Greed, greeed, greed

DocFrost72 · April 2016

lathbury wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I think the disconnect here is real. Let me attempt to bridge the gap.

OP, ZoS made the decision ultimately, which means they have reasons to believe the changes were necessary. You have every right to disagree, but ultimately they did this. "Casuals" (which is a word with a negative connotation, BTW) are a scapegoat in this situation because we don't know why ZoS made the call. You can theorize but tbh that is *** all.

Yes hard content should exist, there is no question about it. But there is a limit on how far to go. In the words of Redbeard (the DC vet pledge character) "If you seek a greater challenge", disable your CP. I know, I know, "Why should I have to disable my well earned CP in order to get a challenge?" My answer: because you CAN disable your CP, while others can't just magically find the time to 'get good'. Who knows, maybe ZoS will implement an extra Key for those that disable CP spending in the future? That adds challenge without forcing it.

Hopefully this can help you understand why "casuals" such as myself did not ask for this, but aren't jumping up and down screaming and complaining that it is happening. How dare they take away YOUR challenge, I concur! After all, its all about entitlement.

the point here is there is normal mode and everyother dungeon for those who are unable or unwilling to learn these 3. what 4 man content is there for those of us who want a challenge?

You missed my entire argument. Literally flew over your head. What I am saying is that you come off as condescending to a playerbase that by your own estimates is the majority (not sure how true that is) because they may be new, or have a busy schedule, or a great deal of other things. Did you even read my suggestion for CPless runs for more reward, or did you skip after about three lines?

Like I said, share. Compromise. How's that for "entitlement"

Destruent · April 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I think the disconnect here is real. Let me attempt to bridge the gap.

OP, ZoS made the decision ultimately, which means they have reasons to believe the changes were necessary. You have every right to disagree, but ultimately they did this. "Casuals" (which is a word with a negative connotation, BTW) are a scapegoat in this situation because we don't know why ZoS made the call. You can theorize but tbh that is *** all.

Yes hard content should exist, there is no question about it. But there is a limit on how far to go. In the words of Redbeard (the DC vet pledge character) "If you seek a greater challenge", disable your CP. I know, I know, "Why should I have to disable my well earned CP in order to get a challenge?" My answer: because you CAN disable your CP, while others can't just magically find the time to 'get good'. Who knows, maybe ZoS will implement an extra Key for those that disable CP spending in the future? That adds challenge without forcing it.

Hopefully this can help you understand why "casuals" such as myself did not ask for this, but aren't jumping up and down screaming and complaining that it is happening. How dare they take away YOUR challenge, I concur! After all, its all about entitlement.

the point here is there is normal mode and everyother dungeon for those who are unable or unwilling to learn these 3. what 4 man content is there for those of us who want a challenge?

You missed my entire argument. Literally flew over your head. What I am saying is that you come off as condescending to a playerbase that by your own estimates is the majority (not sure how true that is) because they may be new, or have a busy schedule, or a great deal of other things. Did you even read my suggestion for CPless runs for more reward, or did you skip after about three lines?

Like I said, share. Compromise. How's that for "entitlement"

You are also not forced to do harder dungeons if you can't beat them. But sure, disabling CP is an option...but this will disable character progression aswell which is a bad thing imo.

Browiseth · April 2016

I'm very on and off about this topic.
Part of me supports you, OP - there does need to be that pinnacle of difficulty content for minmaxers and the elite to flex their gamer muscles at. But at the same time, 99.9999% of the "difficult" content in this game is so for stupid, unfair reasons.

And it's been this way for a long time, and it seems most of us have "gotten used to it" or shy a blind eye to it...which is depressing

lathbury · April 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I think the disconnect here is real. Let me attempt to bridge the gap.

OP, ZoS made the decision ultimately, which means they have reasons to believe the changes were necessary. You have every right to disagree, but ultimately they did this. "Casuals" (which is a word with a negative connotation, BTW) are a scapegoat in this situation because we don't know why ZoS made the call. You can theorize but tbh that is *** all.

