Spy Addon Group Damage

Reorx_Holybeard · January 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

Yay now more elitists will kick me from their pledge group because I don't have 45k dps

this is disturbing.
very frustrating that eso allows these types of things, i hate it.

I'm sorry, but its not possible to hide low dps from experienced teammates.
Even when I'm tanking, I see how long the fight lasts and I can tell if dds are above or below average.

P.S. I've never seen anyone being kicked from a random pug for not having 45k. People are not getting kicked for posting 8-12 (well, usually).

Attempt to do anything that's not Wayrest Sewers or Spindeclutch and people will complain if you don't have 15k and if you go into CoA, if you have below 30-40k prepare to get called a noob and kicked.

dude. average is 12-17k dps. 20k+ is great skill. 30k+ is alot of mobs around the boss. 40k plus is all aoe. i can do 60k on my v3 nb in vet grinding alkir zombies. dont be a liar

I guess I'm finding PuGs in the wrong areas because I'm seeing the "average" of a PuG DPS to be closer to 10k. I levelled up the undaunted skill on two characters in the fall and found I could estimate how good/bad the group was from its overall DPS on bosses (estimated from my DPS from FTC combined with the boss hitpoints):

< 20k = Slow going for even easy dungeons, very hard for tough dungeons, and impossible for dungeons like CoA, ICP, WGT
~30k = Average for most PuGs, very hard to complete tougher dungeons like CoA, ICP, WGT
>40k = Easy mode for most dungeons
>60k = Easy mode for all dungeons (very rare to get a PuG in this range)

Keep in mind that is the total combined DPS for the *group* for your average boss fight. Finding a DPS in a PuG that can actually output >20k themselves in a boss fight is not common and a very pleasant surprise.

Its interesting to see what people consider their DPS when it boils down to a single number. For example, on my magicka NB I've gotten above 50k in short AoE fights but its seems a little disingenuous to use that number for anything useful. On single-target boss fights I've gotten anywhere from 8-25k so I typically say my DPS is 10k as that I can guarantee that number. Yes, I can get 20k on some fights but on other fights I won't be able to get anywhere near that. Perhaps I'm selling myself short by using such a low-ball amount.

Malmai · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

Yay now more elitists will kick me from their pledge group because I don't have 45k dps

this is disturbing.
very frustrating that eso allows these types of things, i hate it.

Its not if your don't invest time in the game you can't be the best its same thing in real life...

Now start grinding for gear and practice and get uBer macros !

Unassailable · January 2016

official answer from ZOS
but from the site of addon's

asneakybanana · January 2016

eliisra wrote: »

People totally exaggerate about this.

It's so rare to encounter players pulling 30k dps single target in pugs(outside of Overload builds). Because well, they dont join pugs like ever or willingly to begin with. They only do dungeon and groups with other players pulling 30k dps lol. They run with perfect setup that helps them achieve those numbers, keeping all buffs up and knowing when and how to stack.

When you join a pug, people will be super happy if you get at least 15k dps. Even 10k is fine for most VR dungeons and enough to not get kicked or made fun of. I also doubt anyone outside of hardcore min/max PvE guilds will even bother downloading this addon.

Taking a pug or 2 along with you on a dungeon is super funny sometimes. Have brought tanks a healers that literally couldn't comprehend how we kill stuff so fast lol. But I agree that for the most part you will have a hard time finding pugs like that.

Dawnblade · January 2016

I never understood why some players are so against and afraid of any kind of group performance measurement tool, especially as most content is tuned assuming some minimal level of performance.

I'd much prefer to see my performance and be able to compare my performance to others and be able to make adjustments as needed rather than play guessing games and just assuming I and the rest of my group are performing adequately.

That which isn't measured cannot be improved.

Unassailable · January 2016

in text

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote:

This is something we've been discussing internally. The existence of the unit id in combat events that don't involve you was an oversight and not intended at the time the change was made. I don't want you to waste a lot of time working with it only to have it patched out, so I'd be wary for the time being.

riverdragon72 · January 2016

For the most part all this will be used for is discouragement and griefing.

Cuyler · January 2016

Unassailable wrote: »

in text

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote:

This is something we've been discussing internally. The existence of the unit id in combat events that don't involve you was an oversight and not intended at the time the change was made. I don't want you to waste a lot of time working with it only to have it patched out, so I'd be wary for the time being.

You need to post a link to the source so we can verify...simply posting this is completely out of context. There is nothing in that statement that dictates he's even talking about this addon, it's programming or even it is from today.

At the moment this means nothing....

coolmodi · January 2016

riverdragon72 wrote: »

For the most part all this will be used for is discouragement and griefing.

So the solution to some people beeing unfriendly a**holes is to hide information that benefits all other people?

