Spy Addon Group Damage

Vangy

coolmodi wrote: »

@Bluepitbull13 Thanks, I still hope ZOS thinks about implementing an opt-in option.

What they basically do now is removing the unitId from combat events. Instead of guy hit buddy for x with a hammer it will become just a hammer hit with x. Don't even know what that info will be good for...

Implementing an option in the game itself to again make the Id visible on other people clients would be minimal work for ZOS, but would be the best solution for everybody.

- For people that want their data secret it would be exactly the same as it was before my addon.
- "FTC or kick" situations would become "activate sharing or kick", arguably better as not all people need the addon installed and the data says more than just dps.
- People/groups/guilds who want to use will still have the much more useful data this addon provides.

Nobody gets hurt, nobody has to fear anything, everybody wins. If they don't do it I seriously have to question their competency.

Everytime zos does something to "fix" anything, they break 10 more things. I fully expect the next patch to break everything from aui/ftc to gear/skill swap addons. Sighs...

Also if the opt in mechanism is included within the game itself, I'd also expect to see "lf1m DD dps sharing enabled for vet (insert name here)" become commonplace. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing...

maxjapank

Vangy wrote: »

coolmodi wrote: »

@Bluepitbull13 Thanks, I still hope ZOS thinks about implementing an opt-in option.

What they basically do now is removing the unitId from combat events. Instead of guy hit buddy for x with a hammer it will become just a hammer hit with x. Don't even know what that info will be good for...

Implementing an option in the game itself to again make the Id visible on other people clients would be minimal work for ZOS, but would be the best solution for everybody.

- For people that want their data secret it would be exactly the same as it was before my addon.
- "FTC or kick" situations would become "activate sharing or kick", arguably better as not all people need the addon installed and the data says more than just dps.
- People/groups/guilds who want to use will still have the much more useful data this addon provides.

Nobody gets hurt, nobody has to fear anything, everybody wins. If they don't do it I seriously have to question their competency.

Everytime zos does something to "fix" anything, they break 10 more things. I fully expect the next patch to break everything from aui/ftc to gear/skill swap addons. Sighs...

But the deer are happily grazing on their nature preserve somewhere. I bet they are no longer an endangered species.

Vangy

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Dps requirements are not a matter of opinion.

True, but the issue is that people using this addon will kick/select people not based on objective requirements, but on what they think is required. And if they think that 20K is required, they will kick people who do a respectable 15K. Do you honestly think people will go back to group finder when they have been treated this way ?

I know that sometimes a pug group might be absolutely awful.
But the addon doesnt make any difference imo... These people were acting like jerks without an addon as well, and its pretty easy to calculate another dd's dps if you know your own dps and boss' amount of hp.
Some people are just stupid. Occasionaly I'm getting kicked for being a nb tank (even when I link no-death and speedrun achievements), sometimes teammates are not happy with my dd's 18k hp (even though my dps is higher than 20k and I rarely die).

18-20k is just about right Hp imo for a dd lol. What they want u to have 24k hp?? Those people were just jerks man. Nb tanks are one of the best damage dealing tanks imo. Sap2win.

Also kicking a tank?? Given that it takes about an hour to find a pug one that's insane lol. I just add every decent tank I meet and send them a random Whisper about how fun it was to run with them. Now most of them are my regular go to people

Yeah, I know. And yeah, sap tanks are great and do not require shards.
I just wanted to say that jerks like these can find a ton of absurd reasons to kick someone or act rude, even if dps is good.

Pm me in game if ur on PC NA. I'm always on the lookout for tanks. Thyre hard to come by when I'm Organising farm runs and vICP/vwgt lol. I promise u won't get kicked. Also u will have 2 DDS that can comfortably pull 20k+ on most fights and a healer who does about half while keeping group up lol. @Vangy if ur interested.

Function

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

@ZOS_GinaBruno are you kidding me? Of all of the things wrong with this game Zenimax spent time to "fix" something that wasn't even broken? This data was beneficial to the game.

