Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

Tonnopesce

Sharee wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

The only problem with this update is that 2 of the 3 factions will always be outnumbered from the one who have acces in that moment, and this is against a small group playstile since it will encurage zerging for the TV loot,, something HAS to change or the IC will fail badly

Actually, i think this is a good thing. It will help balance unequal populations in cyrodiil.

Say AD has control of IC. They will be the most numerous inside, yes, but this will weaken them outside, in regular cyrodiil, because IC and cyrodiil share a single population cap. This will in turn help the other alliances take IC control away from AD(say, by EP).

AD loses control, but this does not kick them out of IC, they just lose the ability to respawn there. So you now have IC full of AD, but their numbers will slowly dwindle, because EP can now respawn in IC, but AD can't. This will continue until enough AD have been kicked out that they now can mount a counter-offensive in outer cyrodiil to recapture IC access.

All factions will be split in two, IC part and cyro part, and the populations will ebb and flow between the two based on who has access atm. No longer will an overpopulated faction control outer cyrodiil 24/7 with a single mega-zerg. And as a bonus, this will help cut down on the lag.

I do agree that it is how it will work but when a faction will gain the acces there will be sooooo many of them that the only thing that they will do is zerg blast evry single other player inside and start doing pve, gain TV stones , but from the time they have gained it another zerg blast run will start from another faction, and on and on.

Sadly i belive that a month in PTS is not enought to test this new sistem.

RazzPitazz

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

The only problem with this update is that 2 of the 3 factions will always be outnumbered from the one who have acces in that moment, and this is against a small group playstile since it will encurage zerging for the TV loot,, something HAS to change or the IC will fail badly

Actually, i think this is a good thing. It will help balance unequal populations in cyrodiil.

Say AD has control of IC. They will be the most numerous inside, yes, but this will weaken them outside, in regular cyrodiil, because IC and cyrodiil share a single population cap. This will in turn help the other alliances take IC control away from AD(say, by EP).

AD loses control, but this does not kick them out of IC, they just lose the ability to respawn there. So you now have IC full of AD, but their numbers will slowly dwindle, because EP can now respawn in IC, but AD can't. This will continue until enough AD have been kicked out that they now can mount a counter-offensive in outer cyrodiil to recapture IC access.

All factions will be split in two, IC part and cyro part, and the populations will ebb and flow between the two based on who has access atm. No longer will an overpopulated faction control outer cyrodiil 24/7 with a single mega-zerg. And as a bonus, this will help cut down on the lag.

I do agree that it is how it will work but when a faction will gain the acces there will be sooooo many of them that the only thing that they will do is zerg blast evry single other player inside and start doing pve, gain TV stones , but from the time they have gained it another zerg blast run will start from another faction, and on and on.

Sadly i belive that a month in PTS is not enought to test this new sistem.

Only if you have the IC DLC though.

Tavore1138

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

So how about when i play a single player game and forgot to save befoure a boss battle, then the boss drop an awesome loot and a trash mob kills me... It happen countless times and (i belive) to evryone, what you do? You go cry in the forums?

They have mentioned ways to"save" your TV stones so just dont forget to do it...

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.

I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.

PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.

Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?

Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?

Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.

Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...

Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...

This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.

Pvp in eso is NOT all about teamplay , is just the only rewarding playstile atm .
A person like me who has no on-line friends in the game ( they all play destiny... Sadly) and do pvp most of the time alone will be finally rewarded for having a ganker playstile.

The only problem with this update is that 2 of the 3 factions will always be outnumbered from the one who have acces in that moment, and this is against a small group playstile since it will encurage zerging for the TV loot,, something HAS to change or the IC will fail badly

It is pretty much all about team play - even if you are not in a group then you still get the best AP and the best XP and the best loot by helping to ensure your alliance wins the campaign. There is nothing wrong with being a stealth player, if you are roaming solo it's one of the best choices, but even then most players are still trying to support their team.

But this risks rewarding a specific style of ganker who is commonly known as the griefer - the same sort of person who camps corpses or newbie spawn points and gets their jollies by out and out spoiling the play experience of others.

