Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

Rosveen · July 2015

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

Who gave YOU the idea that you are entitled to MY Tel Var stones? See how that works?

A simple as pie... PVP zone, you suck i get the loot.

If it's a PvP zone only, then why is all this juicy PvE content being stuffed inside of it? They should have divided the IC into two sections, one PvP space that functions like the rest of Cyrodiil, and one PvE space that has all the goodies in it that PvEers want to grind WITHOUT being robbed.

I'm NOT robbing you I EARN MY REWARD for killing you, since i usually dont kill mobs till dawn in order to get the loot i want,
i will camper your death body and wait for your pve friends.

I wish sometimes that Valkin Skoria had the possibilities to come in the forums, complaining about the fact that someone has looted his head 100 times a day.

And on a side note WE PLAY CYRODILL already why we should have MORE CYRODILL again?

Much in the same way as a mugger earns his reward by whacking me on the head and making off with my wallet. I don't deny the effort you put into it, but let's call it what it is: robbery. You are a thug making a living off other people's wealth. That is fine, it's an officially supported playstyle, no need to be ashamed and beat around the bush.

WolffenBloodseeker · July 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

Who gave YOU the idea that you are entitled to MY Tel Var stones? See how that works?

A simple as pie... PVP zone, you suck i get the loot.

If it's a PvP zone only, then why is all this juicy PvE content being stuffed inside of it? They should have divided the IC into two sections, one PvP space that functions like the rest of Cyrodiil, and one PvE space that has all the goodies in it that PvEers want to grind WITHOUT being robbed.

I'm NOT robbing you I EARN MY REWARD for killing you, since i usually dont kill mobs till dawn in order to get the loot i want,
i will camper your death body and wait for your pve friends.

I wish sometimes that Valkin Skoria had the possibilities to come in the forums, complaining about the fact that someone has looted his head 100 times a day.

And on a side note WE PLAY CYRODILL already why we should have MORE CYRODILL again?

Much in the same way as a mugger earns his reward by whacking me on the head and making off with my wallet. I don't deny the effort you put into it, but let's call it what it is: robbery. You are a thug making a living off other people's wealth. That is fine, it's an officially supported playstyle, no need to be ashamed and beat around the bush.

Nope, a better analogy is much in the same way a soldier fighting in a war, then he kills one of his enemies and take loot and trophies from his body, it's his prize for the fighting he did, shame of the one who died but such is war, Cyrodiil is a war-torn land, everything in Cyrodiil is about 3 alliances fighting this massive war to dethrone a dieing empire while still fighting a massive invasion from oblivion, don't want to get involved in a war? going to the middle of it isn't the way to go then

Tavore1138 · July 2015

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

Who gave YOU the idea that you are entitled to MY Tel Var stones? See how that works?

A simple as pie... PVP zone, you suck i get the loot.

If it's a PvP zone only, then why is all this juicy PvE content being stuffed inside of it? They should have divided the IC into two sections, one PvP space that functions like the rest of Cyrodiil, and one PvE space that has all the goodies in it that PvEers want to grind WITHOUT being robbed.

I'm NOT robbing you I EARN MY REWARD for killing you, since i usually dont kill mobs till dawn in order to get the loot i want,
i will camper your death body and wait for your pve friends.

I wish sometimes that Valkin Skoria had the possibilities to come in the forums, complaining about the fact that someone has looted his head 100 times a day.

And on a side note WE PLAY CYRODILL already why we should have MORE CYRODILL again?

Much in the same way as a mugger earns his reward by whacking me on the head and making off with my wallet. I don't deny the effort you put into it, but let's call it what it is: robbery. You are a thug making a living off other people's wealth. That is fine, it's an officially supported playstyle, no need to be ashamed and beat around the bush.

Nope, a better analogy is much in the same way a soldier fighting in a war, then he kills one of his enemies and take loot and trophies from his body, it's his prize for the fighting he did, shame of the one who died but such is war, Cyrodiil is a war-torn land, everything in Cyrodiil is about 3 alliances fighting this massive war to dethrone a dieing empire while still fighting a massive invasion from oblivion, don't want to get involved in a war? going to the middle of it isn't the way to go then

An even better one is that it is a game where you role play being at war, that is why you have no real consequences like actually dying or losing a limb.

But if we take yours then there have been many words in history for those who hang around the edges of battles, killing & looting those who have been fighting the real enemy. Soldier is not one of those words....

