Major issues with the game - by Angry Joe

drwoody44b14_ESO

I love all the "quit the game if you dont like it" comments.
SWTOR fanboy's said the same things. People apparently listened,

Ohioastro

Left_Hand wrote: »

aalexander0110eb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, there are a great MANY issues that ZNMX really need to look into, but the hostility that Joe handed out was disproportionate. It was PARTICULARLY disproportionate for an MMO that is still going through a shake-down period that all MMOs suffer through.

The problem a lot of players have is that these shakedown periods should be avoided with proper recourse to the beta phase.

A good and smooth mmo launch is possible, others have managed to pull it off to great effect, a bad one in terms of server stability is also admissible, due to more than expected players numbers, but quest bugs, exploits, skills not working properly and other issues, those are down to improper testing or rushed releases and in my view are not admissible.

Paying customers should not be an extension of the beta phase. This type of "release it now and fix it later" attitude from publishers needs to end.

A single example of what you view as a good MMO launch would be,..enlightening. I was at the WoW launch, for example, and ESO isn't graced with the same multi-hour login queues that WoW had. The early duping bugs also somehow didn't spell doom, and neither did the broken quests. (Yes, it was a decade ago. Yes, more recent launches have had even bigger problems. So?)

IvorySamoan

nekrosis258 wrote: »

so many *** fanboys trying to defend a broken game LOL

Just because some people are really enjoying the game, and have a different opinion to yours, doesn't make them fanboys/girls.

If it's so broken (to you), then bon voyage mate! Why are you wasting time on the forums when you could be elsewhere, doing who-knows-what??

Be constructive or be gone, bro.

Gohlar

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

I love all the "quit the game if you dont like it" comments.
SWTOR fanboy's said the same things. People apparently listened,

I suspect ESO's lifespan will parallel SWTOR's very closely.

Hearts

The review was about 60% accurate, some of the stuff he said only happens rarely (like not being able to help friends).
I would give this game a 6/10, 7/10 if they fix the bugs.. but thats it, it is as he said, average, its different, but average.
Also, Angry Joe must be TERRIBLE to PvP with, all that screaming and yelling and no actual tactic or strategy, just overflowing with numbers.

SotP_Kondor

Based on the fun I am having, I give it a 9/10.

Maestro_Sartori

He actually is pretty spot on with alot of the issues...

Treluk

Watched the whole video.
The only thing he litterly does is bash on for 20 minutes about 4 issues in the game : Grouping, immersion, Gold gain, Graphics.

I am not taking his revieuw seriously at all.

Gohlar

Treluk wrote: »

Watched the whole video.
The only thing he litterly does is bash on for 20 minutes about 4 issues in the game : Grouping, immersion, Gold gain, Graphics.

I am not taking his revieuw seriously at all.

Yeah who cares about grouping and immersion in an mmo.

Pfffft. Haters.

Left_Hand

Ohioastro wrote: »

Left_Hand wrote: »

aalexander0110eb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, there are a great MANY issues that ZNMX really need to look into, but the hostility that Joe handed out was disproportionate. It was PARTICULARLY disproportionate for an MMO that is still going through a shake-down period that all MMOs suffer through.

The problem a lot of players have is that these shakedown periods should be avoided with proper recourse to the beta phase.

A good and smooth mmo launch is possible, others have managed to pull it off to great effect, a bad one in terms of server stability is also admissible, due to more than expected players numbers, but quest bugs, exploits, skills not working properly and other issues, those are down to improper testing or rushed releases and in my view are not admissible.

Paying customers should not be an extension of the beta phase. This type of "release it now and fix it later" attitude from publishers needs to end.

A single example of what you view as a good MMO launch would be,..enlightening. I was at the WoW launch, for example, and ESO isn't graced with the same multi-hour login queues that WoW had. The early duping bugs also somehow didn't spell doom, and neither did the broken quests. (Yes, it was a decade ago. Yes, more recent launches have had even bigger problems. So?)

Rift, Guild Wars 2 were probably the best mmo launches i remember, with hardly any broken quests or serious bugs, apart from the massive bombardment of players that forced Arenanet to cancel sales of more copies until they had more capacity online.

Dark Age of Camelot, Lord of the Rings online and Star Wars the Old Republic also had surprisingly stable releases with hardly any progression issues.

