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No to VR16
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Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
This is stupid really Sorry but it is. So you are propisng to change the name of vet ranks to levles and that equals removing vet ranks? Are you one of those people that belive rebranding ESO to ESO TU was a complete relaunch?
The problem with vet levels has to do with story and how you level, 1-50 is so smooth and works well... then you hit vet levels and you are maxed out on all your skills so you dont "change". You are the same vet 1 to 14 just takes forever and nothing is new...
You hit the nail right there. Add to that gating content with ranks and we are done.
exactly so your problem is not with vet ranks its with a lack of content.
a) to give you multiple ways to get exp be it through questing in NEW zones doing dungeons delves or pvp what you want is options and not be forced to do silver and gold or grind.
b) content that is fun and scales better so less requirment to be max level
Its Character progression content... Once your skills are level 50 your "main level" (VRwhatever) does not really matter. Your skills are what make me want to play... I cant wait to get level 50 because I get another "spell" when all my skill lines are maxed you get CP, but that does not make any real differences to my game play.
When they thought about spellcrafting that would change my char and make me want to advance.
If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...
VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?
0 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭simontheriault1b16_ESO wrote: »A real slap to the face to people with multiple VR14 characters. I REALLY don't feel like going 2x VR levels per alt to be able to use maxed out gear
To me the worst thing is not the actual increase in veteran ranks. But more so the lying that went toAkavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
Which is/was the Champion System. Now what will become of the Champion System, considering it was added as a replacement for the Veteran Rank system.If you can be anything, be kind.0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
This is stupid really Sorry but it is. So you are propisng to change the name of vet ranks to levles and that equals removing vet ranks? Are you one of those people that belive rebranding ESO to ESO TU was a complete relaunch?
The problem with vet levels has to do with story and how you level, 1-50 is so smooth and works well... then you hit vet levels and you are maxed out on all your skills so you dont "change". You are the same vet 1 to 14 just takes forever and nothing is new...
You hit the nail right there. Add to that gating content with ranks and we are done.
exactly so your problem is not with vet ranks its with a lack of content.
a) to give you multiple ways to get exp be it through questing in NEW zones doing dungeons delves or pvp what you want is options and not be forced to do silver and gold or grind.
b) content that is fun and scales better so less requirment to be max level
Its Character progression content... Once your skills are level 50 your "main level" (VRwhatever) does not really matter. Your skills are what make me want to play... I cant wait to get level 50 because I get another "spell" when all my skill lines are maxed you get CP, but that does not make any real differences to my game play.
When they thought about spellcrafting that would change my char and make me want to advance.
If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...
VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?
so removing them progresses your character how?Edited by lathbury on July 3, 2015 12:32AM0 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/162 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
This is stupid really Sorry but it is. So you are propisng to change the name of vet ranks to levles and that equals removing vet ranks? Are you one of those people that belive rebranding ESO to ESO TU was a complete relaunch?
The problem with vet levels has to do with story and how you level, 1-50 is so smooth and works well... then you hit vet levels and you are maxed out on all your skills so you dont "change". You are the same vet 1 to 14 just takes forever and nothing is new...
You hit the nail right there. Add to that gating content with ranks and we are done.
exactly so your problem is not with vet ranks its with a lack of content.
a) to give you multiple ways to get exp be it through questing in NEW zones doing dungeons delves or pvp what you want is options and not be forced to do silver and gold or grind.
b) content that is fun and scales better so less requirment to be max level
Its Character progression content... Once your skills are level 50 your "main level" (VRwhatever) does not really matter. Your skills are what make me want to play... I cant wait to get level 50 because I get another "spell" when all my skill lines are maxed you get CP, but that does not make any real differences to my game play.
When they thought about spellcrafting that would change my char and make me want to advance.
If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...
VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?
so removing them progresses your character how?
I dont think they should remove them... I'm just stating why people hate VR levels... Its not that they take so much exp and time its because there is no reward for time.0 -
Akavir_Sentinel✭✭✭✭✭
✭JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
If you had bothered to watch him explain it, what you are suggesting is the exact same thing we have now except you are calling them levels instead of veteran ranks. It's the exact same thing.0 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
I agree.
