Spy Addon Group Damage

TalonShina

NBrookus wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Or I could say : I wonder why you would PUG at all if you are so fearful of being told your damage output is low /trollface

Because the people most likely to have low DPS numbers are new players without guilds or regular friends online and have to PUG if they want to do content?

{removed irrelevant personal info}

14 pages ago, I liked Group Damage. Now I'm starting to be convinced by the comments on this thread that overall this is something that might be more toxic for the community than helpful.

See I'm with you I am neither for nor against it. My husband uses it not really to "teach people" but more for himself as a guide and because he was getting "oh you play that, that DPS sucks" and then he would out DPS the person that said that.

For me if you want to use it fine but I don't like the attitude of well I want to help players. That isn't why you are using the addon most of the time. And most of the time in previous games where I have seen this the help isn't help it's talking down on another player in an I'm better tone and if you want to be better listen to me.

I see it in all situations DPS/TANK/HEALS it's why for a long time I didn't want to be a healer or support like class in MMOs even though I enjoyed the role mostly because PUGs suck the fun out of it if you make one mistake or if they make mistake but don't want to admit their fault.

coolmodi

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If you know your DPS is low/too low, and for whatever reason you cannot make it even slightly better, you could just they that openly to the people you group with, whether in guild or in PUGs, so that they know what to expect. I fail to understand why you need an addon for that.

If everyone would do that then nobody would have any problem with this addon to begin with, after all it couldn't show anything people didn't know before in that case
That's why I just can't take people claiming it's "personal information" or whatever seriously, if they don't lie about their performance to get into groups how could it be personal? The group should know it before this addon already, right? And if they know it before why should they insult/flame/kick you because of the addon?

And please, in groupfinder dungeons probably nearly all people just wouldn't care as long as the group is working and can clear the dungeon, and if it's not then the addon is not the problem. It may prevent disbanding the whole group though.

Enodoc wrote: »

Something that is not sanctioned is illegitimate.

How many years will I get?

anitajoneb17_ESO

coolmodi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If you know your DPS is low/too low, and for whatever reason you cannot make it even slightly better, you could just they that openly to the people you group with, whether in guild or in PUGs, so that they know what to expect. I fail to understand why you need an addon for that.

If everyone would do that then nobody would have any problem with this addon to begin with, after all it couldn't show anything people didn't know before in that case
That's why I just can't take people claiming it's "personal information" or whatever seriously, if they don't lie about their performance to get into groups how could it be personal? The group should know it before this addon already, right? And if they know it before why should they insult/flame/kick you because of the addon?

And please, in groupfinder dungeons probably nearly all people just wouldn't care as long as the group is working and can clear the dungeon, and if it's not then the addon is not the problem. It may prevent disbanding the whole group though.

Enodoc wrote: »

Something that is not sanctioned is illegitimate.

How many years will I get?

@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character. So you don't know how people may behave and do behave once they reach the competitive endgame level, have no "content" left to "beat" and start competing against each other.

Nice people don't need this addon to be nice and not-nice people don't need to be given extra tools to annoy others. The only ones who could possibly benefit from your addon are high-end progressing guilds, and looking at the comments in this thread, there is no consensus within them : some of them find it useful (but mostly to filter out achievement leechers), some find it useless, some find it technically unreliable and some find it rightout toxic.

As already said, the DPS requirements are NOT high for 95% of the game's content, and you don't need an addon to find out if DPS is sufficient or not. It only serves the purpose of "hunting lowbies" and pointing fingers at individuals.

.

actosh

U all know that ftc does exactly the same if all ppl in the grp run ftc ^^.
For me and my guild we all have to say we like it, to improve a bit more and more.

The ones that are cryin in here are the ones that want to get carried through hard content where they do *** dps, like in vet icp or vwgt. U will get kicked either way if your dps is bad, so easy to spot that. But we all know that zos gives a *** about the ppl that want to improve and just caters the ones that fell attacked if u tell them somethin bout their dps.

To bad that eso is unable to let act (advanced combat tracker) do that job in eso. I´m used to such tools in each mmo i´ve played and like i said, bad dps will get kicked after we try to help them, but if they refuse to and say everythin is fine, well go and *** up another grp.