Also i have to give it to SE for the rerelease of FFXIV a realm reborn, great game that plays incredibly well, and a good comeback from the mess that was the first release of the game some years ago.

Treluk

Im not saying i don't care, because yeah, there actually is something wrong with grouping and immersion. Im saying he's bashing on it for 20 minutes, Bashing for 20 minutes is not a review but just spitting his anger around because he wants attention.

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO

Left_Hand wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

Left_Hand wrote: »

aalexander0110eb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, there are a great MANY issues that ZNMX really need to look into, but the hostility that Joe handed out was disproportionate. It was PARTICULARLY disproportionate for an MMO that is still going through a shake-down period that all MMOs suffer through.

The problem a lot of players have is that these shakedown periods should be avoided with proper recourse to the beta phase.

A good and smooth mmo launch is possible, others have managed to pull it off to great effect, a bad one in terms of server stability is also admissible, due to more than expected players numbers, but quest bugs, exploits, skills not working properly and other issues, those are down to improper testing or rushed releases and in my view are not admissible.

Paying customers should not be an extension of the beta phase. This type of "release it now and fix it later" attitude from publishers needs to end.

A single example of what you view as a good MMO launch would be,..enlightening. I was at the WoW launch, for example, and ESO isn't graced with the same multi-hour login queues that WoW had. The early duping bugs also somehow didn't spell doom, and neither did the broken quests. (Yes, it was a decade ago. Yes, more recent launches have had even bigger problems. So?)

Rift, Guild Wars 2 were probably the best mmo launches i remember, with hardly any broken quests or serious bugs, apart from the massive bombardment of players that forced Arenanet to cancel sales of more copies until they had more capacity online.

Dark Age of Camelot, Lord of the Rings online and Star Wars the Old Republic also had surprisingly stable releases with hardly any progression issues.

Also i have to give it to SE for the rerelease of FFXIV a realm reborn, great game that plays incredibly well, and a good comeback from the mess that was the first release of the game some years ago.

Guild wars 2 launch was no bed of roses. What about the culling which literally made group pvp a farce. This literally devalued all WvW until the fixed it months after it should have been fixed.

rawne1980b16_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Honestly, who pays attention to him?

I was, sad to say, part of a gaming community on a forum he created.

There are threads about how one guy had a dream about him. Someone else complained because he'd paid for membership and didn't get his phone call from Joe and many more from people complaining Joe wouldn't play games with them.

Joe I don't mind. As I said, a couple of his videos did make me chuckle. I do prefer Zero Punctuation for my game based humour though. His fans though, some of them are incredibly nuts.

And quite a few people there are special snowflakes. If you call someone out for bull they run to moderators and some people there have mastered the fine art of kissing the right arses.

I didn't last long although, again sad to say, I did end up with the highest post count....

Said it once, i'll say it again ... I need a dog.

In case anyone wonders, I went by Gomly on those forums.

kasain

Well how mamy gamers must give it a bad review before ESO does something? We had the guy who dropped the duping bug. AJ, IGN, Forbes and so many others give the game between a 5 and 7 out of 10.

They also played it quite some time as their reviews were ongoing. It s true that many things will be fixed. I won't argue over bugged quest or gold bot spammers in chat or dungeons. I know those can be fixed and will be in time.


But I do see no hope in group content that's not PvP. It would be way to hard to recode that. The game failed at making a community for players. That is something that almost every reviewer has a problem with. And even in game guild people can't help each other out. Couples or so on.

Like the one couple who were different factions so couldn't even quest together. I forget how many quest I go on but its all solo. If ESO wants it this way label it as a Elder Scrolls Online single player game, "Not Massive." I wanted to make friends on my way to 50. That I would later PvP with. But I know no one.

Left_Hand

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Left_Hand wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

Left_Hand wrote: »

aalexander0110eb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, there are a great MANY issues that ZNMX really need to look into, but the hostility that Joe handed out was disproportionate. It was PARTICULARLY disproportionate for an MMO that is still going through a shake-down period that all MMOs suffer through.

The problem a lot of players have is that these shakedown periods should be avoided with proper recourse to the beta phase.

A good and smooth mmo launch is possible, others have managed to pull it off to great effect, a bad one in terms of server stability is also admissible, due to more than expected players numbers, but quest bugs, exploits, skills not working properly and other issues, those are down to improper testing or rushed releases and in my view are not admissible.