Yes hard content should exist, there is no question about it. But there is a limit on how far to go. In the words of Redbeard (the DC vet pledge character) "If you seek a greater challenge", disable your CP. I know, I know, "Why should I have to disable my well earned CP in order to get a challenge?" My answer: because you CAN disable your CP, while others can't just magically find the time to 'get good'. Who knows, maybe ZoS will implement an extra Key for those that disable CP spending in the future? That adds challenge without forcing it.

Hopefully this can help you understand why "casuals" such as myself did not ask for this, but aren't jumping up and down screaming and complaining that it is happening. How dare they take away YOUR challenge, I concur! After all, its all about entitlement.

the point here is there is normal mode and everyother dungeon for those who are unable or unwilling to learn these 3. what 4 man content is there for those of us who want a challenge?

You missed my entire argument. Literally flew over your head. What I am saying is that you come off as condescending to a playerbase that by your own estimates is the majority (not sure how true that is) because they may be new, or have a busy schedule, or a great deal of other things. Did you even read my suggestion for CPless runs for more reward, or did you skip after about three lines?

Like I said, share. Compromise. How's that for "entitlement"

how majority by my own estimates? I did not miss your argument you suggest diasabling cp for those of us who want a challenge. when in fact vet dungeons are meant to be a challenge especially these or do you think they drop twice the number of keys because they are intended to be of similar difficulty?
you even said harder content should exist this is it for 4 man content there is nothing and no news on when new stuff is coming and when it does you can guarantee those who cant do that will ask for it to be nerfed.
you say add challenge with out forcing it no one is forcing anything currently if you want a challenge vet mode is there if you want to see the story relax etc normal is there plus all the other in game content outside of 2 trials and vma.

hydrocynus · April 2016

I don't understand. Do these people who can't finish these dungeons think that by making this easier so they can get a hat that makes their sustain fall through the floor (as an example), they will then be able to do other content better?

hydrocynus · April 2016

And I must stick by what @lathbury said he had offered forumers many times to take them through this content for which some have taken him up on.

Most decent guilds have people like this. If you have none in your guild leave it and join another.

Wifeaggro13 · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

No, this is not a thread about developers. Its about the playerbase, some of its vocal part.
There's many topics about nerfing vICP and vWGT dungeons and there's plenty of people saying that "if only 10% of the playerbase can finish X, then X shoudl be nerfed so every player can finish it".
But from this point of view, why those 10% cant have 0,000001% (or so) of the content. I've never seen raiders begging Zos to convert everything in the game to raids and pvpers begging to disable all pve. Why casuals are so entitled? I mean, I dont have anything against people who are not interested in minmaxing etc, to each their own. But why do they deny others the right to play how they want (=at least with minimal challenge)? Can someone explain this? Are they really that greedy and arrogant or they just dont understand how mmos work?
Cause seriously, this "communist" approach is so toxic for the game.

It is the death Rattle of the MMO part of this game. VWGT and ICP is about the CP , they are not hard sure ICP has some challenge for sure but at the end of the day if you are maxed CP have V16 crafted sets they become extremely easy. the real problem is most of the PVE community has moved on due to hitting the shallow bottom of Zenimax's PVE end game. the only thing that is required for groups to complete it is to have commitment to dying and have 1 or two member in the group that know the fights.

The real issue for this game is the Developers have given up on developing an MMO and are now focusing on churning out easily made DLC's to bilk a few hundred thousand people out of 15 bucks every qrtr. It is completely in reverse of what they had said the development cycle would be 18 months ago. In short they are making just a cheesy online sky rim now. its too bad VR dungeons and Trials were the crown jewel of the group PVE end game. But i imagine there was diffculty with making that stuff balanced , that is where the Stamina vs magica and Heavy vs light armor shows the broken part of the game glaringly.

Zerok · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

No, this is not a thread about developers. Its about the playerbase, some of its vocal part.
There's many topics about nerfing vICP and vWGT dungeons and there's plenty of people saying that "if only 10% of the playerbase can finish X, then X shoudl be nerfed so every player can finish it".
But from this point of view, why those 10% cant have 0,000001% (or so) of the content. I've never seen raiders begging Zos to convert everything in the game to raids and pvpers begging to disable all pve. Why casuals are so entitled? I mean, I dont have anything against people who are not interested in minmaxing etc, to each their own. But why do they deny others the right to play how they want (=at least with minimal challenge)? Can someone explain this? Are they really that greedy and arrogant or they just dont understand how mmos work?
Cause seriously, this "communist" approach is so toxic for the game.

