Much in the same way as a mugger earns his reward by whacking me on the head and making off with my wallet. I don't deny the effort you put into it, but let's call it what it is: robbery. You are a thug making a living off other people's wealth. That is fine, it's an officially supported playstyle, no need to be ashamed and beat around the bush.Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »
I'm NOT robbing you I EARN MY REWARD for killing you, since i usually dont kill mobs till dawn in order to get the loot i want,
i will camper your death body and wait for your pve friends.
I wish sometimes that Valkin Skoria had the possibilities to come in the forums, complaining about the fact that someone has looted his head 100 times a day.
And on a side note WE PLAY CYRODILL already why we should have MORE CYRODILL again?
Much in the same way as a mugger earns his reward by whacking me on the head and making off with my wallet. I don't deny the effort you put into it, but let's call it what it is: robbery. You are a thug making a living off other people's wealth. That is fine, it's an officially supported playstyle, no need to be ashamed and beat around the bush.
WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
Nope, a better analogy is much in the same way a soldier fighting in a war, then he kills one of his enemies and take loot and trophies from his body, it's his prize for the fighting he did, shame of the one who died but such is war, Cyrodiil is a war-torn land, everything in Cyrodiil is about 3 alliances fighting this massive war to dethrone a dieing empire while still fighting a massive invasion from oblivion, don't want to get involved in a war? going to the middle of it isn't the way to go then
Emma_Eunjung wrote: »LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.
You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.
Zershar_Vemod wrote: »
Except, you know, this entire thing is the first DLC for the game. You're might as well tell people to just uninstall the game all together with that attitude.
The title of this thread is too funny.
Attention ZOS: Please be able to differentiate between some kid complaining because he/she isn't getting their way vs. constructive criticism.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »
But thanks for revealing the emptiness of your own views by having to resort to fallacy.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »What I worry about reading many of the pro voices here is that, with some honourable exceptions, all the replies are basically aggressive to others and seem to have a legal requirement to get the word 'carebear' in somewhere.
That really only backs up my points.
Incidentally, and falling into the trap myself, quite a few of you also appear on my kill list but not on my killers list so... you know... bring it on...
I don't have to enjoy or approve of the system to be able to beat it.
In other points:
Those of us who sub will be 'buying' it regardless. Encouraging us to unsub means less funds to keep the game going.
@Septimus_Magna I think you have the best compromise there, not sure what the sweet spot would be for % loss on a kill but there must be a point that can satisfy those who want full consequence PvP and those who want consequence free PvP.
This NOT just a PvP update so stop pretending it is - it has PvE dungeons and PvE only zones along with questing. Those saying that their PvE content is being gated behind PvP have a good point. It's not a concern I sahe but it doesn't make it any less valid.
lordrichter wrote: »
So? Take it back. You are the law. Do something about it.
This is really what it boils down to, after all. Someone takes your sweetroll, go take it back.
Anywhere in the Imperial City that you can get Tel Var stones from NPCs will be a PVP zone with other players who can possibly come by and take your sweetroll. I am certain that gankers will hang out in the sewers near the Alliance safe zones trying to relieve returning players of their Tel Var stones. The whole Imperial City is designed to be risky and the PVE player that does not want to fight (or, like me, cannot win) will need to be extra careful.
If this is not your idea of fun, and a lot of people may find this to be the case, then don't go there. Orsinium is up next and that will have a ton of PVE game play, probably an increase in Veteran Rank to 18, new top end gear and motifs, and it will have nothing at all for the PVP players to do. It will be PVE nirvana.
It is not necessary to take your marbles and leave the game over this.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »actually it is more than just the dungeons, there is questing announced as well plus the data mined info suggests several of the six districts may be PvE only.
But like I say I play both PvP and PvE so not overly bothered by that aspect anyway....
My logic for subscribing has mainly been around supporting the game with a contribution to the revenue stream, chances are I'll actually buy DLC I like just in case I choose to stop subbing at some point... I also really like collecting mounts...
Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.
You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.
NO the stones are EARNED in pve and can be STOLEN in pvp wich you must cross to get to safety, eventhough said pvp nabs that steal have not EARNED said stones.
Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.
You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »
I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.
PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.
Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?
Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?
Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.
Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...
Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...
This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.
I have absolutely no reason to PvP in this game.
When I want to PvP, I log in into a real PvP game, without the exploiting, the lag, the zergs and the endless running back.
The IC concept is actually cool on paper... if they put it in DAoC or Warhammer Online.