Paying customers should not be an extension of the beta phase. This type of "release it now and fix it later" attitude from publishers needs to end.

A single example of what you view as a good MMO launch would be,..enlightening. I was at the WoW launch, for example, and ESO isn't graced with the same multi-hour login queues that WoW had. The early duping bugs also somehow didn't spell doom, and neither did the broken quests. (Yes, it was a decade ago. Yes, more recent launches have had even bigger problems. So?)

Rift, Guild Wars 2 were probably the best mmo launches i remember, with hardly any broken quests or serious bugs, apart from the massive bombardment of players that forced Arenanet to cancel sales of more copies until they had more capacity online.

Dark Age of Camelot, Lord of the Rings online and Star Wars the Old Republic also had surprisingly stable releases with hardly any progression issues.

Also i have to give it to SE for the rerelease of FFXIV a realm reborn, great game that plays incredibly well, and a good comeback from the mess that was the first release of the game some years ago.

Guild wars 2 launch was no bed of roses. What about the culling which literally made group pvp a farce. This literally devalued all WvW until the fixed it months after it should have been fixed.

Considering the game was free after purchase with no subscriptions and the ridiculous number of players who played it at launch, in the order of millions, i think Arenanet did a great job with the launch and how the managed to support it.

Now, mmo's that have a sub should not be released as an extended beta, which i think is how ESO "feels" to me right now. Other people might think differently, it's their right, but ESO's content and especially several of its game systems just feel unfinished.

KidKablam

It must be really cold in front of his green screen, because he had to get on his totally cool leather jacket...

Shimond

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Guild wars 2 launch was no bed of roses. What about the culling which literally made group pvp a farce. This literally devalued all WvW until the fixed it months after it should have been fixed.

They also had trading post issues. Most of my friends that played it at launch quit soon after because of their diminishing returns on stuff (I can't recall the specifics now but basically punishing people for playing the game).

Chryos

You know Angry Joe most likely gets some kind of kickbacks from companies to trash talk the competition. He is out only for himself, but he won't tell you that. We are not his friends, he is not your friend.

Gedalya

"None of the heart and sole [...] No player housing"

Epic lulz

NordJitsu

This game is at its best when you're running it close to solo.

Having one friend with you doing quests is great. Running into like one or two players in a dungeon is great.

Seeing 20 people spawn camping a boss is not great. Being unable to interact with quest objectives because 50 people are trying to do the same quest is not great. Having chests and resources nodes stolen from under your nose is not great.

A lot of the issues he brings up in the review would be solved by fewer people per phase.

This game was much much much more enjoyable to play on the PTS when seeing other players was a rare treat.

That is, for PvE at least. PvP is the exact opposite and they need to consolidate the empty campaigns ASAP.

Sempars

His comments on the party system is spot on. Its a damn joke that after ever quest checkpoint bla bla I have to ask my buddy, "you going here, You killing this guy" This should have been completed and flawless at release. its a joke.

Chryos

Think of Angry Joe as Fox News. He has an agenda (fame or fortune), and that is to make money for himself. Think for yourself, stop letting other people think for you. If you don't have the money to risk trying a new game, whether it passes your fails your test, then you need to make other things a priority instead of gaming.

Left_Hand

Sempars wrote: »

His comments on the party system is spot on. Its a damn joke that after ever quest checkpoint bla bla I have to ask my buddy, "you going here, You killing this guy" This should have been completed and flawless at release. its a joke.

I think SW:TOR probably had the best PVE grouping mechanics i have seen recently in a themepark mmo. Sharing quests, objectives, quests that could only be done in a group, multiplayer dialogue... someone else needs to do multiplayer dialogue, what an awesome idea that was.

ESO had years and years of mmo launches to take inspiration from, from GW2's inventory system to SW:TOR dialogue to FXIV's grouping tool, to TSW's ability deck system and dungeons.

Many of ESO's core game system's seem to be half assed, like the guild auction house with no search function, the grouping tool not allowing you to queue for dungeons you might have missed leveling up, the questing mechanics in groups.

Reavan

I like joe but I never take his reviews too seriously.
All of the content in his video for example was the first <15 content of the aldemeri dominion, not exactly end game is it?
He was talking about the final boss fight from the perspective of being told about it, not having experienced it.