Why would a developer keep some content impossible for 90% of its player base?

90% of players means 90% of income (or so). It makes no sense for them to side with the 10%.

Yes, it's the "communist" approach to make more money as a capitalist business.

emily3989 · April 2016

You know, I cannot see this end game progression getting anything but worse with vet rank removals.

When a character turns Vet ranks, they at least have some understanding now that some groups are looking for V16, etc.

Once this is removed and once they hit 50 and are now an "end game" character, you are going to have all kinds of scrubs thinking they should automatically be doing all end game activities.

I really do only see this getting worse, unless of course they created some kind of entry system for specific zones, like WOW does with ilevels - so say you cannot even get into vMOL unless you have 450cp kind of a concept. (not promoting this, just saying).

Jesh · April 2016

Right now there is a catch 22 in the game: "we can't do vWGT with you because you've never done vWGT". Same with vCoA and vICP.
I got stuck in this for a VERY very long time. Even from guildies (maybe especially from guildies). That's a problem.
When eventually, by coincidence, someone who I'd run a gold pledge with, who saw I could DPS like a big boy, asked me to join his group for vWGT because they were a man down and we cleared it (on my first go, definitely not theirs though) without too many problems (apart from disconnects). (Kena Helm on first clear: the RNGesus favored me that day!) But PUGing those 3 dungeons is a mess, a real big one. You wont get a group, or the only group you'll get will likely be inept, so your chances of getting out of the catch 22 are very slim. When an experienced player does appear in the PUG, often their patience is extremely low in those 3 dungeons (and I often feel the same now sadly).
I got myself out of the catch 22 loop, but it was really down to pure chance, and I still don't run them regularly because I know it can be a hassle. I like these dungeons, they are tough, and WGT and ICP are also very long, and an MMO has to offer really tough challenges. My hope is that with the removal of VR maybe there will be a CP scaling system that still allows 501 CP l33t players to run a very hard vICP.
I don't know how CP scaling is going to work, but I would like to think that it will still offer a strong challenge for players at cap.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Zerok wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

No, this is not a thread about developers. Its about the playerbase, some of its vocal part.
There's many topics about nerfing vICP and vWGT dungeons and there's plenty of people saying that "if only 10% of the playerbase can finish X, then X shoudl be nerfed so every player can finish it".
But from this point of view, why those 10% cant have 0,000001% (or so) of the content. I've never seen raiders begging Zos to convert everything in the game to raids and pvpers begging to disable all pve. Why casuals are so entitled? I mean, I dont have anything against people who are not interested in minmaxing etc, to each their own. But why do they deny others the right to play how they want (=at least with minimal challenge)? Can someone explain this? Are they really that greedy and arrogant or they just dont understand how mmos work?
Cause seriously, this "communist" approach is so toxic for the game.

Why would a developer keep some content impossible for 90% of its player base?

90% of players means 90% of income (or so). It makes no sense for them to side with the 10%.

Yes, it's the "communist" approach to make more money as a capitalist business.

You're completely missing the point here.
90% have more than 90% of the game. This is fair and understandable. Also, I doubt that 90% of the players are instant graitification gamers, palying casually doesnt meant that you want everything handed to you. I also cant play all day etc.
I understand the nerfs to main questline bosses since being stuck on them would block progress in the story. But in IC dungeons there is a normal mode that drops items and silver keys, and offers exactly the same quest.
What's unfair in having optional harder content? This new dlc wont offer other hard dungeons so basically Zos just removes the last 4-man challenge in game. This is unacceptable.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

