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Spy Addon Group Damage

  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    coolmodi wrote: »
    Wait, do you mean lvl 10 dds without champion points?

    @KoshkaMurka Just what I encounter in non-vet LFG dungeons, I only play again since the F2P change fom time to time, so occasional LFG is all I do on the PvE side. My only higher char is the healer I raided with in the early days of this game, that one's V10.

    But be it lvl10 or V10, seeing comparable dmg to that which I do with my lower level chars (which is 3-5k dps depending on the fight) is incredibly rare. Seeing the other DD below half of that is common though. I have 90 CP or something, so a few % more dmg, but that's it.

    But anita ignored all that and just went on how it is normal to do 10k, and that a DD can also be afk np, that's just not true, and I'm perfectly sure also not in many (random) V16 groups. Hence why I called it "elitist" dreamworld, where everybody is so good.

    She/he also said my 5k scaled is low, which just shows that she/he really lives in some kind of dreamworld.

    Yes, your 5k is low. Normal dungeons are doable with that low dps (even though they will take a very long time), but any vet dungeon with dps check is close to impossible unless your another dd is from 20k dreamworld. Its not elitism, its simple math. And that's how this game was designed, since we have bosses like Manticora, Valkyn Skoria, Ibomez etc. Some fights also put extreme pressure on healers if dds dps is low (for example, vDarkshade netch and Engine Guardian).
    Group finder tool is problematic in many ways, and most importantly, it usually puts you with very clueless people and newbies, because most of people still prefer /z chat. I often pug for pledges through /z and most of dds I meet pull from ~8 to ~18k. But 2k? My tank pulls more when tanking Axes in AA.
    Edited by LadyNalcarya on January 21, 2016 5:55PM
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Let's not forget that this addon cuts both ways. .../...
    For the kind of people who think that 20K is required in for a PUG dungeon, then I can guarantee you that they themselves can't do anywhere near that kind of damage. These are the "wannabes" that you talk about.

    Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.
    BUT...
    I believe some people can be jerks enough to kick someone for supposedly low DPS EVEN if it's higher than theirs. And what's even worse than a jerk ? A jerk with the crown...

    You can say "ignore them, they're not worth it, just queue up again" but no. I won't queue up again, but drop LFG grouping altogether. I like it because it provides diferent runs with some unexpected, but I know enough people in the game (by far) to avoid it completely.

  • Defilted
    Defilted
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    Few things mentioned in this thread that are interesting.

    1. Players should not be able to see you numbers and gear without your consent.

    This information is not yours in anyway and you have no right to hide it from other as it is not yours to begin with.

    2. DPS numbers will get me or others kicked form groups

    This comment in general might be true in some groups. I have played MMO's for a long time now and these types of players will always be there. I cant even imagine trying a speed run or a speed no death run on any dungeon with a pug group. Why would you even do this to yourself?

    I am on XBOX so I get to see no numbers which sucks. I would love to see my own and others for the simple fact I could ask them what they are doing and see if I can improve what I am doing.

    4. Good players do not need numbers to know they are doing good DPS

    I would agree with this only because I play on a platform with no numbers at all. You get a good sense on how long a boss should be alive and how many rotations of the phases you should go through before they are dead.

    Seeing numbers on the next big release will be great and allow me to improve greatly.


    As the for the over all conversation

    Seeing and comparing numbers will be a good thing overall and allow players to get better if they choose to do so. There will always be players that are not nice people.
    XBOX NA
    XBOX Series X

    #NightmareBear
  • Destruent
    Destruent
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    coolmodi wrote: »
    Wait, do you mean lvl 10 dds without champion points?

    @KoshkaMurka Just what I encounter in non-vet LFG dungeons, I only play again since the F2P change fom time to time, so occasional LFG is all I do on the PvE side. My only higher char is the healer I raided with in the early days of this game, that one's V10.

