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Cloak Nerf Vs Sorc Shield Spammer
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Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The cloak change sounds really wonky, I agree. I also agree that shields need to be looked at; Healing Ward and Harness Magicka should be changed because they are too good in conjunction.0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DeanTheCat wrote: »You know, with all the suggestions here about shieldbreaker etc, I might actually put it on next patch... I'm already forced to play a bow build now due to various changes gutting my old build. Shieldbreaker isn't that big of a change.
May actually be an excellent idea, considering Magma Shell, Igneous Shields and the sheer amount of Annulment spam due to a rise in Magicka builds.
While sorcs whine like it's harvest time at the vinyard over shield breaker, it's quite effective at killing them when they run (and by run I mean teleport through the air over and over).
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DeanTheCat✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »DeanTheCat wrote: »You know, with all the suggestions here about shieldbreaker etc, I might actually put it on next patch... I'm already forced to play a bow build now due to various changes gutting my old build. Shieldbreaker isn't that big of a change.
May actually be an excellent idea, considering Magma Shell, Igneous Shields and the sheer amount of Annulment spam due to a rise in Magicka builds.
While sorcs whine like it's harvest time at the vinyard over shield breaker, it's quite effective at killing them when they run (and by run I mean teleport through the air over and over).
With DoTs now working on shields + Poison now being boosted by mighty... Poison Injection + Lethal Arrow + Shieldbreaker + Shattering Blows anyone?
Dean the Cat
Somewhat Insane Puddicat
EU-PC Megaserver; Ebonheart Pact, Alliance Rank 34
This one hails from far Singapore, excuse this one for his high pings. He also apologizes for any formatting/spelling errors, as he tends to answer using a mobile device.
Insanity is the price of Knowledge. Herma-Mora and Sheogorath, this one bows before thee.
This one does not advocate for any class to be nerfed. There are far deeper underlying issues then a simple "Class Imbalance". The Champion System is the problem. Not classes.
Please read this before creating yet another nerf thread.
My guides:0 -
aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭As a sourc i would be happy with the ability to sheild stack being removed. This could screw with pve quite a lot though. I don't tend to sheild stack pvp but do hardness magika/hardned ward stack in pve.
There was already the nerf to sheilds in a way with dots going through sheilds as per above post. I fought both a mage blade and nightblade on the pts who could power through my sheild/health and kill me in like 2 seconds if i wasn't cc''ing them and forcing them to play defensively.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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It´s not going to happen because the sorc class has a total of five skills that all entirely scale with only magica (in case you did not know that). Too much work reworking all of those.
You´re basically proposing breaking 4 skills in order to fix one that you feel is overperforming.
So you'd be forced to choose between survival or max dps like you know, everyone else.
The horror.
@Bossdonut you good sir have no clue what you´re talking about.
Every build currently has their defense scaling on their offense. Nobody has to choose.
The problem is for sorcs that their defense is not scaling with their offense (or rather for daedric summoning their offense is not scaling with offensive stats) because for sorcs a whole skilline (apart from curse) only scales with max resource and does not take into account spelldmg. So yeah in that regard sorc has a skilline that is worse than any other skillline in the game mechanic wise.
If you were to change defense to be based on health you could still access offense on every other skilline with wpn/spelldmg. For deadric summoning all offense is directly tied to magica which competes with health on every slot (spelldmg/weapondmg does not). It would destroy a skillline hardly seeing any use already.Edited by Derra on February 10, 2016 9:07AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Bossdonut✭✭✭✭✭
It´s not going to happen because the sorc class has a total of five skills that all entirely scale with only magica (in case you did not know that). Too much work reworking all of those.
You´re basically proposing breaking 4 skills in order to fix one that you feel is overperforming.
So you'd be forced to choose between survival or max dps like you know, everyone else.
The horror.
@Bossdonut you good sir have no clue what you´re talking about.
Every build currently has their defense scaling on their offense. Nobody has to choose.
