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Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...
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Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.5 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
I don't think many people will be satisfied with the system they have now. Pvp'ers will be sneaking around looking for players and pve'ers will be running around killing mobs. Pve'ers will spend their time getting ganked and pvp'ers won't be able to find a decent fight since even a well prepared pve'er won't have the build needed to fight back. But yah, those easy kills, such a proud thing to boast about.2 -
Etharian✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
and i guarantee you would not last 1 week in a real business with your logic, just because your mad about something and do not like it does not make it "They got the whole risk VS reward thing all wrong" . Let me guess you are a PVER? how does the PVER only have the risk if a player kills you then has to in turn be cautious on his way back to try to save those stones he got off you cause if he gets ganked/killed.... guess what! he loses all the stones as well! That is how Risk VS rewards works whether you like it or not.2 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
Exactly. PVPers want risk and reward? Then when they die in cyriodiil they should loose 100% of thier AP (the ap that goes toward leaderboards). Or maybe if they want moar risk they should lose their alliance rank skill.4 -
Etharian✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
Exactly. PVPers want risk and reward? Then when they die in cyriodiil they should loose 100% of thier AP (the ap that goes toward leaderboards). Or maybe if they want moar risk they should lose their alliance rank skill.
how is that any different from losing stones to get gear? losing skills is probably the same amount of risk if it was that way. your logic is flawed.0 -
Lunerdog✭✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
Dont be surprised Mr Prime, a keyboard is the only backbone that those types of warriors have, what is surprising and a tad dismaying is the fact that Zen don't appear to be able to comprehend the long term effects of what they're doing.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Bashing & Slanderous Comments]Edited by ZOS_Brett on July 19, 2015 7:51PM3 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
Exactly. PVPers want risk and reward? Then when they die in cyriodiil they should loose 100% of thier AP (the ap that goes toward leaderboards). Or maybe if they want moar risk they should lose their alliance rank skill.
how is that any different from losing stones to get gear? losing skills is probably the same amount of risk if it was that way. your logic is flawed.
Its not. The risk and reward that PVPers want should be relate only and only to PVP aspect to game.
AP and alliance war skill are only related to PVP there is no PVE way to obtain them. If ZOS would use AP as part of Risk and reward system there would be no *** because that would be actually fair.
The subject of PVP risk and reward would be actually the people who do PVP.
Not right now, like with TV stones where PVE players are dragged in, lured into IC and are practically mules to farm TV stones and then they will be thrown to PVP players who will run around cheering "risk and reward risk and reward"while they rob them from their work.3 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AnAngryGinger wrote: »What PVP fans don't understand is they've added this mechanic and put new PVE content in a PVP area. If PVE players had new content solely for them, none of this would be an issue.
MMO =/= PVP
PVP is just one aspect.
There is some PvE content in there, but you can only earn stones in the PvP areas. :-(
NO the stones are EARNED in pve and can be STOLEN in pvp wich you must cross to get to safety, eventhough said pvp nabs that steal have not EARNED said stones.
I watched the broadcast and I'm pretty sure the guy said that you can only earn stones in PvP zones. You earn them through PvE combat but the zones are all PvP enabled. So watch your back and heal fast after combat, or the ganker Nightblade cloaked off screen might one-shot you the second after you kill the boss.
NPC's in a PVP zone indeed don't magically make it a pve area.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭The 100% loss of something that might take you hours to achieve is a complete turn off for me and many in my guild.
This content all comes across as forced PvP with a splash of PvE content to try to justify a DLC cost, when it was suppose to be a content update shortly after launch.
It has been almost 2 years ZOS! In that time most other MMOs have an expansion to announce.
3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
Continuing your forum habit of ignorance I see.
First of all, the assumption that a good player has zero risk is false simply on the basis that every faction has good players, and the fact that multiple bad players can work together to bring down a good one.
Second of all, there are people who enjoy both PvE & PvP, and both PvE & PvP have many subgroups of players looking for different things in a MMO.
Since I probably need to explain this, let me elaborate:
Not every PvE player is interested in questing.
