Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

Jonnymorrow

No

One more nail in the coffin of ZoS do this. I'm already bored of the current PvE content. Nerfed EXP rate and now Nerfed AoE's. Yes I know they are increasing the EXP per mob in this patch but its too little too late.

PvP is average at best, there is better to be had in older titles. AoE cap will make it dire.

PvE is basically a Solo quest grind. Aoe Cap will also make it dire.

Kaisino

No

RivenVII wrote: »

Kaisino wrote: »

Voted no to highlight that balance should never be voted or chosen by community. Thats the best way to make horrendous game.

Oh wow, you're so cool. Did you bother to even see what this was about? It isn't about balance, it is about gutting the greatest thing about this PvP system.

They can nerf and change skills all they want, but when a blanket change to AoE gets made over a few OP AoE skills and then makes every skill suck equally so that stacking in massive groups the most efficient way to play, yeah, I think they should listen to the community.

I can play without a UI that shows everything. I can't play if the only way for me to PvP is to stack in a group of 100 and just stand in AoE laughing because it only hits 6 people.

Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)

DemonNinja

No

I cant say no enough times. This is what made GW2 WvW terrible. Please do not put and AoE cap in place. Please.

Sidney

Yes

I voted yes but only because if I can hit 1000 targets if they're all standing right there, that's not right. The cap should be much higher though.

Balance isn't opposite ends of the spectrum. There's a balance in between. I hope they find that balance without killing the way spells work.

phpreesepreub18_ESO

No

AoE's should hit all targets. If anything reduce the damage it does for more targets hit.

RivenEsq

No

Sidney wrote: »

I voted yes but only because if I can hit 1000 targets if they're all standing right there, that's not right. The cap should be much higher though.

Balance isn't opposite ends of the spectrum. There's a balance in between. I hope they find that balance without killing the way spells work.

I don't think anyone here is saying "go nuts" and let all AoEs do max damage to everyone and never nerf them, but I do think that 6 player caps are a horrid decision. Abilities can be balanced and tweaked in so many ways that makes them powerful if used properly, but not so easy that you can put the skill anywhere and win.

You could accomplish this easily. AoEs do more damage in the middle and less on the outside. DONE. You suddenly reward for perfectly placed AoE while punishing their DPS more and more for how much they missed the proper spot by. You can also reduce the radius on skills, make them shorter, increase the duration and reduce the damage per second so it takes longer to do full damage. Take away utility such as some of the CC that is offered (either duration or making the CC based on position in the AoE) by the ability if you want to keep damage. The possibilities are endless.

monkeyfrog653b14_ESO

No

CrashBlack

No

I was super excited about this game not having AOE cap, it just generally makes for FUN gameplay! Limiting it is an extremely big step in the wrong direction.

This is the first thing about this game that makes me seriously worried about if the PvP will be enjoyable or not. It just removes too many avenues of tactics and smart playing and promotes abusing game mechanics.

daniel.skrbab16_ESO

No

I hope the message is clear... cap at 6 is just a bad idea.

Exittium

No

no no no no I will be gone if that happens

prana33b14_ESO

No

Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be 6against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)

You realize that Gw2 made this decision based on $$ saved because their servers had to do more calculations and they went cheapo style right? Like, they started in betas with no aoe cap and changed it because the crappy servers they used couldnt handle it all. They intended it to be no cap also. If teso has a reason to make it this way based on making better game play I'm all ears.

Jonnymorrow

No

Kaisino wrote: »

RivenVII wrote: »

Kaisino wrote: »

Voted no to highlight that balance should never be voted or chosen by community. Thats the best way to make horrendous game.

Oh wow, you're so cool. Did you bother to even see what this was about? It isn't about balance, it is about gutting the greatest thing about this PvP system.

They can nerf and change skills all they want, but when a blanket change to AoE gets made over a few OP AoE skills and then makes every skill suck equally so that stacking in massive groups the most efficient way to play, yeah, I think they should listen to the community.

I can play without a UI that shows everything. I can't play if the only way for me to PvP is to stack in a group of 100 and just stand in AoE laughing because it only hits 6 people.

Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)

The devs are proving they know *** all. This is their first mmo and it shows. Trust them if you like but they haven't shown me anything to make me trust in them.

The game is already on life support due to Bugs, Duping, maintenance at least every 48 hours, lack of group content in an mmorpg, average PvP, recycled PvE content, bots everywhere! Lag after no server downtime!! VR 10 armors and weapons look just like lv46 ones! Etc I could go on but I hope you get the point.

The fecking EU server is still in the US for Christ sake!

And I'm supposed to trust that the devs know what they are doing lol. If they did they wouldn't even consider this shotgun approach with the Small Small amount of aoes that need tweaking.

I partly agree that community's can ruin games, your right but in this case the devs are making a meal of this game by themselves! So perhaps they should listen.

valkaneer2b14_ESO

No

Kaisino wrote: »

RivenVII wrote: »

Kaisino wrote: »

Voted no to highlight that balance should never be voted or chosen by community. Thats the best way to make horrendous game.