Dawnblade wrote: »

That which isn't measured cannot be improved.

This.

Before I made this addon I never knew how good I was compared to others, I only play casual since a very long time, I don't even have a max level char, but in LFG dungeons I at least know that I don't hold others down without any way of knowing it.

For many people, including me, just trying to be 1st place also makes the game more interesting.

I know there are idiots that insult you over bad dmg, but come on, even in WoW that was pretty rare, and mostly affected people that intentionally didn't do much in dungeons, and those people are here too. I stopped playing my healer because of that, LFG dungeons were just pure horror with DDs that do less dmg than I do as healer. And the sad part, many of them probably don't even do it intetionally, they just don't know that their build is just crap, or that they do something really wrong.

Those people should have no problem with this addon though, it only helps in that regard, everybody can improve to a level where he isn't a burden to the rest of the group.

This addon only negatively affects people who want others to carry them and do all the work for them, people who refuse to improve. I'm ultra casual, my build is just random skills I like to use or want to level, yet I do up to 60% of the dmg sometimes, and I never fall in regions where I'd have to feel bad. There is no reason people who aren't intetionally bad because of lazyness should be afraid of this addon.

Edit: And I think people going in a dungeon and doing literally nothing because others have no way of knowing is a bigger problem than some idiots insulting others over dmg.

And if you're in a guild that does this, well, you may be in the wrong guild then.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

Cuyler wrote: »

Unassailable wrote: »

in text

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote:

This is something we've been discussing internally. The existence of the unit id in combat events that don't involve you was an oversight and not intended at the time the change was made. I don't want you to waste a lot of time working with it only to have it patched out, so I'd be wary for the time being.

You need to post a link to the source so we can verify...simply posting this is completely out of context. There is nothing in that statement that dictates he's even talking about this addon, it's programming or even it is from today.

At the moment this means nothing....

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=1259#comments

here you go.

But we just had the addon author speaking, so it should be trustable now ?

Problem solved anyway, good thing.

@coolmodi :

So the solution to some people beeing unfriendly a**holes is to hide information that benefits all other people?

No, it's to ask people if they're ready to make that information public.

Don't even want to comment on the rest of your paragraph, you're entitled to your opinion, but in my world, it stinks, sorry.

.

timidobserver · January 2016

Unassailable wrote: »

official answer from ZOS
but from the site of addon's

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

Ra'Shtar · January 2016

That's it we get a nice addon and now they are removing it from now on i'm kicking from my group anyone who's dps sucks i don't need an addon to tell me who sucks dpsing i just have to pay attention, as the healer is something i do all the time.

Cuyler · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=1259#comments

here you go.

But we just had the addon author speaking, so it should be trustable now ?

Problem solved anyway, good thing.

Thanks? At the time of my post the author hadn't posted sooo yea not sure why u so salty I asked for a source.

Function · January 2016

So they actually put something useful into the addon API and it is an "oversight".. if this gets patched up I will be very sad..

coolmodi · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

No, it's to ask people if they're ready to make that information public.

Just why? This is no personal information, it's just some numbers representing what you do, I even think other groupmembers should have a right to know if someone in the group just lets them do all the work.

Again, only those lazy egoists that think the rest should work for them have a reason to fear something like this.

In other cases this addon can only help, whether it is to compare yourself with others, or to improve yourself, or help others get better, which is something I would even trust this community doing. Ignoring a few special childish people who insult just for not beeing great surely can't be that much of a problem, right?

I know when I still raided and did vet dungeons it was hell to find out where the problem was when wiping, it was impossible to find out if someone just played wrong completely, something like that would've been great to have. And I can't say it enough: If you want to be good, you can at least be good enough to not be a burden for others, if you don't want to do that, then MAYBE don't play with other people that actually want to "win". Intentionally holding others back should not be supported and made easy (again).

Xjcon · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Unassailable wrote: »

in text

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote:

This is something we've been discussing internally. The existence of the unit id in combat events that don't involve you was an oversight and not intended at the time the change was made. I don't want you to waste a lot of time working with it only to have it patched out, so I'd be wary for the time being.

You need to post a link to the source so we can verify...simply posting this is completely out of context. There is nothing in that statement that dictates he's even talking about this addon, it's programming or even it is from today.

At the moment this means nothing....

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=1259#comments

here you go.

But we just had the addon author speaking, so it should be trustable now ?

Problem solved anyway, good thing.

@coolmodi :

So the solution to some people beeing unfriendly a**holes is to hide information that benefits all other people?

No, it's to ask people if they're ready to make that information public.

Don't even want to comment on the rest of your paragraph, you're entitled to your opinion, but in my world, it stinks, sorry.

.

Ask people what? If they are wasting other people's time? All this does is give group members and idea if you carry your weight. It should be implied when you join a group that you won't have to get in the wheel barrel to finish the content the group set forth to complete.