Ashtaris

I just wanted to say that I was really disappointed to see that your are effectively disabling this add-on. I've been using it for the past week or so as an evaluation tool to find out if any of our guildies need help in a particular area, including myself. I would never kick them because of low DPS, but would rather help thiem with their builds. I think a lot of times they don't realize how low their DPS is, sometimes because they don't run any kind of DPS meters themselves. So if I can see that a person needs some help, then I will do whatever I kind to make sure they get the proper gear, food, etc. Not only to help the group, but to make them feel better they are actually making a contribution. I considered this mainly as a tool and NOT a spying add-on as a few on here made it out to be.

Reverb

Ashtaris wrote: »

I just wanted to say that I was really disappointed to see that your are effectively disabling this add-on. I've been using it for the past week or so as an evaluation tool to find out if any of our guildies need help in a particular area, including myself. I would never kick them because of low DPS, but would rather help thiem with their builds. I think a lot of times they don't realize how low their DPS is, sometimes because they don't run any kind of DPS meters themselves. So if I can see that a person needs some help, then I will do whatever I kind to make sure they get the proper gear, food, etc. Not only to help the group, but to make them feel better they are actually making a contribution. I considered this mainly as a tool and NOT a spying add-on as a few on here made it out to be.

Did your guildies ask for your help?

Vangy

Reverb wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

I just wanted to say that I was really disappointed to see that your are effectively disabling this add-on. I've been using it for the past week or so as an evaluation tool to find out if any of our guildies need help in a particular area, including myself. I would never kick them because of low DPS, but would rather help thiem with their builds. I think a lot of times they don't realize how low their DPS is, sometimes because they don't run any kind of DPS meters themselves. So if I can see that a person needs some help, then I will do whatever I kind to make sure they get the proper gear, food, etc. Not only to help the group, but to make them feel better they are actually making a contribution. I considered this mainly as a tool and NOT a spying add-on as a few on here made it out to be.

Did your guildies ask for your help?

Yeah don't help people that don't ask for it. It's impolite and not required. Next time if u see Low Dps players not having a clue what thyre doing just tell them sorry you just had a Friend come and he needs the slot in party and boot. Absolutely don't offer any advice until they pm u and beg for it.

KallistaBlackheart

@coolmodi
if ZOS does continue with getting rid of this addon, is there a way to make this more like FTC? just the dps part of it. also if there is a way how hard would it be to implement a share option between the group members addons?

my thinking is a slim version of ftc that can share data and prompt when group members do not have the addon installed or sharing enabled.

asking here so others can see ways to work around this disastrous decision.

KallistaBlackheart

Vangy wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

I just wanted to say that I was really disappointed to see that your are effectively disabling this add-on. I've been using it for the past week or so as an evaluation tool to find out if any of our guildies need help in a particular area, including myself. I would never kick them because of low DPS, but would rather help thiem with their builds. I think a lot of times they don't realize how low their DPS is, sometimes because they don't run any kind of DPS meters themselves. So if I can see that a person needs some help, then I will do whatever I kind to make sure they get the proper gear, food, etc. Not only to help the group, but to make them feel better they are actually making a contribution. I considered this mainly as a tool and NOT a spying add-on as a few on here made it out to be.

Did your guildies ask for your help?

Yeah don't help people that don't ask for it. It's impolite and not required. Next time if u see Low Dps players not having a clue what they're doing just tell them sorry you just had a Friend come and he needs the slot in party and boot. Absolutely don't offer any advice until they pm u and beg for it.

exactly, even if they might not know how much better they could be doing and in doing better make their chosen guild group stronger. nope, do not help unless asked even if it means you suffer as a result. even if they might want help but do not know who or what to ask.... ....