    But be it lvl10 or V10, seeing comparable dmg to that which I do with my lower level chars (which is 3-5k dps depending on the fight) is incredibly rare. Seeing the other DD below half of that is common though. I have 90 CP or something, so a few % more dmg, but that's it.

    But anita ignored all that and just went on how it is normal to do 10k, and that a DD can also be afk np, that's just not true, and I'm perfectly sure also not in many (random) V16 groups. Hence why I called it "elitist" dreamworld, where everybody is so good.

    She/he also said my 5k scaled is low, which just shows that she/he really lives in some kind of dreamworld.

    Hhhmmm.... Believe me, at VR16 (not "battle-levelled", plain VR16) 10K DPS is NOT HIGH. It's even average-low.
    So... either we don't play the same game, OR... battle-levelling to VR16 at low levels brings people to a maximum of 7-8K DPS, and a "standard" of 3-5K ? If that is the case, ZOS should overhaul battle levelling urgently...

    I don't have a low level char right now so I cannot test, but can anyone here please help sorting this out : what DPS does a lvl15-40 character achieve in a VR16-scaled and battle-levelled instance ?

    (Of course I'm quite happy about Gina's message, but posting Whitney Houston's "I will always love you" would feel quite out of place I guess. I'm sorry though for all of you who were genuinely happy about GroupDamage and intended to use it respectfully. Well, that feels out of place too, so I'll leave at that I guess...)

    .

    Dunno about lower levels...but my V2-Magicka Sorc was pulling 15k...22k DPS-ST in V16 dungeons without battle-leveling...so maybe 10k+ is realistic :)
    Noobplar
  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
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    In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.
    Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......
    quiFv3Z.png
    Edited by Cuyler on January 21, 2016 6:16PM
    Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
    CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
    "How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]
  • code65536
    code65536
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    I believe some people can be jerks enough to kick someone for supposedly low DPS EVEN if it's higher than theirs.

    I'm sorry, but that's just preposterous.

    First, if someone really does stoop that low, I doubt that the existence or non-existence of this addon would affect their behavior or change anything.

    Second, who are these mythical uber-jerks that you keep bringing up? Are they really that common, as you seem to suggest? Your tirades against this addon are premised on the behavior of a tiny, rare minority--people who would continue to be jerks with or without such an addon, I might add.
    Edited by code65536 on January 21, 2016 6:13PM
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

    Dungeons and Trials:
    Personal best scores:
    Dungeon trifectas:
    Media: YouTubeTwitch
  • Bluepitbull13
    Bluepitbull13
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    kQT6doj.jpg

    PC-NA
  • Humatiel
    Humatiel
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    an extremely disappointing ending to what could have perhaps been a good start toward a better more advancement focused community. While I try to remain open minded in all things the urge to begin testing my partners dps on the first mob of enemies (alone) to see if I should leave a dungeon is particularly compelling at this point. After all if ZoS won't help us measure dps then why shouldn't I do it at the expense of the player.
    VMA | vHRC-HM | vAA-HM | vSO-HM | vMOL-HM
    700+ CP
    GM of Luxury Raids
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    Cuyler wrote: »
    In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.
    Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......
    quiFv3Z.png

    I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • Multavi
    Multavi
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    Hey soo people talking about the spy addon and being able to know someones dps IS A GOOD THING for competive pve and no competitive you can compare builds and see how your doing against other peoples builds, and if your not doing such great DPS ME MYSELF AND LOTS OF PEOPLE I KNOW ALWAYS HELP PEOPLE WHO LACK IN THE DPS DEPARTMENT but we wont know untill we see it. so whoever thinks this is a bad idea only thinks so because they themselves are not willing to help one another with there builds or just to lazy to
  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
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    Is it time for the poll yet?
    Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
    CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
    "How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]
  • Bluepitbull13
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    Cuyler wrote: »
    Is it time for the poll yet?

    poll time, oh maybe put "should zenimax offer us tools to determine single target dps and group dps" if we can't have addons to show us, then they should implement it for us.
    PC-NA
  • Bluepitbull13
    Bluepitbull13
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    what good is it to whack on a test dummy if I don't have numerical values to show me progress?
    Edited by Bluepitbull13 on January 21, 2016 6:57PM
    PC-NA
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    code65536 wrote: »
    I believe some people can be jerks enough to kick someone for supposedly low DPS EVEN if it's higher than theirs.

