Greed, greeed, greed

ArchMikem

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

Svalinn

Shunravi wrote: »

Im sure plenty of casual family people dont want to see nerfs either... Just better access when they do get on.

Did you lose the part where i explained what i would do INNSTEAD of nerfing adding that content could even be made more difficult? :P

LadyNalcarya

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

So youre paying for a game for you, and were paying for the game for you... Interesting.

Shunravi

I remeber the gearing qq back at the launch of vCoH. And how people kept going on and on about how it was only doable in bis gear.

So many players made videos doing it naked and weaponless to show that the dungeons dificulty was more in its mechanics than your ability to kill or defend or even heal.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Where are these dungeons? I have never stepped foot in one. Is that where the red-guards feel you up and the bosmer steal your stuff? What do I get from them? Can I solo them?

Shunravi

Svalinn wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Im sure plenty of casual family people dont want to see nerfs either... Just better access when they do get on.

Did you lose the part where i explained what i would do INNSTEAD of nerfing adding that content could even be made more difficult? :P

Didnt miss it. I just felt like elaborating one specific point.

ArchMikem

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

So youre paying for a game for you, and were paying for the game for you... Interesting.

We all paid for the same content that we all should be able to make full use of. If it's at the state where only 10% of us (you) can actually enjoy it, while the rest of us have trouble, then there's something wrong here, and it's not us.

AddictionX

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@ AddictionX
Im sorry but after you other posts, which were just a bunch of personal attacks and memes, Im not gonna read this.

(You seem to be a fan of these, so...)

@ Korah_Eaglecry
Ever heard of figurative sense? I can also pick a random word in any of your post and reply to it.

Jesh wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

For this, we just need more in-game tutorials and incentive for players to help newbies.
For example, people were mentioned mentoring system... How about rewarding players for doing dungeons with first-timers (who dont have the achievement on their account)? Or something like this.

That's one solution, that sounds good. See, the solution to greed might be helping and sharing! (*barf*)

Actually yes. Without any sarcasm, mechanics that encourage players to care and share work wonders. Orsinium world boss dailies for example, or daily random dungeon dailies...
Why not to extend it to helping newbies?
From what I understand, the main issue is alienating of the players based on their achievements and goals. This is not a game issue, this is a community issue. And it can be solved by encouraging more friendly playstyle.
Thanks for those who wrote non-trolling and -baiting posts, by the way.

Awww you knew I was about to roast you're post here you go...

LadyNalcarya

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

So youre paying for a game for you, and were paying for the game for you... Interesting.

We all paid for the same content that we all should be able to make full use of. If it's at the state where only 10% of us (you) can actually enjoy it, while the rest of us have trouble, then there's something wrong here, and it's not us.

It would be a problem if the majority of the content would be made too hard for average player. This is not the case. Theres only a few pieces of the content that are above average level of difficulty: vMA, maybe SO, maybe hardmode of HRC, vMoL (the hardest one) and these dungeons.
But this decision of Zos removes the only pieces of 4man endgame content in this game. Those dungeons have been nerfed multiple times already, and in a really harsh way. Now people who like the fact that those dungeons were harder than others, and also paid for the game, are screwed. Dont you see a problem here?

Shunravi

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

So youre paying for a game for you, and were paying for the game for you... Interesting.

We all paid for the same content that we all should be able to make full use of. If it's at the state where only 10% of us (you) can actually enjoy it, while the rest of us have trouble, then there's something wrong here, and it's not us.

You have the same ability to access it as everyone else. You simply choose not to make the effort to do so.

code65536

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

So youre paying for a game for you, and were paying for the game for you... Interesting.

We all paid for the same content that we all should be able to make full use of. If it's at the state where only 10% of us (you) can actually enjoy it, while the rest of us have trouble, then there's something wrong here, and it's not us.

There are many parts of the game that you paid for that you probably haven't enjoyed. Have you been crowned Emperor in Cyrodiil?

And the content is there for you to access. We're not denying you anything. It's there, and it's somewhat hard. It's there to challenge you to become better. I couldn't clear it the first time I tried it. Or the second. Or the third. But that was okay, because it was a goal for me to work towards in the game. You're not being denied anything by the difficulty of the content--you're only denying yourself the opportunity to progress as a player by refusing to meet this challenge.

And finally, in the case of ICP/WGT, there are normal versions with the exact same story, scenery, and enemies, except that it is substantially easier. You can even do the normal version when ICP/WGT comes up on the "vet" pledge rotation. So you already have an easy version of this content.