The problem is for sorcs that their defense is not scaling with their offense (or rather for daedric summoning their offense is not scaling with offensive stats) because for sorcs a whole skilline (apart from curse) only scales with max resource and does not take into account spelldmg. So yeah in that regard sorc has a skilline that is worse than any other skillline in the game mechanic wise.
If you were to change defense to be based on health you could still access offense on every other skilline with wpn/spelldmg. For deadric summoning all offense is directly tied to magica which competes with health on every slot (spelldmg/weapondmg does not). It would destroy a skillline hardly seeing any use already.
Didn't realize I had a stamina based cloak. My bad. Original statement stands.2 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭DeanTheCat wrote: »You know, with all the suggestions here about shieldbreaker etc, I might actually put it on next patch... I'm already forced to play a bow build now due to various changes gutting my old build. Shieldbreaker isn't that big of a change.
May actually be an excellent idea, considering Magma Shell, Igneous Shields and the sheer amount of Annulment spam due to a rise in Magicka builds.
To top that off, I tested and the Shieldbreaker proc is effected by the new +25% damage to players with shields. LOL
Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It´s not going to happen because the sorc class has a total of five skills that all entirely scale with only magica (in case you did not know that). Too much work reworking all of those.
You´re basically proposing breaking 4 skills in order to fix one that you feel is overperforming.
So you'd be forced to choose between survival or max dps like you know, everyone else.
The horror.
@Bossdonut you good sir have no clue what you´re talking about.
Every build currently has their defense scaling on their offense. Nobody has to choose.
The problem is for sorcs that their defense is not scaling with their offense (or rather for daedric summoning their offense is not scaling with offensive stats) because for sorcs a whole skilline (apart from curse) only scales with max resource and does not take into account spelldmg. So yeah in that regard sorc has a skilline that is worse than any other skillline in the game mechanic wise.
If you were to change defense to be based on health you could still access offense on every other skilline with wpn/spelldmg. For deadric summoning all offense is directly tied to magica which competes with health on every slot (spelldmg/weapondmg does not). It would destroy a skillline hardly seeing any use already.
Didn't realize I had a stamina based cloak. My bad. Original statement stands.
And i don´t have a magica based dodgeroll. Checkmate.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How does the scissors feel about the rock being OP? I bet paper will just tell scissors it's a l2p issue.
Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
Bossdonut✭✭✭✭✭
It´s not going to happen because the sorc class has a total of five skills that all entirely scale with only magica (in case you did not know that). Too much work reworking all of those.
You´re basically proposing breaking 4 skills in order to fix one that you feel is overperforming.
So you'd be forced to choose between survival or max dps like you know, everyone else.
The horror.
@Bossdonut you good sir have no clue what you´re talking about.
Every build currently has their defense scaling on their offense. Nobody has to choose.
The problem is for sorcs that their defense is not scaling with their offense (or rather for daedric summoning their offense is not scaling with offensive stats) because for sorcs a whole skilline (apart from curse) only scales with max resource and does not take into account spelldmg. So yeah in that regard sorc has a skilline that is worse than any other skillline in the game mechanic wise.
If you were to change defense to be based on health you could still access offense on every other skilline with wpn/spelldmg. For deadric summoning all offense is directly tied to magica which competes with health on every slot (spelldmg/weapondmg does not). It would destroy a skillline hardly seeing any use already.
Didn't realize I had a stamina based cloak. My bad. Original statement stands.
Checkmate.
False. You have a teleport you can spam 9 times (which stuns people and pulls people out of stealth). In addition to the fact that we are talking about skills and not roll dodging. Make sure you stretch before you reach so far next time.Edited by Bossdonut on February 11, 2016 12:38AM2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Or maybe other classes should be more balanced like sorcs. All this rage comes from sheer envy.mr_wazzabi wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
Most players can cc and break thedodgehopper_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
To be fair here, roll dodging does have a progressively increasing cost for usage, armor/sr mitigation can be overcome with out of control penetration (thus why generally speaking heavy armor is not that good), and its very easy to pop an unstoppable potion with very long durations to deal with cc for large portions of time. I do think it is a bad system when magic can be scaled to near max and provides excessive mitigation and damage output. This really bites into the tank role in a stupid way, and the developers should know better. They need to make shields able to be critted, and get rid of the battle spirit effects to shields, as well as make all shields scale off health. In this way someone of the Tank role is not overly penalized for having to pump up their health #'s, while not doing excessive amounts of damage. The Sorc could still crit surge off of shields, which would give them back mitigation to make up for the loss in shield cap (for magic builds). It is a win win, and really to me this is a no brainer. In terms of balance there is a lot wrong with what is going on right now, and while skill is definitely part of that, I find it preposterous the level of hostility you have toward people who see obvious flaws in the system. Over time quite a few builds and playstyles have been made obsolete because of fundamental changes to the game. Yes we should adapt, but the developers should also balance.