    I'm sorry, but that's just preposterous.

    First, if someone really does stoop that low, I doubt that the existence or non-existence of this addon would affect their behavior or change anything.

    Second, who are these mythical uber-jerks that you keep bringing up? Are they really that common, as you seem to suggest? Your tirades against this addon are premised on the behavior of a tiny, rare minority--people who would continue to be jerks with or without such an addon, I might add.

    People I met ingame.

    [mylife] I'm over 40. Dungeon Master (1987) was my first game. Skyrim (2011) was my 2nd game. ESO is my 3rd game. [/mylife]
    In other words, I'm not used to the rude and violent (though harmless) way the younger generation uses nowadays (generation thing like in any generation). I haven't developed a "thicker skin" like many of you might have in other MMOs, and my "standards" might not exactly match those of the "standard MMO player". I'm not telling you this to bore you or anything, nor to say that my point of view is more valid than anyone else's, but just to put it in some kind of context. Starting ESO, I chose a sorcerer because it sounded cool, had no idea what "class" meant or implied, thought it was some kind of RP-archetype.

    I *know* that there's many of us around here with a similar profile : not familiar with MMOs, not even gamers, but so hooked by TES5 that we went to ESO for the sake of "Elder Scrolls" ("Skyrim 2"...). Stayed because I love the game, and because of my guild, which is also a haven for people who, like me, cannot cope or better said, don't want to have to cope with everyday's violence / competition in the game, even though it's "normal" in MMOs ... "just ignore them" is not good enough for people like me, we want to be protected. Tamriel is an escape world, I don't want to be confronted with standard jerkiness ingame.

    I know ZOS takes care of people like me : TES fans coming from solo games but potentially scared by "MMO mentality". And there's A LOT of us around. They just aren't all as "big-mouthed" as I am on forums.

    In short : what might sound to you as "harmless/just ignore" is a "no/no" to people like me. For me there are A LOT of those "uber-jerks" in the game. But maybe you wouldn't even see them, you'd just widely ignore them. I can't.
    If you're kicked out of a group you'd just sigh and join another group.
    If I get kicked out of a group I'd probably log off for an entire week.
    That leads to a risk/benefit analysis of such an addon as GroupDamage to be positive for you and negative for me. I listened and understood and even agreed to most of pro-arguments you brought. They just, imho, didn't outweight the risk. Your equation was different : you understand the risks, but you think the benefits are greater than the risks.

    And I don't care how tiny a "minority" these "jerks" are. I say "don't give them an extra gun to use". And blame them for being jerks, not me for fearing them.

    Hope this help understanding my position, which I believe to represent quite a lot of players who don't even dare/bother to read/post on forums.

    On a side note, I was very, very eagerly expecting the "PvP part of the justice system" which was cancelled, I am very disappointed about that, which is most certainly due to "carebears like me", so you see, I also have to bow to sensitive people, too...



    [Waiting for flames now, as every time anyone says something even remotely sincere and personal].

    .
    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on January 21, 2016 7:05PM
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    what good is it to whack on a test dummy if I don't have numerical values to show me progress?

    On a test dummy the game will show you what you're doing (cloud combat text coming with next update in vanilla game), and FTC or similar addons will tell you, too.
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    code65536 wrote: »
    I believe some people can be jerks enough to kick someone for supposedly low DPS EVEN if it's higher than theirs.

    I'm sorry, but that's just preposterous.

    First, if someone really does stoop that low, I doubt that the existence or non-existence of this addon would affect their behavior or change anything.

