Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

Mordenkaiser

No

I voted No,

However I think AOE effect should reduce based on number of targets, otherwise you have a small cluster of folks on TS destroying players at choke points, such as during keep sieges by cordinating AOe to the point where players just do not have a oppertunity to respond...

Option #1 "Don't clump up" and be killed as you trickle in
Option #2 "Charge together" and get obliterated by organized AOE
Is there a 3rd option I'm overlooking here?

If you reduce the effect then it promotes people to move together, safety in numbers. Yes it will hurt small groups, but I don't think its unfair to expect a small group of say 5-8 people to be felled by a group of 30+. Its not really a matter of tactics because the larger group is now having their time eaten up by a small handful of players whom can simply say "AOE now!" the end result is that you have less people committing to the charge.

Also to be fair I would say exempt siege weapons from the reduction of effect, I think outright nullifying the AOE on some folks to be a step too far however.

valkaneer2b14_ESO

No

Mordenkaiser wrote: »

I voted No,

However I think AOE effect should reduce based on number of targets, otherwise you have a small cluster of folks on TS destroying players at choke points, such as during keep sieges by cordinating AOe to the point where players just do not have a oppertunity to respond...

Option #1 "Don't clump up" and be killed as you trickle in
Option #2 "Charge together" and get obliterated by organized AOE
Is there a 3rd option I'm overlooking here?

If you reduce the effect then it promotes people to move together, safety in numbers. Yes it will hurt small groups, but I don't think its unfair to expect a small group of say 5-8 people to be felled by a group of 30+. Its not really a matter of tactics because the larger group is now having their time eaten up by a small handful of players whom can simply say "AOE now!" the end result is that you have less people committing to the charge.

Also to be fair I would say exempt siege weapons from the reduction of effect, I think outright nullifying the AOE on some folks to be a step too far however.

There are many times in history where one good warrior killed 30 people by himself. So why not have 8 people able to kill 30?

apav

No

No.

You're kidding right? This is one of the major reasons why I left GW2 and was excited for the PvP in this game. Which uninformed lackey thought that this was a good idea? Unless you want to ruin PvP and make it a giant zergfest that pretty much destroyed GW2's WvW, then don't do it. It's a terrible idea, it will break immersion, and it just downright doesn't make any sense. If this happens, people will just stack on each other and there will be absolutely no chance for small groups to take down larger groups, even uncoordinated ones. If you think this will fix AoE, you must have the wrong meaning of the word, because this will only neuter it.

Zenimax, please don't cater to every complaint you hear on the forums. There are plenty of justified ones, but this isn't one of them. Or at least this "fix" is a terrible idea.

Mordenkaiser

No

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

There are many times in history where one good warrior killed 30 people by himself. So why not have 8 people able to kill 30?

My apologies, however I would challenge that assertion with some questions as to the circumstances where that one individual did some in 2-3 gestures which did not involve some sort of subterfuge (ala Battle of Okehazama). The system itself has limited complexity, I think guerrilla tactics (picking off stragglers, cutting off re spawns) will allow a smaller team to achieve victory, in which case superior tactics were employed. The issue is that a ability should probably not allow a small number to beat a much larger number simply by the virtue of having it such as Batswarm.

I think at this point AOE's are currently needing some adjustment, as I indicated in my previous posting the tactics to use versus AOE's are currently ineffective versus an entrentched and organized force. So rather then threatening and beating our chests about it we should try and instead work out an actual solution to the problem, you seem like someone with a scholarly interest in the discussion, so forgive me for calling you out on this, I am curious to hear your thoughts on the state of affairs.

Valei

No

Gaudrath wrote: »

As a former GW2 PvPer, I'm strongly opposed to AoE caps and instead believe that AoE skills should be reworked so that they are relatively rare or expensive to use. I feel that true PvP requires as few AoE skills as possible, and that single-target skills should be the staple of any build.

Single target skills promote coordination and tactics. AoE skills promote mindless zerging because all you need to do is run in a tight ball and listen to your synchronized swim master yelling orders over TS. It's boring. It's why I left GW2.

You cant ST 50 down mate. It's that simple. For RvR to be competative and fun it needs a AoE component. Be that PBAoE or RAOE. There are a magnitude of ways to tweak this component, aswell as adding interesting counters from a ST and AoE perspective.

