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Do you think there should be an AoE cap?
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lovESOng✭✭✭NoI'm so sick of people exploiting a skill in pvp causing a nerf which affects pve too.1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Id be worried if my class had any decent aoe to speak of... as it is ...meh, whatever.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
Spriggen✭✭✭NoWhat about the twelve man dungeons they are releasing in patch 1.1? So only six people are going to be healed during Boss fights. And don't give me that bull carp that aoe cap won't be capped in PvE locations like these.0 -
Adhal✭✭✭Novalkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »Voted no to highlight that balance should never be voted or chosen by community. Thats the best way to make horrendous game.
Oh wow, you're so cool. Did you bother to even see what this was about? It isn't about balance, it is about gutting the greatest thing about this PvP system.
They can nerf and change skills all they want, but when a blanket change to AoE gets made over a few OP AoE skills and then makes every skill suck equally so that stacking in massive groups the most efficient way to play, yeah, I think they should listen to the community.
I can play without a UI that shows everything. I can't play if the only way for me to PvP is to stack in a group of 100 and just stand in AoE laughing because it only hits 6 people.
Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)
LOL ok,.... Just to look at Angry Joe's Vid which pretty much nails it, in a very not so nice way, but he was telling the truth. All problems that we screamed about in beta and most of them ignored.
Just like ZOS refusal to lift the NDA for so long that they lost thousands of sales due to rumors that they never took the time to discredit. This is ZOSs' first MMO and I have been playing MMO's for more than 15 years. I think I know more about some of it than some of the Dev's do that I am sure are in there early 20's.
There are a lot of good idea's here, and ones that would work well for PvP and not Nerf PvE. Like the DaoC style AoE system that ZOS would be really smart to pick up.
I find it highly ironic you talk about this being ZOS's first MMO and them not knowing more than you, then praise DAoC's system when most of the developers are from DAoC (and a majority of the PvP team). But hey... You know better.
That said I do think the cap is a bad idea, I would rather see them target the skills that lead to the extremely OP dk/sorc vampire emperors. Like maybe a cap to how much you can lower ultimate cost by.
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daemonbarberSoul ShrivenNoSounds like a proven way to destroy PvP. Not at all encouraged by this.
I was really hoping ESO wouldn't fall into the trap of making changes without petitioning the players. At least we know now that they don't seem to care about what we think.1 -
chrisub17_ESO104✭✭✭chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »Caps in this game will not have the same effect they did in GW2. Even with caps aoe will scale well, while in GW2 it did not (mainly because almost all aoe was ground based, and did not stack).
I understand the knee jerk reaction to aoe caps because of the experiences people had in GW2, but it's really comparing apples and oranges.
But it really isn't. No matter how you hash it and how AoE scales, you can only hit 6 out of 50-100 people standing in a spot. And for every AoE your group of 30 layers, that hits a different 6 players. Numbers and stacking will reign supreme. It will be exactly the same as GW2 sans a downed state.
No no no this is where people are getting it all wrong.
Aoe caps already exist on some things, so we know the mechanics of it. Aoe caps do not limit you to only hitting X number of targets in a 'spot'. If you stop and think about that, it doesnt' even make sense. What defines the spot? In GW2 it was the ground based aoe area. And since one would overwrite the other, and they never stacked, hence the limit. You also had a couple of non ground based aoe's, but they generally had long CD's and were not spammable.
Basically this is how caps work in ESO. Two people drop DK standard. 3 people cast impulse. All of this on the same 'spot'. The result is going to be 30 'hits', assuming there are at least 6 people on that spot.
Also remember that they can tweak aoe caps any time they want. in GW2 they told us no the caps have to stay like they are for performance reasons. That's not the case in this game.
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Vintus✭Noan AOE Cap is the worst thing to tackle an issue where a few abilities enable a coordinated small group to stand against an uncoordinated crowd with slightly higher numbers.
I'm very sorry but this change is absolute non-sense.0 -
JHenry✭✭NoNo No NO. ZOS, you're literally hitting yourself with an arrow to the knee if you implement this kind of changes to AoE. Mind you, I'm using a templar character, not those DKs+vamp builds (who like those AoE stuff).
Anyways, as a templar, we have a skill that can counter those kind of people. The only thing that annoys me, based on my experience, is the bat swarm's life leech. If only you could nerf certain skills, but NOT TO THIS EXTENT, we would keep PvP fun.0 -
NoDo what daoc did and have the damage reduced if your standing on the edge of the area compared if if your in the middle if the damage pool.
Having caps just makes the pvp a numbers game and it will turn out like gw2 did, safety in numbers and that game mechanic is a poor one.
I myself do not run in an organised group using area but if I see one running around and encounters a group on my alliance I always try and help by targeting the healers at the back and it helps a lot.
I do admit that area root from the dragon knight shouldn't be spamable like some ppl have said. That could have an area cap but not the area damage spells.
Patch 1.2.3 nerfed the game....
Zergballing wrecked pvp......