    Second, who are these mythical uber-jerks that you keep bringing up? Are they really that common, as you seem to suggest? Your tirades against this addon are premised on the behavior of a tiny, rare minority--people who would continue to be jerks with or without such an addon, I might add.

    People I met ingame.

    [mylife] I'm over 40. Dungeon Master (1987) was my first game. Skyrim (2011) was my 2nd game. ESO is my 3rd game. [/mylife]
    In other words, I'm not used to the rude and violent (though harmless) way the younger generation uses nowadays (generation thing like in any generation). I haven't developed a "thicker skin" like many of you might have in other MMOs, and my "standards" might not exactly match those of the "standard MMO player". I'm not telling you this to bore you or anything, nor to say that my point of view is more valid than anyone else's, but just to put it in some kind of context. Starting ESO, I chose a sorcerer because it sounded cool, had no idea what "class" meant or implied, thought it was some kind of RP-archetype.

    I *know* that there's many of us around here with a similar profile : not familiar with MMOs, not even gamers, but so hooked by TES5 that we went to ESO for the sake of "Elder Scrolls" ("Skyrim 2"...). Stayed because I love the game, and because of my guild, which is also a haven for people who, like me, cannot cope or better said, don't want to have to cope with everyday's violence / competition in the game, even though it's "normal" in MMOs ... "just ignore them" is not good enough for people like me, we want to be protected. Tamriel is an escape world, I don't want to be confronted with standard jerkiness ingame.

    I know ZOS takes care of people like me : TES fans coming from solo games but potentially scared by "MMO mentality". And there's A LOT of us around. They just aren't all as "big-mouthed" as I am on forums.

    In short : what might sound to you as "harmless/just ignore" is a "no/no" to people like me. For me there are A LOT of those "uber-jerks" in the game. But maybe you wouldn't even see them, you'd just widely ignore them. I can't.
    If you're kicked out of a group you'd just sigh and join another group.
    If I get kicked out of a group I'd probably log off for an entire week.
    That leads to a risk/benefit analysis of such an addon as GroupDamage to be positive for you and negative for me. I listened and understood and even agreed to most of pro-arguments you brought. They just, imho, didn't outweight the risk. Your equation was different : you understand the risks, but you think the benefits are greater than the risks.

    Hope this help understanding my position, which I believe to represent quite a lot of players who don't even dare/bother to read/post on forums.

    On a side note, I was very, very eagerly expecting the "PvP part of the justice system" which was cancelled, I am very disappointed about that, which is most certainly due to "carebears like me", so you see, I also have to bow to sensitive people, too...

    [Waiting for flames now, as every time anyone says something even remotely sincere and personal].

    .

    I see your point. Guess I'm just more thick skinned (if I meet those jerks, I just laugh and add them to ignore list), but I can underdstand you. Though unfortunately these people can stil find a reason to be, well, jerks. Be it dps or gear or even your class. Even people with minmaxed chars and high dps are not safe from these situations. The only way to avoid this is to run pledges with likeminded people from your guild or friends list.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    code65536 wrote: »
    I believe some people can be jerks enough to kick someone for supposedly low DPS EVEN if it's higher than theirs.

    I'm sorry, but that's just preposterous.

    First, if someone really does stoop that low, I doubt that the existence or non-existence of this addon would affect their behavior or change anything.

    Second, who are these mythical uber-jerks that you keep bringing up? Are they really that common, as you seem to suggest? Your tirades against this addon are premised on the behavior of a tiny, rare minority--people who would continue to be jerks with or without such an addon, I might add.

    People I met ingame.

    [mylife] I'm over 40. Dungeon Master (1987) was my first game. Skyrim (2011) was my 2nd game. ESO is my 3rd game. [/mylife]
    In other words, I'm not used to the rude and violent (though harmless) way the younger generation uses nowadays (generation thing like in any generation). I haven't developed a "thicker skin" like many of you might have in other MMOs, and my "standards" might not exactly match those of the "standard MMO player". I'm not telling you this to bore you or anything, nor to say that my point of view is more valid than anyone else's, but just to put it in some kind of context. Starting ESO, I chose a sorcerer because it sounded cool, had no idea what "class" meant or implied, thought it was some kind of RP-archetype.

