrupting/bashing the jesus beam does nothing

RD can't be blocked

NB can't block meteors like the other classes

The damage is the problem. No wait, it's really the hp % at which it starts to execute. Actually, it's the range, yes - the range needs to be nerfed. (No one is buying this BS... EFF! what to do... what to do...) Ahem! It's the damage! The damage is broken! Here's a cherry picked screenshot of someone being ganked on their horse! This one screenshot demonstrates that I must be right! What's that? Video proof that I can actually defend? Uhhh... uhhh... why would you need that, can't you just trust that what I'm saying is right? It shouldn't matter that a month later the crowd that records every moment of their existence in cyrodiil in the hope that they'll have something to put into a highlight reel has absolutely no examples of jesus beam over-performing even though it's such a prevalent issue, right? Hurrr hurrr, with that said, look at all dem forumplars and 'zerglings' (pssst, guys let me know if there are any other buzz words I can drop to make myself look good and have you like me more).

This is how angry Zheg gets when you threaten his zurg radiant playstyle! You can tell because he wrote three essays instead of one.
*gets passed popcorn from Lyar*

The fact that there were "three essays" worth of stupidity to quote and paraphrase should say everything that needs to be said about these threads.

DisgracefulMind · May 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think it's sad that the forums don't allow for anyone to express their opinions anymore without getting flamed or insulted or talked to in a condescending manner. Not everyone is going to agree on things, and no one is right or wrong. There are points from both sides that can be pulled together into a, perhaps, future compromise, but NO ONE is the end-all opinion of the entire ESO population.

All I've seen is this plethora of the same people acting as though their opinions are exalted.

No one is a martyr here; we're all playing a game and discussing possible balances in this game.

BOTH sides of the argument have good points, and, my own personal opinions on said argument aside, I think both sides of the argument need to be considered if ANY change is going to happen to RD. That's the thing with balancing - it can't be done from an extreme angle either way.

The thing is that I don't see anything wrong with RD as is. It's just fine. So why should I compromise? All I keep seeing is the same poster starting thread after thread in an attempt to nerf something that doesn't need to be. It's sad. And frankly it angers me a bit. What a persistent .... the poster has become!

I didn't say there was or was not actually going to be a compromise to be had, and I didn't state my opinion on RD. I was just trying to make a point that not one person on these forums has an opinion that needs to be raised above everyone else's and exalted. Nor do I like this whole "I'M A MARTYR FOR BALANCE!" mentality that some people have taken on.

I actually don't have too many issues with RD. But if ZoS does end up touching it, I'd rather they not take the extremist point of view and do what is sensible and compromise on it. Because if they do what these threads keep asking, the skill will become worthless, and not just in PvP, but also PvE. Yes, when we want rebalancing of skills, everyone, we need to this about the whole game.
I don't care what your opinion is on PvE, I'm just stating a fact that it is also an aspect of this game that is played by many, many people. So if we're going to scream and kick and cry for nerfs, please consider the entirety of ESO and not just your own bubble.

frozywozy · May 2016

Lmfao @Zheg I really hope you don't take it as seriously as you sound. This is a video game. U're supposed to have fun and remove some stress from your hard day of work. Slow down abit.

Jules · May 2016

Jesus... this RD fight is never ending.

_Chaos · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Jesus... this RD fight is never ending.

entertaining af tho

Armitas · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I'm not going to argue much about RD but I will state that that 24k isn't an instant cast damage (most likely); it's the entire channel duration of damage.

Then again, if he was at ~10% health, then, yeah, it can hit pretty hard, as it should as an execute.

The entire channel still shouldn't be able to kill a guy in my opinion. >.< Heck, I don't think two full channels should.

Yeah, it's like there is just no point in the entire lower half of my health bar. It doesn't matter how much mitigation you have if they catch you under 50 you're done.

Minno · May 2016

_Chaos wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Jesus... this RD fight is never ending.

entertaining af tho

When pvp lags, the RD forum fight gets real heated.

Minno · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Jesus... this RD fight is never ending.

And should have ended when ZOS stated they won't be touching this skill.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.

frozywozy · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Jesus... this RD fight is never ending.

And should have ended when ZOS stated they won't be touching this skill.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.

True true, and my decision to reroll a magplar when I'm done with this DK has just been strengthen even more when I read that post from Gina. It doesn't mean that I agree with the decision and that I will support it though.

