Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.

That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.

They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.

New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.

"new gear and items" the crown shop is giving you new gear and items. If they are "epic" weapons like EQ with hard quests that really feel unique and challenging I would say yeah that would keep in interested.

"new dungeons, trials, new lands" will all seem the same if you are the same and not progressing or feeling like you are getting more powerful. If you are the same level you will see the new dungeons, trials and new lands in a week and be board again. If you had to complete the areas to earn something then you may keep interested longer.

The Crown store is not giving the types of items I'm talking about and you and I both know that. I'm talking about adding new, unique sets and items like the master weapons or monster helms. Something that is gameplay altering and something to work towards. It is a form progression, regardless of how you personally define progression.

Game altering items you say? Master weapons and monster helms are not game altering, in many cases they are not even worth having for the micro difference they make to chars. Adding bigger numbers is a form of progression for sure, but one that makes most games go down the road of ruin. EQ was the best game for 4 or 5 years then they just started adding bigger and bigger numbers to things WOW the same thing.

ESO with spellcrafting had the ability to create a true new progression system that was not adding levels or bigger numbers on items.

The store and its unique items might as well be progression because that is all weapon and item progression is look at me I have the new cool thing of the moment. Progression based off true skill is one that I wanted to see, but it has not happened so I still am waiting for a truly unique MMO.

Many of them alter certain game mechanics or change the capabilities of what an ability can do. It might not be major, but it is indeed gameplay altering in the fact that it changes the way you might use said abilities.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...

VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?

It seems to me that this is the point of VR levels. There is still leveling when doing zones after the main story is done, but the gap between the strength of characters post-50 is diminished. That is a good thing as it makes it possible for non-max level players to still contribute in PvP or to take part in grouping in Craglorn. If there is going to be leveling while doing Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, better that there are only few levels than many. If leveling post-50 was like pre-50, people in the second zone of Cadwell's Gold would be about twice as powerful (stat-wise) as people in the first zone of Cadwell's Silver.

Regarding crafting, didn't they just tack on a skill to provisioning a few weeks ago? There are plenty of levels in some crafting professions where there are no new skills long before 50. Leveling to 50 in Enchanting might one day be needed. But, eventually, they will run out of space for leveling. I suppose they could just redistribute crafting skill unlocks and increase the XP needed to level a profession.

I dunno about the rest of this thread but for me adding V16 really bothers me for the simple reason that the hard work I've put into making my V14 gear legendary, the countless hours I've put into the vet pledges and trials has just gotten a little bit worthless. Now I don't want to do that kind of work again. What if ZoS adds V18? V20? I don't want to commit to my gear on this level again if I'm unsure about what the peak can be.

Thank you, ZoS. For showing us that you couldn't be bothered to follow through with your plans, again.

Getting rid of veteran ranks was one of the best ideas I heard. Nobody likes the grind, but I assume it doesn't matter to you with your crown store EXP boosts and all that.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Game altering items you say? Master weapons and monster helms are not game altering, in many cases they are not even worth having for the micro difference they make to chars. Adding bigger numbers is a form of progression for sure, but one that makes most games go down the road of ruin. EQ was the best game for 4 or 5 years then they just started adding bigger and bigger numbers to things WOW the same thing.

ESO with spellcrafting had the ability to create a true new progression system that was not adding levels or bigger numbers on items.

The store and its unique items might as well be progression because that is all weapon and item progression is look at me I have the new cool thing of the moment. Progression based off true skill is one that I wanted to see, but it has not happened so I still am waiting for a truly unique MMO.

When they add new content, I want new levels included for my character to reach as it completes content. I suppose CP fill this role to some degree.

lathbury wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

so removing them progresses your character how?

It allows all characters who reach level 50 to participate in trials, craglorn, and veteran dungeons, it opens up the game.

You have a horizontal progression system in CP's, you don't need a vertical one

Increasing the VR means if you aren't capped, good luck finding a group, especially as a tank. You don't find groups as a VR3 tank for veteran dungeons.

wrong cp's are not horizontal lol 25% boost to all stats is way more than vr's give. as for good look finding a group if your not capped if they reduce the level to 50 and scale the dungeons to 50 1)you wont get a group till your 50.will they be scaled to zero cp's cause if so most ppl will anhilate them thus reducing endgame content further. If they are scaled higher and you have any less than what they are scaled at say 100 and guess what you still wont get an inv to top groups.

