Spy Addon Group Damage

Joy_Division

Hi ZoS!

The main problem here is the existence of so many under-performing skills/gear which people use trusting that you have properly tested them to be competitive. Either through ignorance, role-play reasons, personal preference, or misinformation there are a lot of people out there using inefficient skills/armor sets that lead to poor DPS and embarrassment when such information is recorded.

Every sorcerer who doesn't: dual wield, fills their bars with toggles, wears Julianos/Kragernack's/Twice Born Star, use overload, etc., is a very noticeable (and embarrassing) DPS loss. I know you try to make things both viable and interesting, but you can't go an entire year without addressing class balance and two years since launch still be "rewarding" us with sturdy max level gear that provides some minor effect.

I do have sympathy for those who do not want their DPS posted publicly because I tried to raid with a sorcerer back in 1.5 when they were terrible DPS no matter how you played/geared them. But hiding stuff under the carpet and hoping it will go away is *not* the solution.

Please listen to us when we tell you wall of elements is terrible, 90% of the DPS sets you give out are not viable and give those players who lack the time to study this stuff and trust you to make a balanced game the confidence that they can perform at a decent level and not be embarrassed posting their DPS in public.

Information leads to solutions and improvement. Discouraging the exchange of information has historically been counterproductive and almost always so.

Xjcon

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Let's not forget that this addon cuts both ways. .../...
For the kind of people who think that 20K is required in for a PUG dungeon, then I can guarantee you that they themselves can't do anywhere near that kind of damage. These are the "wannabes" that you talk about.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.
BUT...
I believe some people can be jerks enough to kick someone for supposedly low DPS EVEN if it's higher than theirs. And what's even worse than a jerk ? A jerk with the crown...

You can say "ignore them, they're not worth it, just queue up again" but no. I won't queue up again, but drop LFG grouping altogether. I like it because it provides diferent runs with some unexpected, but I know enough people in the game (by far) to avoid it completely.

You are right, some people can be jerks and still not be up to their own standards.

I was waiting in Grahtwood for a group to be looking for a DPS one day and someone put up LF High DPS. I responded that I was a high DPS, the person claimed they had already filled the spot so I moved on. 10 minutes later that same person asked If I was still lfg which I was so I joined them. I went in to the dungeon thinking this was going to be a nuke fest like it normally is when 2 high dps run a pledge. It felt like I was the only dps through most of the run which I didn't care because stuff still died resonably fast for what it was. We finished the run and I politely said thanks for the group and away I went to do other things.

Without group damage there was no way for me to say what the other dps was doing. The point of this is that people are going to be jerks and kick people regardless of this addon, I wouldn't kick someone from pug run if they pulled low dps I realy don't mind it as like many have said it doesn't matter all that much in most cases. But that person obviously kicked someone 10 minutes in to their run because they were not the high dps they were looking for.

There is no reason to say the addon is going to turn people in to jerks, if they were that way it was before Group Damage was ever created.

ZOS_GinaBruno

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Elsonso

I support this change from ZOS

1) People who want to improve how they play will be more than willing to share whatever information they feel is necessary in order to accomplish that goal. All that is necessary is for individual players to share their information via chat. Add-ons can send this information. Add-ons can interpret this information as it arrives. All information is voluntary and contributed by people who care.

2) If people are hiding or faking their numbers, chances are they are not interested in improving and really don't care, or really don't want "this group" assessing them. If they are not interested in improving, or in hearing what opinions others have, then so be it. I cannot see any argument in here that tells me that other players must to know this information.

3) Ownership of "numbers and gear" is irrelevant. Right to see that information is, and ZOS says with this change that no player should be obligated to share it. The sharing of information needs to be voluntary. I am fine with this.

I really do not see this as an issue preventing the "elite" from excluding the "casuals" since they will find a way to do this no matter what ZOS does. They already practice this and have no reason to fear this change. They are going to share their builds and numbers with each other and they are already going to be playing with people of a like mind.

The people who are put in check by this change are the "data collection" people. For whatever reason, they like to see what everyone else is doing. They want to get the big picture, assure themselves of superiority, use big data to asses their own capabilities, optimize group play, or whatever. There is really no good reason for them to not attempt to collect this information, but I feel that this should not come at the expense of those who do not wish to share it.