Not every PvE player is interested in small group content.
Not every PvE player is interested in big epic raids.
Not every PvPer is interested in zerging and taking the same keeps over & over again.
Not every PvPer is interested in high risk/reward content.
Not every PvPer is interested in Arenas/BGs.
Does this mean none of this should ever exist? Of course not.
If you do not enjoy high risk/reward gameplay, then go take keeps & zerg or keep demanding Arenas/BGs from ZOS (I know I will).
If you do not enjoy PvP altogether, then stay out of it: go do the two new group dungeons, or dungeons scaled for V16.
Or simply wait for Orsinium/Murkmire.5 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭To be fair, they just said that PvE questers will be rewarded with boxes of TV stones that can't be looted. You can wait until you get to the bank to open up the boxes. So, not as bad as I thought.
You still have to do these quests in the PvP zones. So as a PvE player you are being forced to PvP to get your rewards.4 -
Romo✭✭✭✭I really do not understand this desire of some people for segregation.
The Imperial City has always been, even since before ESO's release, conceptualized and advertised as a combined PvE and PvP space, much like popular areas in earlier MMOs. This is an entirely different scenario from pure PvE or pure PvP. Not only did we know about this for over a year, we were looking forward to it. If they had suddenly changed the direction of development to a pure PvE/PvP space, lots of people would be devastated.
Considering this, it really takes some gall for people to demand that ZOS has to take the PvP aspects out of IC. If you only want pure PvE, the Imperial City was never for you. You should be happy they are adding 2 new group dungeons, both normal and veteran versions.
And your threats that you won't buy IC because of this only harms the game in the long run. If you don't like it, by all means, don't buy it. But I'm glad they are not bending the original design of the IC just to sell more DLC.
You are either intentionally missing the point of the majority of the posts, or missed the main thrust completely.
The majority of the "pvers" and not all are just pvers, feel the validation by ZOS of a griefing game style aka gankers is not-palatable. But since they feel so now Zos should change its TOS etc. to state in bold letters, "WE SUPPORT and ENCOURAGE the GRIEFING of other players."4 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
I'm exclusively a PvE player and I love the TV system.I really do not understand this desire of some people for segregation.
The Imperial City has always been, even since before ESO's release, conceptualized and advertised as a combined PvE and PvP space, much like popular areas in earlier MMOs. This is an entirely different scenario from pure PvE or pure PvP. Not only did we know about this for over a year, we were looking forward to it. If they had suddenly changed the direction of development to a pure PvE/PvP space, lots of people would be devastated.
Considering this, it really takes some gall for people to demand that ZOS has to take the PvP aspects out of IC. If you only want pure PvE, the Imperial City was never for you. You should be happy they are adding 2 new group dungeons, both normal and veteran versions.
And your threats that you won't buy IC because of this only harms the game in the long run. If you don't like it, by all means, don't buy it. But I'm glad they are not bending the original design of the IC just to sell more DLC.
You are either intentionally missing the point of the majority of the posts, or missed the main thrust completely.
The majority of the "pvers" and not all are just pvers, feel the validation by ZOS of a griefing game style aka gankers is not-palatable. But since they feel so now Zos should change its TOS etc. to state in bold letters, "WE SUPPORT and ENCOURAGE the GRIEFING of other players."
Yet people seem hellbent on differentiating between PvE and PvP players here. Why is that if it's supposedly not a PvE vs PvP issue?
Besides, there is no griefing here. Nobody is ruining anyone's experience outside of the rules of the game.Edited by Faulgor on July 18, 2015 5:20PMAlandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭I will never understand this community.
- Community complains the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying.
- ZOS implements Tel Var stones.
- Community gets upset because there is now punishment for dying...in PvP.
*throws arms in the air and storms off*
The concerns about this content is because players have been content starved for a long time now and this content that they want you to pay $25.00 for is really just a PvP content update that was suppose to be in the game shortly after launch. It is not well rounded content that offers true PvE for many players. It is PvP with a bit of PvE tossed in the middle.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I really do not understand this desire of some people for segregation.