In short vet ranks to dont gate content nearly as much as cp's could and atm a v3 is capable of doing vet dsa if played well.

Yeah, CPs would be horizontal if everyone automatically had 3600 CP and could distribute how they wished. The current system is clearly vertical.

Zheg wrote: »

I would say I'm speechless at witnessing yet another event where ZOS demonstrates how absolutely clueless they are, but then I'd by lying.

I literally lol'd when I read the summary notes for ESO live. The incompetence is strong with these ones.

Where are these summary notes?

lathbury wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

so removing them progresses your character how?

It allows all characters who reach level 50 to participate in trials, craglorn, and veteran dungeons, it opens up the game.

You have a horizontal progression system in CP's, you don't need a vertical one

Increasing the VR means if you aren't capped, good luck finding a group, especially as a tank. You don't find groups as a VR3 tank for veteran dungeons.

wrong cp's are not horizontal lol 25% boost to all stats is way more than vr's give. as for good look finding a group if your not capped if they reduce the level to 50 and scale the dungeons to 50 1)you wont get a group till your 50.will they be scaled to zero cp's cause if so most ppl will anhilate them thus reducing endgame content further. If they are scaled higher and you have any less than what they are scaled at say 100 and guess what you still wont get an inv to top groups.

In short vet ranks to dont gate content nearly as much as cp's could and atm a v3 is capable of doing vet dsa if played well.

CP's are Horizontal. CP's don't affect hit/miss calculations in combat the way vertical levels do, and also don't affect what gear you can wear.

If the cap is 50, then each person finishing their main alliance/storyline will be able to equip the same gear that they can get, and decide what they want to do. Do they want to solo? They can do cadwell's silver/gold. Do they want to do small group content? They can do vet dungeons or craglorn or DSA Do they want large group content? They can do Trials. While people with hundreds of CP will do Trials faster and with fewer deaths, a person with 0CP will still be able to do them.

If the cap is VR16, then after they complete their alliance/storyline they HAVE to do silver/gold, or aoe grind mobs to get their VR's up. After they finish Gold they'll STILL need to aoe grind mobs or do repeatable quests before any group will consider taking them anywhere, because they won't be VR16.

so you basically want to nerf all vet characters to 50 then and all content thus reducing the current game by approximately 2/3rds. As opposed to adding an alternate path to max vr and new things to do. also while not effecting gear cp's can boost dps 25% and surviablity by around the same which is way more than gear and vet levels account for so some content is either gonna be faceroll easy for those with enough cp's or harder than current vet dungeons are now for those without as at least most content scales.

To some degree, yes. Though it wouldn't have been as bad if ZOS wasn't incompetent and kept the VR cap at 10, and then removed VR's. Them adding on more VR's was stupid and is going to make their eventual removal harder, they're just digging themselves a deeper hole. VR's were a bandaid solution to an end game problem to begin with. The initial cap was supposed to be 50, but they wanted people to be able to do the other storylines and do these adventure zones and vet dungeons and trials that they had planned.. so they added veteran ranks to give incentive to do so. They realized soon after launch their bandaid was not popular so they promised to take it off, initially, they said they were going to remove it by pulling on one hair at a time, thinking that'd make taking it off hurt less. But as they've gone forward they pulled one hair, and then pushed the bandaid back down by adding more ranks, just adding to the pain of the entire situation.

With a cap of 50 with CP, it means you can earn those CP with a choice of endgame options. With VR's you take away one of those options and make it mandatory instead. Some people don't want to grind solo quests or aoe grind mobs in order to play group content. They want to dive into group content, they play MMO's to group, not solo. So forcing 2 more entire alliances of solo questing on them causes them to quit playing the game. All my friends quit because of this, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people quit when they reach VR's partially because of this. Extending a solo focused gameplay this long just isn't appealing for an MMO.

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

All the content they have promised should have been at RELEASE, at LEVEL 50! VR has been a year long crutch because ESO lacked content - and still is.

I don't understand this comment.

Yes, VR is not content. Cadwell's Silver is content. Cadwell's Gold is content. Craglorn is content.

VR is just leveling. It isn't a crutch. It is just a change in certain mechanics of leveling at level 50. Ideally, doing the content I mention above would get a player to VR14. Perhaps they messed up the math on that. VR is no more a 'crutch' than levels 1-50 are a crutch.