For daylie pledges u dont need that much dps, and everybody likes to help, but yeah, keep on cryin.
There will always be ways to spot if you lie about your dps or do no dps at all.

Sidenote: I do pretty good dps on my stam dk and in pledges we often take not so expirienced players with us, cause i KNOW that i can do a bit more dps than them and so they can learn how to get better without havin to worry bout their dps at that moment.

Woeler

Vangy wrote: »

Don't assume you speak for the player base or the developer and allow everyone to have their say!

I think the highest level of hypocrisy has just been reached.

Cuyler

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you.

Oh we understand you. We simply don't agree with you or your fearmongering.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

It only serves the purpose of "hunting lowbies" and pointing fingers at individuals.

This is your very narrow scope of opinion.

Jaeysa

coolmodi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Something that is not sanctioned is illegitimate.

How many years will I get?

I think it's more you just can't inherit

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

...
@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character. So you don't know how people may behave and do behave once they reach the competitive endgame level, have no "content" left to "beat" and start competing against each other.

Nice people don't need this addon to be nice and not-nice people don't need to be given extra tools to annoy others. The only ones who could possibly benefit from your addon are high-end progressing guilds, and looking at the comments in this thread, there is no consensus within them : some of them find it useful (but mostly to filter out achievement leechers), some find it useless, some find it technically unreliable and some find it rightout toxic.

As already said, the DPS requirements are NOT high for 95% of the game's content, and you don't need an addon to find out if DPS is sufficient or not. It only serves the purpose of "hunting lowbies" and pointing fingers at individuals. .

You say this, but it's for the most part untrue. I've seen more people use this kind of add-on by far to go, 'hey, is there a reason you're only doing 5% of the DPS'? Hyperbole yes, but not by much. You will get people who use it to go, 'you're not good enough to play with me'. And sometimes they're right. I don't see it to be a good thing to skirt by with subpar damage when doing group content because it effects more people than just me. Maybe you're good with spending an hour and a half bashing your head against a boss that you can't defeat because of enrage timers. I'm not, and this add-on can point to 'maybe there's a problem' in the first wipe or so.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Jaeysa wrote: »

You say this, but it's for the most part untrue. I've seen more people use this kind of add-on by far to go, 'hey, is there a reason you're only doing 5% of the DPS'? Hyperbole yes, but not by much. You will get people who use it to go, 'you're not good enough to play with me'. And sometimes they're right. I don't see it to be a good thing to skirt by with subpar damage when doing group content because it effects more people than just me. Maybe you're good with spending an hour and a half bashing your head against a boss that you can't defeat because of enrage timers. I'm not, and this add-on can point to 'maybe there's a problem' in the first wipe or so.

Sure, we look at things from different points of view and we have different priorities. I disagree with you but your position is honest and valid, no problem with that.

Vangy

Woeler wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Don't assume you speak for the player base or the developer and allow everyone to have their say!

I think the highest level of hypocrisy has just been reached.

And heeeees back. Knew you couldn't resist. Again you should re-read everything. Note words such as seems, remains, should etc etc. I knew you had a problem with math but it seems you have a problem with English too. All those words outlined suggest something called an opinion.

Cuyler wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Removing this function from the game is better for the community, period. It's just that way. I'd rather see it go. The hardcore community (including me) that "needs" such a thing is small, really, really small. Besides, requiring someone to post with FTC isn't that big of a deal.

And this is coming from a hardcore raider of Beyond Infinity.

I can't comment on what is best for the entire community. I don't have enough data to do so. What I can comment on is the experience in my community, which includes 100s of players ranging from hardcore to the extreme casual. all the feedback has been positive (so far). Assumptions drawn about "massive carebear" populations, are just that, assumptions.

Based again on my experience since the addon's release is that the population of "extreme don't spy on me carebears" is just as small as the hardcore population and that it's entirely possible there is a massive group of casuals who are neither for or against this addon. That's to say they could care less about numbers but are open minded to advice.

^Also this guy gets it.