The Imperial City has always been, even since before ESO's release, conceptualized and advertised as a combined PvE and PvP space, much like popular areas in earlier MMOs. This is an entirely different scenario from pure PvE or pure PvP. Not only did we know about this for over a year, we were looking forward to it. If they had suddenly changed the direction of development to a pure PvE/PvP space, lots of people would be devastated.
Considering this, it really takes some gall for people to demand that ZOS has to take the PvP aspects out of IC. If you only want pure PvE, the Imperial City was never for you. You should be happy they are adding 2 new group dungeons, both normal and veteran versions.
And your threats that you won't buy IC because of this only harms the game in the long run. If you don't like it, by all means, don't buy it. But I'm glad they are not bending the original design of the IC just to sell more DLC.
You are either intentionally missing the point of the majority of the posts, or missed the main thrust completely.
The majority of the "pvers" and not all are just pvers, feel the validation by ZOS of a griefing game style aka gankers is not-palatable. But since they feel so now Zos should change its TOS etc. to state in bold letters, "WE SUPPORT and ENCOURAGE the GRIEFING of other players."
Reading the comments, I'm starting to think most of these players deserve to get griefed. Sorry.1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
and i guarantee you would not last 1 week in a real business with your logic, just because your mad about something and do not like it does not make it "They got the whole risk VS reward thing all wrong" . Let me guess you are a PVER? how does the PVER only have the risk if a player kills you then has to in turn be cautious on his way back to try to save those stones he got off you cause if he gets ganked/killed.... guess what! he loses all the stones as well! That is how Risk VS rewards works whether you like it or not.
I guarantee you that you are full of it. I have run two very successful businesses and I am retired before age 50. I did that by listening to my customers. Not thinking I knew better than them what they wanted.7 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
I don't think many people will be satisfied with the system they have now. Pvp'ers will be sneaking around looking for players and pve'ers will be running around killing mobs. Pve'ers will spend their time getting ganked and pvp'ers won't be able to find a decent fight since even a well prepared pve'er won't have the build needed to fight back. But yah, those easy kills, such a proud thing to boast about.
In the scenario you depicted, all the PvP-ers are playing on one side, and all the PvE-ers are playing on the other side. If that was the case, then it would indeed be a field day for the PvP-ers.
But that is not the case. Both sides will have PvP players in IC, and both sides will have PvE players in IC. There is no such thing as 'easy kill', because at any moment you could get jumped by an enemy PvP player, likely just as you engage the enemy 'easy mark', because the enemy PvP-er was waiting just for that(i know i will).0 -
Nephys✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
I guarantee you that you are full of it. I have run two very successful businesses and I am retired before age 50. I did that by listening to my customers. Not thinking I knew better than them what they wanted.
Bravo. That statement is also very astute when taking ZoS's track record into account.
ZoS Ambassadors please do not bother responding to me because I have you on ignore. Your input is neither valued or welcomed.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At the end of the day, Imperial City and Cyrodiil are PvP zones. Period.
The more that I read and hear about how this is structured, ZoS has actually gone a very long ways towards facilitating PvE players here when they don't have to in the first place.
1. You can bank the stones
2. You can port straight into the dungeons there
3. You will get boxes of stones that cannot be looted
4. The crafting zones are in a safe location
5. The spawn points where you start are in a safe location
6. They have intentionally made it so there is very little advantage in large groups zerging people due to diminishing returns on looted stones
7. You will be able to buy all this gear from Guild Stores if you absolutely hate PvP, just like it is right now.
Honestly it sounds to me like the only people at risk of losing a large amount of stones are the players that knowingly farm PvP contested areas for stones w/o taking the time to go put them in the bank.
Like I said, at the end of the day, this is a PvP zone. If you step into a boxing ring, you should expect to get punched.
There is a new solo PvE zone right around the corner. IC is purely optional. There is nothing mandatory about it. And there are already so many PvE friendly elements involved in this PvP zone that I just don't get all the hysteria.Edited by Alphashado on July 18, 2015 9:17PM6 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.
I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.
PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.
Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?
Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?
Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.
Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...
Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...
This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.
I will.
I have 5 million gold and I don't even farm it. You don't think I wont have so many stones that I wont care about losing a few hundred or what not? With all these PvE players making up their mind before the DLC is even out and insisting they won't set foot in cyrodiil - as if were a radioactive wasteland they might become infected or something - you better believe I'll be farming those easy to kill mobs. And since I actually like questing in this game, I'm going to get a bunch of stones that even the best gankers out there won't ever be able to touch.
Yeah, I've said it a few times here myself - personally I enjoy a good quest, I don't suck at PvP either (a fair few of those boasting of their PvP skills here are on my PvP farm list) and I am lucky enough to be in a good PvP guild too. I think if I choose to participate in this I'll probably make out fairly well - doesn't mean I think that it is a good idea.
I didn't read the 11 pages of the thread. I did happen, however, notice that you have posted on every page crusading against the idea. If you posted an alternative, I missed it. Sorry. Just a lot of complaining and insisting it's a bad idea is all I have seen.
I think the fundamental premise that this is a PvP zone, that has PvE sprinkled in, is fine. I see in this thread a false dichotomy being raised a lot. Apparently we are either PvE carebears or PvP griefers. That's not fine. I love PvP. I love PvE. I like the interconnection between the two. I am a part of the ESO community even though many people apparently believe my money, my playing preferences, my idea of fun is not worthy or significant enough to warrant attention from ZoS. But when a new trial comes out and I am "forced" to PvE to get the best gear, that will apparently be OK. Whatever.
Your first post may have got a lot of agrees, but said nothing of substance. I'm a sad troll. Well gee thanks. When you have something constructive to write, let me know. As I said, maybe you did. I think somewhere you wrote that it should take time to loot a body. That has potential. If you have others aside from railing, why aren't they in the original post?
For the record, I don't think a 100% exchange of stones is how I would have adopted the system. Not with the broken CC that comes with NBs spamming fear. Not with the zerg inflicted deaths where you stand zero chance of victory, let alone escape, if you are a DK or Templar. I don't think one bad moment - especially in a game that isn't exactly stable, let alone balanced - should invalidate all the "work" that apparently goes into nuking zombies with a 100% success rate. I would have made it so a percentage of your stones are always safe.2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PVP is good. Player looting not good. I dont know how I can put it any simpler than that.9 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.
I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.
PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.
Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?
Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?
Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.
Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...
Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...
This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.
I will.
I have 5 million gold and I don't even farm it. You don't think I wont have so many stones that I wont care about losing a few hundred or what not? With all these PvE players making up their mind before the DLC is even out and insisting they won't set foot in cyrodiil - as if were a radioactive wasteland they might become infected or something - you better believe I'll be farming those easy to kill mobs. And since I actually like questing in this game, I'm going to get a bunch of stones that even the best gankers out there won't ever be able to touch.
Yeah, I've said it a few times here myself - personally I enjoy a good quest, I don't suck at PvP either (a fair few of those boasting of their PvP skills here are on my PvP farm list) and I am lucky enough to be in a good PvP guild too. I think if I choose to participate in this I'll probably make out fairly well - doesn't mean I think that it is a good idea.
I didn't read the 11 pages of the thread. I did happen, however, notice that you have posted on every page crusading against the idea. If you posted an alternative, I missed it. Sorry. Just a lot of complaining and insisting it's a bad idea is all I have seen.
I think the fundamental premise that this is a PvP zone, that has PvE sprinkled in, is fine. I see in this thread a false dichotomy being raised a lot. Apparently we are either PvE carebears or PvP griefers. That's not fine. I love PvP. I love PvE. I like the interconnection between the two. I am a part of the ESO community even though many people apparently believe my money, my playing preferences, my idea of fun is not worthy or significant enough to warrant attention from ZoS. But when a new trial comes out and I am "forced" to PvE to get the best gear, that will apparently be OK. Whatever.