/endsarcasm (in case anybody did not get that)

redspecter23

So if I'm understanding correctly, the proposed fix will simply remove the name of anyone other than yourself dealing damage? So if I'm in a group with 4 people I'll see my own name and 3 ?'s on the list? If I'm a dps and there is a healer and a tank in the group, I can somewhat fill in the blanks to some extent anyway.

timidobserver

redspecter23 wrote: »

So if I'm understanding correctly, the proposed fix will simply remove the name of anyone other than yourself dealing damage? So if I'm in a group with 4 people I'll see my own name and 3 ?'s on the list? If I'm a dps and there is a healer and a tank in the group, I can somewhat fill in the blanks to some extent anyway.

The way I understand it, the only thing that you'll be able to distinguish is your damage. The others will be indistinguishable from each other. So any damage that isn't yours will go into one question mark.

Vangy

timidobserver wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

So if I'm understanding correctly, the proposed fix will simply remove the name of anyone other than yourself dealing damage? So if I'm in a group with 4 people I'll see my own name and 3 ?'s on the list? If I'm a dps and there is a healer and a tank in the group, I can somewhat fill in the blanks to some extent anyway.

The way I understand it, the only thing that you'll be able to distinguish is your damage. The others will be indistinguishable from each other. So any damage that isn't yours will go into one question mark.

Hmmm then I'm actually quite okay about this. It dosent take a genius to figure out what the other dds Dps looks like considering there's almost always 1-2 members in my group who are friends. So if u notice ur doing 70% of party's Dps, it's safe to say the other dd prolly needs to be looked into.

Also on a side note this is going to do a lot more harm then good for the average player who runs total pug groups. One dd pulling 20k and other dd pulling 10 (which is a respectable number). First dd feels that he is contributing too much to total party dps and kicks second dd.

timidobserver

Vangy wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

So if I'm understanding correctly, the proposed fix will simply remove the name of anyone other than yourself dealing damage? So if I'm in a group with 4 people I'll see my own name and 3 ?'s on the list? If I'm a dps and there is a healer and a tank in the group, I can somewhat fill in the blanks to some extent anyway.

The way I understand it, the only thing that you'll be able to distinguish is your damage. The others will be indistinguishable from each other. So any damage that isn't yours will go into one question mark.

Hmmm then I'm actually quite okay about this. It dosent take a genius to figure out what the other dds Dps looks like considering there's almost always 1-2 members in my group who are friends. So if u notice ur doing 70% of party's Dps, it's safe to say the other dd prolly needs to be looked into.

Also on a side note this is going to do a lot more harm then good for the average player who runs total pug groups. One dd pulling 20k and other dd pulling 10 (which is a respectable number). First dd feels that he is contributing too much to total party dps and kicks second dd.

I was just responding to the api question. I don't really have any desire to actually discuss this with you beyond clearing up that technical detail.

Vangy

timidobserver wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

So if I'm understanding correctly, the proposed fix will simply remove the name of anyone other than yourself dealing damage? So if I'm in a group with 4 people I'll see my own name and 3 ?'s on the list? If I'm a dps and there is a healer and a tank in the group, I can somewhat fill in the blanks to some extent anyway.

The way I understand it, the only thing that you'll be able to distinguish is your damage. The others will be indistinguishable from each other. So any damage that isn't yours will go into one question mark.

Hmmm then I'm actually quite okay about this. It dosent take a genius to figure out what the other dds Dps looks like considering there's almost always 1-2 members in my group who are friends. So if u notice ur doing 70% of party's Dps, it's safe to say the other dd prolly needs to be looked into.

Also on a side note this is going to do a lot more harm then good for the average player who runs total pug groups. One dd pulling 20k and other dd pulling 10 (which is a respectable number). First dd feels that he is contributing too much to total party dps and kicks second dd.

I was just responding to the api question. I don't really have any desire to actually discuss this with you beyond clearing up that technical detail.

I was merely quoting that I'd be okay with said technical detail that you explained (thanks!) I also have no desire to discuss anything with someone who dosent want to discuss it seeing as there are like another 100 people in this thread.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Vangy wrote: »

Yeah don't help people that don't ask for it. It's impolite and not required. Next time if u see Low Dps players not having a clue what thyre doing just tell them sorry you just had a Friend come and he needs the slot in party and boot. Absolutely don't offer any advice until they pm u and beg for it.