ESO has a lot of content. It just lacks satisfying repeatable content for many players who play enough to get through the main content of the 3 alliances a few months after launch. You might feel the decision to want everyone to complete Cadwell's metals was a poor choice, and I can respect that view.

My monitor broke so I've been on about one month hiatus... and this this is what I come back to? No new content, but more Veteran Ranks?! What? Who thought this was a good idea? Not even Molag Bal would be this devious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilcRS5eUpwk

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.

One of the few things I've appreciated that came from a developers mouth is that you all want players to feel good about their gear. Players feel good when their gear is the max level and rarity. For example, the difference in price between two of the same named items that have a minor stat difference due to a couple of levels or rarity can be 3 to 10 times. That is because players want to feel good about their gear.

So we have a common goal. Everyone wants to feel good about their gear. Here is the problem brewing though. We mostly felt good about our gear going from 1.5 to 1.6. Then we had to change everything and spend hundreds of thousands of gold to upgrade. Now a bit later we are starting to feel good about our gear again. As part of the specifics that you get into I expect that you all reconcile what going to a higher VR rank means for gear that currently exists.

Many players spend hundreds of hours to have the highest level trial gear, undaunted sets, and master weapons. Don't you dare not let us upgrade these things to the new level cap. And I don't mean upgrade by getting the item again from a higher level instance. I mean change the level of the item.

Something else you could do is not give the player base something that they don't need and hardly want in lieu of what they do want. Stop making the player base second guess everything that they have done. Stop this business model that involves breaking promises at every convenient step of the way.

Wow, I am really surprised! More VR levels you say? I could not have seen this coming!

Honestly, this game just gets more and more disappointing to me. I'd like to just give up, but I love the Elder Scrolls universe, so I am guess I am stuck here until ES VI

arena25 wrote: »

Ok, guys, I know we all have opinions, and I know a lot of folks don't like the idea of Veteran Rank 16 (or Veteran Ranks at all), but holy crabapples. I feel like I'm in the River Styx...which is a far cry from the 30,000 feet I'm sitting at right now.

I really can't share a demonstration video of what I'm about to tell you here (again because I'm sitting at 30,000 feet), but please do me all a favor:

As soon as I say the word "GO!", do the following...

1. Push back from your desk.
2. Get out of your chair.
3. Go to your kitchen.
4. Heat up some green tea. Do so by taking a packet of green tea and placing it in a mug. Then boil some water using a stove.
5. While the tea is being prepared, take 5 deep breaths. Do so by inhaling through your nose as much as you can. Hold for a count of 3, then exhale through your mouth. Place one hand on your belly and another on your chest. Your chest should inflate more than your belly.
6. When water is boiling, pour water into mug. Let sit for a few minutes, then remove packet.
7. Drink the tea you just made.
8. Go sit back down in your chair.
9. Ask yourself, "Do I really want to post this?"

Result: Less offensive posts, leading to a better and more civil discussion.

Ready?

GO!

These posts are not offensive... The tone of these posts are what you make them... I see a general discussion on differences of opinion.

arena25 wrote: »

Ok, guys, I know we all have opinions, and I know a lot of folks don't like the idea of Veteran Rank 16 (or Veteran Ranks at all), but holy crabapples. I feel like I'm in the River Styx...which is a far cry from the 30,000 feet I'm sitting at right now.

I really can't share a demonstration video of what I'm about to tell you here (again because I'm sitting at 30,000 feet), but please do me all a favor:

As soon as I say the word "GO!", do the following...

1. Push back from your desk.
2. Get out of your chair.
3. Go to your kitchen.
4. Heat up some green tea. Do so by taking a packet of green tea and placing it in a mug. Then boil some water using a stove.
5. While the tea is being prepared, take 5 deep breaths. Do so by inhaling through your nose as much as you can. Hold for a count of 3, then exhale through your mouth. Place one hand on your belly and another on your chest. Your chest should inflate more than your belly.
6. When water is boiling, pour water into mug. Let sit for a few minutes, then remove packet.
7. Drink the tea you just made.
8. Go sit back down in your chair.
9. Ask yourself, "Do I really want to post this?"

Result: Less offensive posts, leading to a better and more civil discussion.

Ready?

GO!

ZOS doesn't deserve civil posts when they keep telling us bold faced lies.

They deserve for their game to fail, their company to fold and everyone be laid off, and then sit long and hard and think about what they did to end up on unemployment.