Now waiting for Camelot Unchained!!0 -
No100% agree that this move will completely destroy the RvR elements I came to this game for in the first place. DAOC never had to do this, because players learned you have to spread out and use other tactics to defeat AOE abilities.
This will destroy any and all chances of small group tactics to even have a chance to defend a keep or location. Many of my and my guild's fondest memories in Cyridill are based on how well these tactics or lack there of can be employed.
I can honestly tell you ZOS, that if you put this or any similar change on live servers, you will lose a ton of subs over night, including my own.
Personally, I have seen first hand what this will do when I played GW2. It destroyed PvP and was the driving force as to why I have never gone back to it.
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Nacario✭✭✭YesI think there should be an aoe cap. Certain classes have it to easy to just run around and spam their aoes with little effort and tactical thought, while they have better survivability. Classes like nightblade gets the short end of the stick.1 -
Chanz✭✭NoNo.
For the love of God, how can you even think about introducing a AoE cap? What the hell? AoE is just fine as it is, it is supposed to work this way.
DC is already in a bad state compared to the other two factions, and if you cap AoE, it will suck even more. I think even the rewards for underpopulation won't be enough to save it (upcoming patch, as I've heard).
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ewhite106b16_ESO✭✭✭NoI really hate the idea of the AOE target cap. If specific abilities need balancing then fix those (vampire ultimate). Player skill and tactics should matter in PVP, not "how many people can we possibly cram into a small space". Players who die continually to AOE don't have enough sense to get "out of the fire", use CC or spread out - they deserve to die for lack of basic PVP skills. Nevermind, it's a huge immersion killer when your "AOE" attacks only hit a certain number of targets instead of everything in the actual "area", it doesn't really make any sense at all.
This change also makes seige weapons too desirable vs players in PVP - since seige AOE won't be capped. Seige engine vs seige engine is NOT fun PVP. Capping # of targets affected by seige AOE isn't an answer either. If there has to be a cap on AOE then make it only apply to "secondary" effects such as the healing on Inhale, not the actual damage dealt. IMO players should be dealing with damaging AOE by spreading out, using stuns or using dodge to get out of powerful AOE DOTs like Dragon Standard.Edited by ewhite106b16_ESO on April 29, 2014 2:42AM0 -
NoIf they change this with all of the feedback. We will truely see if ESO is lost.1 -
Varivox9✭✭✭NoWhat I want to hear from an ESO dev is an answer to this question here: If a cap is implemented....what makes ESO's PvP any different or better than GW2's PvP and why would I continue to pay a sub fee for something I can get for free elsewhere?2
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Cry_Wolfe✭✭✭YesFrom my experiences.. AoE damage is either irrelevant against single targets (rendering Aoe skills irrelevant in such situations, or overpowered against large groups f opponents.
its been awhile, but i believe City of Heroes had the correct balance; AoE ability damage was just enough to warrant use against single target, although doing so was sub par damage compared to any other ability, still useful if you had nothing else to use.
Against large packs, AoE damage could really stack up, and although damage was applied to all mobs in the AoE damage dropped when ever the number of targets was larger than the "Cap"
If i remember correctly, that number was around ten. For every target affected by your AoE over the cap number, you received reduced damage to EACH TARGET IN THE AOE. This meant that it was still possible to stack AoE damage on large packs of mobs (or players) but that the damage being dealt would reduce as the number of targets increased over the cap...
an elegant solution don't you think?
It keeps AoE damage to all mobs/players, and does not relegate single target abilities to uselessness.
feel free to criticise, but if you had a choice between a hard cap of six targets, and diminishing returns damage models... well i'll leave that ball in your court...
hopefully Zos sift thru the crap and can see this
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Sleepydan✭✭✭NoI don't want anything to get nerfed. Not only does this nerf specific things, that really only need some tweaks more in regard to how they interact with other things more than they are to much in a vacuum, this nerfs all things.
"Come, take part in a huge epic pvp battle for political dominance that you can only partially effect!"
---Not the advertisement that hooked me0 -
gendarkb16_ESO✭✭✭NoNo to AOE CAPs.
I do pvp with 2-3 friends so we normally are a group of 3-4 people running in cyrodiil, its really hard to find another 3-6 man group to do a balanced fight but at least right now we have the oportunity to go to thigh spots or choke points and look for terrain advantages to try to fight groups of 8-24 players there.
Some times we launch ourselfs to the larger groups if they are capping a flag or just waiting for something and they don't expect us, thanks to the game not havinf a aoe we can kill some of them and then have a gloriuos death.
But then if you add AOE caps you will kill this game for us like GW2 did, zerg will be the safe spot and at the example i gave before there will not be a glourious death if we as a 4 man group launch ourselfs to a 12-16 man group we will never kill any of them because the aoe will mitigate itselft between the 16 players while we as a 4 man will be obliterated.
Please Zenimax don't add AoE cap like gw2 did and destroy the game for people like me that can't play with 24 man raids all the time.
Btw i understand there must be some nerf/balance to some AoE skills like Vamp ulti cost, pulsar dmg with infinte mana or dark talons spam, fix those.