Minno · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Jesus... this RD fight is never ending.

And should have ended when ZOS stated they won't be touching this skill.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.

True true, and my decision to reroll a magplar when I'm done with this DK has just been strengthen even more when I read that post from Gina. It doesn't mean that I agree with the decision and that I will support it though.

It's a skill that is working as intended, according to the vision ZOS has for the Templar. At the moment, many players succumb to the ability but many do not. That tells me much of the player base has not reacted fast enough or updated their builds to account for its increased use.

Essentially it requires playstyle adjustments which might change pending how well DB launch is.

Ghost-Shot · May 2016

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

forumplars inc

You can't take away their radiant oppressionz, cuz their class is so weak. Templar is weak, it's always been weak. You can't kill anyone as a templar, we needs our oppressionz.

stahp itt

I never see any of the sane templars making this argument. If your reading comprehension is at such low levels that you aren't able to retain the almost bullet-point-like rundown explanations, then that actually starts to make a ton of sense for why you're all still so slow on the uptake.

Demonstrate actual broken numbers that cannot be achieved on any other glass cannon build and this "forumplar" will agree that the skill he almost never even uses should be rebalanced. I'm not defending the skill because we need it, I'm defending against the idiotic need for stam builds to feel like they should have zero counters and be able to take on insane numbers like 1.6-orsinium because of how broken their builds were. I'm defending against "nerf this because I'm able to cherry pick examples, ignore all of the other examples where it shows rational numbers, and don't ask too many questions about the guy that died, he was a full tank spec, I promise."

One month in and none of you have been able to demonstrate broken numbers against a reasonable build and mid-level of pvp competency. Not once. If you're actually capable of doing so, then do it. If you can't do it, then maybe it's because you've been dead wrong this whole time and accurately called out on your BS.

This thread below, meant to whine about jesus beam and show how 'broken' it is, showed RD as the last killing blow with an 8.3k CRIT, on an EXECUTE. It also showed 4 separate people each hitting him/her with RD for 1.5k to 2k EACH time. Surely such OP things need to be fixed! Surely you and the other stam builds aren't BSing all of us!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/264924/just-another-day-in-cyrodiil-right#latest

Go solo stamsorc for a day and come back telling me that jesus beam is fine... People will say I exaggerate, but believe me I dont: RD is responsible for about 80% of my deaths, because I rely on a bouncing HP bar, which is hardcountered by that abomination of a skill.

I am by no means invincible as a stamsorc, exactly 2 flash heals a minute - pot + rally, you can never keep up with the beam spams outnumbered. Outnumbered shouldnt mean insta death versus one skill. This skill renders any build not based on shields, cloak or flash heals void.

Please dont be so desperate to defend such an imbalanced skill, just because your class lacks in other departments.

In kena's other whine thread when we ran through the different classes, I made it a point to state that stam sorcs have no good defensive counter, and blamed Wrobel. As you advise, I would point out that stam sorc lacks in many departments, and that lacking leaves them with little innate counters to something like jesus beam, but that by itself doesn't mean jesus beam needs a nerf. It means you need significant buffs. Most of the complaints come from DKs, and that doesn't really fly (pun ) when they're such a strong counter to the super majority of magplar damage on every other front. Everyone feels bad for stam sorcs. I really do hope that bone shield helps, even if only a little. I stopped playing mine a long time ago - it was once my main, the first character I rolled. /sadface

But they can gap close and bash the templar! ...Oh wait... Not holding so tightly to your allegedly ever-present counterplay now, I see.

And Bone Shield won't change a thing. It'll just turn stam things getting pounded by radiant spam into pseudo magicka sorcs spamming shields for dear life as they try to either cross 30m to get to the templar or escape from his group's chase.

I'm glad that the more I preach this message, the more players with actual common sense come out of the woodwork. RD is the laughing stock of good players, the poster-skill of mindless zerglings, and the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next. Well, that and Dark Flare. Thank you @Rylana @PrinceFabious and all the others who've stepped up and commented here. I shall take the brunt of the public backlash if it gets this back in front of ZOS' attention.

As for Zheg and Joy, you've been amusing. We've had many laughs at your back and forth.