Exactly. Sorcs should not be dps tanks. You either hit very hard or can take many hits. If you can do both, your class is broken
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dalsinthus wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
Ward with Harness magicka with a low health Healing ward is certainly going to be over 20k. My point is not to nerf sorc shield it's to nerf shield stacking.
The bandwagon is strong with the sorc fanbois.
Nothing is stopping you from using those. At least you have access to shields. We don't exactly get an invis spell.
This is very close to just telling people to drop stamina entirely and play a magic build. Yes, healing ward and harness magika are available to everyone, but they only really work well for builds that are heavily invested in magic and are willing to slot a restoration staff for one of their two bars. Otherwise these universally available shields are going to be trivial compared to a magic build.
Okay, well you don't see me switching to Wrecking Blow, or Steel Tornado, or Vigor, no matter how effective they are. What's your point exactly?
I have no idea what build you run, nor do I care. My point is that saying everyone has access to shields is bogus as these shields are largely worthless for stamina builds.
Additionally, everyone has access to invisibility via potions.
Then don't run a stamina build, or ask for better stamina abilities. Crying about shields because you can't use them as well as another class is childish.
Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on February 11, 2016 2:11PM:trollin:0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Or maybe other classes should be more balanced like sorcs. All this rage comes from sheer envy.mr_wazzabi wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
Most players can cc and break thedodgehopper_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
To be fair here, roll dodging does have a progressively increasing cost for usage, armor/sr mitigation can be overcome with out of control penetration (thus why generally speaking heavy armor is not that good), and its very easy to pop an unstoppable potion with very long durations to deal with cc for large portions of time. I do think it is a bad system when magic can be scaled to near max and provides excessive mitigation and damage output. This really bites into the tank role in a stupid way, and the developers should know better. They need to make shields able to be critted, and get rid of the battle spirit effects to shields, as well as make all shields scale off health. In this way someone of the Tank role is not overly penalized for having to pump up their health #'s, while not doing excessive amounts of damage. The Sorc could still crit surge off of shields, which would give them back mitigation to make up for the loss in shield cap (for magic builds). It is a win win, and really to me this is a no brainer. In terms of balance there is a lot wrong with what is going on right now, and while skill is definitely part of that, I find it preposterous the level of hostility you have toward people who see obvious flaws in the system. Over time quite a few builds and playstyles have been made obsolete because of fundamental changes to the game. Yes we should adapt, but the developers should also balance.
Exactly. Sorcs should not be dps tanks. You either hit very hard or can take many hits. If you can do both, your class is broken
It's not balance when your class can fullfill 2 roles at once.
Watch the youtube vid i posted. 4 magicka sorc dps taking down ICP 2nd boss in 1 min with full lifebars 90% of the fight.
Everyone stop making tanks healers and non mag sorc dps. Shield stacking magicka sorc is all you need to win the game pve and pvp. Also look at vet maelstrom arena. Magicka sorcs were the first to beat it and also consistently pump out the bighest scores and fastest clears.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Well your approach is to take away a mechanic that works well for a certain class or build because you can't do it. [snip] Instead of the constant complaining about shields and since you refuse to adjust the way you play, maybe you should just ask for a stamina equivalent. [snip]Dalsinthus wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
Ward with Harness magicka with a low health Healing ward is certainly going to be over 20k. My point is not to nerf sorc shield it's to nerf shield stacking.