One of the charms of any single player Elder Scrolls game was the liberation from the gear grind. The ability and usefulness of ones equipment was tided to the player, not the equipment. And really that's the way it should be. The Champion System was a step in the right direction; one where progression was achieved through character experiences in the game, not based on some materialistic treadmill.
The leveling - and resultant gear grind - that has been around for decades is so passe, it's really unfortunate that Zenimax does not - or chooses not to - acknowledge this.Edited by Rev Rielle on July 3, 2015 12:41AMIf you can be anything, be kind.1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
This is stupid really Sorry but it is. So you are propisng to change the name of vet ranks to levles and that equals removing vet ranks? Are you one of those people that belive rebranding ESO to ESO TU was a complete relaunch?
The problem with vet levels has to do with story and how you level, 1-50 is so smooth and works well... then you hit vet levels and you are maxed out on all your skills so you dont "change". You are the same vet 1 to 14 just takes forever and nothing is new...
You hit the nail right there. Add to that gating content with ranks and we are done.
exactly so your problem is not with vet ranks its with a lack of content.
a) to give you multiple ways to get exp be it through questing in NEW zones doing dungeons delves or pvp what you want is options and not be forced to do silver and gold or grind.
b) content that is fun and scales better so less requirment to be max level
Its Character progression content... Once your skills are level 50 your "main level" (VRwhatever) does not really matter. Your skills are what make me want to play... I cant wait to get level 50 because I get another "spell" when all my skill lines are maxed you get CP, but that does not make any real differences to my game play.
When they thought about spellcrafting that would change my char and make me want to advance.
If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...
VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?
so removing them progresses your character how?
I dont think they should remove them... I'm just stating why people hate VR levels... Its not that they take so much exp and time its because there is no reward for time.
if that were true ppl wouldnt be bothered either way about getting to the max level.
I geniunely think its A because of the time involved and B because of the narrow chocices of how to get there (grind for days or do silver gold)
solve these two and people wont care
0 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
"new gear and items" the crown shop is giving you new gear and items. If they are "epic" weapons like EQ with hard quests that really feel unique and challenging I would say yeah that would keep in interested.
"new dungeons, trials, new lands" will all seem the same if you are the same and not progressing or feeling like you are getting more powerful. If you are the same level you will see the new dungeons, trials and new lands in a week and be board again. If you had to complete the areas to earn something then you may keep interested longer.0 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
"new gear and items" the crown shop is giving you new gear and items. If they are "epic" weapons like EQ with hard quests that really feel unique and challenging I would say yeah that would keep in interested.
"new dungeons, trials, new lands" will all seem the same if you are the same and not progressing or feeling like you are getting more powerful. If you are the same level you will see the new dungeons, trials and new lands in a week and be board again. If you had to complete the areas to earn something then you may keep interested longer.
How are you progressing in vet ranks?Are you getting new skills with them?1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rev Rielle wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
I agree.
One of the charms of any single player Elder Scrolls game was the liberation from the gear grind. The ability and usefulness of ones equipment was tided to the player, not the equipment. And really that's the way it should be. The Champion System was a step in the right direction; one where progression was achieved through character experiences in the game, not based on some materialistic treadmill.
The leveling - and resultant gear grind - that has been around for decades is so passe, it's really unfortunate that Zenimax does not - or chooses not to - acknowledge this.
so replacing the gear grind with a never ending cp grind is better how are they gonna scale content what are the rewards for doing said content. gear was also tied to character experiences much more closely than cp for eg do a trial get trial loot unlike cp where if you do a trial you get less cp then someone who spent the same time grinding mobs.
how will balance things like pvp with a brand new 50 with no cp and the pc player i saw today with 1000?1 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
This is stupid really Sorry but it is. So you are propisng to change the name of vet ranks to levles and that equals removing vet ranks? Are you one of those people that belive rebranding ESO to ESO TU was a complete relaunch?
The problem with vet levels has to do with story and how you level, 1-50 is so smooth and works well... then you hit vet levels and you are maxed out on all your skills so you dont "change". You are the same vet 1 to 14 just takes forever and nothing is new...