I think the bottom line for me is that the desire to collect data is not more important than the desire to hide it. Since the two are in conflict, the only reasonable result is to go with the latter. That is the "opt in" choice.

Shunravi

I just want to say goodbye to making smooth and fun pug trials work where they would have failed before. Now its back to asking for dps and gear, and making people uncomfortable because of that. And kicking (or constantly wiping because i hate kicking people) because there is little else to go on if they dont.

Im gonna miss making something that should have been hard to near impossible work.

code65536

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Then let us opt in.

The current method of sharing combat data (without this addon) is, at best, clunky, inaccurate, inefficient, and does not give us real-time data as the fight progresses. This is something that has consistently not been addressed in this thread: There is no good alternative at the moment.

Let us flag our account so that our data can be picked up and analyzed by someone else's GroupDamage, so that they're not relying on me to manually spit out a single number at the end of a fight. So that they can see my numbers as they change during the fight, for all fights. Don't take this away from us and pretend that this is okay because we have adequate alternatives. Because we don't.

wayfarerx

code65536 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Then let us opt in.

The current method of sharing combat data (without this addon) is, at best, clunky, inaccurate, inefficient, and does not give us real-time data as the fight progresses. This is something that has consistently not been addressed in this thread: There is no good alternative at the moment.

Let us flag our account so that our data can be picked up and analyzed by someone else's GroupDamage, so that they're not relying on me to manually spit out a single number at the end of a fight. So that they can see my numbers as they change during the fight, for all fights. Don't take this away from us and pretend that this is okay because we have adequate alternatives. Because we don't.

This.

If you're going to kill this addon give us something to replace it with. Let us opt-in to sharing real-time combat info beyond just linking DPS numbers in chat after a fight ends.

Ruben

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Then please, add an option to broadcast this info to your group (or even only your guildies/friend list) as a future update to the Combat Scroll Text system. 100% optional, off by default and officially calculated DPS numbers would make this thing pretty popular.

Shunravi

@code65536 agreed, let there be opt in for something like this.

Xjcon

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I believe some people can be jerks enough to kick someone for supposedly low DPS EVEN if it's higher than theirs.

I'm sorry, but that's just preposterous.

First, if someone really does stoop that low, I doubt that the existence or non-existence of this addon would affect their behavior or change anything.

Second, who are these mythical uber-jerks that you keep bringing up? Are they really that common, as you seem to suggest? Your tirades against this addon are premised on the behavior of a tiny, rare minority--people who would continue to be jerks with or without such an addon, I might add.

People I met ingame.

[mylife] I'm over 40. Dungeon Master (1987) was my first game. Skyrim (2011) was my 2nd game. ESO is my 3rd game. [/mylife]
In other words, I'm not used to the rude and violent (though harmless) way the younger generation uses nowadays (generation thing like in any generation). I haven't developed a "thicker skin" like many of you might have in other MMOs, and my "standards" might not exactly match those of the "standard MMO player". I'm not telling you this to bore you or anything, nor to say that my point of view is more valid than anyone else's, but just to put it in some kind of context. Starting ESO, I chose a sorcerer because it sounded cool, had no idea what "class" meant or implied, thought it was some kind of RP-archetype.

I *know* that there's many of us around here with a similar profile : not familiar with MMOs, not even gamers, but so hooked by TES5 that we went to ESO for the sake of "Elder Scrolls" ("Skyrim 2"...). Stayed because I love the game, and because of my guild, which is also a haven for people who, like me, cannot cope or better said, don't want to have to cope with everyday's violence / competition in the game, even though it's "normal" in MMOs ... "just ignore them" is not good enough for people like me, we want to be protected. Tamriel is an escape world, I don't want to be confronted with standard jerkiness ingame.

I know ZOS takes care of people like me : TES fans coming from solo games but potentially scared by "MMO mentality". And there's A LOT of us around. They just aren't all as "big-mouthed" as I am on forums.

In short : what might sound to you as "harmless/just ignore" is a "no/no" to people like me. For me there are A LOT of those "uber-jerks" in the game. But maybe you wouldn't even see them, you'd just widely ignore them. I can't.
If you're kicked out of a group you'd just sigh and join another group.
If I get kicked out of a group I'd probably log off for an entire week.
That leads to a risk/benefit analysis of such an addon as GroupDamage to be positive for you and negative for me. I listened and understood and even agreed to most of pro-arguments you brought. They just, imho, didn't outweight the risk. Your equation was different : you understand the risks, but you think the benefits are greater than the risks.