Elsonso · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.

You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.

So? Take it back. You are the law. Do something about it.

This is really what it boils down to, after all. Someone takes your sweetroll, go take it back.

Anywhere in the Imperial City that you can get Tel Var stones from NPCs will be a PVP zone with other players who can possibly come by and take your sweetroll. I am certain that gankers will hang out in the sewers near the Alliance safe zones trying to relieve returning players of their Tel Var stones. The whole Imperial City is designed to be risky and the PVE player that does not want to fight (or, like me, cannot win) will need to be extra careful.

If this is not your idea of fun, and a lot of people may find this to be the case, then don't go there. Orsinium is up next and that will have a ton of PVE game play, probably an increase in Veteran Rank to 18, new top end gear and motifs, and it will have nothing at all for the PVP players to do. It will be PVE nirvana.

It is not necessary to take your marbles and leave the game over this.

Mysfit · July 2015

The title of this thread is too funny.

Attention ZOS: Please be able to differentiate between some kid complaining because he/she isn't getting their way vs. constructive criticism.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

So many babies.

this is the nature of PVP. If you don't like it, don't do it, and if you want the gear, either do it properly, or buy it from someone else.

Don't try and wreck what will be awesome fun for those of us that actually do enjoy PVP, considering this is literally our first PVP update since.... Since ever.

Except, you know, this entire thing is the first DLC for the game. You're might as well tell people to just uninstall the game all together with that attitude.

First? No, it isn't, but prior ones were included in the subscription. And there will be more.

Tavore1138 · July 2015

Mysfit wrote: »

The title of this thread is too funny.

Attention ZOS: Please be able to differentiate between some kid complaining because he/she isn't getting their way vs. constructive criticism.

./waves at the strawman.

Annoyed adult actually - just summing up that all the things that people had been concerned about since the announcement was posted around TV stones were borne out in their streaming event.

But thanks for revealing the emptiness of your own views by having to resort to fallacy.

Mysfit · July 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Mysfit wrote: »

The title of this thread is too funny.

Attention ZOS: Please be able to differentiate between some kid complaining because he/she isn't getting their way vs. constructive criticism.

But thanks for revealing the emptiness of your own views by having to resort to fallacy.

What?

Also, just because some of the people who are constantly complaining about everything are adults doesn't mean they are acting like adults...

Xantaria · July 2015

This is a great Hardcore addition to the game. LOVE IT! And by the wayy .. there won'T be big groups ... as they said the stones will be SHARED if you go with 10 people and kill someone who has 1000 stones you will get 100 ... if you would have killed him alone you would get all 1000. Making grouping a waste unless you are looking for more safety.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

What I worry about reading many of the pro voices here is that, with some honourable exceptions, all the replies are basically aggressive to others and seem to have a legal requirement to get the word 'carebear' in somewhere.

That really only backs up my points.

Incidentally, and falling into the trap myself, quite a few of you also appear on my kill list but not on my killers list so... you know... bring it on...

I don't have to enjoy or approve of the system to be able to beat it.

In other points:

Those of us who sub will be 'buying' it regardless. Encouraging us to unsub means less funds to keep the game going.

@Septimus_Magna I think you have the best compromise there, not sure what the sweet spot would be for % loss on a kill but there must be a point that can satisfy those who want full consequence PvP and those who want consequence free PvP.

This NOT just a PvP update so stop pretending it is - it has PvE dungeons and PvE only zones along with questing. Those saying that their PvE content is being gated behind PvP have a good point. It's not a concern I sahe but it doesn't make it any less valid.

Actually, it is a PvP update and DLC pack, and though it does contain two new dungeons as well, those can be teleported to directly and safely as-is. The percentage per kill, if I'm not mistaken (I haven't yet watched the ESO Live! broadcast as I was busy the majority of the evening and then hit the hay), may be tweaked depending on test feedback, although I feel it's fair at 100% loss when dying given that people can and will carry various numbers of stones regularly, particularly given the multiplier element for the increased risk of carrying extra... and that you can go kill them to get your stones back (or the rest of your group can

, and rez you!).

If you're subscribing, you knew up-front that you're renting the downloadable packs as long as you remain a subscriber, at which point you do not retain access to them unless you use a portion of the crowns you got while subscribing. Considering it's more economical by far to simply buy a $40 crown pack and buy the downloadable content packs ala carte (this one comes to $18.18 worth of crowns that way (yes, I know there are smaller packages, but how is that different from buying a single can of soda vs. a 12-pack at a store? you pay more if you buy tiny amounts for convenience), and I imagine Orsinium will likely be priced around the same give or take in another few months), you presumably are subscribing for a specific reason other than just the zone access for new ones that come out.