You hit the nail right there. Add to that gating content with ranks and we are done.
exactly so your problem is not with vet ranks its with a lack of content.
a) to give you multiple ways to get exp be it through questing in NEW zones doing dungeons delves or pvp what you want is options and not be forced to do silver and gold or grind.
b) content that is fun and scales better so less requirment to be max level
Its Character progression content... Once your skills are level 50 your "main level" (VRwhatever) does not really matter. Your skills are what make me want to play... I cant wait to get level 50 because I get another "spell" when all my skill lines are maxed you get CP, but that does not make any real differences to my game play.
When they thought about spellcrafting that would change my char and make me want to advance.
If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...
VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?
so removing them progresses your character how?
I dont think they should remove them... I'm just stating why people hate VR levels... Its not that they take so much exp and time its because there is no reward for time.
if that were true ppl wouldnt be bothered either way about getting to the max level.
I geniunely think its A because of the time involved and B because of the narrow chocices of how to get there (grind for days or do silver gold)
solve these two and people wont care
A majority of the people who I know who quit (I admit its only 5 people) all left after getting VR1-4, all of them said "what is the point" The main story is done, your skills are maxed leveling VR1-14 is boring no matter how you do it because the char you play is the same. IF CPs had skills and abilities attached to them this would solve this problem. In EQ they added *** that really changed how you could play...CPs in ESO are not an advancement system that really matters...0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭All the content they have promised should have been at RELEASE, at LEVEL 50! VR has been a year long crutch because ESO lacked content - and still is.1 -
ZOS_JessicaFolsomCommunity ManagerHey everyone,
We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.6 -
Akavir_Sentinel✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.
We know. That still won't stop the chicken littles from continuing this train wreck of a thread though.6 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rev Rielle wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
I agree.
One of the charms of any single player Elder Scrolls game was the liberation from the gear grind. The ability and usefulness of ones equipment was tided to the player, not the equipment. And really that's the way it should be. The Champion System was a step in the right direction; one where progression was achieved through character experiences in the game, not based on some materialistic treadmill.
The leveling - and resultant gear grind - that has been around for decades is so passe, it's really unfortunate that Zenimax does not - or chooses not to - acknowledge this.
so replacing the gear grind with a never ending cp grind is better how are they gonna scale content what are the rewards for doing said content. gear was also tied to character experiences much more closely than cp for eg do a trial get trial loot unlike cp where if you do a trial you get less cp then someone who spent the same time grinding mobs.
how will balance things like pvp with a brand new 50 with no cp and the pc player i saw today with 1000?
If you want to Grind CP that's entirely up to you, but that CP system was a long term system. That's been discussed in many threads already over the past six months. I don't think it needs to be brought up here.
You still get loot, no one said it was going away. It's not a mutually exclusive system. It's just one that's built on the foundation of something else other than the level/gear grind that is present in 100's of other MMOs.
If you can be anything, be kind.0 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
"new gear and items" the crown shop is giving you new gear and items. If they are "epic" weapons like EQ with hard quests that really feel unique and challenging I would say yeah that would keep in interested.
"new dungeons, trials, new lands" will all seem the same if you are the same and not progressing or feeling like you are getting more powerful. If you are the same level you will see the new dungeons, trials and new lands in a week and be board again. If you had to complete the areas to earn something then you may keep interested longer.
How are you progressing in vet ranks?Are you getting new skills with them?
Nope like I said there is no progression with vet ranks, or CP... that is what is wrong with the system... vet ranks gone or here to stay wont fix the underlining problem with the game. The "base" skill system is broken.0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
This is stupid really Sorry but it is. So you are propisng to change the name of vet ranks to levles and that equals removing vet ranks? Are you one of those people that belive rebranding ESO to ESO TU was a complete relaunch?
The problem with vet levels has to do with story and how you level, 1-50 is so smooth and works well... then you hit vet levels and you are maxed out on all your skills so you dont "change". You are the same vet 1 to 14 just takes forever and nothing is new...
