Bolt Escape is overpowered

Neferath

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO
Everythings that needs to be said regarding the two posts you are referring to is allready said and not only by myself, but by several other peoples to.

Recognizing this, would of course require that you actually "completely" read what others are posting here rather than picking out single words or sentences in order to present them out of context to generate another flimsy argument for your personal point of view ...

Syndy

Please give me a link to these posts...

Because No One has countered my argument of Bolt Escape + Immovable is broken.

I do admit I skim through some of the posts because most are the same ole same ole.

But if you could please refer me to post with the counters of Bolt Escape + Immovable it would be much appreciated.

Neferath

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Please give me a link to these posts...

Please read the thread you are using for ranting and nerf cries ...


Besides that, regarding to your logic ... and now i'll come up with something really herretic ... templers are clearly totally op and need to be nerfed to the ground since almost every single boss farm bot out there used to be a templer spamming aedric spear only in order to prevent other players from looting or killing the dungeon bosses.

Totally op ... nerf it ... or not?

NordJitsu

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

I'll give it another go, sure.

Run after them.

There are several combinations of speed increasing abilities, gear, potions, ect. that allow you to move as fast or faster than a BE sorc.

Path of Darkness does it all by itself.

Steed Stone + Well Fitted does it over long distances. Also Steed Stone + Divines gear.

Speed potions work too.

Immovable doesn't stop you from moving quickly in the same direction.

Syndy

Neferath wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Please give me a link to these posts...

Please read the thread you are using for ranting and nerf cries ...


Besides that, regarding to your logic ... and now i'll come up with something really herretic ... templers are clearly totally op and need to be nerfed to the ground since almost every single boss farm bot out there used to be a templer spamming aedric spear only in order to prevent other players from looting or killing the dungeon bosses.

Totally op ... nerf it ... or not?

Your post makes no sense...

I will agree that Templars are a OP 1v1, I'm not against them being looked at. For a predominantly healing class I do feel I do to much damage.

Adernath

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

But if you could please refer me to post with the counters of Bolt Escape + Immovable it would be much appreciated.

You arent making sense. Immovable is a different skill and available to everyone. There is no need to have a counter for each and every skill combination in this game. This is also not a 1vs1 PvP game, you know? - and which has probably stated before: no one cares if someone flees from the battlefield.

Report bugged abilities and exploits please, but I really wish some moderator would finally lock nerf topics like this as an example. Because people always find things to cry around in PvP.

Neferath

@Adernath
/sign

Syndy

NordJitsu wrote: »

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

I'll give it another go, sure.

Run after them.

There are several combinations of speed increasing abilities, gear, potions, ect. that allow you to move as fast or faster than a BE sorc.

Path of Darkness does it all by itself.

Steed Stone + Well Fitted does it over long distances. Also Steed Stone + Divines gear.

Speed potions work too.

Immovable doesn't stop you from moving quickly in the same direction.

Run after them will not allow me to catch them.

Path of darkness will be stopped due to a root.

Speed potions wont last long enough to catch up to kill. Which once you do catch up You need to use CC to stop them from bolt escaping away again.

I have no issue with Bolt Escape being used as movement ability or even an ability to help you get away by giving you a head start. I have an issue with it being spammed and combined with another ability makes CC impossible


You have some points, but they are all easily prevented from being successful.

Should I catch a sorc Bolt Escaping all the time? NO...

Does he get away 100% of the time? Yes, unless he got insta-gibbed...

How does the saying go? "You can't win em all!" Which is true in this case, but I did convert some people who were saying it was fine as is to needing to be looked at. So I am happy, and tired of beating a dead horse. I will live with it until it gets changed, and I am confident it will be changed.

It has been a pleasure arguing with you people during work this week, really made the work day fly.

Neferath

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Run after them will not allow me to catch them.

True, but expecting to catch a bolt escaping sorc while running is as plain stupid as expecting to catch a horse riding player while running, are horses now OP since you choosed to run after them?