And I don't care how tiny a "minority" these "jerks" are. I say "don't give them an extra gun to use". And blame them for being jerks, not me for fearing them.

Hope this help understanding my position, which I believe to represent quite a lot of players who don't even dare/bother to read/post on forums.

On a side note, I was very, very eagerly expecting the "PvP part of the justice system" which was cancelled, I am very disappointed about that, which is most certainly due to "carebears like me", so you see, I also have to bow to sensitive people, too...



[Waiting for flames now, as every time anyone says something even remotely sincere and personal].

.

I understand many players come for the Skyrim online side of Elderscrolls. And I'm happy you enjoy this game as do I. But taking this away from people just because there is a chance some jerk will be a jerk isn't the way thing should be handled. Maybe use the same passion you have for this addons removal to further the fact the game needs a vote to kick system coupled with a reason for kicking them. Take the power from the jerks don't take the information from the rest of us.

Addihul

Gina thank you for taking the time to give an explanation.

However, I second the comment above. If you're going to take the time to write the code to block this, then PLEASE add the option to flag it on your account. You don't want to share your damage? Uncheck it in the games options. Make it off by default. You noted there are good things to this addon. While you are already coding in the changes, would you not consider making it so both sides of the aisle benefit?

This tool mitigates the need to comb through endless raid videos of people posting their FTC parses. We also now have(had) a way to determine AoE damage on trash pulls. Vital info for raid leaders! Personally, this addon is/was one of the best and most exciting steps in competitive raiding.

Cuyler

You knew a poll was coming lol
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/242482/group-damage-addons-yes-or-no
Go vote pls!

timidobserver

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I know that a reversal is rare once a decision has been announced, but you should reconsider this. I would have even settle for a privacy toggle or providing more API support for addons to optionally share data with consenting group members like FTC does with map pings.

In other words, at least, give addons the ability to share data via a supported method rather than hacking it into map pings. Trying to accomdate both sides of this debate would have been a better approach. With that approach everyone would be happy or at least modetately satisfied. Instead, your competitive community are left feeling that they are the lowest priority.

However, thanks a lot for the response to my question. I appreciate the insight.

coolmodi

@ZOS_GinaBruno As others said, if it's so much of a problem to "spy" on people who don't know, then just make it opt-in.
If people activate it the combat events will have unit info, otherwise the they are anonymous.

While I really don't see the problem with it beeing generally possible as it's now, if you think you have so many customers that can't handle that and would run away, then by all means I won't argue against that decission, but there are also a lot people who don't like it removed. How much of which I don't know, I don't know the active(paying) player count so I can't even guess, but why not at least go the middle road?

Cuyler

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Wow. I'm taken back by ZOS as a company taking this stance.

Was it not mentioned that a player can determine another players average dps by simply looking at them? by watching them parse or the length of the fight? And we're allowed to see other HP bars in which one can determine a rough dps from as well? The addon simply narrowed those numbers to significant digits. Yet you refer to this as spying?!

I guess the next time I see someone hardcasting frags or some dps with 25k HP I'll look away for fear of "spying" on their (not really their) dps numbers. Spying, LOL you guys took the bait. Way to knock your game back to 2005 again.

MisterBigglesworth

Cuyler wrote: »

I guess the next time I see someone hardcasting frags or some dps with 25k HP I'll look away for fear of "spying" on their (not really their) dps numbers. Spying, LOL you guys took the bait. Way to knock your game back to 2005 again.

Yeah, I'm done here. These devs are completely out of touch and moving in the wrong direction with every step.

Bogdan_Kobzar

Please, ZoS, let this functionality of the group damage addon stay in the game.
For me, this is the best indicator of how my combat skills are progressing.
I can't see my combat mentor's screen, but when they say they are doing x, i can see how much damage x does as i attempt to replicate my mentor's technique.
I am a casual gamer, I don't do this for a living, I don't have 20hrs a day to spend on perfecting animation cancellation and light, medium, heavy attack weaving.