/bow2

"We've"? Laughing is good for the soul, so there's that at least. I've come to the conclusion that whoever "we" is, you share a collective IQ in the single digits. If you can't handle the base range of every other ranged attack, you shouldn't be playing a melee class because you lack to skill to do so. I don't know what to tell you Kena, if you, and "we" are dying to the skill as often as you claim, you're no where near as good as you all think you are. In fact, if you'd like, I'll start keeping a list of the random pugs I see in cyrodiil that are able to survive this skill without issue. I would also offer that there's a strong likelihood the crowd you think are "good players" are the same crowd that played stam when it was broken, abused shuffle, tapped shift right before dodge roll, and can't handle that they no longer have overpowered and/or broken mechanics to help them fluff their ego in a highlight video. I can think of far more players that handle jesus beam without any trouble whatsoever, so does that make them better than the 'we'? Food for thought.

On a side note, you know how I know you're completely out of touch with pvp? You're under the assumption that the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next is jesus beam, and not bombard. I think we should get a running list of all of the moronic things you've said thus far. I'll have to come back and add to this, there have been so many:
spambush does no damage on its own

you aren't vulnerable when casting or channeling a skill

less than half of the class archetypes have a counter to jesus beam

jesus beam is a death sentence as soon as you hit 40%

jesus beam should execute at 20% hp like impale, but still be a channel because I don't know what I'm talking about (to paraphrase)

I took cloak off my bar and then had trouble with jesus beam (to paraphrase again)

interrupting/bashing the jesus beam does nothing

RD can't be blocked

NB can't block meteors like the other classes

The damage is the problem. No wait, it's really the hp % at which it starts to execute. Actually, it's the range, yes - the range needs to be nerfed. (No one is buying this BS... EFF! what to do... what to do...) Ahem! It's the damage! The damage is broken! Here's a cherry picked screenshot of someone being ganked on their horse! This one screenshot demonstrates that I must be right! What's that? Video proof that I can actually defend? Uhhh... uhhh... why would you need that, can't you just trust that what I'm saying is right? It shouldn't matter that a month later the crowd that records every moment of their existence in cyrodiil in the hope that they'll have something to put into a highlight reel has absolutely no examples of jesus beam over-performing even though it's such a prevalent issue, right? Hurrr hurrr, with that said, look at all dem forumplars and 'zerglings' (pssst, guys let me know if there are any other buzz words I can drop to make myself look good and have you like me more).

This is how angry Zheg gets when you threaten his zurg radiant playstyle! You can tell because he wrote three essays instead of one.
*gets passed popcorn from Lyar*

Dude if people in your groups are spamming RD, you need a better group, that skill is stupid for group play because it shuts you down from doing things that are useful to your group. I've lost plenty of 1vX encounters to RD, it is what it is, but I have NEVER lost a group fight that was in anyway what so ever related to RD. Best case scenario it can help with focusing down guys like Vortex but a dark flare does that job way better.

zyk · May 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Dude if people in your groups are spamming RD, you need a better group, that skill is stupid for group play because it shuts you down from doing things that are useful to your group. I've lost plenty of 1vX encounters to RD, it is what it is, but I have NEVER lost a group fight that was in anyway what so ever related to RD. Best case scenario it can help with focusing down guys like Vortex but a dark flare does that job way better.

I used to play a fairly tanky build and I can assure you that some of the most well-known Templars in the game will spam RD proactively.

I think the concept of executes should be contentious. I like the balance other executes have in the sense that by the time damage scales, the max damage becomes superfluous in most situations. 25% of 25k health is 6250. Therefore, that is usually the practical impact of Impale. The value of the full 300% bonus is situational.

My main issue with RD is that it scales way too early. I can live with extra vulnerability at 25%, but I think it's unfair to penalize players merely because their health is @ 26-50% This window is too wide. This is exacerbated by the fact it can be used proactively, largely removing the element of timing.

Zheg · May 2016

zyk wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Dude if people in your groups are spamming RD, you need a better group, that skill is stupid for group play because it shuts you down from doing things that are useful to your group. I've lost plenty of 1vX encounters to RD, it is what it is, but I have NEVER lost a group fight that was in anyway what so ever related to RD. Best case scenario it can help with focusing down guys like Vortex but a dark flare does that job way better.

I used to play a fairly tanky build and I can assure you that some of the most well-known Templars in the game will spam RD proactively.

I think the concept of executes should be contentious. I like the balance other executes have in the sense that by the time damage scales, the max damage becomes superfluous in most situations. 25% of 25k health is 6250. Therefore, that is usually the practical impact of Impale. The value of the full 300% bonus is situational.