As far as I see youre one of the only ones stamping your feet refusing to acknowledge that it is a possibility that most people seem okay with this addon. People care more about nerf Wb nerf cloak nerf shields then this addon. When I see 100s of posts wanting this addon gone I'll admit defeat, but till then, Wah Wah.

Bluepitbull13

Vangy wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Removing this function from the game is better for the community, period. It's just that way. I'd rather see it go. The hardcore community (including me) that "needs" such a thing is small, really, really small. Besides, requiring someone to post with FTC isn't that big of a deal.

And this is coming from a hardcore raider of Beyond Infinity.

I can't comment on what is best for the entire community. I don't have enough data to do so. What I can comment on is the experience in my community, which includes 100s of players ranging from hardcore to the extreme casual. all the feedback has been positive (so far). Assumptions drawn about "massive carebear" populations, are just that, assumptions.

Based again on my experience since the addon's release is that the population of "extreme don't spy on me carebears" is just as small as the hardcore population and that it's entirely possible there is a massive group of casuals who are neither for or against this addon. That's to say they could care less about numbers but are open minded to advice.

Also^

As far as I see youre one of the only ones stamping your feet refusing to acknowledge that it is a possibility that most people seem okay with this addon. People care more about nerf Wb nerf cloak nerf shields then this addon. When I see 100s of posts wanting this addon gone I'll admit defeat, but till then, Wah Wah.

Cuyler is on your side, lol

anitajoneb17_ESO

Vangy wrote: »

When I see 100s of posts wanting this addon gone I'll admit defeat, but till then, Wah Wah.

Defeat ?? Another one who sees an open forum discussion like a "fight"... /facepalm.

Anyhow that's not going to happen if you keep on trying to get this thread closed. Please let people speak up.

.

KallistaBlackheart

i am adding my name to the list of players who support this addon.
i am not a snobby elitist, and as of yet i am not even elite at eso and i have played since closed beta. (i am working on the elite status for both my main, a tank, and my main alt a dps.) i would like to think an addon such as this is not needed but from many years of playing many mmo's at both casual and competitive levels i understand that the opposite is true. it is also true that information such as this provides can be used in a negative way. most tools that provide information can be used negatively. before addon walking into a pug dungeon was often frustrating, still is, but now i can know why. i can know, as a tank, who is not pulling their own weight and ask as to why. i can also, as a dps, see how much better somebody of the same class is and ask why. as a tank i can also look at the heals and see if they are going to be able to actually heal through a boss, hint most i have run with can. i can also see if, with their hps numbers, i can do silly things like stand in the fire and keep boss from moving so as to make the fight faster. would i kick somebody for not being "elite" no. would i kick somebody for being so pathetically low dps in content that needs good average dps, yes.

as to the concerns over privacy.... um no. lol. wow. i have worked with a few organizations that handle privacy (sorry i do not wish to go into detail about what i do for a living etc) those making the privacy argument have shown a real lack of understanding about what privacy is and when you have reasonable expectations to said privacy.

Vangy

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Removing this function from the game is better for the community, period. It's just that way. I'd rather see it go. The hardcore community (including me) that "needs" such a thing is small, really, really small. Besides, requiring someone to post with FTC isn't that big of a deal.

And this is coming from a hardcore raider of Beyond Infinity.

I can't comment on what is best for the entire community. I don't have enough data to do so. What I can comment on is the experience in my community, which includes 100s of players ranging from hardcore to the extreme casual. all the feedback has been positive (so far). Assumptions drawn about "massive carebear" populations, are just that, assumptions.

Based again on my experience since the addon's release is that the population of "extreme don't spy on me carebears" is just as small as the hardcore population and that it's entirely possible there is a massive group of casuals who are neither for or against this addon. That's to say they could care less about numbers but are open minded to advice.

Also^

As far as I see youre one of the only ones stamping your feet refusing to acknowledge that it is a possibility that most people seem okay with this addon. People care more about nerf Wb nerf cloak nerf shields then this addon. When I see 100s of posts wanting this addon gone I'll admit defeat, but till then, Wah Wah.