    I *know* that there's many of us around here with a similar profile : not familiar with MMOs, not even gamers, but so hooked by TES5 that we went to ESO for the sake of "Elder Scrolls" ("Skyrim 2"...). Stayed because I love the game, and because of my guild, which is also a haven for people who, like me, cannot cope or better said, don't want to have to cope with everyday's violence / competition in the game, even though it's "normal" in MMOs ... "just ignore them" is not good enough for people like me, we want to be protected. Tamriel is an escape world, I don't want to be confronted with standard jerkiness ingame.

    I know ZOS takes care of people like me : TES fans coming from solo games but potentially scared by "MMO mentality". And there's A LOT of us around. They just aren't all as "big-mouthed" as I am on forums.

    In short : what might sound to you as "harmless/just ignore" is a "no/no" to people like me. For me there are A LOT of those "uber-jerks" in the game. But maybe you wouldn't even see them, you'd just widely ignore them. I can't.
    If you're kicked out of a group you'd just sigh and join another group.
    If I get kicked out of a group I'd probably log off for an entire week.
    That leads to a risk/benefit analysis of such an addon as GroupDamage to be positive for you and negative for me. I listened and understood and even agreed to most of pro-arguments you brought. They just, imho, didn't outweight the risk. Your equation was different : you understand the risks, but you think the benefits are greater than the risks.

    Hope this help understanding my position, which I believe to represent quite a lot of players who don't even dare/bother to read/post on forums.

    On a side note, I was very, very eagerly expecting the "PvP part of the justice system" which was cancelled, I am very disappointed about that, which is most certainly due to "carebears like me", so you see, I also have to bow to sensitive people, too...

    [Waiting for flames now, as every time anyone says something even remotely sincere and personal].

    .

    It is rare that I run into something that I can't understand on some level. I can't even begin to fathom the amount of emo required to log off the game for a week over being removed from a group.
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • Reznique
    Reznique
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    Im installing that addon ^^
  • Bluepitbull13
    Bluepitbull13
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    [mylife] I'm over 40. Dungeon Master (1987) was my first game. Skyrim (2011) was my 2nd game. ESO is my 3rd game. [/mylife]
    In other words, I'm not used to the rude and violent (though harmless) way the younger generation uses nowadays (generation thing like in any generation). I haven't developed a "thicker skin" like many of you might have in other MMOs, and my "standards" might not exactly match those of the "standard MMO player". I'm not telling you this to bore you or anything, nor to say that my point of view is more valid than anyone else's, but just to put it in some kind of context. Starting ESO, I chose a sorcerer because it sounded cool, had no idea what "class" meant or implied, thought it was some kind of RP-archetype.

    I *know* that there's many of us around here with a similar profile : not familiar with MMOs, not even gamers, but so hooked by TES5 that we went to ESO for the sake of "Elder Scrolls" ("Skyrim 2"...). Stayed because I love the game, and because of my guild, which is also a haven for people who, like me, cannot cope or better said, don't want to have to cope with everyday's violence / competition in the game, even though it's "normal" in MMOs ... "just ignore them" is not good enough for people like me, we want to be protected. Tamriel is an escape world, I don't want to be confronted with standard jerkiness ingame.

    I know ZOS takes care of people like me : TES fans coming from solo games but potentially scared by "MMO mentality". And there's A LOT of us around. They just aren't all as "big-mouthed" as I am on forums.

    In short : what might sound to you as "harmless/just ignore" is a "no/no" to people like me. For me there are A LOT of those "uber-jerks" in the game. But maybe you wouldn't even see them, you'd just widely ignore them. I can't.
    If you're kicked out of a group you'd just sigh and join another group.
    If I get kicked out of a group I'd probably log off for an entire week.
    That leads to a risk/benefit analysis of such an addon as GroupDamage to be positive for you and negative for me. I listened and understood and even agreed to most of pro-arguments you brought. They just, imho, didn't outweight the risk. Your equation was different : you understand the risks, but you think the benefits are greater than the risks.