As a non-subscriber I will buy and pay for these as I think they merit: "pay for performance". If a new package interests me, I will buy it. But with the "buy to play" payment model I don't ever lose access to what I've bought for not subscribing at a mandatory $15 per month. Instead, every few months or potentially more, when something of interest comes along... I can buy it, and save money overall by a nice margin.

As someone who's seldomly interested in the vanity/cosmetic stuff, it's a great deal. That's also why, even as a from-long-before-launch player who paid a good ~$300 or so of subscription, box, and other fees from launch until the time it went buy to play, I don't feel slighted at all having to buy the Imperial City at this point. Not only have they shown a large increase in the original scope from what we all expected and anticipated last year, but they also have not had us have to pay $15/month for what will be over five months ($75+ worth) of fees when the Imperial City hits the live servers on the PC . In short... I view it as having been told "Here's sixty bucks back if you were going to play in the meantime". And I did.

Tavore1138 · July 2015

actually it is more than just the dungeons, there is questing announced as well plus the data mined info suggests several of the six districts may be PvE only.

But like I say I play both PvP and PvE so not overly bothered by that aspect anyway....

My logic for subscribing has mainly been around supporting the game with a contribution to the revenue stream, chances are I'll actually buy DLC I like just in case I choose to stop subbing at some point... I also really like collecting mounts...

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.

You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.

So? Take it back. You are the law. Do something about it.

This is really what it boils down to, after all. Someone takes your sweetroll, go take it back.

Anywhere in the Imperial City that you can get Tel Var stones from NPCs will be a PVP zone with other players who can possibly come by and take your sweetroll. I am certain that gankers will hang out in the sewers near the Alliance safe zones trying to relieve returning players of their Tel Var stones. The whole Imperial City is designed to be risky and the PVE player that does not want to fight (or, like me, cannot win) will need to be extra careful.

If this is not your idea of fun, and a lot of people may find this to be the case, then don't go there. Orsinium is up next and that will have a ton of PVE game play, probably an increase in Veteran Rank to 18, new top end gear and motifs, and it will have nothing at all for the PVP players to do. It will be PVE nirvana.

It is not necessary to take your marbles and leave the game over this.

They didn't rob you, either: they earned it by killing you. Just as you earned it by killing others, whether that was NPC's or player characters. You can shuttle your stones to safety for less risk by doing so more frequently, or hold them on your person while fighting at an increased risk, but higher reward potential thanks to the large multiplier on earnings when carrying different thresholds of stone currency.

If you are only going in there to grind monsters, and are not happy with the idea of another player being able to defeat you for your stones who is playing in the PVP zone to do both... then don't go. Go get some of the numerous bind on pickup sets from trials (raids), veteran dungeons/undaunted pledges, and other areas. Alongside those (which quite literally cannot be earned without PVE'ing, unlike these PVP items) you will get gold, which you can trade for those who took on and succeeded at tackling the challenge and beating the risk out in the Alliance War. Given the higher difficulty of gaining these items, yes, they will ask for a lot of gold. You have your options to earn them: go do it yourself, or get items to pay for it with on your own that others need and don't want to go get themselves that are obtained in PVE.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

actually it is more than just the dungeons, there is questing announced as well plus the data mined info suggests several of the six districts may be PvE only.

But like I say I play both PvP and PvE so not overly bothered by that aspect anyway....

My logic for subscribing has mainly been around supporting the game with a contribution to the revenue stream, chances are I'll actually buy DLC I like just in case I choose to stop subbing at some point... I also really like collecting mounts...

Questing that is oriented towards providing additional content in the PVP zone. That doesn't make it PVE just because it has NPC's involved . And no, as far as has been announced or even data mined, none of it other than the two(four) instanced dungeons (non-vet and vet versions) will be "PVE only" bar the small protected areas so you don't die during a load screen or while banking, for example.

If you like collecting mounts? That's great! It's your choice, however, to buy those with your money.

DDuke · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

Who gave YOU the idea that you are entitled to MY Tel Var stones? See how that works?

A simple as pie... PVP zone, you suck i get the loot.