Cuyler is on your side, lol

I know. Read my whole post please.... Was quoting cuyler to substantiate a point I was making. Edited my initial post to prevent misunderstandings.

MisterBigglesworth

@timidobserver @Cuyler
During beta the API was much more open, capable of displaying castbars on abilities, both for yourself and other players, as well as enemy stamina and magicka levels. Check out some of the very early Tamriel Foundry vids on youtube to see how castbars looked.

The reason it was restricted is that you could theoretically set something up to auto-interrupt when an enemy cast bar was detected. (or at the very least it would give you a significant advantage over those who weren't using addons)

I also distinctly remember the IMMERSSSHHUN crowd at time (sub reddit) cheering for the restrictions, saying stuff like "nobody has the right to see how much magicka I have but me!"

Vangy

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

When I see 100s of posts wanting this addon gone I'll admit defeat, but till then, Wah Wah.

Defeat ?? Another one who sees an open forum discussion like a "fight"... /facepalm.

Anyhow that's not going to happen if you keep on trying to get this thread closed. Please let people speak up.

.

here let me help you. Pay attention to the bolded part.

Defeat:

1. Win a victory over (Someone) in a battle or contest; overcome or beat ~ garibaldi defeated the Neapolitan army.
2. Prevent someone from achieving an aim~ Someone's understanding of a post was defeated by their lack of English vocabulary.
3. Reject or block ( a motion or proposal) ~ the amendment was defeated. The proposal to keep the addon was defeated.
4. Be impossible for someone to understand. ~ your lack of vocabulary defeats me

Synonyms for defeat: beat, conquer, vanquish, thwart, reject, overthrow, dismiss etc etc

Time and again you keep proving you have a very narrow mindset. /face palm. Also English.... It pays to think about context.

If it helps what I meant to say with "defeat" was ill rest my case to keep the addon. Ie: my motion to keep this addon was defeated(dismissed/overthrown) by unreasonable whining on the forums.

Disclaimer: The example sentences in the above post are not representative of anyone nor directed at anyone. They are merely there to point out the different ways in which the word defeat may be used. The above poster will not be liable if a party gets "offended" by reading said post.

maxjapank

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

When I see 100s of posts wanting this addon gone I'll admit defeat, but till then, Wah Wah.

Defeat ?? Another one who sees an open forum discussion like a "fight"... /facepalm.

Anyhow that's not going to happen if you keep on trying to get this thread closed. Please let people speak up.

.

here let me help you. Pay attention to the bolded part.

Defeat:

1. Win a victory over (Someone) in a battle or contest; overcome or beat ~ garibaldi defeated the Neapolitan army.
2. Prevent someone from achieving an aim~ Her understanding of a post was defeated by her lack of English vocabulary.
3. Reject or block ( a motion or proposal) ~ the amendment was defeated. The proposal to keep the addon was defeated.
4. Be impossible for someone to understand. ~ your lack of vocabulary defeats me

Synonyms for defeat: beat, conquer, vanquish, thwart, reject, overthrow, dismiss etc etc

Time and again you keep proving you have a very narrow mindset. /face palm. Also English.... It pays to think about context.

If it helps what I meant to say with "defeat" was ill rest my case to keep the addon. Ie: my motion to keep this addon was defeated(dismissed/overthrown) by Wah Wah cry babies.

Disclaimer: The example sentences in the above post are not representative of anyone nor directed at anyone. They are merely there to point out the different ways in which the word defeat may be used. The above poster will not be liable if a party gets butt hurt by reading said post.

And now back to the discussion at hand....without derogatory terms. Didn't you read the moderators post? It's just a few posts up.

Vangy

maxjapank wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

When I see 100s of posts wanting this addon gone I'll admit defeat, but till then, Wah Wah.

Defeat ?? Another one who sees an open forum discussion like a "fight"... /facepalm.

Anyhow that's not going to happen if you keep on trying to get this thread closed. Please let people speak up.

.

here let me help you. Pay attention to the bolded part.