Your first post may have got a lot of agrees, but said nothing of substance. I'm a sad troll. Well gee thanks. When you have something constructive to write, let me know. As I said, maybe you did. I think somewhere you wrote that it should take time to loot a body. That has potential. If you have others aside from railing, why aren't they in the original post?
For the record, I don't think a 100% exchange of stones is how I would have adopted the system. Not with the broken CC that comes with NBs spamming fear. Not with the zerg inflicted deaths where you stand zero chance of victory, let alone escape, if you are a DK or Templar. I don't think one bad moment - especially in a game that isn't exactly stable, let alone balanced - should invalidate all the "work" that apparently goes into nuking zombies with a 100% success rate. I would have made it so a percentage of your stones are always safe.
I made a separate suggestion thread here: LINKIE
Basically after disregarding most of the 'me hate all pvp' or 'me l33t gank you n00b' type response and trying to come up with something that might work for everyone to get some fun.GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »God forbid there be a little danger out in the world, but whatever.
Interesting how none of you brave keyboard warriors has responded to the suggestion that corpse looting could take time (like ressing) during which you'd be vulnerable and interuptable - looks like you guys are happy when others are at risk but unwilling to take much risk yourselves.
I do like that suggestion actually, it'd encourage teamplay & the sense of danger would still be there.
Also, it'd make low risk playstyles such as sniping less appealing.
Yeah, but you can actually play - I know you are honestly looking for a new challenge not just a chance to backstab noobs
This is exactly why the supposed "hardcore" people love the idea of IC. They can attack people who dont know how to fight and wont be able to counter anything. In Cyrodill all they fight are other people good at PVP but with IC they get to kill people with literally zero risk fo them even getting hit much less dying. Its what all people who enjoy open pvp want. Easy marks they can kill. They dont want real challenge or they would enjoy pvp as it is now.
The whole risk vs reward is skewed. The risk is all on the PVE players while the reward is 100% given to the people who have no risk at all. Who the heck thought this was a good idea down at ZOS? If I was Zenimax Id start cleaning house. They need to hire new people get back to what the elder scrolls is.
Exactly. PVPers want risk and reward? Then when they die in cyriodiil they should loose 100% of thier AP (the ap that goes toward leaderboards). Or maybe if they want moar risk they should lose their alliance rank skill.
how is that any different from losing stones to get gear? losing skills is probably the same amount of risk if it was that way. your logic is flawed.
No your reading comprehension is flawed. Hes obviously stating that if PvPers want risk that everything they earn with no risk of loss in Cyrodiil should be lost upon death. But none of them are demanding that because the reality is. They arent at risk in this new TV Stone Mechanism. The PvEers are. Those praising this know they can exploit the system for an easy reward while leeching it off of someone who actually earned it. The PvPers that are praising this have very little to lose as theyll be moving with friends, grouped or not, and the pay out is quite significant if they hit someone who has been farming for a while.Edited by Korah_Eaglecry on July 18, 2015 5:52PMPenniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax3 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really do not understand this desire of some people for segregation.
The Imperial City has always been, even since before ESO's release, conceptualized and advertised as a combined PvE and PvP space, much like popular areas in earlier MMOs. This is an entirely different scenario from pure PvE or pure PvP. Not only did we know about this for over a year, we were looking forward to it. If they had suddenly changed the direction of development to a pure PvE/PvP space, lots of people would be devastated.
Considering this, it really takes some gall for people to demand that ZOS has to take the PvP aspects out of IC. If you only want pure PvE, the Imperial City was never for you. You should be happy they are adding 2 new group dungeons, both normal and veteran versions.
And your threats that you won't buy IC because of this only harms the game in the long run. If you don't like it, by all means, don't buy it. But I'm glad they are not bending the original design of the IC just to sell more DLC.
This is by far what I am frankly most bugged by - the fact that a lot of people seem to be, well... ignoring the facts. Those are that for ONCE, we are finally getting an update with content delivered from a promise now older than dirt, lol
I am actually ecouraged by the information, piece mealed though it is as USUAL but that is a separate and very old gripe for a different thread.... What is clear is that we are now getting what we where told about IC even during beta, let alone during the Guild Summit and QuakeCon last year. It's now finally here.