Removeing AoE altogether is not an option for a RvR scene.

valkaneer2b14_ESO

No

Mordenkaiser wrote: »

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

There are many times in history where one good warrior killed 30 people by himself. So why not have 8 people able to kill 30?

My apologies, however I would challenge that assertion with some questions as to the circumstances where that one individual did some in 2-3 gestures which did not involve some sort of subterfuge (ala Battle of Okehazama). The system itself has limited complexity, I think guerrilla tactics (picking off stragglers, cutting off re spawns) will allow a smaller team to achieve victory, in which case superior tactics were employed. The issue is that a ability should probably not allow a small number to beat a much larger number simply by the virtue of having it such as Batswarm.

I think at this point AOE's are currently needing some adjustment, as I indicated in my previous posting the tactics to use versus AOE's are currently ineffective versus an entrentched and organized force. So rather then threatening and beating our chests about it we should try and instead work out an actual solution to the problem, you seem like someone with a scholarly interest in the discussion, so forgive me for calling you out on this, I am curious to hear your thoughts on the state of affairs.

Then do it like DaoC. 100% damage at center and tapper it off the farther out you go.

Mordenkaiser

No

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

Then do it like DaoC. 100% damage at center and tapper it off the farther out you go.

I very much agree, seems a amicable solution to the problem.

RhapsinBlue

No

Ok, my main is a vamp. If it will keep you people from limiting things like healing, then I say just get rid of my bat swarm ultimate and turn it into a skill called Team Edward that simply makes me glitter and does no damage.

I literally would rather lose the ultimate all-together than have this game turn into the crap RvR that I dealt with for the past few years in GW2. I play your game because it is the first true successor to DAOC. Please don't kill that for me over a couple of skills that are easily over powered, and oh so simply changed (or deleted).

ChairGraveyard

No

Mordenkaiser wrote: »

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

Then do it like DaoC. 100% damage at center and tapper it off the farther out you go.

I very much agree, seems a amicable solution to the problem.

Anything that still disallows stacking exploits in PvP is alright by my book, and this suggestion would still maintain that.

cesar.narrob14_ESO

No

I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.

Digerati

No

http://www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857
I want to change my vote :-P

Xsorus

No

Digerati wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857
I want to change my vote :-P

that video is why AoE should not be capped

to teach herp a derps from Gw2 how to properly deal with PBAE and AoE.

GW2 like WoW, has honestly done so much to dumb down and make MMO's a worse place.

sinz_xb16_ESO

No

There definitely shouldn't be an AoE cap. Would be the worst decision they've made so far and will really hurt PvP. GW2 PvP was so boring because of this, I hope ESO won't turn into the same.

typ3kal

No

If AOE cap is instituted I'm unsubscribing and going back to DAoC until Camelot Unchained comes out. Good grief.

LoGiTiC

No

I agree, if they make this change I am out. It will destroy small bands of people facing a larger group of people. There will be no skill required anymore. I am already having to deal with action delay on abilities during a battles I am in, they should be working on making the game more responsive rather the bringing out the nerf bat.

Garion

No

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

It's needed and will go live... Doesn't matter how much you complain (For some reasson most think it's linked to PvP only, which is not the case). Makes AOE for all classes a must have which, in turn, makes all classes clones in combat and restrict the ways to play to a bunch of FOTM builds. I understand that some ppl grown used to the easy tactic of going around spamming 1 or 2 AOE powers and see the numbers roll in... On a game that tries to encourage dynamic combat this way to play has to go.

But I think this is the point. A lot of us voting 'no' aren't voting no to some kind of nerf, but we are voting no to a cap specifically. I am personally all for game balancing and a number of individuals in this thread and elsewhere have made excellent suggestions on how to bring this balance to the game (for example, decreasing the damage the further from the center one is from the AoE circle, the less powerful that effect will be).

I would encourage people not to simply vote 'yes' simply because they believe there is an issue with AoE. There is a problem and it does need balancing, the point we are trying to make is capping is not the way to resolve that problem! There are so many other better options.

JinRem

No

NO.
I could compromise with a damage drop when you hit more than 6 targets maybe..

ChairGraveyard

No

RhapsinBlue wrote: »

Ok, my main is a vamp. If it will keep you people from limiting things like healing, then I say just get rid of my bat swarm ultimate and turn it into a skill called Team Edward that simply makes me glitter and does no damage.