    Hope this help understanding my position, which I believe to represent quite a lot of players who don't even dare/bother to read/post on forums.

    On a side note, I was very, very eagerly expecting the "PvP part of the justice system" which was cancelled, I am very disappointed about that, which is most certainly due to "carebears like me", so you see, I also have to bow to sensitive people, too...

    [Waiting for flames now, as every time anyone says something even remotely sincere and personal].

    .

    This game has a bit of everything, from the role players, even erotic role players to casual "I just want to quest" and fish all day for funsies to grouping up in the evenings and doing pledges before having to go to sleep, but their is a competitive side to this game either it be PvP or to the top of the leaderboards in all the trials and pushing the limits of our skill in the game and just as much as tools exist to make "role playing easy through emotes" to maximizing profits through master merchant. The competitive side needs things such as buff/DPS parse trackers, even if groupdamage was 100% in-accurate or not just the fact that it's something that was causing mass hysteria is what I don't agree with.

    We still need tools for our side of the game that 98% of this game shuns on, I understand that the majority of the community doesn't care about the competitive side but the 2% still spent quite of bit of money and time in this game and eventually as people leave the game and get their competitive kicks somewhere else there's voids to fill and I say this as I run trials with people that weren't around to see the "FILL THE GROUP WITH MOAR DK's!!! MOAR FIRE!!!" meta of prior 1.6
    Edited by Bluepitbull13 on January 21, 2016 7:22PM
    PC-NA
  • Bluepitbull13
    Bluepitbull13
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    what good is it to whack on a test dummy if I don't have numerical values to show me progress?

    On a test dummy the game will show you what you're doing (cloud combat text coming with next update in vanilla game), and FTC or similar addons will tell you, too.

    That's to say if the incremental patch that's going to affect groupdamage isn't going to affect those addons or any other future incremental patches. Which reminds me #ripFTCsoOutdatedplissSomebodytakeover

    Oh and if they give us cloud combat text than pliss ZoS give us native damage meters group and single target #kThanks
    Edited by Bluepitbull13 on January 21, 2016 7:19PM
    PC-NA
  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
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    Cuyler wrote: »
    In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.
    Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......
    quiFv3Z.png

    regarding my knowledge of how this addon works - the change announced by Gina doesen´t change anything...
    as you allready have to affect your groupmembers somehow to get their name taged to their player ID.
    so the information of what ID did what is still send, the only thing to do is to tag a proper name to that ID form a temporary ID-lib (wich i believe the addon allready does anyway)
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • Daveheart
    Daveheart
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    kQT6doj.jpg

    There are a few people in this thread who are trying to convince others that this addon will magically transform nice players into jerks and cause them to kick people from groups. For the most part I've found this community friendly and helpful (and generally accepting of help). Most of the times when someone finds out their gear is part of the problem causing sub-par DPS or survivability, they'll make a change. Also, most of the time if that person can't afford it, there are others in the community who'll craft it for free and help them every step of the way.

    The player base of this game won't transform into a bunch of jerks just because of the existence of one addon, and removing this addon won't make the players who kick others from group suddenly nice and patient.

    So what do most of the negative posts in this thread look like to me? They look like fear mongering.

    I wish the suggestions to use FTC's optional sharing were valid; however, FTC appears to no longer be in development. The damage sharing feature of FTC was also less reliable and more buggy than GroupDamage (even in this early and still buggy stage of development). I'm sorry to see this addon go as it truly is a useful tool. Perhaps @coolmodi can make an attempt to cannibalize the FTC damage meter and group damage sharing in an effort to keep something useful to groups in active development.
    Daggerfall Covenant (PC-NA)

    The Order of Mundus | Nightfighters
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    My topic got locked but I'd like @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert to read the posts in there

    Click Me
    #MOREORBS
  • wayfarerx
    wayfarerx
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    If the functionality that powers this addon is removed I will be very sorry to see it go.