Cuyler · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

I respect your opinion and as good as your reasons are, this is a two-way street. You, ZOS and everyone else sharing this opinion need to realize that this addon improves the gaming experience for those who truly wish to do better, be better and ultimately elevate the limits of this game.

There needs to be a line drawn between those who carry an "elitist" attitude and those who are truly elite. Being elite in as of itself is not wrong....being a **** "elitist" is, there's a difference...and the few give the rest of us a bad name. Unfortunately, this is why we can't have nice things.

For every d-bag "elitist"; there are 10000 crappy dps. Think about that.

Miszou · January 2016

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo. If you're in my group and your dps is sucking a fat one then I deserve to know you are getting carried so I can either A. Help you with your build or B. Know not to rez you if you die.

If you don't like all the info given to you on pc then you can always just go to console, where there is a distinct lack of any information, and enjoy all the immurshuns

Between your commentary and your signature, you sound like the sort of awful person that this mod was designed for. Bravo, sir.

asneakybanana · January 2016

Miszou wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo. If you're in my group and your dps is sucking a fat one then I deserve to know you are getting carried so I can either A. Help you with your build or B. Know not to rez you if you die.

If you don't like all the info given to you on pc then you can always just go to console, where there is a distinct lack of any information, and enjoy all the immurshuns

Between your commentary and your signature, you sound like the sort of awful person that this mod was designed for. Bravo, sir.

I'm not really a fan of the whole kick you out of the group because you suck thing. The only time I will stop helping you or running with you is if you refuse to learn and being ignorant. I really enjoy helping people but Anita is just one of those people that cries just to cry and doesn't want to get any better. Back when maelstrom came out I did a step by step walkthrough of how to clear it with one of the hardest specs in the game for it and the people that listened and followed eventually managed to clear but all she does is complain complain complain and that's not what this game needs, there's already enough QQers out there.

Ghost-Shot · January 2016

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo. If you're in my group and your dps is sucking a fat one then I deserve to know you are getting carried so I can either A. Help you with your build or B. Know not to rez you if you die.

If you don't like all the info given to you on pc then you can always just go to console, where there is a distinct lack of any information, and enjoy all the immurshuns

One of the best add-ons we've found and what would have been an awesome tool for the upcoming raid progression phase and its going to be taken away because scrubs would rather whine on the forums about not wanting people to know they suck than L2P. The people here complaining would never even have a shot at groups where this add-on even matters so why is it a big deal?

coolmodi · January 2016

[quote="Miszou;2600010"
awful person that this mod was designed for.[/quote]

This addon was designed for every player that doesn't intentionally want to suck while playing with other HUMAN people. Wanting to be good is not awful, wanting to win is nothing bad, beeing a burden to others and wasting their tiome IS.

If you can change it, but just don't know you perform sub-par in the first place, this addon can help.
If you are good and could help others, this addon will help. (Great for guilds!)
If you are lazy and bad, your build sucks, and you don't want to improve and just let the others in the group do everything, this addon will hurt.

You can always find a guild with other people who also don't care, if you have fun wiping over and over or taking 10min for a non-vet boss, great, but don't make people who don't suffer for you.

Imho ZOS has to figure out whether they want an MMO, or a singleplayer game with some online aspects. This is not just about this addon, but about some other things too. Duels beeing one big thing I also don't understand not beeing there. Probably because some hypersensitive people could get their feelings hurt when loosing a stupid, absolutely irrelevant duel.

tl;dr: You are free to play however you want alone, but demanding (random) others to not be able to see you slacking off while wasting their time is not OK.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

asneakybanana wrote: »

I really enjoy helping people but Anita is just one of those people that cries just to cry and doesn't want to get any better. Back when maelstrom came out I did a step by step walkthrough of how to clear it with one of the hardest specs in the game for it and the people that listened and followed eventually managed to clear but all she does is complain complain complain and that's not what this game needs, there's already enough QQers out there.

Do we know each other ? Have we ever played together ? Where do I complain ? I think you are mistaking me for someone else, sir. What do I have to do with your MSA walkthrough ? where have I complained about MSA ?
Get your facts together.

Zorrashi · January 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo. If you're in my group and your dps is sucking a fat one then I deserve to know you are getting carried so I can either A. Help you with your build or B. Know not to rez you if you die.

If you don't like all the info given to you on pc then you can always just go to console, where there is a distinct lack of any information, and enjoy all the immurshuns

One of the best add-ons we've found and what would have been an awesome tool for the upcoming raid progression phase and its going to be taken away because scrubs would rather whine on the forums about not wanting people to know they suck than L2P. The people here complaining would never even have a shot at groups where this add-on even matters so why is it a big deal?