If it's a PvP zone only, then why is all this juicy PvE content being stuffed inside of it? They should have divided the IC into two sections, one PvP space that functions like the rest of Cyrodiil, and one PvE space that has all the goodies in it that PvEers want to grind WITHOUT being robbed.

I'm NOT robbing you I EARN MY REWARD for killing you, since i usually dont kill mobs till dawn in order to get the loot i want,
i will camper your death body and wait for your pve friends.

I wish sometimes that Valkin Skoria had the possibilities to come in the forums, complaining about the fact that someone has looted his head 100 times a day.

And on a side note WE PLAY CYRODILL already why we should have MORE CYRODILL again?

LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.

You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.

Wait... so killing people is ok, but god forbid your rob them as well? I hope that's not your line of thinking IRL.

It's a game mechanic. If you don't enjoy it, don't participate in it. Simple as that.

Pretty much the same as every Trial released & group dungeon released so far (if I recall correctly, you're the "solo player" person posting how you should be able to solo everything).

Wait for Wrothgar, it should have something for your playstyle (and yes, PvPers will probably complain since they get nothing).

umagon · July 2015

Player looting isn't the problem, players kill farming with alts and guild members will be the real problem. I have seen this happen in another game with a similar system. Also what they are doing by intentionally creating a power gap then require players to pay cash to fill that gap is just a bit underhanded. I don't mind paying for new content but I can't support pay to win schemes; it's bad enough with the cp and exp potions/buff.

Pallmor · July 2015

Tyrusaran wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

AnAngryGinger wrote: »

What PVP fans don't understand is they've added this mechanic and put new PVE content in a PVP area. If PVE players had new content solely for them, none of this would be an issue.

MMO =/= PVP

PVP is just one aspect.

There is some PvE content in there, but you can only earn stones in the PvP areas. :-(

NO the stones are EARNED in pve and can be STOLEN in pvp wich you must cross to get to safety, eventhough said pvp nabs that steal have not EARNED said stones.

I watched the broadcast and I'm pretty sure the guy said that you can only earn stones in PvP zones. You earn them through PvE combat but the zones are all PvP enabled. So watch your back and heal fast after combat, or the ganker Nightblade cloaked off screen might one-shot you the second after you kill the boss.

Bromburak · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.

You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.

You like to steal when killing million of mobs , why you shouldn't drop anything?
Thats a reasonable compromise for player loot mechanism , or do you prefer losing your gear instead?

Btw. why do you want stones, someone like you doesn't really need the teleports anyway.
The crafting mats can be obtained a different way, go farm to afford stuff a different way.

Joy_Division · July 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.

I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.

PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.

Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?

Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?

Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.

Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...

Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...

This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.

I will.

I have 5 million gold and I don't even farm it. You don't think I wont have so many stones that I wont care about losing a few hundred or what not? With all these PvE players making up their mind before the DLC is even out and insisting they won't set foot in cyrodiil - as if were a radioactive wasteland they might become infected or something - you better believe I'll be farming those easy to kill mobs. And since I actually like questing in this game, I'm going to get a bunch of stones that even the best gankers out there won't ever be able to touch.

CP5 · July 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

There is no player friendly options in pvp. All blues and reds must die when I am in pvp and vice versa. Build a pvp build and fight back or else don't come to cyrodill if your afraid of getting owned.

No problem! In fact I would love that. I hate PvP, I HATE ESO PvP, I hate the exploiters, I hate how useless a tank will soon become in PvP (which is to say, MORE useless than before).

Problem is with your statement above is that endgame progression for PvE is pretty much tied up in PvP.

WHEN will ZOS learn to keep the two worlds separate. Why is this a hard thing to do. I feel like it's being shoved at our faces, "LIKE IT OR ELSE"

I have absolutely no reason to PvP in this game.
When I want to PvP, I log in into a real PvP game, without the exploiting, the lag, the zergs and the endless running back.

The IC concept is actually cool on paper... if they put it in DAoC or Warhammer Online.

But those were real PvP games:

- I did not need to change morphs, build and gear every time I wanted to PvE and then switch to PvP and back. This is huge. Doing Sanctum Ophidia with a PvP build is just an insult to your guild mates. However that awesome PvE build is completely useless for PvP.

- Top of the line gear did NOT rely on doing that content to be achieved. A griefer guild could not prevent everybody from getting new gear and improve.