Defeat:

1. Win a victory over (Someone) in a battle or contest; overcome or beat ~ garibaldi defeated the Neapolitan army.
2. Prevent someone from achieving an aim~ Her understanding of a post was defeated by her lack of English vocabulary.
3. Reject or block ( a motion or proposal) ~ the amendment was defeated. The proposal to keep the addon was defeated.
4. Be impossible for someone to understand. ~ your lack of vocabulary defeats me

Synonyms for defeat: beat, conquer, vanquish, thwart, reject, overthrow, dismiss etc etc

Time and again you keep proving you have a very narrow mindset. /face palm. Also English.... It pays to think about context.

If it helps what I meant to say with "defeat" was ill rest my case to keep the addon. Ie: my motion to keep this addon was defeated(dismissed/overthrown) by Wah Wah cry babies.

Disclaimer: The example sentences in the above post are not representative of anyone nor directed at anyone. They are merely there to point out the different ways in which the word defeat may be used. The above poster will not be liable if a party gets butt hurt by reading said post.

And now back to the discussion at hand....without derogatory terms. Didn't you read the moderators post? It's just a few posts up.

I did. You should too. Maybe you should stop quoting my posts and baiting me. Also after some consideration I have reworded my previous post to ensure no one else gets.. *cough cough* offended.

maxjapank

Vangy wrote: »

...after some consideration I have reworded my previous post to ensure no one else gets...offended.

Gave you an "awesome" just now. Thanks!

Vangy

maxjapank wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

...after some consideration I have reworded my previous post to ensure no one else gets...offended.

Gave you an "awesome" just now. Thanks!

here have an awesome too.

timidobserver

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

@timidobserver @Cuyler
During beta the API was much more open, capable of displaying castbars on abilities, both for yourself and other players, as well as enemy stamina and magicka levels. Check out some of the very early Tamriel Foundry vids on youtube to see how castbars looked.

The reason it was restricted is that you could theoretically set something up to auto-interrupt when an enemy cast bar was detected. (or at the very least it would give you a significant advantage over those who weren't using addons)

I also distinctly remember the IMMERSSSHHUN crowd at time (sub reddit) cheering for the restrictions, saying stuff like "nobody has the right to see how much magicka I have but me!"

FOLLOW-UP: RECENT CHANGES TO API ZOS_PaulSage mod 3:01PM edited 3:01PM in Psijic Developer Discussion

As many of you know, there has been a lot of discussion over recent changes to the API. As you are probably aware, we recently publicly clarified our overall UI modding strategy, and our reasons for making changes to the API. To reiterate, our goal was: to keep the playing field level for our competitive environments.

The initial release of our API was intentionally wide open in order to test the boundaries of what could be done – which is exactly what happened. We saw things which necessitated that we change the API. When we made the changes to restrict our API, our goal was to make sure you couldn’t see more information about your enemies than we intended. But we also found that certain events could be used to allow add-ons and macro programs, used in conjunction, to do many things which otherwise should require player skill. For example, it was trivial to create an add-on “listen” for a debuff, and be able to remove this debuff automatically – or to create an add-on that allowed group members’ adds-ons to report their status through chat allowing party members with the same add-on to automatically cast heals.

In order to keep the playing field as level as we could for competitive PvE and competitive PvP at ship, we removed the ability of the API to access this functionality. We left as much of the API open as we felt we could. If later we feel changes or additional functionality is a good thing without damaging the overall game, some features may be re-enabled. We do not want players writing scripts that play their character for them, and that was the direction ESO UI modding was headed.

Our changes to the API were exclusively about keeping the playing field as level as we could in a competitive environment, not about keeping the game immersive or trying to make sure people could not see numbers. However, it is certainly true we don’t natively add icons to show buffs and display timers. You might ask why?

First, we feel a clean and unobtrusive UI is a key part of The Elder Scrolls Online. We have worked to keep many things off the screen that were not absolutely necessary. As an example, we have broken down buffs and debuffs into a few key effects. If you puncture armor, you can see that overlayed on the health bar of your opponent as a “cracked” graphic. If you or your opponent is powered up, you will see a bright aura around the health bar. If you are suffering from a DOT, you will see arrows representing a decrease overlayed on your health bar. Further, we have animation, sounds, and particle effects in world to give you further clues as to what is happening. We believe these actually represent your state and that of your opponents much more clearly than icons. But why not have icons?