I literally would rather lose the ultimate all-together than have this game turn into the crap RvR that I dealt with for the past few years in GW2. I play your game because it is the first true successor to DAOC. Please don't kill that for me over a couple of skills that are easily over powered, and oh so simply changed (or deleted).

I feel the same about Negate Magic. If it hits 6 targets, which can all break out in PvP, it is effectively useless.

Also pretty useless if it can't hit more than half a single PvE pull either.

nightfox676eb17_ESO

No

It would be total garbage. Find some other way to balance it.

Zintair

No

This change cannot take place. Period. Affect core mechanics and leave the abilities alone.

Please do not make this change GW2 is the only example you need. You are completely empowering the ball zerg tactic which is awful for the game. You will lose a lot of subs over this.

chrisub17_ESO104

Caps in this game will not have the same effect they did in GW2. Even with caps aoe will scale well, while in GW2 it did not (mainly because almost all aoe was ground based, and did not stack).

I understand the knee jerk reaction to aoe caps because of the experiences people had in GW2, but it's really comparing apples and oranges.

OmegaCorruption

No

Ill be leaving if this cap on AOEs stays. I cant begin to think how bad this will be for a healers in PvP.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

No

There is a reason why targeting cap is a mess in other games. People just tend to exploit it in both PvE/PvP by stacking pets or players in big zergs.

Big exemple that did it wrong is Champions Online, pets used to be weak and Cryptic studios later added a 75% AoE resistance to all pets (wich got nerfed later). Players would just stack up pets on Cosmic bosses and those would soak up all te dmg done by their AoEs. Wich was stupid...

If Zenimax put a AoE cap on every single AoE in game, you can say goodbye to structured WvW and say hello to GW2 clone Zerg fest where the guys with the bigest party stacked together becomes an immovable force of nature and where AoEs are basicaly worthless.

So devs, think very well before making you decision, because if you put a cap on every AoE in this game, you might also say goodbye to your WvW.

RivenEsq

No

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

Caps in this game will not have the same effect they did in GW2. Even with caps aoe will scale well, while in GW2 it did not (mainly because almost all aoe was ground based, and did not stack).

I understand the knee jerk reaction to aoe caps because of the experiences people had in GW2, but it's really comparing apples and oranges.

But it really isn't. No matter how you hash it and how AoE scales, you can only hit 6 out of 50-100 people standing in a spot. And for every AoE your group of 30 layers, that hits a different 6 players. Numbers and stacking will reign supreme. It will be exactly the same as GW2 sans a downed state.

ravendt_ESO

No

I almost never post on forums, especially game forums. It's usually full of whiners and trolls, and I'd rather not waste my time.

As someone who almost never posts on forums, I am not the person who says, "I hate this change, I hate that change, I am going to unsubscribe!" People whine and *** because that's all they seem to know. They were born into it, molded by it.

In this case, I am making an exception. I am posting on the forums to tell you that if you implement this change to AOE, I will not subscribe. I have already left GW2 because of this, and I have left SWTOR because of similar changes.

If you cap AOE to a specific number of targets, it will ruin the game, and I will refuse to play it. You may not care whether or not I still continue to play, but look at the votes on this post and then extrapolate that percentage to your entire player base. It's a pretty grim picture of the future. I'd recommend that you reconsider.

Balancing abilities in a game is not that difficult, but it's not as easy as saying, "We're going to cap AOE at 6 targets." That's ludicrous.

Chomppa

No

This is a horrid change and I don't like it , reminds me of GW2 .

wadeborn_ESO

No

Will cancel sub if aoe gets capped. Pls no pls

Punche

Yes

So, I was voting from my phone, and hit yes by accident. Meant to vote NO.

Digerati

No

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857
I want to change my vote :-P

that video is why AoE should not be capped

to teach herp a derps from Gw2 how to properly deal with PBAE and AoE.

GW2 like WoW, has honestly done so much to dumb down and make MMO's a worse place.

I was joking hence the :-P

Cybael

No

Nightblade. If you stand in stupid it shouldn't matter, you should die. if you want to weaken the hit fine but do not remove the effect from hitting everyone in the AOE. it does NOT make sense.