My main issue with RD is that it scales way too early. I can live with extra vulnerability at 25%, but I think it's unfair to penalize players merely because their health is @ 26-50% This window is too wide. This is exacerbated by the fact it can be used proactively, largely removing the element of timing.

Here's the thing. All of the nerfs people are demanding would be in effect while the skill is still a channel. This Templar would LOVE to have our clunky skills changed to not be so reliant on cast and channel times, but an execute at 25% that is a channel would instantly make it the worst one in the game. Think of how many NB use impale on their pvp bars, now ask yourself how many of those v3's would slot impale if it was a channel.

Remove the channel? Well, then you likely turn it into a projectile, and now magplar damage is the absolute easiest to counter in the game. Slot reflects and laugh at those DFs flying back in their face. Puncturing sweep is a unique skill, and has potential to be great, but is largely useless on competent players. One root, or someone wearing fasallas in the cluster, or not enough targets to compensate for the increased dmg you're taking while not blocking, and you're countered. Mist form change will help a lot, but right now if you put yourself in melee range on a magplar, you will greatly struggle to disengage in this permaroot meta.

Sorc execute has a delay allowing for burst, and they have curse, streak, and mines to help combat DK wings.

So many see people arguing with the idjits calling for nerfs in PART because they have a far better grasp of the Templar theme and realize making another skill useless just further hampers the class. There are probably a fair number of Templars (myself included) that would be fine if Jesus beam was removed, but then equal or greater buffs need to happen to replace what was lost. People are calling for nerfs with nothing to replace the loss, and calling for nerfs with poorly substantiated claims and reasoning. You know the phrase "pics or it didn't happen"? I find "solid video evidence or you're full of sh3t" to apply here. Still waiting for those vids.

Minno · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Dude if people in your groups are spamming RD, you need a better group, that skill is stupid for group play because it shuts you down from doing things that are useful to your group. I've lost plenty of 1vX encounters to RD, it is what it is, but I have NEVER lost a group fight that was in anyway what so ever related to RD. Best case scenario it can help with focusing down guys like Vortex but a dark flare does that job way better.

I used to play a fairly tanky build and I can assure you that some of the most well-known Templars in the game will spam RD proactively.

I think the concept of executes should be contentious. I like the balance other executes have in the sense that by the time damage scales, the max damage becomes superfluous in most situations. 25% of 25k health is 6250. Therefore, that is usually the practical impact of Impale. The value of the full 300% bonus is situational.

My main issue with RD is that it scales way too early. I can live with extra vulnerability at 25%, but I think it's unfair to penalize players merely because their health is @ 26-50% This window is too wide. This is exacerbated by the fact it can be used proactively, largely removing the element of timing.

Here's the thing. All of the nerfs people are demanding would be in effect while the skill is still a channel. This Templar would LOVE to have our clunky skills changed to not be so reliant on cast and channel times, but an execute at 25% that is a channel would instantly make it the worst one in the game. Think of how many NB use impale on their pvp bars, now ask yourself how many of those v3's would slot impale if it was a channel.

Remove the channel? Well, then you likely turn it into a projectile, and now magplar damage is the absolute easiest to counter in the game. Slot reflects and laugh at those DFs flying back in their face. Puncturing sweep is a unique skill, and has potential to be great, but is largely useless on competent players. One root, or someone wearing fasallas in the cluster, or not enough targets to compensate for the increased dmg you're taking while not blocking, and you're countered. Mist form change will help a lot, but right now if you put yourself in melee range on a magplar, you will greatly struggle to disengage in this permaroot meta.

Sorc execute has a delay allowing for burst, and they have curse, streak, and mines to help combat DK wings.

So many see people arguing with the idjits calling for nerfs in PART because they have a far better grasp of the Templar theme and realize making another skill useless just further hampers the class. There are probably a fair number of Templars (myself included) that would be fine if Jesus beam was removed, but then equal or greater buffs need to happen to replace what was lost. People are calling for nerfs with nothing to replace the loss, and calling for nerfs with poorly substantiated claims and reasoning. You know the phrase "pics or it didn't happen"? I find "solid video evidence or you're full of sh3t" to apply here. Still waiting for those vids.