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

exactly, even if they might not know how much better they could be doing and in doing better make their chosen guild group stronger. nope, do not help unless asked even if it means you suffer as a result. even if they might want help but do not know who or what to ask.... ....
/endsarcasm (in case anybody did not get that)

Actually, it should read "do not give advice to people who did not ask for it". It is a basic and imho universal rule in communicating with other people in general. May vary depending on cultural background, but practically, it's both a lack of respect and a waste of time. They're not going to follow your "advice" unless they 1) think they need some 2) have acknowledged you as a reliable advice giver.

I understand that some people are shy but c'mon, it's really easy, at least in ESO, to ask someone "I have a build similar to yours, how do you do this or that ?"

I know quite a few people who absolutely refuse to join a guild for fear of hearing advice/orders all the time from everyone. And in my guild, rule of thumb is actually to NOT give advice to anyone who doesn't ask for it. Instead, I encourage everyone to hang out in Teamspeak even if they're not currently running in a group, because they learn a lot by just listening to others running or to their endless theorycrafting conversations.

.

Vangy

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yeah don't help people that don't ask for it. It's impolite and not required. Next time if u see Low Dps players not having a clue what thyre doing just tell them sorry you just had a Friend come and he needs the slot in party and boot. Absolutely don't offer any advice until they pm u and beg for it.

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

exactly, even if they might not know how much better they could be doing and in doing better make their chosen guild group stronger. nope, do not help unless asked even if it means you suffer as a result. even if they might want help but do not know who or what to ask.... ....
/endsarcasm (in case anybody did not get that)

Actually, it should read "do not give advice to people who did not ask for it". It is a basic and imho universal rule in communicating with other people in general. May vary depending on cultural background, but practically, it's both a lack of respect and a waste of time. They're not going to follow your "advice" unless they 1) think they need some 2) have acknowledged you as a reliable advice giver.

I understand that some people are shy but c'mon, it's really easy, at least in ESO, to ask someone "I have a build similar to yours, how do you do this or that ?"

I know quite a few people who absolutely refuse to join a guild for fear of hearing advice/orders all the time from everyone. And in my guild, rule of thumb is actually to NOT give advice to anyone who doesn't ask for it. Instead, I encourage everyone to hang out in Teamspeak even if they're not currently running in a group, because they learn a lot by just listening to others running or to their endless theorycrafting conversations.

.

I totally get your pov. And I respect that completely. But sadly I don't have the time or patience to wipe at a boss 10 times before someone feels the need to ask for advice. So if I'm left with the alternative of dropping group or kicking said player.

No offence intended. Just my opinion on what goes through my head when there's a really bad player in the group. I try my best to ask them nicely what thyre running in their build and if they need pointers but like you've mentioned some people just don't want anyone interfering with their gameplay. I get that, but that just means imma have to kick you to find someone who can do a better job

Edit: also I'm a little confused here as to what you meant by replacing the word help with advice. In this context they mean the same thing to me. Or are you trying to explain some other scenario which i misunderstood?

oibam

When someone joins a group his dps and hps is no privacy anymore - since he is now part of a team.

Why do you force us to deal dps as high as possible (vWGT, vIP, vMSA - and sorry, your interpretation of mechanics = dps) but refuse the tools we need for group progressing?


No one needs this addon to blame other players.

Please make the concerning API access optional, set off by default, but do not kill the idea of this great addon.

coolmodi

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

@coolmodi
if ZOS does continue with getting rid of this addon, is there a way to make this more like FTC? just the dps part of it. also if there is a way how hard would it be to implement a share option between the group members addons?

@KallistaBlackheart There is no real way in the game to transmit data between clients like in some other games, FTC just abuses map pings for it, which is not really what they were made for. I don't know what the limitations for that are, but don't expect more than dps ever beeing shared that way.

So as long as FTC works I don't think there's any real sense in basically making the same thing again.

timidobserver wrote: »

The way I understand it, the only thing that you'll be able to distinguish is your damage. The others will be indistinguishable from each other. So any damage that isn't yours will go into one question mark.