MissBizz

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Oh and don't forget you can't make VR15/16 gear unless you play gankfest PvP.

Witcher 3 here I come...

I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if i am repeating what someone else already said, but the above is not true.

You can make VR15/16 gear without even entering IC because other players can take the materials out and sell them to you.

I may have missed that - I was in PvP while I was watching it so my attention was split, but it seemed like they made a lot of references to the stones being bound to the player so you couldn't trade them about to avoid the risk of loss?

@SuraklinPrime yes, the stones are very much so bound in that way. The items you purchase with the stones however, are not. So you can sell the gear/mats that you buy with stones.

Tavore1138

F7sus4 wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

Magicka NBs Dark Cloaking away...

LOL as a fellow NB I find it endearing that you still have faith that cloak will work

Tavore1138

MissBizz wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Oh and don't forget you can't make VR15/16 gear unless you play gankfest PvP.

Witcher 3 here I come...

I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if i am repeating what someone else already said, but the above is not true.

You can make VR15/16 gear without even entering IC because other players can take the materials out and sell them to you.

I may have missed that - I was in PvP while I was watching it so my attention was split, but it seemed like they made a lot of references to the stones being bound to the player so you couldn't trade them about to avoid the risk of loss?

@SuraklinPrime yes, the stones are very much so bound in that way. The items you purchase with the stones however, are not. So you can sell the gear/mats that you buy with stones.

Thanks for the clarification, the cost of these items is probably going to be a key part of whether this system is remotely feasible.

But potentially we're going to have some very gold rich griefers as they loot stones and then get to sell the kit they buy at inflated prices, reminds me a bit of the people in the early days who would systematically killed vamp/ww spawns simply so they could sell their bites.

The_Sadist

MCMancub wrote: »

I will never understand this community.

1. Community complains the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying.
2. ZOS implements Tel Var stones.
3. Community gets upset because there is now punishment for dying...in PvP.

*throws arms in the air and storms off*

Actually, no.

A MINORITY complains that the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying, a MAJORITY (of PvE based players for the most part, I doubt a majority of PvP based players care) complain. I personally dislike PvP and dislike the planned system, but hey, not much I can do about it.

RazzPitazz

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Oh and don't forget you can't make VR15/16 gear unless you play gankfest PvP.

Witcher 3 here I come...

I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if i am repeating what someone else already said, but the above is not true.

You can make VR15/16 gear without even entering IC because other players can take the materials out and sell them to you.

I may have missed that - I was in PvP while I was watching it so my attention was split, but it seemed like they made a lot of references to the stones being bound to the player so you couldn't trade them about to avoid the risk of loss?

@SuraklinPrime yes, the stones are very much so bound in that way. The items you purchase with the stones however, are not. So you can sell the gear/mats that you buy with stones.

Thanks for the clarification, the cost of these items is probably going to be a key part of whether this system is remotely feasible.

But potentially we're going to have some very gold rich griefers as they loot stones and then get to sell the kit they buy at inflated prices, reminds me a bit of the people in the early days who would systematically killed vamp/ww spawns simply so they could sell their bites.

The problem is that those giefers have to learn to actually defend themselves now.

Tonnopesce

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

So how about when i play a single player game and forgot to save befoure a boss battle, then the boss drop an awesome loot and a trash mob kills me... It happen countless times and (i belive) to evryone, what you do? You go cry in the forums?

They have mentioned ways to"save" your TV stones so just dont forget to do it...

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.

I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.

PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.

Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?

Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?

Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.

Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...

Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...

This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.

Pvp in eso is NOT all about teamplay , is just the only rewarding playstile atm .
A person like me who has no on-line friends in the game ( they all play destiny... Sadly) and do pvp most of the time alone will be finally rewarded for having a ganker playstile.