As an added note, based on other executes, most classes have access to an additional passive that provides a unique or extra dmg component. The Templar lacks this for their passives and since no magicka based execute exists outside the class toolkit, Radiant Destruction must have this dmg output to compensate.

What further sets this skill apart is that:

- it's ranged
- belongs in a range tree with all spells at 28m
- does extra dmg based on your current magicka dmg and then scales based on enemy's health missing.
- is a channel that cannot be AC'd.

ZOS could do a better job in designing an execute for the Templar, but they should designate resources to recode a skill they think works fine.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

We should save some of our strength for Dark Brotherhood live release . I'm certain the balance Gatling Gun will ambush everyone from behind a covered wagon that weekend . Build pages blowing up with scattered troops screaming wat do we do ? Worse then the D Day Normandy beach landing . As per usual DLC ...

Acts · May 2016

10/10 good read

Darnathian · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I'm not going to argue much about RD but I will state that that 24k isn't an instant cast damage (most likely); it's the entire channel duration of damage.

Then again, if he was at ~10% health, then, yeah, it can hit pretty hard, as it should as an execute.

The entire channel still shouldn't be able to kill a guy in my opinion. >.< Heck, I don't think two full channels should.

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

forumplars inc

You can't take away their radiant oppressionz, cuz their class is so weak. Templar is weak, it's always been weak. You can't kill anyone as a templar, we needs our oppressionz.

stahp itt

I never see any of the sane templars making this argument. If your reading comprehension is at such low levels that you aren't able to retain the almost bullet-point-like rundown explanations, then that actually starts to make a ton of sense for why you're all still so slow on the uptake.

Demonstrate actual broken numbers that cannot be achieved on any other glass cannon build and this "forumplar" will agree that the skill he almost never even uses should be rebalanced. I'm not defending the skill because we need it, I'm defending against the idiotic need for stam builds to feel like they should have zero counters and be able to take on insane numbers like 1.6-orsinium because of how broken their builds were. I'm defending against "nerf this because I'm able to cherry pick examples, ignore all of the other examples where it shows rational numbers, and don't ask too many questions about the guy that died, he was a full tank spec, I promise."

One month in and none of you have been able to demonstrate broken numbers against a reasonable build and mid-level of pvp competency. Not once. If you're actually capable of doing so, then do it. If you can't do it, then maybe it's because you've been dead wrong this whole time and accurately called out on your BS.

This thread below, meant to whine about jesus beam and show how 'broken' it is, showed RD as the last killing blow with an 8.3k CRIT, on an EXECUTE. It also showed 4 separate people each hitting him/her with RD for 1.5k to 2k EACH time. Surely such OP things need to be fixed! Surely you and the other stam builds aren't BSing all of us!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/264924/just-another-day-in-cyrodiil-right#latest

Go solo stamsorc for a day and come back telling me that jesus beam is fine... People will say I exaggerate, but believe me I dont: RD is responsible for about 80% of my deaths, because I rely on a bouncing HP bar, which is hardcountered by that abomination of a skill.

I am by no means invincible as a stamsorc, exactly 2 flash heals a minute - pot + rally, you can never keep up with the beam spams outnumbered. Outnumbered shouldnt mean insta death versus one skill. This skill renders any build not based on shields, cloak or flash heals void.

Please dont be so desperate to defend such an imbalanced skill, just because your class lacks in other departments.

In kena's other whine thread when we ran through the different classes, I made it a point to state that stam sorcs have no good defensive counter, and blamed Wrobel. As you advise, I would point out that stam sorc lacks in many departments, and that lacking leaves them with little innate counters to something like jesus beam, but that by itself doesn't mean jesus beam needs a nerf. It means you need significant buffs. Most of the complaints come from DKs, and that doesn't really fly (pun ) when they're such a strong counter to the super majority of magplar damage on every other front. Everyone feels bad for stam sorcs. I really do hope that bone shield helps, even if only a little. I stopped playing mine a long time ago - it was once my main, the first character I rolled. /sadface

But they can gap close and bash the templar! ...Oh wait... Not holding so tightly to your allegedly ever-present counterplay now, I see.

And Bone Shield won't change a thing. It'll just turn stam things getting pounded by radiant spam into pseudo magicka sorcs spamming shields for dear life as they try to either cross 30m to get to the templar or escape from his group's chase.