@redspecter23 @timidobserver @Vangy Not even that, right now I assing names and group info of units indirectly by matching it to known IDs. ZOS will remove the IDs if you aren't involved, like it is with names already.

In other words you will see 2 things:
-Yourself
-EVERYTHING ELSE (players and NPCs) in visual range combined.

Not even group/player/NPC will be distinguishable anymore, as I do both via the ID.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Actually, it should read "do not give advice to people who did not ask for it". It is a basic and imho universal rule in communicating with other people in general. May vary depending on cultural background, but practically, it's both a lack of respect and a waste of time. They're not going to follow your "advice" unless they 1) think they need some 2) have acknowledged you as a reliable advice giver.

I understand that some people are shy but c'mon, it's really easy, at least in ESO, to ask someone "I have a build similar to yours, how do you do this or that ?"

I know quite a few people who absolutely refuse to join a guild for fear of hearing advice/orders all the time from everyone. And in my guild, rule of thumb is actually to NOT give advice to anyone who doesn't ask for it. Instead, I encourage everyone to hang out in Teamspeak even if they're not currently running in a group, because they learn a lot by just listening to others running or to their endless theorycrafting conversations.

.

I totally get your pov. And I respect that completely. But sadly I don't have the time or patience to wipe at a boss 10 times before someone feels the need to ask for advice. So if I'm left with the alternative of dropping group or kicking said player.

No offence intended. Just my opinion on what goes through my head when there's a really bad player in the group. I try my best to ask them nicely what thyre running in their build and if they need pointers but like you've mentioned some people just don't want anyone interfering with their gameplay. I get that, but that just means imma have to kick you to find someone who can do a better job

Edit: also I'm a little confused here as to what you meant by replacing the word help with advice. In this context they mean the same thing to me. Or are you trying to explain some other scenario which i misunderstood?

In my understanding, A helping B means that A is providing something to B (which B might or might not need, might or might not have asked for, but that doesn't aim at changing B or questioning who he is or the choices he made).
A giving advice to B is not A providing something to B, but trying to *change* B's behaviour so that B doesn't need to be provided with that "something" anymore.
That's why advice is more delicate to deal with than help.

In the context of the game, carrying a teammate through a dungeon is helping. Advising him about his builds or skills is meant to change him (so that he doesn't need to be carried anymore).

I'm not saying that advice is bad, but it is only truly helpful if and only if the person has asked for it, else it is either wasted or just annoying for him.

Also, following "advice" requires effort while accepting help doesn't.

"Help" in general is a touchy subject and it would be impossible to cover it all in here, but I hope you see roughly where I'm getting at.

I understand that you don't want to wipe over and over due to a teammate and that long pledges are frustrating. But how is advice at that stage going to be useful ? The teammate can possibly swap a skill or two, but he's not going to change his habits, get new gear or increase his situational awareness on the spot. Ultimately you're left with two alternatives : carry him through or kick/leave... I didn't want to add yet another debate to this thread but all posters who claimed that GroupDamage would allow them to "help others" made me wonder what they meant concretely...

.

Mojmir

if anything this addon is getting a lot of press, 21 pages lol

Vangy

coolmodi wrote: »

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

@coolmodi
if ZOS does continue with getting rid of this addon, is there a way to make this more like FTC? just the dps part of it. also if there is a way how hard would it be to implement a share option between the group members addons?

@KallistaBlackheart There is no real way in the game to transmit data between clients like in some other games, FTC just abuses map pings for it, which is not really what they were made for. I don't know what the limitations for that are, but don't expect more than dps ever beeing shared that way.

So as long as FTC works I don't think there's any real sense in basically making the same thing again.

timidobserver wrote: »

The way I understand it, the only thing that you'll be able to distinguish is your damage. The others will be indistinguishable from each other. So any damage that isn't yours will go into one question mark.