The bandwagon is strong with the sorc fanbois.
Nothing is stopping you from using those. At least you have access to shields. We don't exactly get an invis spell.
This is very close to just telling people to drop stamina entirely and play a magic build. Yes, healing ward and harness magika are available to everyone, but they only really work well for builds that are heavily invested in magic and are willing to slot a restoration staff for one of their two bars. Otherwise these universally available shields are going to be trivial.
Edited to add: everyone does have easy access to invisibility with a much longer duration than cloak via potions.
Moderator edit - post edited for insulting and rude remarksEdited by ZOS_MollyH on February 11, 2016 6:43PM:trollin:0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DeanTheCat wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »DeanTheCat wrote: »You know, with all the suggestions here about shieldbreaker etc, I might actually put it on next patch... I'm already forced to play a bow build now due to various changes gutting my old build. Shieldbreaker isn't that big of a change.
May actually be an excellent idea, considering Magma Shell, Igneous Shields and the sheer amount of Annulment spam due to a rise in Magicka builds.
While sorcs whine like it's harvest time at the vinyard over shield breaker, it's quite effective at killing them when they run (and by run I mean teleport through the air over and over).
With DoTs now working on shields + Poison now being boosted by mighty... Poison Injection + Lethal Arrow + Shieldbreaker + Shattering Blows anyone?
As long as you use a bow you can pressure just with light attacks and if they are dumb kill them.
It's pretty much impossible to properly shield break with melee attacks as they tend to miss so much you start wondering how it's possible.
I did see someone's logging of shield breaker versus hunding's rage and how they "proved" that hundings was better etc. As someone that uses shield breaker (and has since like day 2 of IC) it's far more effective than many realize. It can be used from full health to zero bad sorcs (and that's many of them as they only have the same bag of tricks that 90% of them are loaded for) or more importantly as that much needed execute when they are low and or trying to flee.0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Or maybe other classes should be more balanced like sorcs. All this rage comes from sheer envy.mr_wazzabi wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
Most players can cc and break thedodgehopper_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
To be fair here, roll dodging does have a progressively increasing cost for usage, armor/sr mitigation can be overcome with out of control penetration (thus why generally speaking heavy armor is not that good), and its very easy to pop an unstoppable potion with very long durations to deal with cc for large portions of time. I do think it is a bad system when magic can be scaled to near max and provides excessive mitigation and damage output. This really bites into the tank role in a stupid way, and the developers should know better. They need to make shields able to be critted, and get rid of the battle spirit effects to shields, as well as make all shields scale off health. In this way someone of the Tank role is not overly penalized for having to pump up their health #'s, while not doing excessive amounts of damage. The Sorc could still crit surge off of shields, which would give them back mitigation to make up for the loss in shield cap (for magic builds). It is a win win, and really to me this is a no brainer. In terms of balance there is a lot wrong with what is going on right now, and while skill is definitely part of that, I find it preposterous the level of hostility you have toward people who see obvious flaws in the system. Over time quite a few builds and playstyles have been made obsolete because of fundamental changes to the game. Yes we should adapt, but the developers should also balance.
Exactly. Sorcs should not be dps tanks. You either hit very hard or can take many hits. If you can do both, your class is broken
It's not balance when your class can fullfill 2 roles at once.
Watch the youtube vid i posted. 4 magicka sorc dps taking down ICP 2nd boss in 1 min with full lifebars 90% of the fight.
Everyone stop making tanks healers and non mag sorc dps. Shield stacking magicka sorc is all you need to win the game pve and pvp. Also look at vet maelstrom arena. Magicka sorcs were the first to beat it and also consistently pump out the bighest scores and fastest clears.
Get a better build? I don't know what to tell you. If I was doing something that wasn't working I wouldn't take to the forums demanding they change the game to suit my needs. I would adjust what I was doing. [snip]
Moderator edit - post edited for baitingEdited by ZOS_MollyH on February 11, 2016 6:44PM:trollin:0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »
https://youtu.be/AszE5GuCTHI
Hardest boss of the hardest vet duneon burned down in 1 min by 4 magicka sorc dps.