The only problem with this update is that 2 of the 3 factions will always be outnumbered from the one who have acces in that moment, and this is against a small group playstile since it will encurage zerging for the TV loot,, something HAS to change or the IC will fail badly

It is pretty much all about team play - even if you are not in a group then you still get the best AP and the best XP and the best loot by helping to ensure your alliance wins the campaign. There is nothing wrong with being a stealth player, if you are roaming solo it's one of the best choices, but even then most players are still trying to support their team.

But this risks rewarding a specific style of ganker who is commonly known as the griefer - the same sort of person who camps corpses or newbie spawn points and gets their jollies by out and out spoiling the play experience of others.

Oooo the myghty 20 vs 1 i saw these people all the times and the worst thing that they do is gank gankers after they have defeated theyr opponent in a 1v1 fight.

But usually i just cloak away...

Non Nb or even stamina NB will have a bad time in the IC

I know that is unusual to see a player like me, when i see a 1v1 fight i just leave them be most of the people try to outnumber the opponent instead of do a good fight and this is what will happen inside the city, again numbers will win not players...

F7sus4

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

Magicka NBs Dark Cloaking away...

LOL as a fellow NB I find it endearing that you still have faith that cloak will work

As a "fellow NB" i ran through 20+ raid with the "failing" Cloak without loosing a life, numerous times. (Also, according to last ESO Live episode, Dark Cloak issue should be finally addressed in the next big patch.)

LEGENDARYYY

Go play tetris then. You sure wont get ganked there.

RazzPitazz

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Go play tetris then. You sure wont get ganked there.

Late game long rectangles will gank your score.

eonowakb16_ESO

If the ones that are zerg'ed have not any opportunity to gain Stones they ones that zerg them will get no Stones. So pure zerging will not work.

MsPtibiscuit

I can't believe are really complaining about a system like that. This is the first time ESO devs try to do something different than the typical themepark content, and people, without even trying the system, are already unhappy.

You guys really need to get out of this "progression" mentality. Stop thinking that you have to have 62 stones by the end of the evening, and if you can't achieve that, then it is the fault of the game or bad gamedesign.
Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

People often forget that while full-loot PvP (The way stone works is similar to that) lets jerks play like jerks, it also lets white knights play like white knights. If you don't like the gankers, go form a group and patrol the area to protect the members of your faction.
That's what happened in BDO where a player pacified a region where spawn-killers were active. It's the kind of *** you can't do without spawn-killers in the first place.

Septimus_Magna

The_Sadist wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

I will never understand this community.

1. Community complains the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying.
2. ZOS implements Tel Var stones.
3. Community gets upset because there is now punishment for dying...in PvP.

*throws arms in the air and storms off*

Actually, no.

A MINORITY complains that the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying, a MAJORITY (of PvE based players for the most part, I doubt a majority of PvP based players care) complain. I personally dislike PvP and dislike the planned system, but hey, not much I can do about it.

You can go on the PTS, test how it works and give constructive criticism. Eric Wrobel said that they will adjust the percentage of Tel Var stones you lose when you die IF the community thinks the 100% rate is too much. Personally I think this will be adjusted to 50% or something because most PVE-ers are very much against the idea of losing all the stones in your inventory.

You will also earn Tel Var stone boxes, if you dont open these you wont lose them when another player kills you.

eonowakb16_ESO

The_Sadist wrote: »

A MINORITY complains that the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying, a MAJORITY (of PvE based players for the most part, I doubt a majority of PvP based players care) complain. I personally dislike PvP and dislike the planned system, but hey, not much I can do about it.

From where do you know it is a MAJORITY or a MINORITY? Did you do some statistic research on it? You have valid numbers, what the players, especially the ones that are not in the forum, because they have no reason to complain, are thinking? I doubt that.

It was known for months that this DLC will be a mainly PvP Update. Be happy that it is not only PvP and you get some new nice Dungeons. If you are PvE only player you can complain about that there is not enough content for you playstyle, but you can not complain about mechanics that are designed for PvP

Tonnopesce

eonowakb16_ESO wrote: »

If the ones that are zerg'ed have not any opportunity to gain Stones they ones that zerg them will get no Stones. So pure zerging will not work.