To put it simply, icons are for another game with different controls and a different purpose. The controls of our game naturally tie mouse movement and looking around the world together in a mechanism reminiscent of previous Elder Scrolls games. We don’t have a free mouse where you can get information about what the icons represent by hovering over them in the heat of battle. Also, showing timers through icons isn’t what we wanted. Part of the skill in ESO is situational awareness and seeing when events are happening in the world and in some cases on the UI. Another reason we don’t show buff/debuff icons is that icons appearing and disappearing on the screen looked bad, especially considering ESO has shorter duration debuffs and buffs that would be constantly appearing and disappearing.

Finally, our UI and game isn’t built just for experts, min-maxers, and number crunchers. Our UI is built to have broad appeal while still providing necessary information to be successful. Could more be done to improve the information? I think so. But every improvement has to be weighed carefully against other upcoming features, improvements, or new content added to the game. We are constantly working to improve ESO – which will continue as long as people are playing the game – and we will continue to iterate on the UI and information presented to you.

Lately we’ve been quieter on the boards and in public as we head towards launch – but know that we are always listening and reading. We very much appreciate constructive feedback. We are looking very forward to seeing you in Tamriel on Sunday.

Yup, I was here for Beta. In the spoiler is what Paul Sage posted in response to the gutting of the API.

The addon API was gutted about 11 days before the game launched. Above is the post that Paul Sage made after the API was gutted He says that making sure that people cannot see numbers is was not the goal of the decision. It had nothing to do with DPS privacy. The person that wrote this is no longer determining the direction of the game, so I definitely hope that @ZOS_RichLambert may be giving this another look. It is worth noting that they have already reevaluated part of what Paul Sage says since they are adding floating combat text.

This addon doesn't actually violate any of the reasons Paul Sage gave for gutting the API, so hopefully that will impact the decision.

wookikiller95

I like this addon cause i can tell my Friends that should do more dps and help them

Anyway if u have a realy low dps the other People will see it anyway... With or without this addon

coolmodi

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character.

@anitajoneb17_ESO: I've yet to see an argument against an addon like this that isn't fearmongering that ingores all positive sides, or something on the lines of: "I want to play in a soccer team but I don't want them to see how I play!"

I also played end-game content when V10 was still max level, and a bit into craglorn. I cleared all vet-dungeons and also played trials. I also played other MMOs, I know the difference between people who are just bad or don't know how to play, and people who don't want/care to be good but still want to play content that needs you to be somewhat good.

The one often ask how to get better on their own, or just don't go into groups that expect them to be better than they are, the others just don't care for other people and abuse them to reach their goal.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nice people don't need this addon to be nice and not-nice people don't need to be given extra tools to annoy others. The only ones who could possibly benefit from your addon are high-end progressing guilds [...] find it useful (but mostly to filter out achievement leechers) [...] some find it technically unreliable and some find it rightout toxic.

• Yes, this addon doesn't change people. Also once again you ignore all positive sides, not only hardcore players benefit here. Everybody who cares about not holding his team back or helping it benefits here. Be it in a hardcore guild or in LFG non-vet dungeons. It doesn't matter.
• Filtering out "leechers" is also a good thing, people have the right not to play with those people, the game making it impossible by forcing you to just believe is just stupid. Why is supporting those people (by removing this addon) ok, but supporting all other people is not?
• It's much more reliable then FTC sharing or even just blindly believing all the *** numbers people tell to get into groups/guilds.
• It's not toxic, people may be, and lazy people who abuse their group are too.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As already said, the DPS requirements are NOT high for 95% of the game's content, and you don't need an addon to find out if DPS is sufficient or not. It only serves the purpose of "hunting lowbies" and pointing fingers at individuals.

95%? Even non-vet dungeons can become hard to impossible with too bad DDs. Happened to me quite a lot already. Are you talking about solo content? The addon doesn't affect you in any form there. And yes, even without the addon you'll see that dps isn't enoug when bosses take awfully long or are just impossible to do.