    Note: I am not a hardcore PvE player. I've never run a group trial, I mostly PUG the pledges and join in guild events. I have not cleared vCoA, vWGT or vICP. I just managed to take down the Engine Guardian for the first time last week.

    In short: I'm a filthy casual, but I love using this addon.

    GroupDamage doesn't really tell anyone anything that's not already obvious if you look. Right before I started using this addon I was in a vet Fungal Grotto pledge PUG as DPS and we were stuck at Gamyne Bandu. Whenever the four shades would appear and lock a player down one of two things would happen: if it was anyone besides me that got locked I would take out a shade and the fight would continue, if I got locked down then I would inevitably be killed. Simply put, the other DPS was not keeping up and the tank and healer were unable to compensate. After a few wipes the group fell apart with the tank and the other DPS hurling insults at each other.

    So bad PUGs and ***holes exist with or without this addon.

    What is great about this addon, however, is that it gives you a concise, real-time display of group effectiveness as well as individual's effectiveness relative to each other. I can be in a fight that seems like it's taking too long and quickly glance at the GroupDamage meter to get an idea of what's happening without having to take focus off of my own rotation and positioning. Maybe it's me that's not keeping up and I need to work on my strategy, maybe it's the other DPS and I need to work harder at covering for them. Conversely, when we're cutting through bosses like a hot knife through butter I can glance at the display and see that the healer is putting out massive single target DPS in addition to healing, or maybe the tank is holding the boss and cutting it to pieces at the same time.

    This addon allows me to quickly see what's going right in a dungeon run and gives me the opportunity to study what the good players are doing so that I can improve in my role. It also gives me context to understand how I'm performing relative to the rest of my group. It will be difficult to glean the same insights if this addon goes away.
    @wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion
  • Nifty2g
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    All in all @ZOS_GinaBruno this is a very disappointing change and direction you are wanting to take this game, I don't think I've ever heard of kicking people from group at least not the players I play with anyway.

    Stop spoonfeeding players and creating barriers from improvement. This is getting tiresome with the ridiculous changes.
    #MOREORBS
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    Please read
    Gilliamtherogue wrote: »
    Honestly this addon actually took away from the elitest and abrasive attitude that some people tell stories about being kicked for not pulling high DPS. Before the only way to truly see someone's DPS was to have them post from an addon like FTC, Combat Analytics, or something else. These were many times doctored or flat out ignored by players, which usually ended up on them being black listed for lying or refusing to share their damage. Many guilds had to make the choice because in end game content you need to have a bench mark in order to actually complete content, and there was no way to see if a player was pulling their weight unless they complied. Refusing to comply meant they could either let them stay and forever not know, or to take the safe route and just not have them come again.

    Now with GroupDamage I've actually been helping even more players learn more about their specs because I can see actual data in front of me to find out where they could be lacking. Before I wasn't able to send people tells saying things like, "Hey, noticed your damage is a little bit on the low end, are you interested in boosting your performance?" or something of the letter. Being the guild leader of NA's top PvE guild I often run with players who are trying to join our ranks, and GroupDamage was a massive boon that helped me determine if a player was qualified, or close to qualifying if they made some adjustments. I was able to walk by them step by step and notice flaws in where they'd spike and dip in damage based on rotation, mechanical issue, or just plain low damage output from shoddy gear choices. Not only this but this addon actually has brought a lot of friendly competition and drive back into players in our raids to put more effort forth. They know we all see the damage done and want to impress or improve, so they put in more work. Removing this puts us back to everyone just hiding their data and a lack of forward progress to be made.