You hit the nail right there. Add to that gating content with ranks and we are done.
exactly so your problem is not with vet ranks its with a lack of content.
a) to give you multiple ways to get exp be it through questing in NEW zones doing dungeons delves or pvp what you want is options and not be forced to do silver and gold or grind.
b) content that is fun and scales better so less requirment to be max level
Its Character progression content... Once your skills are level 50 your "main level" (VRwhatever) does not really matter. Your skills are what make me want to play... I cant wait to get level 50 because I get another "spell" when all my skill lines are maxed you get CP, but that does not make any real differences to my game play.
When they thought about spellcrafting that would change my char and make me want to advance.
If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...
VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?
so removing them progresses your character how?
I dont think they should remove them... I'm just stating why people hate VR levels... Its not that they take so much exp and time its because there is no reward for time.
if that were true ppl wouldnt be bothered either way about getting to the max level.
I geniunely think its A because of the time involved and B because of the narrow chocices of how to get there (grind for days or do silver gold)
solve these two and people wont care
A majority of the people who I know who quit (I admit its only 5 people) all left after getting VR1-4, all of them said "what is the point" The main story is done, your skills are maxed leveling VR1-14 is boring no matter how you do it because the char you play is the same. IF CPs had skills and abilities attached to them this would solve this problem. In EQ they added *** that really changed how you could play...CPs in ESO are not an advancement system that really matters...
really all there skills were maxed i call bs as there are not enough skill points in the game at v14 even to max every line. also how is removing vet ranks going to advance the story more than adding content as per my suggestion?
it sounds like you now want cps as well as vet ranks removed so basically you want no progression of any kind. Im more inclined to agree with the removal of cp's though as it makes balancing more difficult and adds another layer of near indefinite progression gating newer players from things.
but its was all the qq over vet ranks that got the IMHO opinion rushed CP system implementedEdited by lathbury on July 3, 2015 12:52AM1 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...
This is stupid really Sorry but it is. So you are propisng to change the name of vet ranks to levles and that equals removing vet ranks? Are you one of those people that belive rebranding ESO to ESO TU was a complete relaunch?
The problem with vet levels has to do with story and how you level, 1-50 is so smooth and works well... then you hit vet levels and you are maxed out on all your skills so you dont "change". You are the same vet 1 to 14 just takes forever and nothing is new...
You hit the nail right there. Add to that gating content with ranks and we are done.
exactly so your problem is not with vet ranks its with a lack of content.
a) to give you multiple ways to get exp be it through questing in NEW zones doing dungeons delves or pvp what you want is options and not be forced to do silver and gold or grind.
b) content that is fun and scales better so less requirment to be max level
Its Character progression content... Once your skills are level 50 your "main level" (VRwhatever) does not really matter. Your skills are what make me want to play... I cant wait to get level 50 because I get another "spell" when all my skill lines are maxed you get CP, but that does not make any real differences to my game play.
When they thought about spellcrafting that would change my char and make me want to advance.
If they added more skill levels with new spells or abilities it would make me want to advance. The difference between VR1 -14 is NOTHING other then the massive amount of experience it takes to earn the level, you dont really earn anything other then the ability to SLIGHTLY update your gear and 1 attribute point...
VR14 gear is nothing to work for either... My crafting is maxed out so what are they going to do when they add VR16 gear just lower the ability to make that gear?
so removing them progresses your character how?
I dont think they should remove them... I'm just stating why people hate VR levels... Its not that they take so much exp and time its because there is no reward for time.
if that were true ppl wouldnt be bothered either way about getting to the max level.
I geniunely think its A because of the time involved and B because of the narrow chocices of how to get there (grind for days or do silver gold)
solve these two and people wont care
A majority of the people who I know who quit (I admit its only 5 people) all left after getting VR1-4, all of them said "what is the point" The main story is done, your skills are maxed leveling VR1-14 is boring no matter how you do it because the char you play is the same. IF CPs had skills and abilities attached to them this would solve this problem. In EQ they added *** that really changed how you could play...CPs in ESO are not an advancement system that really matters...
really all there skills were maxed i call bs as there are not enough skill points in the game at v14 even to max every line. also how is removing vet ranks going to advance the story more than adding content as per my suggestion?
it sounds like you now want cps as well as vet ranks removed so basically you want no progression of any kind. Im more inclined to agree with the removal of cp's though as it makes balancing more difficult and adds another layer of near indefinite progression gating newer players from things.