- Who rolled on DAoC or Warhammer WANTED to PvP to begin with. Those games came with the purest PvP mark on them, whoever subbed to them knew he'd PvP all the time. Result: those who played those games (me included!) were only those who loved to PvP. There were no "PvEers hurled into PvP willing or not".

- Most of all, those games did not come with terrible mechanics like endless shields, endless (even if nerfed) teleporting, dodging etc. etc.

- Also - and this is another reason why NEVER like to PvP in ESO, those PvP games had abilities to confront and counter most other classes and builds. You didn't get thrown against unknown players with your 5 abilities, hoping to be lucky to only meet classes you can fight back. Now, this is not so important if you lose nothing when you die. But it gets annoying to be ganked and lose your stuff to somebody you can't even fight back.

Just went to read all the way to page 9 (newest post at this point) just to make sure this hasn't been addressed and somehow people still haven't noticed this. What you said is exactly the problem, even if people notice it or not. With how stones are earned pve'rs need to go and grind mobs so the pvp'rs can go and farm the pve'rs. One group can't kill mobs effectively for the stones and the other group can't fight off the other with much hope for success. That is why a lot of people don't like this system, it is encouraging, even forcing, people to farm each other as if they were npc's.

Please, re-read the quoted post and tell me how this isn't the case.

Tonnopesce · July 2015

At the Restaurant...

The waiter:

"This evening we have fish with vegetables"

The guest:

"I dont like fish but i WANT the vegetables so i will take it"

The waiter:

" I have to tell you that there is some garlic on the fish, but since you dont like it anyway i belive is not a problem"

The guest:

"HELL NO tell the chef to remove ALL the garlic from ALL the plates, i dont like fish but i hate garlic"

Put PVE instead of vegetables, PVP insted of fish and CONSEQUENCES instead of garlic and you have the forums this days...

Sharee · July 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Just went to read all the way to page 9 (newest post at this point) just to make sure this hasn't been addressed and somehow people still haven't noticed this. What you said is exactly the problem, even if people notice it or not. With how stones are earned pve'rs need to go and grind mobs...

They do? Why? If the hate PvP so much, they can just leave the PvP-ers to duke it out, and buy the IC items on the market. Stones can only be obtained in the PvP area, but the stuff bought with them has no such limitation.

In fact, the PvE'rs don't even need to buy IC for this to work.

Pallmor · July 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

This is so frelling sad I am shocked to watch them drool over it..

I had really hoped this would be player friendly but it isn't - this is all about feeding sad trolls...

There is no player friendly options in pvp. All blues and reds must die when I am in pvp and vice versa. Build a pvp build and fight back or else don't come to cyrodill if your afraid of getting owned.

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

This is so frelling sad I am shocked to watch them drool over it..

I had really hoped this would be player friendly but it isn't - this is all about feeding sad trolls...

There is no player friendly options in pvp. All blues and reds must die when I am in pvp and vice versa. Build a pvp build and fight back or else don't come to cyrodill if your afraid of getting owned.

For sure, but you can't steal my gear - I expect you to try and kill me (and then die trying) but when one of us dies we keep the things we worked for.

You will have to be more cautious instead of having things handed to you .

But that's just the point I think - these things are not 'handed' to you, you get them by playing the game and killing daedra. They are no different in many ways to any other game item from gold pieces down to your shiny gold armour - you've done something in terms of time investment to earn them be it harvesting and selling stuff, earning AP by playing PvP or running high end PvE content to get particular sets.

I think I could get behind changing PvP so that if you ran and got killed with stones you'd lose a couple to any killer but the system they described last night seemed, to me, like an invitation to all the most spiteful kind of behaviours - personally I play games, at least partly, to get away from the sad realities of the worst facets of human nature so to hear ZOS are introducing a mechanic that encourages bad behaviour towards other players is a big problem.

I'm lucky enough to be in one of the better PvP guilds on my server & my personal KB to death ratio suggests I could do quite nicely from this on average especially if I chose to indulge in the kind of unpleasantness I fear others will be and pick on lowbies - my concerns here are largely about what this will do in terms of creating a negative environment in which to play that will drive more players from the game than it will attract.

Well said! With this expansion, ZOS is actively encouraging the worst sort of behavior in the game. In the broadcast, the developers even called it ganking and laughed about the idea of players having fun ganking other players. Do they really think that turning this game into a ruthless gankfest is going to HELP? Any new players you attract won't be the kind of players you want in your game.