Right now there is a catch 22 in the game: "we can't do vWGT with you because you've never done vWGT". Same with vCoA and vICP.
I got stuck in this for a VERY very long time. Even from guildies (maybe especially from guildies). That's a problem.
When eventually, by coincidence, someone who I'd run a gold pledge with, who saw I could DPS like a big boy, asked me to join his group for vWGT because they were a man down and we cleared it (on my first go, definitely not theirs though) without too many problems (apart from disconnects). (Kena Helm on first clear: the RNGesus favored me that day!) But PUGing those 3 dungeons is a mess, a real big one. You wont get a group, or the only group you'll get will likely be inept, so your chances of getting out of the catch 22 are very slim. When an experienced player does appear in the PUG, often their patience is extremely low in those 3 dungeons (and I often feel the same now sadly).
I got myself out of the catch 22 loop, but it was really down to pure chance, and I still don't run them regularly because I know it can be a hassle. I like these dungeons, they are tough, and WGT and ICP are also very long, and an MMO has to offer really tough challenges. My hope is that with the removal of VR maybe there will be a CP scaling system that still allows 501 CP l33t players to run a very hard vICP.
I don't know how CP scaling is going to work, but I would like to think that it will still offer a strong challenge for players at cap.

I said this already, but: WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO PUG FOR THESE DUNGEONS?
When you can just find a guild and play with them. Good guild, I mean.
Those groups who are asking for achievements might be unexperienced as well, or fake their achievements (link someone else's I assume? Once we invited a tank from /z who claimed he did it 100 times and linked achieves etc and halfway through the dungeon he confessed that he lied to us. It was obvious since he didnt know the mechanics).

Jesh · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jesh wrote: »

I said this already, but: WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO PUG FOR THESE DUNGEONS?
When you can just find a guild and play with them.
Those groups who are asking for achievements might be unexperienced as well, or fake their achievements (link someone else's I assume? Once we invited a tank from /z who claimed he did it 100 times and linked achieves etc and halfway through the dungeon he confessed that he lied to us. It was obvious since he didnt know the mechanics).

Why shouldn't I be able to LFG for these dungeons?
I have 2 guilds that I run them with, but I still cant always find people.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jesh wrote: »

I said this already, but: WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO PUG FOR THESE DUNGEONS?
When you can just find a guild and play with them.
Those groups who are asking for achievements might be unexperienced as well, or fake their achievements (link someone else's I assume? Once we invited a tank from /z who claimed he did it 100 times and linked achieves etc and halfway through the dungeon he confessed that he lied to us. It was obvious since he didnt know the mechanics).

Why shouldn't I be able to LFG for these dungeons?
I have 2 guilds that I run them with, but I still cant always find people.

For the same reason as with any other dungeon - youre not guaranteed to find a capable group even for easier vet dungeons like Elden Hollow.
That doesnt mean that Elden Hollow should be nerfed, right?

Eleusian · April 2016

I was more bothered by the helm give away than this. These dungeons may be .001% of the total content ,but they are 100% of the 4 man group end game ATM. I would really just like some new Dungeons to run

Jesh · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

For the same reason as with any other dungeon - youre not guaranteed to find a capable group even for easier vet dungeons like Elden Hollow.

You aren't guaranteed, no, but you are nearly guaranteed to be unable to finish the Big Three with the LFG tool.

I don't necessarily disagree with you BTW. I just don't necessarily agree that its greed. Is it not greedy that certain players guard certain content for themselves by refusing to let people play with them without the achievement (and stick them into a catch 22)?
If its challenging content that is the problem, then I'm absolutely with you and really hope that CP scaling still offers a really tough challenge at cap. If its about locking people off from content, which seems to be happening right now, then I'm not sure I agree.
Personally I think scaling is both the problem and solution. You CAN scale the 3 tough dungeons down, but no one ever does.
On one of my alts, while leveling I ran ICP at level 12 with a bunch of very very new players, and it was a blast, they loved it, I loved it, and from that experience they have already learned some of the mechanics.

Destruent · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

For the same reason as with any other dungeon - youre not guaranteed to find a capable group even for easier vet dungeons like Elden Hollow.

You aren't guaranteed, no, but you are nearly guaranteed to be unable to finish the Big Three with the LFG tool.

I don't necessarily disagree with you BTW. I just don't necessarily agree that its greed. Is it not greedy that certain players guard certain content for themselves by refusing to let people play with them without the achievement (and stick them into a catch 22)?
If its challenging content that is the problem, then I'm absolutely with you and really hope that CP scaling still offers a really tough challenge at cap. If its about locking people off from content, which seems to be happening right now, then I'm not sure I agree.
Personally I think scaling is both the problem and solution. You CAN scale the 3 tough dungeons down, but no one ever does.
On one of my alts, while leveling I ran ICP at level 12 with a bunch of very very new players, and it was a blast, they loved it, I loved it, and from that experience they have already learned some of the mechanics.