No healer, no tank needed. The shields make you a tank.
Nice. Though to me that video shows how strong 3 Overload spammers are more than shields.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
CloseLine✭✭Sorc can tank in PvP as good as a DK thanks to shield stacking. It can burst as good as a NB and has a better escape than NB's. It can't heal as good as Templar but still, other than as a healer why should anyone roll anything other than a sorc?0
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cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Sorc can tank in PvP as good as a DK thanks to shield stacking. It can burst as good as a NB and has a better escape than NB's. It can't heal as good as Templar but still, other than as a healer why should anyone roll anything other than a sorc?
You mean that escape which drains your magicka in a few uses and is easily negated by gap closers?R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It´s not going to happen because the sorc class has a total of five skills that all entirely scale with only magica (in case you did not know that). Too much work reworking all of those.
You´re basically proposing breaking 4 skills in order to fix one that you feel is overperforming.
So you'd be forced to choose between survival or max dps like you know, everyone else.
The horror.
@Bossdonut you good sir have no clue what you´re talking about.
Every build currently has their defense scaling on their offense. Nobody has to choose.
The problem is for sorcs that their defense is not scaling with their offense (or rather for daedric summoning their offense is not scaling with offensive stats) because for sorcs a whole skilline (apart from curse) only scales with max resource and does not take into account spelldmg. So yeah in that regard sorc has a skilline that is worse than any other skillline in the game mechanic wise.
If you were to change defense to be based on health you could still access offense on every other skilline with wpn/spelldmg. For deadric summoning all offense is directly tied to magica which competes with health on every slot (spelldmg/weapondmg does not). It would destroy a skillline hardly seeing any use already.
Didn't realize I had a stamina based cloak. My bad. Original statement stands.
Checkmate.
False. You have a teleport you can spam 9 times (which stuns people and pulls people out of stealth). In addition to the fact that we are talking about skills and not roll dodging. Make sure you stretch before you reach so far next time.
Nowhere have i been talking strictly about skills - i was talking about defense and offense (and dodgeroll happens to be the best defense in the game - you don´t even need a skillslot for it - which you can spam more with a bigger stamina pool).
Just admit defeat. You´ll feel better.Edited by Derra on February 11, 2016 3:21PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Alorier✭✭✭✭Although I agree that something needs to happen with shield stacking you can't just take harness Magicka or healing ward away from Sorcs , they are intitled to use these skills or are we now going to say that Dk's can't use shuffle it's a skill line they have opened so should be able to use it , maybe increase the casting costs to penalise them for doing it0
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Although I agree that something needs to happen with shield stacking you can't just take harness Magicka or healing ward away from Sorcs , they are intitled to use these skills or are we now going to say that Dk's can't use shuffle it's a skill line they have opened so should be able to use it , maybe increase the casting costs to penalise them for doing it
You only have to nerf harness magica. It´s badly designed as it returns between 4000 and 5000 magica with a cost of ~2000 to 2600. No skill with so much defensive potential should be resource positive.<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Didn't realize I had a stamina based cloak. My bad. Original statement stands.
Because I should be able to remain permanently invisible on top of dodge roll, block, vigor, rally, shuffle, medium armor resistance, impen, and battle spirit mitigation.
Lol. This guy.
Those big bad sorcs with their one viable defensive mechanic are coming to get me =(
Edited by Xeven on February 11, 2016 3:38PM1 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »These concepts are lost on these guys. They honestly think our shields make us invincible. It's hilarious.
So if I catch a sorc off guard, get him caught in situation where he keeps using Hardend Ward-- does that not make him a baddie?0 -
Stikato✭✭✭✭✭Rolling my eyes at the mag sorcs saying to attack their stamina. Takes about 1200 stam regen to break free every time you are CC'd. Reapply shields, burst. Break CC. Repeat.
Right now, stamblades and mag sorcs are both OP, but somewhat balanced between the two. Clearly, one is going down, and the other is going up.