Pallmor · July 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.

I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.

PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.

Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?

Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?

Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.

Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...

Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...

This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.

Agreed. I can only imagine the kind of ruthlessness and backstabbing behavior this will encourage. If I wanted a paranoid gankfest full of sociopaths, I would be playing EVE, not ESO.

CP5 · July 2015

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just went to read all the way to page 9 (newest post at this point) just to make sure this hasn't been addressed and somehow people still haven't noticed this. What you said is exactly the problem, even if people notice it or not. With how stones are earned pve'rs need to go and grind mobs...

They do? Why? If the hate PvP so much, they can just leave the PvP-ers to duke it out, and buy the IC items on the market. Stones can only be obtained in the PvP area, but the stuff bought with them has no such limitation.

In fact, the PvE'rs don't even need to buy IC for this to work.

Stones are given by daily quest and killing mobs. Pvp-er's want to kill other players, not mobs, and pvp builds are good at killing players, not mobs. Pvp players are unlikely to get distracted with killing powerful mobs when they are expecting and looking for pvp fights. Who gets the stones into the system then?

The pve-ers. Their builds kill mobs but leave them as easy targets for pvp-ers and when a pvp player finds them they have the pvp fight they were looking for. The IC needs pve players to get the stones into the system, unless those daily quest award a lot of stones, and it sets them up to be farmed by pvp-ers, who want to pvp for their stones.

Would you expect people who are playing the IC dlc for pvp to grind mobs to get stones? No, they want pvp, and the only way a large number of stones will get into that system is for someone to get the stones out of the mobs first, and those that do are cattle in the current system, set up to be farmed.

Tonnopesce · July 2015

Pallmor wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

This is so frelling sad I am shocked to watch them drool over it..

I had really hoped this would be player friendly but it isn't - this is all about feeding sad trolls...

There is no player friendly options in pvp. All blues and reds must die when I am in pvp and vice versa. Build a pvp build and fight back or else don't come to cyrodill if your afraid of getting owned.

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

This is so frelling sad I am shocked to watch them drool over it..

I had really hoped this would be player friendly but it isn't - this is all about feeding sad trolls...

There is no player friendly options in pvp. All blues and reds must die when I am in pvp and vice versa. Build a pvp build and fight back or else don't come to cyrodill if your afraid of getting owned.

For sure, but you can't steal my gear - I expect you to try and kill me (and then die trying) but when one of us dies we keep the things we worked for.

You will have to be more cautious instead of having things handed to you .

But that's just the point I think - these things are not 'handed' to you, you get them by playing the game and killing daedra. They are no different in many ways to any other game item from gold pieces down to your shiny gold armour - you've done something in terms of time investment to earn them be it harvesting and selling stuff, earning AP by playing PvP or running high end PvE content to get particular sets.

I think I could get behind changing PvP so that if you ran and got killed with stones you'd lose a couple to any killer but the system they described last night seemed, to me, like an invitation to all the most spiteful kind of behaviours - personally I play games, at least partly, to get away from the sad realities of the worst facets of human nature so to hear ZOS are introducing a mechanic that encourages bad behaviour towards other players is a big problem.

I'm lucky enough to be in one of the better PvP guilds on my server & my personal KB to death ratio suggests I could do quite nicely from this on average especially if I chose to indulge in the kind of unpleasantness I fear others will be and pick on lowbies - my concerns here are largely about what this will do in terms of creating a negative environment in which to play that will drive more players from the game than it will attract.

Well said! With this expansion, ZOS is actively encouraging the worst sort of behavior in the game. In the broadcast, the developers even called it ganking and laughed about the idea of players having fun ganking other players. Do they really think that turning this game into a ruthless gankfest is going to HELP? Any new players you attract won't be the kind of players you want in your game.

Pallmor wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.

I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.

PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.

Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?

Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?

Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.

Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...

Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...

This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.

Agreed. I can only imagine the kind of ruthlessness and backstabbing behavior this will encourage. If I wanted a paranoid gankfest full of sociopaths, I would be playing EVE, not ESO.

LOL have you been ganked?

The sistem how it is, is not PERFECT but we have the PTS for that, my only worry is that they have already announced a release date...

Tavore1138 · July 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.

I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.

PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.

Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?

Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?

Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.

Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...

Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...

This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.

I will.