So you just have a problem with experienced players who don't share their experience with you. Maybe you should search for another guild/ingamefriends?

Jesh · April 2016

Destruent wrote: »

So you just have a problem with experienced players who don't share their experience with you. Maybe you should search for another guild/ingamefriends?

That's definitely a part of it I think, yes. And I see another thread right now in the forums about people finding it hard to find others to PVE with.
But I still think it is important to share the experience with newer players, and that is probably not happening enough for the Big Three.

Destruent · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

So you just have a problem with experienced players who don't share their experience with you. Maybe you should search for another guild/ingamefriends?

That's definitely a part of it I think, yes. And I see another thread right now in the forums about people finding it hard to find others to PVE with.
But I still think it is important to share the experience with newer players, and that is probably not happening enough for the Big Three.

Nothing to disagree here, but it's no reason to nerf the content.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

These dungeons are actually pugable, but you'll be rolling a dice

I wouldn't mind ZOS nerfing all the current content, if we got 2 new dungeons to beat - however I doubt we will. They haven't mentioned anything new for endgamers.

Out of all this content in ESO, why are people so obsessed with completing these two dungeons btw.? I mean if you play casually then go ahead and do the normal mode, or the many other dungeons that are more suitable for less dedicated players. Getting the loot in v16 instead of v15 will not change a bit, if you don't dedicate yourself to the game anyways.

Jesh · April 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Nothing to disagree here, but it's no reason to nerf the content.

I think this should be solved through scaling, because I also think that the catch 22 problem is exacerbated by the fact that you won't find a group to run the vet Big Three at less than v16. So you get to v16, you want to run them, and there is a real gulf that emerges between players.

IF there is some smart CP scaling (and I have absolutely no idea what kind of scaling they will use) there is a real opportunity for players to learn the dungeon as they work their way up the CP curve towards the very challenging dungeons at cap.
THAT in my opinion is the solution.

Destruent · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Nothing to disagree here, but it's no reason to nerf the content.

I think this should be solved through scaling, because I also think that the catch 22 problem is exacerbated by the fact that you won't find a group to run the vet Big Three at less than v16. So you get to v16, you want to run them, and there is a real gulf that emerges between players.

IF there is some smart CP scaling (and I have absolutely no idea what kind of scaling they will use) there is a real opportunity for players to learn the dungeon as they work their way up the CP curve towards the very challenging dungeons at cap.
THAT in my opinion is the solution.

How far do you want to scale people/dungeons? Sure...CP make a big difference, my V1 Stamblade/DK/Templar (now CP-capped) are nearly as powerfull as my magicka-templar when they introduced CP. When scaled up they are far more powerfull, pretty comparable to our toons when we first beat vWGT/vICP. Scaling works fine, but maybe the players should improve a bit?

Shunravi · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Nothing to disagree here, but it's no reason to nerf the content.

I think this should be solved through scaling, because I also think that the catch 22 problem is exacerbated by the fact that you won't find a group to run the vet Big Three at less than v16. So you get to v16, you want to run them, and there is a real gulf that emerges between players.

IF there is some smart CP scaling (and I have absolutely no idea what kind of scaling they will use) there is a real opportunity for players to learn the dungeon as they work their way up the CP curve towards the very challenging dungeons at cap.
THAT in my opinion is the solution.

Scaling would be nice.

Incentives to bring newbies would work too. Heck i wonder if achievement based rewards could work.... Like say someone doesnt have an achieve for that instance, someone with them can get a bonus for picking them up... Idk, an idea i guess.

Sharakor · April 2016

The mentality behind these people that demand nerfs for everything is exactly the mentality of bernie sanders supporters. "IF YOU HAVE I WILL TOO! AND I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR IT AS HARD AS YOU DID! GIVE IT TO ME FOR FREE NOW!"

Jesh · April 2016

Destruent wrote: »

How far do you want to scale people/dungeons? Sure...CP make a big difference, my V1 Stamblade/DK/Templar (now CP-capped) are nearly as powerfull as my magicka-templar when they introduced CP. When scaled up they are far more powerfull, pretty comparable to our toons when we first beat vWGT/vICP. Scaling works fine, but maybe the players should improve a bit?