It would not be a big deal at all if it wasn't for the "spying" part. DPS and such measurements are fine if all parties consent to it.
You could've still used it for all we care, but all you would have had to have done is ask to have our numbers before they are displayed/calculated.

All we really wanted was for the choice to say yes or no.

asneakybanana · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

I really enjoy helping people but Anita is just one of those people that cries just to cry and doesn't want to get any better. Back when maelstrom came out I did a step by step walkthrough of how to clear it with one of the hardest specs in the game for it and the people that listened and followed eventually managed to clear but all she does is complain complain complain and that's not what this game needs, there's already enough QQers out there.

Do we know each other ? Have we ever played together ? Where do I complain ? I think you are mistaking me for someone else, sir.

Just a quick glance from your posts back in November found a couple complaining about maelstrom being too hard and then my response with a link to my thread.

Function · January 2016

Miszou wrote: »

Between your commentary and your signature, you sound like the sort of awful person that this mod was designed for. Bravo, sir.

It is actually the people trying to suppress this addon that are the awful people, the people who don't want their numbers to be seen because they wish to be carried through content instead of carrying their own weight. There is no logical reason for why you should care that your numbers are made public, they are just numbers after all..

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2016

This is a great addon. I always play DPS, and competing with other DPSes in the group allows me to see how I'm doing and grow as a player. There are so many garbage numbers online that noobs like to tout in game. It's nice having verification of what kind of DPS people are actually getting.

Ghost-Shot · January 2016

Zorrashi wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo. If you're in my group and your dps is sucking a fat one then I deserve to know you are getting carried so I can either A. Help you with your build or B. Know not to rez you if you die.

If you don't like all the info given to you on pc then you can always just go to console, where there is a distinct lack of any information, and enjoy all the immurshuns

One of the best add-ons we've found and what would have been an awesome tool for the upcoming raid progression phase and its going to be taken away because scrubs would rather whine on the forums about not wanting people to know they suck than L2P. The people here complaining would never even have a shot at groups where this add-on even matters so why is it a big deal?

It would not be a big deal at all if it wasn't for the "spying" part. DPS and such measurements are fine if all parties consent to it.
You could've still used it for all we care, but all you would have had to have done is ask to have our numbers before they are displayed/calculated.

All we really wanted was for the choice to say yes or no.

My problem with that is that if someone refused to have it on, I probably wouldn't run with them anyway. Like @asneakybanana said, i have no issue with bad players and in fact i actually enjoy teaching people what I have spent so long learning to do and often raid lead training runs for a casual guild I am in. Now if that player wants to hide how bad they are or refuse to learn anything then I cant be bothered to carry them through the daily and honestly they don't really deserve the gold key or trial achievements anyway.

As many others have said here already, i can tell roughly how much dps someone is doing based on what i see them doing and how long bosses take to die so I'm not going to magically think someone doesn't suck without this add-on, but it would have been amazing for not only knowing how much help someone needs but analyzing boss pulls and the effectiveness of strats while progressing in the upcoming raid.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

I really enjoy helping people but Anita is just one of those people that cries just to cry and doesn't want to get any better. Back when maelstrom came out I did a step by step walkthrough of how to clear it with one of the hardest specs in the game for it and the people that listened and followed eventually managed to clear but all she does is complain complain complain and that's not what this game needs, there's already enough QQers out there.

Do we know each other ? Have we ever played together ? Where do I complain ? I think you are mistaking me for someone else, sir.

Just a quick glance from your posts back in November found a couple complaining about maelstrom being too hard and then my response with a link to my thread.

Oh ! I post here nearly everyday but you have to go back 2 months to find some "complaining"... and all I said about vMSA is that it was too hard for my taste and that I'd wait for a nerf. Oh and maybe that it lacked some middle difficulty level. I'm afraid your definition of "whiners" or "QQers" is "anyone who disagrees with you".

.

Xjcon · January 2016

Zorrashi wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo. If you're in my group and your dps is sucking a fat one then I deserve to know you are getting carried so I can either A. Help you with your build or B. Know not to rez you if you die.

If you don't like all the info given to you on pc then you can always just go to console, where there is a distinct lack of any information, and enjoy all the immurshuns

One of the best add-ons we've found and what would have been an awesome tool for the upcoming raid progression phase and its going to be taken away because scrubs would rather whine on the forums about not wanting people to know they suck than L2P. The people here complaining would never even have a shot at groups where this add-on even matters so why is it a big deal?

It would not be a big deal at all if it wasn't for the "spying" part. DPS and such measurements are fine if all parties consent to it.
You could've still used it for all we care, but all you would have had to have done is ask to have our numbers before they are displayed/calculated.

All we really wanted was for the choice to say yes or no.

When you join a group Ask if they run this addon, when they say yes you can opt out.