So, no, we're not denying you anything. You're denying yourself the opportunity to overcome a challenge, and you are seeking to deny others this same opportunity. And that is selfish.

LadyNalcarya

AddictionX wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@ AddictionX
Im sorry but after you other posts, which were just a bunch of personal attacks and memes, Im not gonna read this.

(You seem to be a fan of these, so...)

@ Korah_Eaglecry
Ever heard of figurative sense? I can also pick a random word in any of your post and reply to it.

Jesh wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

For this, we just need more in-game tutorials and incentive for players to help newbies.
For example, people were mentioned mentoring system... How about rewarding players for doing dungeons with first-timers (who dont have the achievement on their account)? Or something like this.

That's one solution, that sounds good. See, the solution to greed might be helping and sharing! (*barf*)

Actually yes. Without any sarcasm, mechanics that encourage players to care and share work wonders. Orsinium world boss dailies for example, or daily random dungeon dailies...
Why not to extend it to helping newbies?
From what I understand, the main issue is alienating of the players based on their achievements and goals. This is not a game issue, this is a community issue. And it can be solved by encouraging more friendly playstyle.
Thanks for those who wrote non-trolling and -baiting posts, by the way.

Awww you knew I was about to roast you're post here you go...

Added you to ignore, dear.

Destyran

MidnightBlue wrote: »

I'm not for nerfing content, because I can complete the dungeons fine. Maybe if elitists would stop being *** and help new players with content and accept players that have a DPS time of a few seconds above a minute in trials then maybe people wouldn't call for nerfs.

Maybe if they made the drops actually tangible we wouldnt have to run the dungeon 4163839281615 for a peice of gear so we could actually have time to take you through and teach im for it my group arent tho they want to do as many runs as quick as possible and get the gear they want.

LadyNalcarya

Destyran wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

I'm not for nerfing content, because I can complete the dungeons fine. Maybe if elitists would stop being *** and help new players with content and accept players that have a DPS time of a few seconds above a minute in trials then maybe people wouldn't call for nerfs.

Maybe if they made the drops actually tangible we wouldnt have to run the dungeon 4163839281615 for a peice of gear so we could actually have time to take you through and teach im for it my group arent tho they want to do as many runs as quick as possible and get the gear they want.

This is also a good point. If theyre trying to cater to mature audience (with jobs, families etc), then why make things so grindy? Nerfs wont make them any less grindy.

Destruent

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

So youre paying for a game for you, and were paying for the game for you... Interesting.

We all paid for the same content that we all should be able to make full use of. If it's at the state where only 10% of us (you) can actually enjoy it, while the rest of us have trouble, then there's something wrong here, and it's not us.

I don't really enjoy all those easy dungeons we have atm. But i pay for the game...see the problem? In the end everyone will have content he likes and some he dislikes. But everyone should have content he likes ingame. Atm there are only raids for me i really enjoy...

PhatGrimReaper

#NerftheCAREBEARS

Makkir

I am cool with locking PvE rewards behind PvE content.

Read that again.

But I am not cool with locking PvP gear behind PvE content.

Svalinn

Makkir wrote: »

I am cool with locking PvE rewards behind PvE content.

Read that again.

But I am not cool with locking PvP gear behind PvE content.

Same way as i don't like PvE stuff to be locked into a PvP content... and this just proves that the idea of making cyrodill and IC a PvPvE area it's just bad xD

Moonshadow66

Shunravi wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Because we paid the same money you did.

So youre paying for a game for you, and were paying for the game for you... Interesting.

We all paid for the same content that we all should be able to make full use of. If it's at the state where only 10% of us (you) can actually enjoy it, while the rest of us have trouble, then there's something wrong here, and it's not us.

You have the same ability to access it as everyone else. You simply choose not to make the effort to do so.

This, I just thought the same.

I for myself have chosen to play the standard PvE content solo. Do I get a TON of content for my money? YES.
I also have chosen to not (or just rarely) PvP or run dungeons much. Do I miss a lot of content? YES.
But, that's the way I've chosen, and I'm ok with that.

I don't understand players who always want more for zero effort.
Also, while I'm not always satisfied what ZOS does or does not, I'm SURE that they had a reason when they set the difficulty to "incredibly high" for some content. After all, there ARE players who can accomplish this kind of content, and they're having a lot of fun, of what I read or hear. I'm not one of them, but I still think they should be able to test out their skills to the top end where they can say "I've done it!".
For me personally, I had these moments everytime I read the following achievements onscreen: Hero of the Ebonheart Pact - Hero of the Daggerfall Covenant - Hero of the Aldmeri Dominion.. with 8 characters, and 6x I even got the Tamriel Hero! "I've done it, again!"^^ I wouldn't have wanted to get this content nerfed to the ground because more skilled players would have complained (it WAS nerfed, but not because of them), and I don't want "their" content to get nerfed either, why would I want to ruin their fun?!