People WILL abuse anything, because they're people.

coolmodi

Another vote popped up: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/242468/dps-meters-yes-or-no#latest
Here's the other one http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/242482/group-damage-addons-yes-or-no

Please don't make even more, rather try to lead people to them. Sadly it probably won't be possible to reach a big enough sample size to get results that really show something conclusive.

KallistaBlackheart

@ZOS_GinaBruno this decision is a mistake. firstly ones dps is not private information once one is involved in a GROUP event such as a dungeon. the second you participate in content that others are relying on a base level of performance from you your performance is information that they now have a right to. playing a game is not a job, however once your performance determines time wasted on content your performance does matter and others should be able to have metrics available to determine said performance.

this thread has focused on dps but this tool also allows one to look at hps and overall damage output of the targets and how it affects those said damage hits, ie tanks. as such it is exceptionally useful for giving an overall determination of group performance. this now allows for reasonable and informed decisions about group arrangement. yes that means sometimes people will get kicked, but it also means that said kicking can be based on metrics not a guess. it also means that others can help in situations where performance is close but not quite there.

part of my summation from the new poll

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

it is a useful tool that lets players evaluate the overall group capability and yes kick if needed those who clearly are not ready for the GROUP content they are participating in. before this as a tank or a dps i would need to guess and kick or leave based on said educated guess. after this addon i could pinpoint just how badly the offending players were and make a judgment to stay/leave or kick/help based on exactly how badly. if this does go away i will be back to the limited options of rough guessing and kicking as unfair as that is. this tool does not violate any privacy as once you are in a group and your contributions matter for the group it is no longer your private information as others rely on your performance. no this is not a job, yes your performance determines if the others will be wasting their time.

KallistaBlackheart

an additional complaint about pending removal.
if ZOS does not care for others to see your special snowflakes dps or performance and presumably want you to play however you want even if it is not even close to helpful, why are there healing/tanking and DPS CHECKS built into many of the harder dungeons? ....

MisterBigglesworth

coolmodi wrote: »

Please don't make even more, rather try to lead people to them. Sadly it probably won't be possible to reach a big enough sample size to get results that really show something conclusive.

The original AOE caps thread had a poll with the largest sample size this forums has ever seen, with thousands of respondents in favor of their removal. That was over a year ago. AOE caps still here. Devs don't care.

coolmodi

Daveheart wrote: »

Perhaps @coolmodi can make an attempt to cannibalize the FTC damage meter and group damage sharing in an effort to keep something useful to groups in active development.

@Daveheart Depending on whether I stay with the game (the decission to remove something useful from the API again is just another nail in the coffin for me) and how the changes actually play out, I may look into it.

But I don't like the sole dps sharing, dps alone just doesn't say much, but overall dmg, percent of dmg, and as I would have added in the future, complete statistics for abilities and other things DO help. Sharing all that isn't possible though I think. Map pings are probably just too limited for anything close to that.

Xjcon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Sorry to hear this. It's too bad some players view group data as their own personal information.

LadyNalcarya

coolmodi wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Yes, your 5k is low. Normal dungeons are doable with that low dps (even though they will take a very long time),
[...]
I often pug for pledges through /z and most of dds I meet pull from ~8 to ~18k. But 2k? My tank pulls more when tanking Axes in AA.

@KoshkaMurka http://cdn.eso.mmoui.com/preview/pvw4081.png (V16 scaled non-vet grotto, my real level was 20-30)
That's how 90% of my V16 scaled LFG dungeons look like, where (for me) 3k is low and 5k the best I can do. And I can count the times I have been 2nd place (by a few single % at best) with my fingers.

The numbers will change on real V16 as it seems, and having all passives and proper gear will also push it a bit, but this is just what I saw over months in LFG while leveling chars.

Destruent wrote: »

Dunno about lower levels...but my V2-Magicka Sorc was pulling 15k...22k DPS-ST in V16 dungeons without battle-leveling...so maybe 10k+ is realistic

@Destruent And how did you get those numbers? I can also get much over 10k in FTC with the right conditions while actually only doing 4k over the boss fight.