O a great point my dear tonnopesce.... Lol

Zerging the zerg that zerg the zerg... I belive that the few that have gained a stone will immediatly come to cry in the forums...

Fetaro

Everything I feared ? I didn't fear it, I still don't fear it, and I don't see why the drama. Stop being such a crybaby/spoiled brat, and be a real man.

Oh, btw, I'm a PvE guy, and I don't do Cyrodil.

Tonnopesce

Fetaro wrote: »

Everything I feared ? I didn't fear it, I still don't fear it, and I don't see why the drama. Stop being such a crybaby, and be a man.

Oh, btw, I'm a PvE guy, and I don't do Cyrodil.

Ha ha you will fear ME!!!! (Charges and drop mass hiserya )

KerinKor

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

Get it through your thick skull .. MANY PEOPLE HATE PVP AND DON'T WANT IT!"

This system has nothing for them, at all, their gear progression ends at the point they need stones because ZOS is pandering to the PVP minority and forcing the PVE majority to endure PVP ... at which many won't be very good as it's a playstyle that loathe and have no interest in .. as a sop to the PVP whiners.

Tonnopesce

KerinKor wrote: »

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

Get it through your thick skull .. MANY PEOPLE HATE PVP AND DON'T WANT IT!"

This system has nothing for them, at all, their gear progression ends at the point they need stones because ZOS is pandering to the PVP minority and forcing the PVE majority to endure PVP ... at which many won't be very good as it's a playstyle that loathe and have no interest in .. as a sop to the PVP whiners.

DONT BUY IT AND STOP COMPLAINING WAIT FOR ORSINUM AND LET US HAVE OUR UPDATE FINALLY

Faulgor

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

LEGENDARYYY

KerinKor wrote: »

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

Get it through your thick skull .. MANY PEOPLE HATE PVP AND DON'T WANT IT!"

This system has nothing for them, at all, their gear progression ends at the point they need stones because ZOS is pandering to the PVP minority and forcing the PVE majority to endure PVP ... at which many won't be very good as it's a playstyle that loathe and have no interest in .. as a sop to the PVP whiners.

WHO said you HAVE to play IC?? Who said theres no vr16 gear outside of IC?? If you don't wanna play it, the dont. Come to my guild stores and buy the gear instead if you want good IC gear. I'll make sure to stock up stores with good items cus I will pwn noobs all day

Bromburak

KerinKor wrote: »

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

Get it through your thick skull .. MANY PEOPLE HATE PVP AND DON'T WANT IT!"

Ok, not your game. Thanks bye.

WolffenBloodseeker

Faulgor wrote: »

I swear if the carebears are getting ZOS to tear this great feature down again there is truly no hope for this game as an MMO.

Who gave you the idea that you are entitled to Tel Var stones? You lose absolutely nothing by not collecting them yourself.
Want VR16 gear? Collect loot from scaled group dungeons, craft it yourself or buy it with gold.
Want the specific new PvP gear from Tel Var vendors? Buy them from players with gold.

There are ways for you around the Tel Var system if you are such a delicate flower that you can't bear actually losing something once in a while. For everybody else, it actually makes good game design.

THIS, so much this, i like PVE and PVP in eso, since the release of the game, MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, we only had PVE updates, this is the FIRST PVP UPDATE (that add a feature instead of removing them for fixing sploitable mechanics that never return), if you don't like PVP don't buy this DLC, it's so simple!, all group dungeons (normal and vet versions) WILL SCALE UP TO VET 16 INCLUDING THEIR LOOT, the cyrodiil vendors WILL SELL VET 15-16 GEAR, you can play the two new dungeons and their vet versions WITHOUT TAKING PART IN ANY PVP (just travel to them like you do to a dungeon in another alliance), you can BUY THE NEW GEAR EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE DLC FROM OTHER PLAYERS, there is NOTHING blocking your progession here even if you hate PVP, stop crying people and let us finally have some love for PVP, this and the justice system PVP part are the only PVP updates announced in the future while they have already announced that the following zones are in work: Orsinium, clockwork city, murkmire, Abah's landing, Mephala's realm, ALL PVE UPDATES

The Imperial City is the first DLC being release because it was promised SINCE THE BETA OF ESO, this was the first update announced alongside Craglorn and only now we are receiving it, i can't wait for it, ESO is the first game since DAOC that made me interested in PVP again (while before i was a PVE only player in all other MMOs) and the imperial city will be the cherry atop the cake of Cyrodiil, just like Darkness Fall was in Dark Age of Camelot.