So everyone who thinks that some difficult content needs a nerf: calm down, there's enough content for everyone's taste.

Surgee

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Its tiring to read whine thread after whine thread.

Think of it this way - if no one would complain about anything, nothing would get improved.

newtinmpls

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Why casuals are so entitled?

Please stop with the labeling. You did really well when you said it's not the PvPers or the PvEers - and frankly it's not the "casuals" either.

I'm a casual.

I've played since about two months after PC launch, I sub two accounts and run about 15 characters, most of whom are NOT vet.

I've never done trials, Maelstrom, or White Gold Tower.

And I don't care.

Much of the "such and so percent can do it well" are the such and so percent that have been playing for so long that they just know the system really really well. As a slow/tiny example, I've (finally) done non-vet Fungal Grotto enough times that I can anticipate the "next" thing.

If I ever get to the point where I've tried Maelstrom (or whatever) that many times, I'll likely have much less trouble with with it.

The "nerf NOW" crowd need to learn patience. Unfortunately that's not a game issue, it's a life issue.

ArchMikem

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

But this decision of Zos removes the only pieces of 4man endgame content in this game. Those dungeons have been nerfed multiple times already, and in a really harsh way. Now people who like the fact that those dungeons were harder than others, and also paid for the game, are screwed. Dont you see a problem here?

How are they screwed? I honestly don't get it, what do you get out of doing a dungeon that's especially difficult to finish? You're just gonna get some armor piece, maybe a weapon you don't want, and then do it over again. And again. Like the other people here that say they've done them hundreds of times for loot drops. The logical thing that could be done is to lessen the difficulty so the whole process is less strenuous.

Or maybe I just don't belong in the "MMO Crowd". It's too bad though, Elder Scrolls being such a great universe and game but this being made as an MMORPG has brought in a playerbase that's way out of my comfort zone. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "Casuals". Games were originally meant as relaxing entertainment, but there are many people here, not you personally, that just love to *** on the little guy.

Shunravi

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

But this decision of Zos removes the only pieces of 4man endgame content in this game. Those dungeons have been nerfed multiple times already, and in a really harsh way. Now people who like the fact that those dungeons were harder than others, and also paid for the game, are screwed. Dont you see a problem here?

How are they screwed? I honestly don't get it, what do you get out of doing a dungeon that's especially difficult to finish? You're just gonna get some armor piece, maybe a weapon you don't want, and then do it over again. And again. Like the other people here that say they've done them hundreds of times for loot drops. The logical thing that could be done is to lessen the difficulty so the whole process is less strenuous.

Or maybe I just don't belong in the "MMO Crowd". It's too bad though, Elder Scrolls being such a great universe and game but this being made as an MMORPG has brought in a playerbase that's way out of my comfort zone. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "Casuals". Games were originally meant as relaxing entertainment, but there are many people here, not you personally, that just love to *** on the little guy.

Concidering that we have been discussing a 10% completion etc, i would say, its technically you who **** on the little guy.

Prabooo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Are they really that greedy and arrogant or they just dont understand how mmos work?
Cause seriously, this "communist" approach is so toxic for the game.

Both. And yes, communist approach is toxic not only for the game but for everything.

ArchMikem

Shunravi wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

But this decision of Zos removes the only pieces of 4man endgame content in this game. Those dungeons have been nerfed multiple times already, and in a really harsh way. Now people who like the fact that those dungeons were harder than others, and also paid for the game, are screwed. Dont you see a problem here?

How are they screwed? I honestly don't get it, what do you get out of doing a dungeon that's especially difficult to finish? You're just gonna get some armor piece, maybe a weapon you don't want, and then do it over again. And again. Like the other people here that say they've done them hundreds of times for loot drops. The logical thing that could be done is to lessen the difficulty so the whole process is less strenuous.

Or maybe I just don't belong in the "MMO Crowd". It's too bad though, Elder Scrolls being such a great universe and game but this being made as an MMORPG has brought in a playerbase that's way out of my comfort zone. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "Casuals". Games were originally meant as relaxing entertainment, but there are many people here, not you personally, that just love to *** on the little guy.

Concidering that we have been discussing a 10% completion etc, i would say, its technically you who **** on the little guy.