But those were real PvP games:
- I did not need to change morphs, build and gear every time I wanted to PvE and then switch to PvP and back. This is huge. Doing Sanctum Ophidia with a PvP build is just an insult to your guild mates. However that awesome PvE build is completely useless for PvP.
- Top of the line gear did NOT rely on doing that content to be achieved. A griefer guild could not prevent everybody from getting new gear and improve.
- Who rolled on DAoC or Warhammer WANTED to PvP to begin with. Those games came with the purest PvP mark on them, whoever subbed to them knew he'd PvP all the time. Result: those who played those games (me included!) were only those who loved to PvP. There were no "PvEers hurled into PvP willing or not".
- Most of all, those games did not come with terrible mechanics like endless shields, endless (even if nerfed) teleporting, dodging etc. etc.
- Also - and this is another reason why NEVER like to PvP in ESO, those PvP games had abilities to confront and counter most other classes and builds. You didn't get thrown against unknown players with your 5 abilities, hoping to be lucky to only meet classes you can fight back. Now, this is not so important if you lose nothing when you die. But it gets annoying to be ganked and lose your stuff to somebody you can't even fight back.
Just went to read all the way to page 9 (newest post at this point) just to make sure this hasn't been addressed and somehow people still haven't noticed this. What you said is exactly the problem, even if people notice it or not. With how stones are earned pve'rs need to go and grind mobs...
SuraklinPrime wrote: »
But that's just the point I think - these things are not 'handed' to you, you get them by playing the game and killing daedra. They are no different in many ways to any other game item from gold pieces down to your shiny gold armour - you've done something in terms of time investment to earn them be it harvesting and selling stuff, earning AP by playing PvP or running high end PvE content to get particular sets.
I think I could get behind changing PvP so that if you ran and got killed with stones you'd lose a couple to any killer but the system they described last night seemed, to me, like an invitation to all the most spiteful kind of behaviours - personally I play games, at least partly, to get away from the sad realities of the worst facets of human nature so to hear ZOS are introducing a mechanic that encourages bad behaviour towards other players is a big problem.
I'm lucky enough to be in one of the better PvP guilds on my server & my personal KB to death ratio suggests I could do quite nicely from this on average especially if I chose to indulge in the kind of unpleasantness I fear others will be and pick on lowbies - my concerns here are largely about what this will do in terms of creating a negative environment in which to play that will drive more players from the game than it will attract.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »
I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.
PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.
Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?
Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?
Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.
Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...
Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...
This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.
They do? Why? If the hate PvP so much, they can just leave the PvP-ers to duke it out, and buy the IC items on the market. Stones can only be obtained in the PvP area, but the stuff bought with them has no such limitation.
In fact, the PvE'rs don't even need to buy IC for this to work.
Well said! With this expansion, ZOS is actively encouraging the worst sort of behavior in the game. In the broadcast, the developers even called it ganking and laughed about the idea of players having fun ganking other players. Do they really think that turning this game into a ruthless gankfest is going to HELP? Any new players you attract won't be the kind of players you want in your game.
Agreed. I can only imagine the kind of ruthlessness and backstabbing behavior this will encourage. If I wanted a paranoid gankfest full of sociopaths, I would be playing EVE, not ESO.
Joy_Division wrote: »
I will.
I have 5 million gold and I don't even farm it. You don't think I wont have so many stones that I wont care about losing a few hundred or what not? With all these PvE players making up their mind before the DLC is even out and insisting they won't set foot in cyrodiil - as if were a radioactive wasteland they might become infected or something - you better believe I'll be farming those easy to kill mobs. And since I actually like questing in this game, I'm going to get a bunch of stones that even the best gankers out there won't ever be able to touch.
WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
Nope, a better analogy is much in the same way a soldier fighting in a war, then he kills one of his enemies and take loot and trophies from his body, it's his prize for the fighting he did, shame of the one who died but such is war, Cyrodiil is a war-torn land, everything in Cyrodiil is about 3 alliances fighting this massive war to dethrone a dieing empire while still fighting a massive invasion from oblivion, don't want to get involved in a war? going to the middle of it isn't the way to go then
Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
LOL, what? If lose 100 stones out my inventory when you kill me, and your inventory gains 100 stones, then I got news for you, Robin Hood.... YOU ROBBED ME.
You can call it a "reward" or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you STOLE it.
I will never understand this community.
- Community complains the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying.
- ZOS implements Tel Var stones.
- Community gets upset because there is now punishment for dying...in PvP.
*throws arms in the air and storms off*