If you do it for Pve reasons then add them only in pve.Edited by gendarkb16_ESO on April 27, 2014 9:39AM0 -
Sumpfheini✭✭✭YesAnyone remember Warhammer Online? Brightwizard + Sigmarpriest bombing groups? With the current strength of AoE it will be the same and the most viable thing in AvA.3
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Frenkthevile✭✭✭✭NoNo please, nope! I saw this in other MMOs and it sucks!Edited by Frenkthevile on April 27, 2014 9:45AM0 -
iaintoff✭✭✭NoI agree need to keep it as real as possible, I'm not even sure we should limit the damage of some alleged aoe abilities let alone cap them until a thorough review of said abilities is undertaken.
I know it's a bit of a cliche but this sounds like a learn to play issue to me. I can just imagine all the QQ from cryodiil leading to this.
Get a premade, get some team speak and maybe get to veteran rank before crying for a nerf hammer.0 -
Novalkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »Voted no to highlight that balance should never be voted or chosen by community. Thats the best way to make horrendous game.
Oh wow, you're so cool. Did you bother to even see what this was about? It isn't about balance, it is about gutting the greatest thing about this PvP system.
They can nerf and change skills all they want, but when a blanket change to AoE gets made over a few OP AoE skills and then makes every skill suck equally so that stacking in massive groups the most efficient way to play, yeah, I think they should listen to the community.
I can play without a UI that shows everything. I can't play if the only way for me to PvP is to stack in a group of 100 and just stand in AoE laughing because it only hits 6 people.
Still I think that the developers knows more about the game than you (or 90 % of the community). So yeah I (my opinion so its not unclear, and you don't need to use more insults) trust more developers than community to make any changes to the game. (If I tried to be cool I wouldn't be against 90 % of the community, so I think its the opposite)
LOL ok,.... Just to look at Angry Joe's Vid which pretty much nails it, in a very not so nice way, but he was telling the truth. All problems that we screamed about in beta and most of them ignored.
Just like ZOS refusal to lift the NDA for so long that they lost thousands of sales due to rumors that they never took the time to discredit. This is ZOSs' first MMO and I have been playing MMO's for more than 15 years. I think I know more about some of it than some of the Dev's do that I am sure are in there early 20's.
There are a lot of good idea's here, and ones that would work well for PvP and not Nerf PvE. Like the DaoC style AoE system that ZOS would be really smart to pick up.
I find it highly ironic you talk about this being ZOS's first MMO and them not knowing more than you, then praise DAoC's system when most of the developers are from DAoC (and a majority of the PvP team). But hey... You know better.
That said I do think the cap is a bad idea, I would rather see them target the skills that lead to the extremely OP dk/sorc vampire emperors. Like maybe a cap to how much you can lower ultimate cost by.
I said some,,, not all...... I love it when people try to change a statement , to something different that what was originally said, and then act as if the new statement is what was said in it's place.
I find it Ironic you think to try and discredit my statement, then you go ahead and agree that you also think you know better as well. Or else you would be in the tank for the change. Nice to see your not a hypocrite. /sarcasmoff
If a majority of the team was from DaoC how do you explain a move like this that would of destroyed that game????0 -
Devotion✭✭NoSumpfheini wrote: »Anyone remember Warhammer Online? Brightwizard + Sigmarpriest bombing groups? With the current strength of AoE it will be the same and the most viable thing in AvA.
Not even comparable. All the people saying this are ignoring the fact war had a mass pull which made this very powerful
Yes I was there yes I pvped end game no I wasn't a BW.
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dravel60b16_ESOSoul ShrivenNoOne of the few reasons that prevented me from enjoying GW2 was exactly this absurd AoE cap. This basically meant in practice that the best way to avoid aoe while attacking a keep was ... that all players pack at the very same point.
It sounds totally absurd and counter-intuitive that the best way to negate AoE is to do exactly what should make them useful.
Putting in place such a cap is the best way to considerably strengthen the importance of blobs and huge group of players.
And what to say about the heals... The lack of targeting was viable only because of large aoe heals.
A much better solution would be to draw inspiration from DAoC indeed, where players standing on the edge of an aoe would only receive partial damage.
This diminishes the strength of aoe and encourages people to split, while still keeping their main function and use.
As far as I am concerned, this cap and the lack of trinity are what made me lose all interest in GW2. With TESO it is enough to give me a glimpse of the direction the game might be heading to, which led me to cancel my subscription for the time being.0 -
morf87✭✭✭NoSumpfheini wrote: »Anyone remember Warhammer Online? Brightwizard + Sigmarpriest bombing groups? With the current strength of AoE it will be the same and the most viable thing in AvA.
Then u should know that a widespread aoe nerf is bad, look what happen to other classes aoe in warhammer online when they nerf it all.
A few select skils need to be changed not all aoe.1 -
Hestia✭✭✭NoI am much more concerned about the AOE healing limit and no smart healing. Contradicts the 12 man raid of Craglorn...<Alatreon> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required.
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