    Right when I think ZoS can't make any worse decisions than they already do, they just continue to impress me by how incompetent they are. If you want players to enjoy your game, you need to have a system in place that allows growth to occur. GroupDamage was finally a step in the right direction that was starting to allow the "elitests" to start realizing what other players struggle with, and help them. Yes, some underprivileged children or egotistical brats abused this system in the wrong way that made some other players feel excluded, but that is in the MASSIVE minority. This is like you removing crouch from game because a few players decide to t-bag others with crouching over and over. Stop letting the loudest and worst voices dictate your decision making.
    #MOREORBS
  • coolmodi
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    Yes, your 5k is low. Normal dungeons are doable with that low dps (even though they will take a very long time),
    [...]
    I often pug for pledges through /z and most of dds I meet pull from ~8 to ~18k. But 2k? My tank pulls more when tanking Axes in AA.

    @KoshkaMurka http://cdn.eso.mmoui.com/preview/pvw4081.png (V16 scaled non-vet grotto, my real level was 20-30)
    That's how 90% of my V16 scaled LFG dungeons look like, where (for me) 3k is low and 5k the best I can do. And I can count the times I have been 2nd place (by a few single % at best) with my fingers.

    The numbers will change on real V16 as it seems, and having all passives and proper gear will also push it a bit, but this is just what I saw over months in LFG while leveling chars.
    Destruent wrote: »
    Dunno about lower levels...but my V2-Magicka Sorc was pulling 15k...22k DPS-ST in V16 dungeons without battle-leveling...so maybe 10k+ is realistic :)

    @Destruent And how did you get those numbers? I can also get much over 10k in FTC with the right conditions while actually only doing 4k over the boss fight.

    I honestly trust my addon more with telling me that my performance is - compared to the others I run with - very good. If I ever encounter someone doing 15k-22k dps single target while battle leveld I will reconsider ;)

    Sadly that won't be possible anymore in the future, so it's back to guessing what numbers are actually real, and which are just made up crap :(

    Edit: And the fun thing is, without my addon I'd now sit here thinking I'm hilariously bad, thankfully that is not the case. I know that I never hold back my groups, the opposite is the case, that's enough for me for now :)
    Edited by coolmodi on January 21, 2016 8:40PM
  • Xjcon
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    Tyrion87 wrote: »
    Unbelievable... 17 pages already of inconclusive discussion where everybody thinks that the right is on his side.


    It cannot be conclusive, nor does it have to be. Some people seem to lack understanding when they post something like "/threadwon" because it's not something to "win" or "loose" for any of us.
    The final decision lies with ZOS and this thread is for ZOS. They probably already have their own vision of this addon, but this thread gives them an insight as to what the different player profiles think of it and feel about it, what the true intentions are of those who are using it and the fears/issues of those who disapprove of it. That's why it is important that as many people as possible contribute.

    I keep on posting here because I think that someone has to stand up for all those who dislike the addon but don't speak up for fear of all the name-calling that appear here (even after moderation). Unfortunately I cannot entirely speak for them either. But it is equally important that people who like this addon express it here too.

    .

    So you say you are here to speak up for people because they are afraid to speak for themselves? Seriously? Someone could come in here and voice their opinion and never come back to the thread to even see if someone is going to disagree with them.

    I think it's over stated when someone claims to be speaking up for other people. I could simply say I speak for many people who are extremely happy with this addon and want it to be left in game.
    Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
    Jcon V16 Orc DK
    Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
    Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB
  • Cously
    Cously
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    The only reason to have a problem with this addon is:

    You are pretending to be an elite player, trying to worm your way into elite groups.
  • lonewolf26
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    I am displeased with the decision to patch out the group damage identification property. As someone that's played only a few classes in this game to end game, I was hoping this add-on would persist to help me tune my builds. However a DSP meter alone can't do this. The only way you know if you're doing well is to see how you measure up with respect to others. This tool gives context to the total contribution you are making, and not just how bursty you were in the execute phase. In most settings having this into can help open a dialog between you and others who are doing better than you.

    We as strong players appreciate tools like this as they give us feedback so that we can accurately evaluate our builds and improve our performance.
This discussion has been closed.