It seems to be a running trend with his videos, he also tries to organise his guild it seems and its probably spread across a few games.
His female friend you hear in the video was bashing and only bashing, a typical 'other mmo' player here just because their friends are if I ever saw one.
Why these people waste money on something they know they wont like is beyond me.
For the chance to appear on joes youtube maybe? Perfect little fangirl?? Yeah.

So yeah the 'review' is flawed but some of the content is at least amusing sometimes.
My favorite review of his was the colonial marines one haha.. everyone agrees that game was a failure but like me he seemed to be a big aliens fan and I also waited ages for that game and it sucked so bad!

Asking these reviewers to actually play their game so thoroughly is probably asking a bit much as especially mmos take alot of time to experience everything in them.
But it does not detract that you can hardly base your own choices on whether to buy or not on these reviews of the 'starter' areas.

IGN's review (surprisingly) has been the best so far but for me the guy left out a few details like the PVP from his main review.
He also said the graphics were bad which I disagree with.
They are not 'single player game' perfect but for an mmo they are quite impressive, especially if you consider the scale of the maps involved.

PCgamers review which was one of the first released was atrocious.
It's like they are trying to emulate the IGN myth that if you don't advertise with us you get a bad review and PCgame actually seems to be even worse than IGN on this in the past <1year..
Made me stop visiting that site all together now that crap.

Personally I have decided to 'probably' continue playing the game after this first period ends.
I am not entirely happy however.
I have to relog every time I die (in cyrodil this combines with the loading bug which is not fixed completely) due to my dark stalker and concealed weapon debuff fading off.. a might pain that is and it's pushed me to the edge of extreme rage many times.
I took some time off to stand back and figure if I should continue and in the end it was a yes.
Game breaking bugs and massive pvp balance issues aside I did mostly have fun.....
And for me that is what counts.

aalexander0110eb17_ESO

Left_Hand wrote: »

aalexander0110eb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, there are a great MANY issues that ZNMX really need to look into, but the hostility that Joe handed out was disproportionate. It was PARTICULARLY disproportionate for an MMO that is still going through a shake-down period that all MMOs suffer through.

The problem a lot of players have is that these shakedown periods should be avoided with proper recourse to the beta phase.

A good and smooth mmo launch is possible, others have managed to pull it off to great effect, a bad one in terms of server stability is also admissible, due to more than expected players numbers, but quest bugs, exploits, skills not working properly and other issues, those are down to improper testing or rushed releases and in my view are not admissible.

Paying customers should not be an extension of the beta phase. This type of "release it now and fix it later" attitude from publishers needs to end.

You're right, TESO's shakedown is not entirely forgivable after the three (or was it four...)public betas and other private betas. There were bugged quests that REALLY shouldn't have been bugged on release. There's a LOT of content that was severely overlooked between beta tests and launch.

I'm personally at my wit's end to games that call a demo a "Beta" just for the formality, so believe me when I say that Zenimax could have done a better job at being ship shape.

That said, I still feel like a bit of leniency is implored upon us, especially for the later-game bugs which didn't get mass-tested during the beta tests.

Ohioastro

Left_Hand wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

Left_Hand wrote: »

aalexander0110eb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, there are a great MANY issues that ZNMX really need to look into, but the hostility that Joe handed out was disproportionate. It was PARTICULARLY disproportionate for an MMO that is still going through a shake-down period that all MMOs suffer through.

The problem a lot of players have is that these shakedown periods should be avoided with proper recourse to the beta phase.

A good and smooth mmo launch is possible, others have managed to pull it off to great effect, a bad one in terms of server stability is also admissible, due to more than expected players numbers, but quest bugs, exploits, skills not working properly and other issues, those are down to improper testing or rushed releases and in my view are not admissible.

Paying customers should not be an extension of the beta phase. This type of "release it now and fix it later" attitude from publishers needs to end.

A single example of what you view as a good MMO launch would be,..enlightening. I was at the WoW launch, for example, and ESO isn't graced with the same multi-hour login queues that WoW had. The early duping bugs also somehow didn't spell doom, and neither did the broken quests. (Yes, it was a decade ago. Yes, more recent launches have had even bigger problems. So?)

Rift, Guild Wars 2 were probably the best mmo launches i remember, with hardly any broken quests or serious bugs, apart from the massive bombardment of players that forced Arenanet to cancel sales of more copies until they had more capacity online.