Players should improve, and part of that improvement is learning the dungeons, and the best way to do that would be a better scaling before endgame.
For example, maybe the standard scale that you get when using the LFG tool could maybe be a little easier, but if you and I group up with endgame 501 CP toons and guildies, then the dungeon can be balls to the wall, sweaty palms, challenging and fun.
My hope is that with VR removal a lot more people will be running the vet Big Three before they are really 'endgame' and hopefully, with proper scaling, that will allow them to learn how to run those dungeons, and improve their skill.
Just a thought.

idk · April 2016

It's a vocal minority of casual players screaming for nerfs. Most casuals understand one needs to gear properly and work at becoming a better player and they eventually complete content like vWGT.

It's those that do not want to be bothered with learning he mechanics and becoming a stronger player that call for the nerfs.

And any nerfs to that content would be disappointing.

Jesh · April 2016

Sharakor wrote: »

The mentality behind these people that demand nerfs for everything is exactly the mentality of bernie sanders supporters. "IF YOU HAVE I WILL TOO! AND I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR IT AS HARD AS YOU DID! GIVE IT TO ME FOR FREE NOW!"

I worked hard to be able to complete the tougher dungeons, but I think introducing players to these dungeons before endgame would be a good way to do it and help them learn.
I also think your troll comment applied more to the Monster Set Vendor than to this discussion.

Destruent · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

How far do you want to scale people/dungeons? Sure...CP make a big difference, my V1 Stamblade/DK/Templar (now CP-capped) are nearly as powerfull as my magicka-templar when they introduced CP. When scaled up they are far more powerfull, pretty comparable to our toons when we first beat vWGT/vICP. Scaling works fine, but maybe the players should improve a bit?

Players should improve, and part of that improvement is learning the dungeons, and the best way to do that would be a better scaling before endgame.
For example, maybe the standard scale that you get when using the LFG tool could maybe be a little easier, but if you and I group up with endgame 501 CP toons and guildies, then the dungeon can be balls to the wall, sweaty palms, challenging and fun.
My hope is that with VR removal a lot more people will be running the vet Big Three before they are really 'endgame' and hopefully, with proper scaling, that will allow them to learn how to run those dungeons, and improve their skill.
Just a thought.

I think it won't solve the problem. CP/gear will make you play better...you just can get more out of your character in terms of tankiness/dps/hps. you have to learn the mechanic of the game and the dungeon. To get better the game/experienced players can help you, but the game doesn't help you with an easy-mode.
As I said...scaling is fine, you can complete those dungeons with all levels of player if they know how to play. i did vWGT with a random group of: V1 healer (random), V12 (or so) tank (random) V6 DD (me) and V16 DD (guildmate) and both randoms didn't know the dungeon but it worked. We just explained the mechanics shortly and after some tries we beat those bosses in there. Trust me...scaling doesn't help...it just helps you to not improve your playstyle.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

Sharakor wrote: »

The mentality behind these people that demand nerfs for everything is exactly the mentality of bernie sanders supporters. "IF YOU HAVE I WILL TOO! AND I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR IT AS HARD AS YOU DID! GIVE IT TO ME FOR FREE NOW!"

I worked hard to be able to complete the tougher dungeons, but I think introducing players to these dungeons before endgame would be a good way to do it and help them learn.
I also think your troll comment applied more to the Monster Set Vendor than to this discussion.

For this, we just need more in-game tutorials and incentive for players to help newbies.
For example, people were mentioned mentoring system... How about rewarding players for doing dungeons with first-timers (who dont have the achievement on their account)? Or something like this.

Jesh · April 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It's a vocal minority of casual players screaming for nerfs. Most casuals understand one needs to gear properly and work at becoming a better player and they eventually complete content like vWGT.

It's those that do not want to be bothered with learning he mechanics and becoming a stronger player that call for the nerfs.

And any nerfs to that content would be disappointing.

I think this is correct. And I think that there is a problem with no one scaling these dungeons down so that they can learn these mechanics before they reach 'endgame'. I would hope that better scaling with VR removal might help with that (although I'm not entirely confident that such nuance will be used...).