Path of darkness will be stopped due to a root.

Erm who is going to root you? The Sorc isnt for sure so it has to be a team mate of him/her and ... look at this ... we are at the teamplay factor again that this game is all about.

Speed potions wont last long enough to catch up to kill. Which once you do catch up You need to use CC to stop them from bolt escaping away again.

While you are forced to use speed potions, the sorc is forced to use mana pots. While you are able to keep track on her and still have your full stamina pool ready, the sorc is out ouf mana and therefore cant do anything. Actually i would say that you are on the winning spree in this case as long as you have more speed pots than the sorc has mana pots.

NordJitsu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Neferath

@NordJitsu
Nice one thanks for that.

NordJitsu

Also just gonna redirect to keep discussion in the same place:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/95433/eso-dojo-ep-1-countering-bolt-escape#latest

Hail_Sithis

Valn wrote: »

Not much of an "escape" ability when players flit across the screen and knock you off your horse when you're trying to get away from them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAryFIuRxmQ

Kingslayer

Counters to Bolt escape Video interesting stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Sheneria

lol at this video. if anything it shows how a greedy sorc can be catched.

Valn

Kingslayer wrote: »

Counters to Bolt escape Video interesting stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

1. The only way a DK can counter is by fiery grip and dark talons...in your first example when the person "escapes" he actually bolt escapes right towards the DK and ends up next to him.
2. You actually escaped from the DK. 5:10 he escaped, 5:27 he escaped. No counter to that.
3. Last "powerful counter" ... waving goodbye? Simply let them go...only for them to heal up and return to try again.

monkeymystic

That video is just a bad attempt for a sorceor to keep staying overpowered. 70% of the things in that video is not even viable in actual PvP. And any DECENT sorceror can avoid having any counters at all.

It needs to get nerfed, because it's out of control and lots of people in my guilds have already rerolled sorcerors or quit over the broken pvp from escape bolt spam everywhere.

Obscure

Valn wrote: »

Kingslayer wrote: »

Counters to Bolt escape Video interesting stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

1. The only way a DK can counter is by fiery grip and dark talons...in your first example when the person "escapes" he actually bolt escapes right towards the DK and ends up next to him.
2. You actually escaped from the DK. 5:10 he escaped, 5:27 he escaped. No counter to that.
3. Last "powerful counter" ... waving goodbye? Simply let them go...only for them to heal up and return to try again.

1. Dark Talons doesn't counter bolt silly it's the other way around. Just makes it easier to lock them in place for bash spam which will spam enough interrupt to prevent the next bolt.
2. What?! He escaped for a bit!? You don't say... Guess that's why it's called Bolt Escape and not Bolt Get-Caught-By-Scrubs-Without-Counters
3. Yep. Target neutralized and you don't even have to use your resources to do it! /wave OP! You can just stand there and recover your resources for when/if they try again.

Valn

Obscure wrote: »

3. Yep. Target neutralized and you don't even have to use your resources to do it! /wave OP! You can just stand there and recover your resources for when/if they try again.

You mean stand there and be attacked by someone else right after the guy escapes only for him to come back after recovering to 2v1.

It takes no skill to bolt escape but it does take skill to kill 2 people by yourself who are the same level. You almost killed the first guy but he escaped and he comes back with full health, might as well be 3v1

Adernath

monkeymystic wrote: »

That video is just a bad attempt for a sorceor to keep staying overpowered. 70% of the things in that video is not even viable in actual PvP. And any DECENT sorceror can avoid having any counters at all.

It needs to get nerfed, because it's out of control and lots of people in my guilds have already rerolled sorcerors or quit over the broken pvp from escape bolt spam everywhere.

You are making completely vague argumentation with nothing substantial. Show a video by yourself if you think this doesnt proof anything.

Travail

Bolt Escape obviously needs looked at. If you're honestly trying to say that Bolt Escape is no better than a horse, you're ignorant of the facts.