@redspecter23 @timidobserver @Vangy Not even that, right now I assing names and group info of units indirectly by matching it to known IDs. ZOS will remove the IDs if you aren't involved, like it is with names already.

In other words you will see 2 things:
-Yourself
-EVERYTHING ELSE (players and NPCs) in visual range combined.

Not even group/player/NPC will be distinguishable anymore, as I do both via the ID.

Ah then it seems ur addon would be reduced to an updated FTC. Well for what's it worth ur addon did make the last few weeks of my pugging runs much more efficient. Gg man. Sorry to see effort put in by you gone down the loo. Now it's back to FTC please.

Vangy

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Actually, it should read "do not give advice to people who did not ask for it". It is a basic and imho universal rule in communicating with other people in general. May vary depending on cultural background, but practically, it's both a lack of respect and a waste of time. They're not going to follow your "advice" unless they 1) think they need some 2) have acknowledged you as a reliable advice giver.

I understand that some people are shy but c'mon, it's really easy, at least in ESO, to ask someone "I have a build similar to yours, how do you do this or that ?"

I know quite a few people who absolutely refuse to join a guild for fear of hearing advice/orders all the time from everyone. And in my guild, rule of thumb is actually to NOT give advice to anyone who doesn't ask for it. Instead, I encourage everyone to hang out in Teamspeak even if they're not currently running in a group, because they learn a lot by just listening to others running or to their endless theorycrafting conversations.

.

I totally get your pov. And I respect that completely. But sadly I don't have the time or patience to wipe at a boss 10 times before someone feels the need to ask for advice. So if I'm left with the alternative of dropping group or kicking said player.

No offence intended. Just my opinion on what goes through my head when there's a really bad player in the group. I try my best to ask them nicely what thyre running in their build and if they need pointers but like you've mentioned some people just don't want anyone interfering with their gameplay. I get that, but that just means imma have to kick you to find someone who can do a better job

Edit: also I'm a little confused here as to what you meant by replacing the word help with advice. In this context they mean the same thing to me. Or are you trying to explain some other scenario which i misunderstood?

In my understanding, A helping B means that A is providing something to B (which B might or might not need, might or might not have asked for, but that doesn't aim at changing B or questioning who he is or the choices he made).
A giving advice to B is not A providing something to B, but trying to *change* B's behaviour so that B doesn't need to be provided with that "something" anymore.
That's why advice is more delicate to deal with than help.

In the context of the game, carrying a teammate through a dungeon is helping. Advising him about his builds or skills is meant to change him (so that he doesn't need to be carried anymore).

I'm not saying that advice is bad, but it is only truly helpful if and only if the person has asked for it, else it is either wasted or just annoying for him.

Also, following "advice" requires effort while accepting help doesn't.

"Help" in general is a touchy subject and it would be impossible to cover it all in here, but I hope you see roughly where I'm getting at.

I understand that you don't want to wipe over and over due to a teammate and that long pledges are frustrating. But how is advice at that stage going to be useful ? The teammate can possibly swap a skill or two, but he's not going to change his habits, get new gear or increase his situational awareness on the spot. Ultimately you're left with two alternatives : carry him through or kick/leave... I didn't want to add yet another debate to this thread but all posters who claimed that GroupDamage would allow them to "help others" made me wonder what they meant concretely...

.

Hmm makes sense.

But in all fairness, me not telling someone their Dps sucks and carrying them through something isn't truly helping them. It's just putting up with them. Thyre going to walk away none the wiser then they were before. And yes someone can't change this up in a day or 2. But if they try and pm me again maybe in a few days or so I'd be much more then willing to give them another try. As opposed to carrying someone while saying nothing and then never grouping up with them again cos I don't enjoy slow runs.

silentgecko

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Personally, I'd like to know WHY you guys came to this decision and hope it was for a technical limitation and not simply......

I agree. @ZOS_GinaBruno How about an explanation? I imagine that even those opposed to the add-on would like to know the reasoning behind your decision.