Oh wow, you're so cool. Did you bother to even see what this was about? It isn't about balance, it is about gutting the greatest thing about this PvP system.

They can nerf and change skills all they want, but when a blanket change to AoE gets made over a few OP AoE skills and then makes every skill suck equally so that stacking in massive groups the most efficient way to play, yeah, I think they should listen to the community.

I can play without a UI that shows everything. I can't play if the only way for me to PvP is to stack in a group of 100 and just stand in AoE laughing because it only hits 6 people.

Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)

LOL ok,.... Just to look at Angry Joe's Vid which pretty much nails it, in a very not so nice way, but he was telling the truth. All problems that we screamed about in beta and most of them ignored.

Just like ZOS refusal to lift the NDA for so long that they lost thousands of sales due to rumors that they never took the time to discredit. This is ZOSs' first MMO and I have been playing MMO's for more than 15 years. I think I know more about some of it than some of the Dev's do that I am sure are in there early 20's.

There are a lot of good idea's here, and ones that would work well for PvP and not Nerf PvE. Like the DaoC style AoE system that ZOS would be really smart to pick up.

Kaisino

No

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be 6against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)

You realize that Gw2 made this decision based on $$ saved because their servers had to do more calculations and they went cheapo style right? If they have a reason to make it this way based on making better game play I'm all ears.

For me better gameplay is not getting hit by 10000 aoes at the same time, and I would like to see mostly single target skills in game. So I don't really mind if they add hit cap. Thats one reason, but I see that most people think other way.

Kaisino

No

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

Kaisino wrote: »

RivenVII wrote: »

Kaisino wrote: »

Voted no to highlight that balance should never be voted or chosen by community. Thats the best way to make horrendous game.

Oh wow, you're so cool. Did you bother to even see what this was about? It isn't about balance, it is about gutting the greatest thing about this PvP system.

They can nerf and change skills all they want, but when a blanket change to AoE gets made over a few OP AoE skills and then makes every skill suck equally so that stacking in massive groups the most efficient way to play, yeah, I think they should listen to the community.

I can play without a UI that shows everything. I can't play if the only way for me to PvP is to stack in a group of 100 and just stand in AoE laughing because it only hits 6 people.

Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)

LOL ok,.... Just to look at Angry Joe's Vid which pretty much nails it, in a very not so nice way, but he was telling the truth. All problems that we screamed about in beta and most of them ignored.

Just like ZOS refusal to lift the NDA for so long that they lost thousands of sales due to rumors that they never took the time to discredit. This is ZOSs' first MMO and I have been playing MMO's for more than 15 years. I think I know more about some of it than some of the Dev's do that I am sure are in there early 20's.

There are a lot of good idea's here, and ones that would work well for PvP and not Nerf PvE. Like the DaoC style AoE system that ZOS would be really smart to pick up.

No I won't watch Angry Joe.

Kaisino

No

Jonnymorrow wrote: »

Kaisino wrote: »

RivenVII wrote: »

Kaisino wrote: »

Voted no to highlight that balance should never be voted or chosen by community. Thats the best way to make horrendous game.

Oh wow, you're so cool. Did you bother to even see what this was about? It isn't about balance, it is about gutting the greatest thing about this PvP system.

They can nerf and change skills all they want, but when a blanket change to AoE gets made over a few OP AoE skills and then makes every skill suck equally so that stacking in massive groups the most efficient way to play, yeah, I think they should listen to the community.

I can play without a UI that shows everything. I can't play if the only way for me to PvP is to stack in a group of 100 and just stand in AoE laughing because it only hits 6 people.

Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)

The devs are proving they know *** all. This is their first mmo and it shows. Trust them if you like but they haven't shown me anything to make me trust in them.

The game is already on life support due to Bugs, Duping, maintenance at least every 48 hours, lack of group content in an mmorpg, average PvP, recycled PvE content, bots everywhere! Lag after no server downtime!! VR 10 armors and weapons look just like lv46 ones! Etc I could go on but I hope you get the point.

The fecking EU server is still in the US for Christ sake!

And I'm supposed to trust that the devs know what they are doing lol. If they did they wouldn't even consider this shotgun approach with the Small Small amount of aoes that need tweaking.

I partly agree that community's can ruin games, your right but in this case the devs are making a meal of this game by themselves! So perhaps they should listen.

Yup I already canceled my sub because of quest bugs, but if community gets to decide balance, game is doomed.

RivenEsq

No

Kaisino wrote: »

Yup I already canceled my sub because of quest bugs, but if community gets to decide balance, game is doomed.

The community isn't deciding balance here. We're screaming at the top of our lungs for there to be balance. This isn't balancing, this is amputating a leg when all you did was get a scrape on your knee.