• Without the addon you now disband the group or hope the DDs change something, tell you the truth, or you kick both...
• With the addon you now actually see WHY dps is low, WHICH player is the problem, and HOW* you may change it WHITHOUT disbanding or maybe even kicking anybody.

If people are so bad that this addon would cause them to be "pointed at", then they are so bad that the group just doesn't work right because of them. And "hunting lowbies"? That wasn't even a problem in WoW, and I played that A LOT some years ago. Even there people would tell low levels or obvious new players what they could do better, they were kicked if they didn't even try or just ignored the group though. Same with people who just used auto-attack and let the group do the rest.

People beeing kicked just for not having high enough dps compared to the rest only happened very rarely, mostly with people who wanted to rush dungeons, or people who somehow got in a group for (insert hard dungeon here) while obviously not ready for that.

Edit: *And that would only become easier to do with adding more comprehensive statistics to the addon.

TorvenTool

On the other hand I love the Magicka DK using a flame staff als melee weapon in PVP.

Tankqull

coolmodi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character.

@anitajoneb17_ESO: I've yet to see an argument against an addon like this that isn't fearmongering that ingores all positive sides, or something on the lines of: "I want to play in a soccer team but I don't want them to see how I play!"

all this addon provides is (by using your analogy) the information of how fast you run the 100m. it does not provide that you had 3 assists the last time you guys played, it does not provide your ability t0 trick your opponents on a dime, it does not provide the information of 100% tackles won by you nor the amount of tackles...

all it does is providing an in most cases overrated value.

Vangy

Tankqull wrote: »

coolmodi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character.

@anitajoneb17_ESO: I've yet to see an argument against an addon like this that isn't fearmongering that ingores all positive sides, or something on the lines of: "I want to play in a soccer team but I don't want them to see how I play!"

all this addon provides is (by using your analogy) the information of how fast you run the 100m. it does not provide that you had 3 assists the last time you guys played, it does not provide your ability t0 trick your opponents on a dime, it does not provide the information of 100% tackles won by you nor the amount of tackles...

all it does is providing an in most cases overrated value.

You're absolutely right that this addon needs to provide even more information. The first step to that is not getting this addon shutdown before it can have a chance to be developed into a comprehensive group damage tracker and not just overall group Dps. But as it stands it at least shows us the total number of goals and who scored the goals. Yes it dosent track assists or tackles etc but without it all we have is goals you have scored. Some information is better than 0 information.

Jaeysa

Tankqull wrote: »

coolmodi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character.

@anitajoneb17_ESO: I've yet to see an argument against an addon like this that isn't fearmongering that ingores all positive sides, or something on the lines of: "I want to play in a soccer team but I don't want them to see how I play!"

all this addon provides is (by using your analogy) the information of how fast you run the 100m. it does not provide that you had 3 assists the last time you guys played, it does not provide your ability t0 trick your opponents on a dime, it does not provide the information of 100% tackles won by you nor the amount of tackles...

all it does is providing an in most cases overrated value.

And if you don't let it grow, it won't get to the point where it shows interrupts, stuns, et cetera. It would be lovely if it did(is that even possible?), but the sheer damage numbers is not useless by any means.

Tankqull

Vangy wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

coolmodi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character.

@anitajoneb17_ESO: I've yet to see an argument against an addon like this that isn't fearmongering that ingores all positive sides, or something on the lines of: "I want to play in a soccer team but I don't want them to see how I play!"

all this addon provides is (by using your analogy) the information of how fast you run the 100m. it does not provide that you had 3 assists the last time you guys played, it does not provide your ability t0 trick your opponents on a dime, it does not provide the information of 100% tackles won by you nor the amount of tackles...

all it does is providing an in most cases overrated value.