1. Bolt Escape can be used in combat. You cannot mount in combat. (this alone is enough to make Bolt Escape far superior to a horse.)
2. You can be dismounted off of a horse by taking enough damage, and this knockdown effect cannot be broken with CC-break. Players using Bolt Escape are free to break out of any CC used against them, and are also able to use skills such as Immovable to make them immune to CC altogether.
3. Bolt Escape is instant, whereas a horse requires a small "mount time" as well as "dismount time" before you can re-engage in combat.
4. Bolt Escape can be morphed to offer the caster immunity to projectiles. Horses do not offer any such benefits.

Need I really go on? I've never met a Sorcerer in-game who isn't laughing his head off at the complete joke PvP is when they have this ability on their bar. At the push of a button, they can often place themselves out of range of any spell other than a projectile, which they are immune to due to the morph of the ability. They can move as quickly, or more quickly, than a horse, and can activate the ability DURING combat.

This move is the ultimate get-out-of-jail free card in the game right now, and that is a problem. Anyone who fails to recognize that hasn't experienced this ability for themselves, and doesn't realize that all of the "counters" listed in this thread only work under ideal test conditions, and often cannot be put to practical use.

Some others, like many seen in that video, simply aren't useful at all (like using Talons on the Sorcerer. A Sorcerer can continue to use Bolt Escape while rooted, so that's not any sort of counter.) Perhaps I should debunk them all.

That video also shows a Sorcerer running out of magicka after 7 Bolt Escapes. Using 7 Bolt Escapes in a row will NOT put every spec out of magicka, and using a potion increases the number of times you can use Bolt Escape in a row further. The player with the Bow who was using his speed increase after dodging would run out of stamina far earlier than the Bolt Escape user, especially considering in the video the NB is both dodge rolling and sprinting together (your stamina won't last long doing that, even with potions.) Not to mention that the Sorcerer actually gets away from the NB (the Nightblade is never within range to threaten the Sorcerer, then they stop the demonstration without actually allowing it to reach it's conclusion, stating, "The Nightblade would now be able to attack the Sorcerer," without actually showing that because it is not, in fact, true.)

While Path of Darkness is a great mobility tool, but they never actually show the Nightblade stopping the Sorc. He keeps up, and that's great, but how, exactly, did he "counter" anything, here? What skill did the Nightblade use that gave him the upper hand against this ability? They failed to take this to its conclusion, and I fail to see how the Nightblade is going to be able to stop the Sorcerer once they both run out of resources. The Nightblade is also sprinting while using Path of Darkness, which means he's using up both his magicka and stamina resources. The Sorc would still have a full stamina bar after they are both forced to stop, leaving the NB at a distinct disadvantage.

During the Javelin part of the video, the Sorcerer is just standing there allowing himself to be hit. He Bolt Escapes once, then stops to allow the Templar to hit him with the Javelin. This is obviously not a practical situation, where the Sorc would have Bolt Escaped a second time. Also, the Sorcerer is making no attempt to break out of the hard CC of the Javelin, instead allowing the Templar to hit the Sorcerer multiple times with hard CC. That doesn't happen in actual PvP combat. Third, the other morph of Bolt Escape makes the caster completely immune to projectiles, making the Javelin useless. This second morph is not so much as mentioned in the video (and it's obviously the better morph, if we're talking about "escape tools", which is the point of the video.)

As for his last facetious tip of "waving goodbye", I don't even know what to say to that one. The entire point of the video is an explanation of how to stop the Sorcerer, and then they say a legitimate "counter" to the ability is to NOT counter it? Right...

Let me tell you, the Sorcerer gains a huge advantage if he or she is allowed to escape. Case in point, I normally run with a single Sorcerer in my group, and he routinely escapes from battle in order to lay down a forward camp for all the rest of us to spawn at, or comes back to rez us one by one. It is ridiculously -laughably- easy for him to escape every single time our group gets into trouble. Not some of the time. Not most of the time. Every time. Anyone who thinks these supposed "counters" to Bolt Escape mean anything once you stop theory crafting and actually go look at how the ability works in practical combat is kidding themselves.