If you don't get the analogy, there are a couple AoE abilities that are too strong and instead of BALANCING those, they are ruining every single one. I can handle nerfs just fine. What I can't handle is a complete change of the way the game mechanics work, which was a HUGE selling point for most players here.

prana33b14_ESO

No

Dude already unsubbed because of pve bugs lol. Thx guy. We're putting up with the pve b.s. because we liked the pvp. Troll moar.

Azmodyus

No

Positioning and strategy were stated as being incredibly important to this game's combat systems. Capping the number of targets taking damage from area effects weakens the challenge, significantly.

Kaisino

No

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Dude already unsubbed because of pve bugs lol. Thx guy. We're putting up with the pve b.s. because we liked the pvp. Troll moar.

Or we like different pvp, who knows. Probably you are always right tho.

Faustes

Yes

I voted yes. Mindless AoE zerg is boring in PvP and PvE

Riny01

No

AoE's should damage all within the radius.

RivenEsq

No

Faustes wrote: »

I voted yes. Mindless AoE zerg is boring in PvP and PvE

Mindless zerg becomes even more of a thing with AoE caps in place. No player here is saying things shouldn't be balanced in other ways, most of which involve making AoE uses more skillful, not just horribly ineffective against multiple targets in an area, which is the whole point of the spell/ability type.

gnostici

Yes

RivenVII wrote: »

And the clear intent of these changes is to completely deface the PvP system in this game, and I will not stand idly by and let this game be ruined by a god awful balancing team.

I marked your post insightful earlier, but didn't get a chance to reply for a few. Sorry about that.

It is beyond doubtful that they want to deface PvP, just looking at it from the perspective of a product. But when it comes down to it, where they find problems they must produce solutions. If the community doesn't like a solution, then it may help for us to offer suggestions about other ways.

Unfortunately, we're at an impasse on that. The moment the problems are spelled out, people will take advantage of them -- effectively worsening them. I cite gold farmers and people cheesing what would otherwise be solo dungeons to farm, but I can all but guarantee that there's more to it than that.

Post-release, it's a LOT harder to make fundamental changes than during testing. But nerfs will come -- they always do in MMOs. Always. Changes will happen, including difficult ones. So I guess the real test for a MMO is whether people can bear it and still have fun. I don't think there has been one without that trouble yet.

I bet there will be some good alternatives proposed by the community once we know specifically which AoEs are affected by the change. From what I've read, some have been that way all along and nobody even noticed until now. If it's such a problem, it should be noticeable, right?

RivenEsq

No

gnostici wrote: »

From what I've read, some have been that way all along and nobody even noticed until now. If it's such a problem, it should be noticeable, right?

I really think that they aren't capped and that is why it isn't noticeable. I think most of the issues aren't the damage with the abilities, but the bonuses those abilities provide to the caster. Cap the bonuses to the caster such as healing, bonus weapon damage, armor, shields, etc., but leave the damage the AoE does. This way, the skill can perform it's intended function without making people immortal or disproportionately strong because they run into 50 people.

Dudis

No

RivenVII wrote: »

I really think that they aren't capped and that is why it isn't noticeable. I think most of the issues aren't the damage with the abilities, but the bonuses those abilities provide to the caster. Cap the bonuses to the caster such as healing, bonus weapon damage, armor, shields, etc., but leave the damage the AoE does. This way, the skill can perform it's intended function without making people immortal or disproportionately strong because they run into 50 people.

This.

Also this:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/88560/stacking-cost-reduction-is-the-problem-not-aoe-damage

Mykah

Yes

Dorgon wrote: »

If I place a circle of fire on the ground anyone standing in it should burn, be it one guy or 30. I mean the whole point of an aoe is to 'not' stand in it yes?

Does that include you and your team mates? Since youre using real life arguments and all...

So much QQ from DK and Sorcs who havent PvPed outside of post 2010 wow and GW2 fotm builds.

AE spam is not skill. 100 people smashing 12 guys spamming AE is not unbalanced.

Altros

No

I haven't done any PvP'ing yet as I've been waiting for some friends to start playing first. Can someone give me a comprehensive list of skills that are likely the cause of this nerf? I know for sure Devouring Swarm and Shooting Star need a bonus-hit cap, otherwise you'll have immortals and meteor showers running around during mass PvP, but what are the others?

eckohpz

No

Mykah wrote: »

Dorgon wrote: »

If I place a circle of fire on the ground anyone standing in it should burn, be it one guy or 30. I mean the whole point of an aoe is to 'not' stand in it yes?

Does that include you and your team mates? Since youre using real life arguments and all...

So much QQ from DK and Sorcs who havent PvPed outside of post 2010 wow and GW2 fotm builds.

AE spam is not skill. 100 people smashing 12 guys spamming AE is not unbalanced.

If you think that the problem with AOE abilities lies in the zergs smashing smaller groups then you really need to think about the game a little more...

Kraun

No

This'd be the kingly time to listen to the playerbase. No AOE caps. Only thing that needs fixing is ulti-reduction stacking.