You're absolutely right that this addon needs to provide even more information. The first step to that is not getting this addon shutdown before it can have a chance to be developed into a comprehensive group damage tracker and not just overall group Dps. But as it stands it at least shows us the total number of goals and who scored the goals. Yes it dosent track assists or tackles etc but without it all we have is goals you have scored. Some information is better than 0 information.

i did not say useless, just overrated. for way to many people (as visionable in this thread) DPS is the holy grail of PvE, and e.g. thus rate NBs rather low. for me they are the perfect class, providing the best sustain, the highest dmg+heal combined possible by any class leading to 4 of them being perfectly able to finish any 4 man content with ease(and extreamly quick), while e.g. 4 DKs(percieved as the highest non ult related DPS source) will struggle realy soon.

on the other hand i doubt this addon will survive as the sheear amount of infos delivered currently by the servers is for sure one of the reasons why pvp is so awefully lagging currently as in a high density fight the bandwith of ZOS/one server is just exceeded... thus one of the first steps to get this right is to limit the transportet information from absolutly everything to the minimum standards as shown by older MMOs ... wich in return will cripple this addon.

helediron

This addon is a useful tool and i support it. I remember @coolmodi from beta and early game. so he is not unexperienced noob, far from it. Welcome back!

Usually it is the lack of numbers, lack of knowledge that hinders progress. This addon has spread like a wildfire among us, because we see it's usefulness. It has not caused society breakdown.

Suggestions:
- Add a toggle visible command and keybind.
- Adjust the height to groupsize. Maybe a small button to switch between 4/12 size?

Tankqull

helediron wrote: »

This addon is a useful tool and i support it. I remember @coolmodi from beta and early game. so he is not unexperienced noob, far from it. Welcome back!

Usually it is the lack of numbers, lack of knowledge that hinders progress. This addon has spread like a wildfire among us, because we see it's usefulness. It has not caused society breakdown.

Suggestions:
- Add a toggle visible command and keybind.
- Adjust the height to groupsize. Maybe a small button to switch between 4/12 size?

perfect example of people judging addons not knowing what they are capable of... (its allready implemented)

Vangy

Tankqull wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

coolmodi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@coolmodi : I've explained all this over all this topic several times. Now if you really don't want to understand, I cannot force you. I'm afraid also that you are a little bit unexperienced with the game community, you said yourself that you have no endgame character.

@anitajoneb17_ESO: I've yet to see an argument against an addon like this that isn't fearmongering that ingores all positive sides, or something on the lines of: "I want to play in a soccer team but I don't want them to see how I play!"

all this addon provides is (by using your analogy) the information of how fast you run the 100m. it does not provide that you had 3 assists the last time you guys played, it does not provide your ability t0 trick your opponents on a dime, it does not provide the information of 100% tackles won by you nor the amount of tackles...

all it does is providing an in most cases overrated value.

You're absolutely right that this addon needs to provide even more information. The first step to that is not getting this addon shutdown before it can have a chance to be developed into a comprehensive group damage tracker and not just overall group Dps. But as it stands it at least shows us the total number of goals and who scored the goals. Yes it dosent track assists or tackles etc but without it all we have is goals you have scored. Some information is better than 0 information.

i did not say useless, just overrated. for way to many people (as visionable in this thread) DPS is the holy grail of PvE, and e.g. thus rate NBs rather low. for me they are the perfect class, providing the best sustain, the highest dmg+heal combined possible by any class leading to 4 of them being perfectly able to finish any 4 man content with ease(and extreamly quick), while e.g. 4 DKs(percieved as the highest non ult related DPS source) will struggle realy soon.

on the other hand i doubt this addon will survive as the sheear amount of infos delivered currently by the servers is for sure one of the reasons why pvp is so awefully lagging currently as in a high density fight the bandwith of ZOS/one server is just exceeded... thus one of the first steps to get this right is to limit the transportet information from absolutly everything to the minimum standards as shown by older MMOs ... wich in return will cripple this addon.

I personally feel many nbs are missing in pve because they are too busy ganking in sewers but that's just my opinion lol. But back on topic, zos needing to get their stuff together and upgrade servers should be the solution to lag. Not limiting reasonable information that should be accessible by players. We aren't asking to track things like a persons life time healing/damage/number of vet pledged cleared etc etc. We'r just asking to let us track things that happen over let's say maybe 5-10 fights over a single trial or pledge. This to me is the basics. I don't believe a group should be kept in the dark about how its members are doing because zos can't get their servers to attain proper performance. This addon should have nothing to do with it.