I'm glad that the more I preach this message, the more players with actual common sense come out of the woodwork. RD is the laughing stock of good players, the poster-skill of mindless zerglings, and the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next. Well, that and Dark Flare. Thank you @Rylana @PrinceFabious and all the others who've stepped up and commented here. I shall take the brunt of the public backlash if it gets this back in front of ZOS' attention.

As for Zheg and Joy, you've been amusing. We've had many laughs at your back and forth.

/bow2

"We've"? Laughing is good for the soul, so there's that at least. I've come to the conclusion that whoever "we" is, you share a collective IQ in the single digits. If you can't handle the base range of every other ranged attack, you shouldn't be playing a melee class because you lack to skill to do so. I don't know what to tell you Kena, if you, and "we" are dying to the skill as often as you claim, you're no where near as good as you all think you are. In fact, if you'd like, I'll start keeping a list of the random pugs I see in cyrodiil that are able to survive this skill without issue. I would also offer that there's a strong likelihood the crowd you think are "good players" are the same crowd that played stam when it was broken, abused shuffle, tapped shift right before dodge roll, and can't handle that they no longer have overpowered and/or broken mechanics to help them fluff their ego in a highlight video. I can think of far more players that handle jesus beam without any trouble whatsoever, so does that make them better than the 'we'? Food for thought.

On a side note, you know how I know you're completely out of touch with pvp? You're under the assumption that the first skill to roll off the tongue of many a frustrated player when asked what needs nerfs next is jesus beam, and not bombard. I think we should get a running list of all of the moronic things you've said thus far. I'll have to come back and add to this, there have been so many:
spambush does no damage on its own

you aren't vulnerable when casting or channeling a skill

less than half of the class archetypes have a counter to jesus beam

jesus beam is a death sentence as soon as you hit 40%

jesus beam should execute at 20% hp like impale, but still be a channel because I don't know what I'm talking about (to paraphrase)

I took cloak off my bar and then had trouble with jesus beam (to paraphrase again)

interrupting/bashing the jesus beam does nothing

RD can't be blocked

NB can't block meteors like the other classes

The damage is the problem. No wait, it's really the hp % at which it starts to execute. Actually, it's the range, yes - the range needs to be nerfed. (No one is buying this BS... EFF! what to do... what to do...) Ahem! It's the damage! The damage is broken! Here's a cherry picked screenshot of someone being ganked on their horse! This one screenshot demonstrates that I must be right! What's that? Video proof that I can actually defend? Uhhh... uhhh... why would you need that, can't you just trust that what I'm saying is right? It shouldn't matter that a month later the crowd that records every moment of their existence in cyrodiil in the hope that they'll have something to put into a highlight reel has absolutely no examples of jesus beam over-performing even though it's such a prevalent issue, right? Hurrr hurrr, with that said, look at all dem forumplars and 'zerglings' (pssst, guys let me know if there are any other buzz words I can drop to make myself look good and have you like me more).

EDIT: skills should be balanced at the expense of 1v1, small group, and every other type of combat (paraphrasing)

EDIT: jesus beam being OP is brought up so frequently on the forums recently that it must mean it needs to be nerfed (*creates 3 threads within the span of 2 days before saying this*)

EDIT: most beamplars run a full pve dps spec in cyrodiil

We can keep insulting each other back and forth until the mods close the thread Kena, but I'm far better at it than you. Plus, I can do it just by quoting your own words, which should speak volumes.

Someone misinformed enough to say the above shouldn't even be part of the conversation, much less be the one 'preaching'.

frozywozy wrote: »

Lmfao @Zheg I really hope you don't take it as seriously as you sound. This is a video game. U're supposed to have fun and remove some stress from your hard day of work. Slow down abit.

LMAO. says the guy that cries when people tease your remarks. "zos they are making personal attacks against me as i blindly defend your failures. sniffle sniffle. ban them please!"

maxjapank · May 2016

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think it's sad that the forums don't allow for anyone to express their opinions anymore without getting flamed or insulted or talked to in a condescending manner. Not everyone is going to agree on things, and no one is right or wrong. There are points from both sides that can be pulled together into a, perhaps, future compromise, but NO ONE is the end-all opinion of the entire ESO population.

All I've seen is this plethora of the same people acting as though their opinions are exalted.

No one is a martyr here; we're all playing a game and discussing possible balances in this game.