Dark Age of Camelot, Lord of the Rings online and Star Wars the Old Republic also had surprisingly stable releases with hardly any progression issues.

Also i have to give it to SE for the rerelease of FFXIV a realm reborn, great game that plays incredibly well, and a good comeback from the mess that was the first release of the game some years ago.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/20600-guild-wars-2-launch-issues-persist-arenanet-temporarily-halts-direct-sales/

For example, indicates that you're perhaps not remembering it quite the way it was. There was a massive early exploit in GW2 as well. LoTRO is a fair point - it was relatively smooth. FFXIV was a disaster on initial release. I don't know about Rift. My own personal experience in this game has been fine, and I'm not alone. The occasional quest glitches haven't been overwhelming either. So it's just not coming across to me as some sort of horrible disaster, or as radically different from other games.

Chryos

Anyway, I judge the game for myself. I like it, I have fun. The only issue I have is with botters. gold spammers. I can report and ignore them. I play the game for myself, and not because someone tells me it's good or bad. I don't need anyone elses opinion. I find out for myself without the bias reviews. Then again making a mistake by buying a game that turns out to be crap will wont send me into financial ruin either. I'm a gamer, not every game I buy will be good. If I listen to everyones opinion or review, I wouldn't beplaying many games for myself.

juic3

While some of the points AJ makes are valid, I suspect this game was pushed to release early. Considering the game is coming out on consoles as well, I'm assuming the pc release was pushed forward to push out some of these bugs we are now seeing. If this was released on consoles as is, it wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell considering the flawlessness console players are used to. I'm going to give it a month or two, and if it doesn't get much better, I'll have to walk away from this one. It definitely does have it's enjoyable parts, but the economy, bugs, and server side lag is just...a bit too much like beta. On the bright side, all of that is fixable. This is a critical time for zeni.

Ohioastro

Left_Hand wrote: »

Sempars wrote: »

His comments on the party system is spot on. Its a damn joke that after ever quest checkpoint bla bla I have to ask my buddy, "you going here, You killing this guy" This should have been completed and flawless at release. its a joke.

I think SW:TOR probably had the best PVE grouping mechanics i have seen recently in a themepark mmo. Sharing quests, objectives, quests that could only be done in a group, multiplayer dialogue... someone else needs to do multiplayer dialogue, what an awesome idea that was.

ESO had years and years of mmo launches to take inspiration from, from GW2's inventory system to SW:TOR dialogue to FXIV's grouping tool, to TSW's ability deck system and dungeons.

Many of ESO's core game system's seem to be half assed, like the guild auction house with no search function, the grouping tool not allowing you to queue for dungeons you might have missed leveling up, the questing mechanics in groups.

I think that this genre has far too much cloning of things from other games. I like that this game is trying to do things differently, and some of their decisions (like the lack of a global AH) seem to be very wise in light of things like the duping problem - which would have really crippled the game if the items had been flooded across the entire population.

dreildragb14_ESO

I agree with almost everything he said and im not to fond of the guy.

Graphics arnt the best it could be.. yeah but maybe they wanted more people with poor computer specs, or even it transferred to platform consul's easier.

Bots.. good god he didn't go off on bots like I would have. He made the point though just very brief.

1-2 gold drops... yeah that's stupid on high tier mobs.

Group PvE questing.. yeah terrible from my gameplay and yes I blame 90% on the megaserver's instancing mechanics.

17k gold for a basic horse?!? Yeah obvious marketing play for $20 expansion or $15 lvl 1 starting horse.

Interface, auction house, inventory is to hard and primitive for todays standards MMO WITH the common feeling Zenimax simply didn't want to put the effort into it that was deserved when the community modders will tweak and fix it for them for free. (Now anyone who MMO's a lot knows the more a company leave a game moddable with good intent leave doors and ways open for people to mod it for unattended things like super bots and such)

Starter and low level zones never fixed beta bugs and glitches which even today are still here and mostly megaserver instancing issues.

Level 50 players on day 2 running around after exploiting missions in PvP knowing it was good enough grounds to have a rollback that never happened.

Mass unbanning of players who didn't appeal their bann for whatever reasons, so the people who got caught and knew they were doing something wrong got a free pass to come back and do it all over again. (which wasn't in the show)

Ugh need a break turning into a rant this list will get rather long.