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Then Please, please @ZOS_GinaBruno give us AddOn Authors a possibility to exchange data between players via the API. i don't know if this is mentioned yet, but at the moment you don't have a possibility to exchange data.
And i mean not the fake pings like FTC does. This just sucks.
Like a "hidden" chat that can be send and read from addons only.
This could help not just this sharing dps topic, for e.g. a raidlead in a trial could send an alert through this channel to his players.

Function

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Though there are good and bad things about this addon, we believe that using this type of addon isn’t in the spirit of our game and encourages spying on other players without their permission. Ultimately, we don’t want players being evaluated and discriminated against based on data they don’t know is being broadcast. You will still be able to use addons that show your own combat data if you so choose to, which you can share with others.

Completely removing the sharing of group damage information is a terrible mistake.. the information this addon has provided the past few weeks has been tremendously valueable. Although I don't think seeing another group members damage is "spying" (since you are apart of that group and your damage is the other group members business as well), I do want to see this addon live on.. please compromise and add in a toggle (in the gameplay settings) on whether or not you are willing to share your information or not. Its not hard to see that an overwhelming majority of the community is in favor of this addon.. it will be a very sad day seeing it go.


Also, this post contradicts the reason that its being removed. Sage said the API restrictions before was "not about keeping the game immersive or trying to make sure people could not see numbers".

FOLLOW-UP: RECENT CHANGES TO API ZOS_PaulSage mod 3:01PM edited 3:01PM in Psijic Developer Discussion

As many of you know, there has been a lot of discussion over recent changes to the API. As you are probably aware, we recently publicly clarified our overall UI modding strategy, and our reasons for making changes to the API. To reiterate, our goal was: to keep the playing field level for our competitive environments.

The initial release of our API was intentionally wide open in order to test the boundaries of what could be done – which is exactly what happened. We saw things which necessitated that we change the API. When we made the changes to restrict our API, our goal was to make sure you couldn’t see more information about your enemies than we intended. But we also found that certain events could be used to allow add-ons and macro programs, used in conjunction, to do many things which otherwise should require player skill. For example, it was trivial to create an add-on “listen” for a debuff, and be able to remove this debuff automatically – or to create an add-on that allowed group members’ adds-ons to report their status through chat allowing party members with the same add-on to automatically cast heals.

In order to keep the playing field as level as we could for competitive PvE and competitive PvP at ship, we removed the ability of the API to access this functionality. We left as much of the API open as we felt we could. If later we feel changes or additional functionality is a good thing without damaging the overall game, some features may be re-enabled. We do not want players writing scripts that play their character for them, and that was the direction ESO UI modding was headed.

Our changes to the API were exclusively about keeping the playing field as level as we could in a competitive environment, not about keeping the game immersive or trying to make sure people could not see numbers. However, it is certainly true we don’t natively add icons to show buffs and display timers. You might ask why?

First, we feel a clean and unobtrusive UI is a key part of The Elder Scrolls Online. We have worked to keep many things off the screen that were not absolutely necessary. As an example, we have broken down buffs and debuffs into a few key effects. If you puncture armor, you can see that overlayed on the health bar of your opponent as a “cracked” graphic. If you or your opponent is powered up, you will see a bright aura around the health bar. If you are suffering from a DOT, you will see arrows representing a decrease overlayed on your health bar. Further, we have animation, sounds, and particle effects in world to give you further clues as to what is happening. We believe these actually represent your state and that of your opponents much more clearly than icons. But why not have icons?

To put it simply, icons are for another game with different controls and a different purpose. The controls of our game naturally tie mouse movement and looking around the world together in a mechanism reminiscent of previous Elder Scrolls games. We don’t have a free mouse where you can get information about what the icons represent by hovering over them in the heat of battle. Also, showing timers through icons isn’t what we wanted. Part of the skill in ESO is situational awareness and seeing when events are happening in the world and in some cases on the UI. Another reason we don’t show buff/debuff icons is that icons appearing and disappearing on the screen looked bad, especially considering ESO has shorter duration debuffs and buffs that would be constantly appearing and disappearing.