BOTH sides of the argument have good points, and, my own personal opinions on said argument aside, I think both sides of the argument need to be considered if ANY change is going to happen to RD. That's the thing with balancing - it can't be done from an extreme angle either way.

The thing is that I don't see anything wrong with RD as is. It's just fine. So why should I compromise? All I keep seeing is the same poster starting thread after thread in an attempt to nerf something that doesn't need to be. It's sad. And frankly it angers me a bit. What a persistent .... the poster has become!

I didn't say there was or was not actually going to be a compromise to be had, and I didn't state my opinion on RD. I was just trying to make a point that not one person on these forums has an opinion that needs to be raised above everyone else's and exalted. Nor do I like this whole "I'M A MARTYR FOR BALANCE!" mentality that some people have taken on.

I actually don't have too many issues with RD. But if ZoS does end up touching it, I'd rather they not take the extremist point of view and do what is sensible and compromise on it. Because if they do what these threads keep asking, the skill will become worthless, and not just in PvP, but also PvE. Yes, when we want rebalancing of skills, everyone, we need to this about the whole game.
I don't care what your opinion is on PvE, I'm just stating a fact that it is also an aspect of this game that is played by many, many people. So if we're going to scream and kick and cry for nerfs, please consider the entirety of ESO and not just your own bubble.

You wrote "I think both sides of the argument need to be considered if ANY change is going to happen to RD." And I was stating that I see absolutely nothing wrong with Radiant as is. It's a channel and it snares the caster. And I meant no offense to you, but if you are chiming in that both sides need to be considered here, then I'm at a loss. Because the side that is asking for a nerf to RD hasn't provided any good reason why it should.

You are right about one thing and we saw that happen with Breath of Life. If one or two players keep bashing away at a skill and stir up a frenzy of players who are uneducated about Radiant, then there is a risk that it will be nerfed for no good reason. Personally, I will adjust just as I have with Breath. And I have more faith in ZoS to balance things fairly.

I'm not sure where you think I'm talking about pve, when this entire thread is talking about pvp. And I really detest people crying for nerfs because it spoils their 1vX...or they died so they have to blame the skill rather than their own performance. Oh..and please consider the entirety of the Templar class when talking about Radiant.

_Chaos · May 2016

Let's focus on the 3s channel that's only useful in outnumbered situations though

DisgracefulMind · May 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think it's sad that the forums don't allow for anyone to express their opinions anymore without getting flamed or insulted or talked to in a condescending manner. Not everyone is going to agree on things, and no one is right or wrong. There are points from both sides that can be pulled together into a, perhaps, future compromise, but NO ONE is the end-all opinion of the entire ESO population.

All I've seen is this plethora of the same people acting as though their opinions are exalted.

No one is a martyr here; we're all playing a game and discussing possible balances in this game.

BOTH sides of the argument have good points, and, my own personal opinions on said argument aside, I think both sides of the argument need to be considered if ANY change is going to happen to RD. That's the thing with balancing - it can't be done from an extreme angle either way.

The thing is that I don't see anything wrong with RD as is. It's just fine. So why should I compromise? All I keep seeing is the same poster starting thread after thread in an attempt to nerf something that doesn't need to be. It's sad. And frankly it angers me a bit. What a persistent .... the poster has become!

I didn't say there was or was not actually going to be a compromise to be had, and I didn't state my opinion on RD. I was just trying to make a point that not one person on these forums has an opinion that needs to be raised above everyone else's and exalted. Nor do I like this whole "I'M A MARTYR FOR BALANCE!" mentality that some people have taken on.

I actually don't have too many issues with RD. But if ZoS does end up touching it, I'd rather they not take the extremist point of view and do what is sensible and compromise on it. Because if they do what these threads keep asking, the skill will become worthless, and not just in PvP, but also PvE. Yes, when we want rebalancing of skills, everyone, we need to this about the whole game.
I don't care what your opinion is on PvE, I'm just stating a fact that it is also an aspect of this game that is played by many, many people. So if we're going to scream and kick and cry for nerfs, please consider the entirety of ESO and not just your own bubble.

You wrote "I think both sides of the argument need to be considered if ANY change is going to happen to RD." And I was stating that I see absolutely nothing wrong with Radiant as is. It's a channel and it snares the caster. And I meant no offense to you, but if you are chiming in that both sides need to be considered here, then I'm at a loss. Because the side that is asking for a nerf to RD hasn't provided any good reason why it should.