I max out my skills by level 46 these days (the ones I use)... why would you max every line? Skill lines, 1 armor line and two weapon lines maxed to 50 by 46 every time.
I'm proposing that they actually ADD to the skill lines make them level 100 add new abilities and spells, not just passive stuff like CP does... then you can stay level 50 and work on skill lines and CPs. The skill lines should also be much harder to get not giving them away like they do now.
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Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭so removing them progresses your character how?
It allows all characters who reach level 50 to participate in trials, craglorn, and veteran dungeons, it opens up the game.
You have a horizontal progression system in CP's, you don't need a vertical one
Increasing the VR means if you aren't capped, good luck finding a group, especially as a tank. You don't find groups as a VR3 tank for veteran dungeons.
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You know what really sucks for some (ok- at least for me) is that there is no content for me to do. All 8 of my guys are v14 and all quests are done. (Thanks for giving more xp for quests by the way - do I get that xp credit?) It will be easier to get to v16 huh? how? Doing imperial city? I have mainly one guy (at most three) that I use for PvP, so pvp content isn't the answer for every player. (It's also so awesome to work hard to get something accomplished and then be told everyone else will have an easier time doing it).
ZoS has really disappointed me this week. About as much as the first time the announced the horrible CP they were going to start everyone with. Been waiting for new content since last November when we got CoA. Still waiting just to find out how long we wait for actual content of Imp city to roll out. Then the $30 rip off mount. Some of the mechanics changes they are going to make (yeah, ZoS - pro tip, when you take advice from all the guilds that have zergs in PvP, guess what the advice benefits - the ZERGS!). And raising the VR cap when they are supposed to be eliminating it.Edited by xaraan on July 3, 2015 12:58AM-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
"new gear and items" the crown shop is giving you new gear and items. If they are "epic" weapons like EQ with hard quests that really feel unique and challenging I would say yeah that would keep in interested.
"new dungeons, trials, new lands" will all seem the same if you are the same and not progressing or feeling like you are getting more powerful. If you are the same level you will see the new dungeons, trials and new lands in a week and be board again. If you had to complete the areas to earn something then you may keep interested longer.
The Crown store is not giving the types of items I'm talking about and you and I both know that. I'm talking about adding new, unique sets and items like the master weapons or monster helms. Something that is gameplay altering and something to work towards. It is a form progression, regardless of how you personally define progression.
Edited by LtCrunch on July 3, 2015 1:00AMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/160 -
djyrb✭✭✭I knew something was up when they released the VR10 food and drink with 1.6, but I assumed that meant that Vet Rank removal was further off than expected.
I surely didn't see an increase coming, especially when I upgraded all my gear to legendary on my new VR14 Templar a couple weeks ago
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tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭so removing them progresses your character how?
It allows all characters who reach level 50 to participate in trials, craglorn, and veteran dungeons, it opens up the game.
You have a horizontal progression system in CP's, you don't need a vertical one
Increasing the VR means if you aren't capped, good luck finding a group, especially as a tank. You don't find groups as a VR3 tank for veteran dungeons.
Exactly, all they are doing is increasing the gap and not "closing the gap" mind you ZOS.
Edited by tordr86b16_ESO on July 3, 2015 1:02AM2 -
rubherducky✭✭✭Never commented on these forums before. I read them every day, though, and I just gotta say- please please please don't add v16. Like many people have commented before me, we've worked very hard on our gear. I grinded and farmed for so long to buy my v14 ravager set, my healer set, and my footmans. I've also upgraded most of them to gold. The v16 increase would tarnish my motivation to play this game. I don't want to have to grind my three v14's two levels more. There's no content for me to do. I know that it's a business. Just thought I'd leave my thoughts and hope my pleas will be heard! :PFlawless Conqueror on every class- Theorycrafter- General lover of the game.2 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Just watch the Twitch video. Eric Wrobel went into quite a bit of detail as to why veteran ranks can't be removed just yet. They are ingrained into ESO in such a way that they cannot be removed until an entirely new system is created to replace it.