But ITT: Mag sorcs feeling like god mode is coming back, and don't want anything to get in the way.Mordimus - Stam Sorc2 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Well your approach is to take away a mechanic that works well for a certain class or build because you can't do it. Do you hear yourselves? Utterly ridiculous, and a complete waste of time. An intelligent person would have recognized that. Instead of the constant complaining about shields and since you refuse to adjust the way you play, maybe you should just ask for a stamina equivalent. I'm fairly certain if you cry hard enough they will eventually cave and give you a 50k stamina shield. The other option of course is to stop the constant b****ing and adapt.Dalsinthus wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
Ward with Harness magicka with a low health Healing ward is certainly going to be over 20k. My point is not to nerf sorc shield it's to nerf shield stacking.
The bandwagon is strong with the sorc fanbois.
Nothing is stopping you from using those. At least you have access to shields. We don't exactly get an invis spell.
This is very close to just telling people to drop stamina entirely and play a magic build. Yes, healing ward and harness magika are available to everyone, but they only really work well for builds that are heavily invested in magic and are willing to slot a restoration staff for one of their two bars. Otherwise these universally available shields are going to be trivial.
Edited to add: everyone does have easy access to invisibility with a much longer duration than cloak via potions.
If they did that you would be on here crying about the stam shield being OP, you wouldn't be able to Burts 50k in 1 second and since you couldn't that would give them free reign on your health bar.
That's the thing about stacking shields. It takes a second to have 20k shields that can't be crit (free mitigation) and minimal magicka.
Even if they increased the magicka cost so that stacking was very inefficient it would be more balanced.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB1 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Or maybe other classes should be more balanced like sorcs. All this rage comes from sheer envy.mr_wazzabi wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
Most players can cc and break thedodgehopper_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down.
They do, its called any CC
I'll amend his statement:
If anyone can magelight to stop a nb from cloaking away then everyone should also be able to cast an ability to stop sorcs from reapplying 3 shields after you get their shield down with a 5 second lockout that is NOT CC breakable.
This is such a pointless debate. If they include an ability that prevents us from casting shields then they need to include one that prevents you from casting blur, roll dodging, and takes away all of your armor and spell mitigation. See now how ridiculous you are? If you are so terrible that you can't CC and break a 12k ward or find a way to drain our stamina, then it doesn't matter what they do to our class, you're still going to be a terrible player.
To be fair here, roll dodging does have a progressively increasing cost for usage, armor/sr mitigation can be overcome with out of control penetration (thus why generally speaking heavy armor is not that good), and its very easy to pop an unstoppable potion with very long durations to deal with cc for large portions of time. I do think it is a bad system when magic can be scaled to near max and provides excessive mitigation and damage output. This really bites into the tank role in a stupid way, and the developers should know better. They need to make shields able to be critted, and get rid of the battle spirit effects to shields, as well as make all shields scale off health. In this way someone of the Tank role is not overly penalized for having to pump up their health #'s, while not doing excessive amounts of damage. The Sorc could still crit surge off of shields, which would give them back mitigation to make up for the loss in shield cap (for magic builds). It is a win win, and really to me this is a no brainer. In terms of balance there is a lot wrong with what is going on right now, and while skill is definitely part of that, I find it preposterous the level of hostility you have toward people who see obvious flaws in the system. Over time quite a few builds and playstyles have been made obsolete because of fundamental changes to the game. Yes we should adapt, but the developers should also balance.
Exactly. Sorcs should not be dps tanks. You either hit very hard or can take many hits. If you can do both, your class is broken
If you think every other class is incapable of LA tank/dpsing you are sorely mistaken. I've effectively heal/tanked and dps/tanked every dungeon on every class with LA. The only things I haven't tanked on a LA dps build are the trials.
This concept isn't new. People have been doing this on every class since launch.Edited by Autolycus on February 11, 2016 7:41PM0 -
Just let shields scale with HP. Or the average of Magicka and HP.
TOTALLY. im always saying this. ALL shileds need to scale off the same thing. whatever that is, health probably being the most balanced, dosent matter but apply it to all damage shields. Id like it to be magica for the sake of my templar but that is not really balanced because your dps stat should not increase dps #hardened ward0