That said, I still think part of the "QQ train" problem is due to ZoS still being extremely poor at PR and marketing, despite all impressions to the contrary at face value. Forget that ESO Live presentations continue to be rather lame and sometimes downright embarrasing to watch... they still just completely lack any real skill to clearly announce and promote content additions in a way that are inclusive of both new and old players understanding of the game. They have just never EVER been any good at this.
Had they made it clear from the get go in the annoucement and promotion of this update that we are getting the first major PvP content update to the game, I think we would have seen a lot less issue with all this. Because, as we know, when all is said and done that is what IC for this game has always supposed to have been about.
That they devised the TV system to accompany IC I think is very well done, and frankly I hope we see a similar system get implemented for high end PvE content, such as for the true raids which were promised by that now departed four letter word from ZoS who I cannot ever name.... another promise, now older than dirt we are still waiting to see get delivered.
Meantime, at least there are some options for fun, even if in small doeses, for us non PvP folk.1 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭The rhetoric surrounding this is unreal. Looks like I might have to add ganker and carebear to my signature.
My advice is, don't buy it if you don't like. Cliche or not, your wallet will speak the loudest. I understand there is content you may be interested in, but if you really want to see a change you're going to have to sacrifice.
Edit*
After reading through this some more I swear you people lift entire phrases from your respective political leaders.Edited by J2JMC on July 18, 2015 6:25PMKnee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert1 -
markt84✭✭✭Let's give it a chance before everyone wants to say how horrible it is. It adds risk/reward for PvP, while at the same time added in ways to for people that just want to pve to keep them in a chest, you just won't get the multiplayer. But like everything the decided to do, this forum says how horrible it is. I mean the crappy champion points were added because people kept crying about the VR levels.1
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Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's give it a chance before everyone wants to say how horrible it is. It adds risk/reward for PvP, while at the same time added in ways to for people that just want to pve to keep them in a chest, you just won't get the multiplayer. But like everything the decided to do, this forum says how horrible it is. I mean the crappy champion points were added because people kept crying about the VR levels.
It adds RISK to PVE content of IC and REAWRD to PVP content of IC.
There is nothing fair in this.
If stones would come PURELY from player kills then i would agree its PVP risk and reward.
If the subject of die'n'lose would be AP that are acquired only in PVP content then it would be PVP risk and reward.
Current system is not fair. Its RISK in PVE and REWARD for the PVP.11 -
Carde✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really do not understand this desire of some people for segregation.
The Imperial City has always been, even since before ESO's release, conceptualized and advertised as a combined PvE and PvP space, much like popular areas in earlier MMOs. This is an entirely different scenario from pure PvE or pure PvP. Not only did we know about this for over a year, we were looking forward to it. If they had suddenly changed the direction of development to a pure PvE/PvP space, lots of people would be devastated.
Considering this, it really takes some gall for people to demand that ZOS has to take the PvP aspects out of IC. If you only want pure PvE, the Imperial City was never for you. You should be happy they are adding 2 new group dungeons, both normal and veteran versions.
And your threats that you won't buy IC because of this only harms the game in the long run. If you don't like it, by all means, don't buy it. But I'm glad they are not bending the original design of the IC just to sell more DLC.
You are either intentionally missing the point of the majority of the posts, or missed the main thrust completely.
The majority of the "pvers" and not all are just pvers, feel the validation by ZOS of a griefing game style aka gankers is not-palatable. But since they feel so now Zos should change its TOS etc. to state in bold letters, "WE SUPPORT and ENCOURAGE the GRIEFING of other players."
Your biggest mistake is just generalizing all PvP as griefing. Seriously, quit trying to be a victim so hard, its disturbing.
Players killing players in a zone designed and intended for killing players doesn't make everybody a bunch of zit faced sociopaths living out fantasies of revenge against their bullies. You're utterly ridiculous to be this afraid of your character dying to another player.
Try to calm down and have some *** fun and leave your comfort zone for once.Member of the Psijic Order PTS Group3