I have 5 million gold and I don't even farm it. You don't think I wont have so many stones that I wont care about losing a few hundred or what not? With all these PvE players making up their mind before the DLC is even out and insisting they won't set foot in cyrodiil - as if were a radioactive wasteland they might become infected or something - you better believe I'll be farming those easy to kill mobs. And since I actually like questing in this game, I'm going to get a bunch of stones that even the best gankers out there won't ever be able to touch.

Yeah, I've said it a few times here myself - personally I enjoy a good quest, I don't suck at PvP either (a fair few of those boasting of their PvP skills here are on my PvP farm list) and I am lucky enough to be in a good PvP guild too. I think if I choose to participate in this I'll probably make out fairly well - doesn't mean I think that it is a good idea.

Pallmor · July 2015

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

Who gave YOU the idea that you are entitled to MY Tel Var stones? See how that works?

A simple as pie... PVP zone, you suck i get the loot.

If it's a PvP zone only, then why is all this juicy PvE content being stuffed inside of it? They should have divided the IC into two sections, one PvP space that functions like the rest of Cyrodiil, and one PvE space that has all the goodies in it that PvEers want to grind WITHOUT being robbed.

I'm NOT robbing you I EARN MY REWARD for killing you, since i usually dont kill mobs till dawn in order to get the loot i want,
i will camper your death body and wait for your pve friends.

I wish sometimes that Valkin Skoria had the possibilities to come in the forums, complaining about the fact that someone has looted his head 100 times a day.

And on a side note WE PLAY CYRODILL already why we should have MORE CYRODILL again?

Much in the same way as a mugger earns his reward by whacking me on the head and making off with my wallet. I don't deny the effort you put into it, but let's call it what it is: robbery. You are a thug making a living off other people's wealth. That is fine, it's an officially supported playstyle, no need to be ashamed and beat around the bush.

Nope, a better analogy is much in the same way a soldier fighting in a war, then he kills one of his enemies and take loot and trophies from his body, it's his prize for the fighting he did, shame of the one who died but such is war, Cyrodiil is a war-torn land, everything in Cyrodiil is about 3 alliances fighting this massive war to dethrone a dieing empire while still fighting a massive invasion from oblivion, don't want to get involved in a war? going to the middle of it isn't the way to go then

If I'm ever in a war, I really hope my unit doesn't have anyone in it with that kind of attitude.

Tavore1138 · July 2015

If they really do insist on this then one thing to balance the books - since the proto-gankers argue that this is war and that's what happens in war then I would suggest that, just like a real corpse robber, it will take them time to loot a corpse in a similar way that ressing takes time.

During that time they will be stationary and vulnerable just as if they were actually going through some dead persons pockets - and if they get jumped in turn while that is happening then they don't get the stones and run the risk of losing their own in the same manner.

If what you want is risk and consequence, rather than a cheap 'stab the PvE noob' fest, then this should provide it in full measure?

Tonnopesce · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

Who gave YOU the idea that you are entitled to MY Tel Var stones? See how that works?

A simple as pie... PVP zone, you suck i get the loot.

If it's a PvP zone only, then why is all this juicy PvE content being stuffed inside of it? They should have divided the IC into two sections, one PvP space that functions like the rest of Cyrodiil, and one PvE space that has all the goodies in it that PvEers want to grind WITHOUT being robbed.

I'm NOT robbing you I EARN MY REWARD for killing you, since i usually dont kill mobs till dawn in order to get the loot i want,
i will camper your death body and wait for your pve friends.

I wish sometimes that Valkin Skoria had the possibilities to come in the forums, complaining about the fact that someone has looted his head 100 times a day.

And on a side note WE PLAY CYRODILL already why we should have MORE CYRODILL again?

LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.

You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.

Well since you are the rich one farming easy mobs in order to obtain tons of TV stones and i'm Robin Hood...
I will happily stole a couple of stones from you, and help some poor pve'rs who can't play has much as you or are not strong like you to obtain the same gear you have... OOOOO YEAH i will become a hero!!!

Appleblade · July 2015

MCMancub wrote: »

I will never understand this community.
Community complains the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying.

ZOS implements Tel Var stones.

Community gets upset because there is now punishment for dying...in PvP.

*throws arms in the air and storms off*

Wow, so, like, a community of many individuals has subgroups with different opinions? How odd!!!

Pallmor · July 2015

Sharee wrote: »

In fact, the PvE'rs don't even need to buy IC for this to work.

That's the one thing I like about this expansion. It saves me $20 that I can spend on other things.