DDuke

KerinKor wrote: »

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

Get it through your thick skull .. MANY PEOPLE HATE PVP AND DON'T WANT IT!"

This system has nothing for them, at all, their gear progression ends at the point they need stones because ZOS is pandering to the PVP minority and forcing the PVE majority to endure PVP ... at which many won't be very good as it's a playstyle that loathe and have no interest in .. as a sop to the PVP whiners.

There's two new group dungeons coming with the DLC, feel free to play them instead (zero % PvP) and understand that by catering only to PvErs (which I am myself as well) this game will never succeed.

Carde

Canceled my city water services today.




Figure I can just gather tears here for a while and save some money.

Emma_Overload

Freeman wrote: »

SOOO much whining and complaining.... it's ridiculous.

Why won't anyone actually read this?: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics

You can still easily get V16 weapons and armor by just running the IC dungeons. No pvp required. And guess what? You can get the materials to craft V16 armor from deconstructing V16 items! Not that hard to understand. You don't NEED the stones to get V16 gear. My god. The stones are just *another* way to get V16 gear and mats.

You zone into the sewers in a SAFE zone, then you can take the ladders to any of the districts. Who knows if any of the districts won't have pvp as a possibility, but just go discover the dungeon and form/queue for a group outside of Cyrodiil.... and once you leave IC through the dungeons you're teleported to your alliance's capital city, so no threat to losing your precious stones you earned in there, just go deposit them in your bank.

Really people. Stop complaining. There are plenty of ways for you to safeguard your stones. Just be intelligent about it.

Those are group dungeons, though. It remains to be seen if they can be soloed. Also, if history is any guide, you will probably only be able to get good loot from the Veteran versions of the dungeons.

GaldorP

I think there's a few things we don't know yet.

- Will Tel Var stones also drop in the two new PvE group dungeons?
- Or will other new items sets drop there?

As long as stones can be secured by depositing them in your personal bank in your alliance's safe base within the Imperial City, I don't have any problem with the fact that you can loose the stones you carry when you die.

As far as I can tell, these stones are the currency needed to buy some of the best new set items in the game. I like the concept that the best gear in the game actually has to be earned

I really hope the equippable items you can buy with Tel Var stones can be traded though, and are not bound. That way, people who prefer to do PvE things can just farm nirncrux stones, alchemy materials, or plain gold, do PvE dungeons or trials, or fish and can then buy the Tel Var set items from other players who've been hunting stones in the Imperial City instead.

What I do NOT like is a loot system that encourages hunting in a large group in the Imperial City.
If 1 Cunning Scamp drops 1 Tel Var stone when killed by a single player, but drops 12 Tel Var stones (one for each player) when killed by 12 players, that makes hunting in as large a group as possible the dominant strategy (you get a lot more stones in the same time and your chances of survival are much better when you encounter enemy players).

So my wishlist would be:
-> No bound gear, please. Make things rare and hard to get but tradable!
-> Change the loot system to a fixed amount of loot per monster that is split among all players. If you multiply loot by the number of players that contributed in fighting a monster as the system is working now (each player gets their own loot), hunting in the largest possible group where this system still works (the maximum used to be 12 players for bosses) becomes the dominant strategy.

Sharee

GaldorP wrote: »

I think there's a few things we don't know yet.

- Will Tel Var stones also drop in the two new PvE group dungeons?
- Or will other new items sets drop there?

We do know the first, and the answer is no.

Eric Wrobel, yesterday's livestream, 01:21:25