So then I'm shitting on myself? Gross.

Shunravi

ArchMikem wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

But this decision of Zos removes the only pieces of 4man endgame content in this game. Those dungeons have been nerfed multiple times already, and in a really harsh way. Now people who like the fact that those dungeons were harder than others, and also paid for the game, are screwed. Dont you see a problem here?

How are they screwed? I honestly don't get it, what do you get out of doing a dungeon that's especially difficult to finish? You're just gonna get some armor piece, maybe a weapon you don't want, and then do it over again. And again. Like the other people here that say they've done them hundreds of times for loot drops. The logical thing that could be done is to lessen the difficulty so the whole process is less strenuous.

Or maybe I just don't belong in the "MMO Crowd". It's too bad though, Elder Scrolls being such a great universe and game but this being made as an MMORPG has brought in a playerbase that's way out of my comfort zone. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "Casuals". Games were originally meant as relaxing entertainment, but there are many people here, not you personally, that just love to *** on the little guy.

Concidering that we have been discussing a 10% completion etc, i would say, its technically you who **** on the little guy.

So then I'm shitting on myself? Gross.

well, if you enjoy being self depreciating...

Svalinn

ArchMikem wrote: »

So then I'm shitting on myself? Gross.

You silly Namira follower ^^

Korah_Eaglecry

It really comes down to "I need to feel special about what Ive accomplished in a digital environment and if that vast majority can do it too, Im suddenly not special anymore."

I really wish it was about this being especially difficult and thats a thrill. But how many times have people swore up and down on these forums that these very Dungeons werent actually difficult and that anyone could finish it if they set out to learn it. And here we are, we dont know what the nerf is going to be. And already people are freaking out because ZOS made a statement about adjusting the content. Suddenly its actually difficult and god forbid just anyone can go in there and complete it. Which is it all mighty 1%s? Is it not difficult when youre enjoying a good ole 'L2P noob' bashing and its only difficult when ZOS decides its time to make some changes?

Shunravi

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

It really comes down to "I need to feel special about what Ive accomplished in a digital environment and if that vast majority can do it too, Im suddenly not special anymore."

I really wish it was about this being especially difficult and thats a thrill. But how many times have people swore up and down on these forums that these very Dungeons werent actually difficult and that anyone could finish it if they set out to learn it. And here we are, we dont know what the nerf is going to be. And already people are freaking out because ZOS made a statement about adjusting the content. Suddenly its actually difficult and god forbid just anyone can go in there and complete it. Which is it all mighty 1%s? Is it not difficult when youre enjoying a good ole 'L2P noob' bashing and its only difficult when ZOS decides its time to make some changes?

Well, thats not really it for me but whatever. if pople want to feel special in their digital playground I wont begrudge them.

I really do enjoy the experience of a harder dungeon. And you really can learn it. It takes patience.

Its the last bastion of semblance to anything difficult. Thats why its a big deal. Im personally of the opinion that they are just readjusting for vet rank removal. But whatever.

At least 'elite bashing' is alive and well no?

Volkodav

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Oh,no more about greed.It's their game and they can do what they want.They have that right.If we dont like it we can either quit,or just ignore it all.
Oh,and your bit about "casuals" is way off.We "PvErs",(not casual at all),arent entitled,we were just there first and there are a whole lot more of us.Our numbers pay their checks.

Because greed is real.
The thing is, not all pvers want a 100% fail-proof content. And there should be a diversity since playerbase of this game is not homogenous. If the majority of players are pvers, should we remove pvp as well?
You'e right, casual players are the majority of the playerbase. But 1)not all casual players are entitled and 2)some casual players like some challenge and 3)"hardcore" players also pay for the game. And you cant use casual players as your shield, since you dont know if the majority actually cares about those dungeons and wants everything to be nerfed.

I never said a word about everything being fail proof,or wanting no PvPers ingame.Not at all. And you are right.I dont know what trhe majority of players care about.As with all other people here who have their day,they too often speak out saying they know w hat others want.None of us really do. I dont know what "entitlement" you mean,a I have none at all.
My remark was just because I was tired of all the "ZOS is greedy" stuff posted here.
Anyone can get a bit annoyed at times,and make a comment about it.
Having said that,I still think people should get over their ire at ZOS making money on anything.That's what they are in business for,..making money.Not to just give it all for free. People dont want to pay subs,they dont want to have a crown store,they dont like this,they dont like that,etc.
It just gets under my skin at times.Others can bi-tch,why not me too?
An official apology is what you want?
Fine,.you got it.