Finally, our UI and game isn’t built just for experts, min-maxers, and number crunchers. Our UI is built to have broad appeal while still providing necessary information to be successful. Could more be done to improve the information? I think so. But every improvement has to be weighed carefully against other upcoming features, improvements, or new content added to the game. We are constantly working to improve ESO – which will continue as long as people are playing the game – and we will continue to iterate on the UI and information presented to you.

Lately we’ve been quieter on the boards and in public as we head towards launch – but know that we are always listening and reading. We very much appreciate constructive feedback. We are looking very forward to seeing you in Tamriel on Sunday.

Woeler

Good for you ZOS, I applaud your decision. Coming from a high end raider.

actosh

SkylarkAU wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

How will this effect the FTC addon that allows group members to send/receive their dps results within their group if they choose to enable the option in their settings?

I think it will still work

anitajoneb17_ESO

Vangy wrote: »

But in all fairness, me not telling someone their Dps sucks and carrying them through something isn't truly helping them. It's just putting up with them. Thyre going to walk away none the wiser then they were before. And yes someone can't change this up in a day or 2. But if they try and pm me again maybe in a few days or so I'd be much more then willing to give them another try. As opposed to carrying someone while saying nothing and then never grouping up with them again cos I don't enjoy slow runs.

I understand, but it's how YOU feel about it. Technically, by grouping up, what other team members want is to clear the dungeon, they're not signing up for a DPS-lesson. By carrying them through and compensating low DPS , you're technically doing just that : help them achieving what they want.
Of course, on your side, you're totally free to mention that you prefer quick runs, and that you're willing to provide some advice in case that person wants to do quick runs too. Some will gladly accept, some won't, that's up to them. And you're also totally free to never group up with them again. Obviously in the long-term that's the less constructive approach, but my point is that accepting advice is up to them, not you.
Sounds a bit "nit-picking" but these are significant details that can make a difference between destroying someone's self-confidence and encouraging progress. Not that I always get it right myself... Noticed that I just gave you some advice that you have not asked for ? ;-)

Destruent

Problem is: if you sign up for a GROUP-event, you have make sure that you can HELP your group. That's what i expect from myself and from my teammates. If someone can't fullfill it's role properly there are some things how to handle it:

1. he says it and is asking for help (i prefer this ^^)
2. he says it and also says, he just want to get through the dungeon (it's ok for gildies and now everyone know what the run is going to be like)
3. he doesn't say anything (bc he don't want to say or don't know about his low DPS etc) but appreciates the help
4. doesn't say anything, knows about his crappy performance and is maybe proud of it (don't want any help at all)

This addon will only be problematic for the players of number 4. But again, who want to group with them?
magine you have in a group with one top-DPS and one DD without any DPS (playergroup Nr. 3, gets outdpsed by tanks) at all...how to help this one if he maybe wants to get help?

Ruben

coolmodi wrote: »

@redspecter23 @timidobserver @Vangy Not even that, right now I assing names and group info of units indirectly by matching it to known IDs. ZOS will remove the IDs if you aren't involved, like it is with names already.

In other words you will see 2 things:
-Yourself
-EVERYTHING ELSE (players and NPCs) in visual range combined.

Not even group/player/NPC will be distinguishable anymore, as I do both via the ID.

Does that mean that we wouldn't even see our DPS as a group? It would be mixed with the enemies' DPS?

Function

Ruben wrote: »

coolmodi wrote: »

@redspecter23 @timidobserver @Vangy Not even that, right now I assing names and group info of units indirectly by matching it to known IDs. ZOS will remove the IDs if you aren't involved, like it is with names already.

In other words you will see 2 things:
-Yourself
-EVERYTHING ELSE (players and NPCs) in visual range combined.

Not even group/player/NPC will be distinguishable anymore, as I do both via the ID.

Does that mean that we wouldn't even see our DPS as a group? It would be mixed with the enemies' DPS?

Unfortunately with the changes ZoS is making you will only be able to see your DPS then a big blob of everything else combined.