That's what the Champion system was supposed to be. The phase after the Champion system implementation was to remove veteran ranks. That's from the roadmap that ZOS themselves provided, and they never gave us any reason to think there would be anything else in between those two phases regarding veteran ranks/systems. Did the veteran ranks suddenly get more complex since then? Did they change their minds? We need much more clarity on why this flip-flop occured.
They need vet ranks... they need to make money on content. If you 2 or 4 levels VR16 and the content matches the new levels people will buy it... If there are no new levels there is no need to buy the new content if you can keep getting CP at the max level of 50.
New gear, unique items, new dungeons, trials, new lands, etc. Those things are enough to justify purchasing new content. Not everybody plays this game, in fact I'd wager most don't play this game solely for progression purposes and viewing it as such would be extremely short-sighted and narrow-minded.
"new gear and items" the crown shop is giving you new gear and items. If they are "epic" weapons like EQ with hard quests that really feel unique and challenging I would say yeah that would keep in interested.
"new dungeons, trials, new lands" will all seem the same if you are the same and not progressing or feeling like you are getting more powerful. If you are the same level you will see the new dungeons, trials and new lands in a week and be board again. If you had to complete the areas to earn something then you may keep interested longer.
The Crown store is not giving the types of items I'm talking about and you and I both know that. I'm talking about adding new, unique sets and items like the master weapons or monster helms. Something that is gameplay altering and something to work towards. It is a form progression, regardless of how you personally define progression.
Game altering items you say? Master weapons and monster helms are not game altering, in many cases they are not even worth having for the micro difference they make to chars. Adding bigger numbers is a form of progression for sure, but one that makes most games go down the road of ruin. EQ was the best game for 4 or 5 years then they just started adding bigger and bigger numbers to things WOW the same thing.
ESO with spellcrafting had the ability to create a true new progression system that was not adding levels or bigger numbers on items.
The store and its unique items might as well be progression because that is all weapon and item progression is look at me I have the new cool thing of the moment. Progression based off true skill is one that I wanted to see, but it has not happened so I still am waiting for a truly unique MMO.
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DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »And before anyone asks, no, you aren't going to get a refund on the gold mats that you spent to upgrade your VR14 gear.
This is why they shouldn't add VR levels 2 at a time. If they are going to add 2 levels for each zone added (lower craglorn, upper craglorn, imperial city), it will be pretty lame if they have 3 separate major zone releases each year. Perhaps this is mostly due to re-calibration of levels/xp, but I am already reluctant enough to use my gold mats.
Then again, I haven't played Witcher 3 in 2 weeks due to being overwhelmed with all the crafting materials.0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭so removing them progresses your character how?
It allows all characters who reach level 50 to participate in trials, craglorn, and veteran dungeons, it opens up the game.
You have a horizontal progression system in CP's, you don't need a vertical one
Increasing the VR means if you aren't capped, good luck finding a group, especially as a tank. You don't find groups as a VR3 tank for veteran dungeons.
wrong cp's are not horizontal lol 25% boost to all stats is way more than vr's give. as for good look finding a group if your not capped if they reduce the level to 50 and scale the dungeons to 50 1)you wont get a group till your 50.will they be scaled to zero cp's cause if so most ppl will anhilate them thus reducing endgame content further. If they are scaled higher and you have any less than what they are scaled at say 100 and guess what you still wont get an inv to top groups.
In short vet ranks to dont gate content nearly as much as cp's could and atm a v3 is capable of doing vet dsa if played well.Edited by lathbury on July 3, 2015 1:10AM1 -
Calluna✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.
I hope you guys hurry up because even patient supporters of the game are getting sick of no content and flip flops on level, VR rank and CP system. Seriously I have never said anything negative about this game in the forum even considering all the crap that goes on in PVP but now... I am at the end of my rope.5 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »All the content they have promised should have been at RELEASE, at LEVEL 50! VR has been a year long crutch because ESO lacked content - and still is.
this I agree with it's like i been saying for the last 2 hours vet rank removal solves nothing more content is what's required.
removing vet ranks takes resources away from that.Edited by lathbury on July 3, 2015 1:17AM0