I honestly trust my addon more with telling me that my performance is - compared to the others I run with - very good. If I ever encounter someone doing 15k-22k dps single target while battle leveld I will reconsider

Sadly that won't be possible anymore in the future, so it's back to guessing what numbers are actually real, and which are just made up crap

Edit: And the fun thing is, without my addon I'd now sit here thinking I'm hilariously bad, thankfully that is not the case. I know that I never hold back my groups, the opposite is the case, that's enough for me for now

I must admit, I havent seen 3:35 min normal dungeon boss fight for a while. Even though I pug regularly. Seriously, I have no words. Is pugging through group finder really that bad? My tank does more dps even when I go full-tanking mode.
For instance, sometimes I raid with my casual/social guild and they kill Mage/Warrior in 3 minutes. And this is not a minmaxers guild, some of guild members wear vr12 gear just for style etc.
I dont even know what to say. You're very unlucky with pugs, @coolmodi , I'd just stop using that damn grouping tool if I were you.

Feisty_Khajiit128

I should run a tank! As DPS, it is hard to find groups for vet, but as a tank...

Vangy

Well rip pug farm runs. Now I'm going to have to wait for friends to come online before I even dream of attempting any vICP/wgt or helm farm runs. Granted I've build quite a base of friends so this isn't a problem. Group finder just dosent quite cut it for me. But was fun while it lasted

Also, I do strongly believe the number of people who avoid pug runs is going to be a lot higher then people avoiding grouping because of this addon.

Bluepitbull13

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I must admit, I havent seen 3:35 min normal dungeon boss fight for a while. Even though I pug regularly. Seriously, I have no words. Is pugging through group finder really that bad? My tank does more dps even when I go full-tanking mode.
For instance, sometimes I raid with my casual/social guild and they kill Mage/Warrior in 3 minutes. And this is not a minmaxed group, some of guild members wear vr12 gear just for style etc.
I dont even know what to say. You're very unlucky with pugs, @coolmodi , I'd just stop using that damn grouping tool if I were you.

Dude, I've pugged with full lvl'ed out Vet 16's (not battle lvled) and see them do around 2-5k dps but that's the risk of LFG in zone chat and group tool "life is like a box of chocolates". I do it for the gold key, sometimes I'm blessed and my guildies show enough interest to run the pledge and we home run the hell out of it but when I'm doing them in 5 characters and soon 6 toons I have to pug. I just don't nerd/roid rage and kick people off the group or do a wall of text on how they should play their characters and give them crap because they didn't min/max their race/class choices. I still haven't seen it like all the paranoia comments in this thread.

Cuyler

@ZOS_AlanG wrote:

There's already a very active discussion on this topic, including an explanation for the change from the Community team. To keep this discussion focused, we are locking this thread and ask that you continue it over here.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_AlanG I had a poll going there...something that isn't provided in this thread. If you guys don't want to see the numbers on the wall that's fine by me but so everyone else can see them here's the results at the time the thought police closed it. Aren't you guys even curious the real data behind this? What's the point of having polls here again?!

***GROUP DAMAGE ADDONS - Yes or No?*** 108 votes Duration ~60 min
Yes - Please explain
68% 74 votes
No - Please explain
24% 26 votes
I came for the sweetrolls (I don't care either way)
7% 8 votes

redspecter23

I'm sorry to hear about the decision from ZoS to bury this addon. I've only had it active for about a week but have found it fantastic. I agree with others that if it has to be removed then an opt in option would be the best solution.

With so many real bugs and balance issues, it's disappointing that any dev time is being spent on destroying what could be a very positive addition to the game.

Xjcon

Cuyler wrote: »

@ZOS_AlanG wrote:

There's already a very active discussion on this topic, including an explanation for the change from the Community team. To keep this discussion focused, we are locking this thread and ask that you continue it over here.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_AlanG I had a poll going there...something that isn't provided in this thread. If you guys don't want to see the numbers on the wall that's fine by me but so everyone else can see them here's the results at the time the thought police closed it. Aren't you guys even curious the real data behind this? What's the point of having polls here again?!

***GROUP DAMAGE ADDONS - Yes or No?*** 108 votes
Yes - Please explain
68% 74 votes
No - Please explain
24% 26 votes
I came for the sweetrolls (I don't care either way)
7% 8 votes

They closed your poll? Meh. It's too bad.

Not to supprise by the outcome tho.