You are right about one thing and we saw that happen with Breath of Life. If one or two players keep bashing away at a skill and stir up a frenzy of players who are uneducated about Radiant, then there is a risk that it will be nerfed for no good reason. Personally, I will adjust just as I have with Breath. And I have more faith in ZoS to balance things fairly.

I'm not sure where you think I'm talking about pve, when this entire thread is talking about pvp. And I really detest people crying for nerfs because it spoils their 1vX...or they died so they have to blame the skill rather than their own performance. Oh..and please consider the entirety of the Templar class when talking about Radiant.

Actually I'm not really directly talking to you, I was talking to the thread and all its viewers. My first statement addressed that you misunderstood what I originally said, and then I moved on to address the rest of the thread, sorry you got that confused and thought I was attacking you, which I was not.

No need to start to target me like I'm a vicious nerf crying RD forum poster. I'm very far from that.

All I meant that if all of this nonsense leads to a change with the skill, then both sides need to be considered over just one if that were to happen. Keyword: if. I'm completely in agreeance with you, though, that the skill is fine as is and that there aren't any convincing arguments that have been stated to nerf it besides "it ruins my 1vX". What my concern would be, however, since we've seen it in the past, is that ZoS listens to the few people who are screaming for a nerf, and we see the skill destroyed. IF (note that I'm using the word "if" again) ZoS chooses to nerf the skill, then I would hope that they consider not just the side of the argument that wants to be nerfed, but also considers the side of the argument that doesn't want a nerf. IF (again, "if") the skill is nerfed, I don't want it to be completely ruined, which would happen if most of these forums posters had it their way.

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be. So please refrain from telling me that I need to consider the entire class, because not one thing I have said has stated that Templar is unbalanced in anyway.

This entire thread is specifically talking about RD and that it's "too OP needs nerf plz". This skill is used in both PvP and PvE. So, yes, PvE does matter as well when we're discussing nerfing a skill, as skills are used in both portions of the game, are they not?

I'm not sure why you got defensive against me as I've never cried for an RD nerf, and have actually been against nerfing it from the start. (:

maxjapank · May 2016

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be.

I see. My bad. And I agree with this the most. It really is in a good place. It's not too strong. It's not too weak. Just needs a realiable charge.

KenaPKK · May 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be.

I see. My bad. And I agree with this the most. It really is in a good place. It's not too strong. It's not too weak. Just needs a realiable charge.

It was competitive last patch before the latest buffs. Even templars were saying to just leave the class alone.

DisgracefulMind · May 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be.

I see. My bad. And I agree with this the most. It really is in a good place. It's not too strong. It's not too weak. Just needs a realiable charge.

I'm really hoping Toppling Charge is more polished for DB. Nothing is more frustrating then really REALLY needed to gap close and you can't T__T

maxjapank · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be.

I see. My bad. And I agree with this the most. It really is in a good place. It's not too strong. It's not too weak. Just needs a realiable charge.

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be.

I see. My bad. And I agree with this the most. It really is in a good place. It's not too strong. It's not too weak. Just needs a realiable charge.

It was competitive last patch before the latest buffs. Even templars were saying to just leave the class alone.

No. It really wasn't. Quit saying things that are untrue.

zyk · May 2016

_Chaos wrote: »

Let's focus on the 3s channel that's only useful in outnumbered situations though

There is nothing special about the coeff of Surprise Attack, nor the ability of the Nightblade to HA. NB is not the only class that can produce results like this.

Magicka Templars with similar glass cannon builds melt players @ 40% health.... from the top of keeps.

KenaPKK · May 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be.

I see. My bad. And I agree with this the most. It really is in a good place. It's not too strong. It's not too weak. Just needs a realiable charge.

maxjapank wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I play Templar pretty religiously, it's my favorite class. So I do consider the entirety of the Templar class, which is why I don't want to see it hurt in any way. I think the class is at a really competitive point right now, and it should be.

I see. My bad. And I agree with this the most. It really is in a good place. It's not too strong. It's not too weak. Just needs a realiable charge.

It was competitive last patch before the latest buffs. Even templars were saying to just leave the class alone.

No. It really wasn't. Quit saying things that are untrue.

I trust Blab's opinion over yours. People were performing fine last patch, and he said magplar was perfectly balanced last patch and that the TG buffs were unnecessary.