-Travail.

nez

MY BOLT IS OVERPOWERED

Zhoyzu

NordJitsu wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

WELL DONE

i havent had much trouble with bolt escape myself ( i have a sorc but dont have the ability yet) and my main is a night blade.
I really like how you show that the ability is indeed not overpowered but balanced and counterable.

+1

Obscure

Valn wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

3. Yep. Target neutralized and you don't even have to use your resources to do it! /wave OP! You can just stand there and recover your resources for when/if they try again.

You mean stand there and be attacked by someone else right after the guy escapes only for him to come back after recovering to 2v1.

It takes no skill to bolt escape but it does take skill to kill 2 people by yourself who are the same level. You almost killed the first guy but he escaped and he comes back with full health, might as well be 3v1

So now it's Bolt Escapes fault you don't have any friends?

Maybe you missed the whole MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER portion describing the genre. You could end up in a 200v1...maybe next time you don't blindly chase the bolt Sorc over the hill, hmmm?

"Run alone, Die alone. Welcome to Cyrodiil Motha Fuggah!"

NordJitsu

Obscure wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

3. Yep. Target neutralized and you don't even have to use your resources to do it! /wave OP! You can just stand there and recover your resources for when/if they try again.

You mean stand there and be attacked by someone else right after the guy escapes only for him to come back after recovering to 2v1.

It takes no skill to bolt escape but it does take skill to kill 2 people by yourself who are the same level. You almost killed the first guy but he escaped and he comes back with full health, might as well be 3v1

So now it's Bolt Escapes fault you don't have any friends?

Maybe you missed the whole MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER portion describing the genre. You could end up in a 200v1...maybe next time you don't blindly chase the bolt Sorc over the hill, hmmm?

"Run alone, Die alone. Welcome to Cyrodiil Motha Fuggah!"

Bolt Escape is preventing me from finding friends to play with in Cyrodiil. I'm moving to fast and they can't put their F-wheel on me long enough to request it.

Plz nerf friends list, as its unfair to Sorcs that everyone else has more friends.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

So as a sorc I would just like to point out that you are all noobs and I can kill you without consequence. I bolt in nuke one guy bolt away. Far be it that I ever get caught doing this cause I have this escape skill thats how I use it obviously and to great effect cause you cant catch me pretty much ever.i mean for christ sake I was afk getting a drink when a nightblade and dk pop on me I hit immovable and bolt right out of there. Feeling I should teach them a lesson I stealthed up til I had regened my resources and went back in immediately killed the nb then ran from the dk. If only I could speak to the other factions I would have told him to learn to play. If I dont kill you first go I do it again and at the first site of a group trying to cc me I bolt away. You guys are all out of your minds thinking I have more than 4 abilities I use im a sorc come on all I can do is spam crystal shards if you nerf bolt escape I will forever be useless and people will stop playing sorcs is that what you want one of 4 classes to be unplayable because they fixed one ability?

XILoKoIX

Did you guys ever stop to think that MAYBE Sorcs can chase other Sorcs down that use Bolt Escape?

I mean seriously, who doesn't like to see a pack of mages teleporting towards their kill. It's epic man.

Syndy

XILoKoIX wrote: »

Did you guys ever stop to think that MAYBE Sorcs can chase other Sorcs down that use Bolt Escape?

I mean seriously, who doesn't like to see a pack of mages teleporting towards their kill. It's epic man.

To Counter OP ability, use the same OP ability, Seems Legit...

XILoKoIX

Hey, fight fire with fire.

I don't see how the ability is OP though. Sorcs generally have very low stamina, which means their ability to sneak/move or just sprint is severely limited from other classes.

Therefor, we move with our magicka.

As plenty of people have said, there are counters, and plenty of ways to catch them, not limited to, but including, the same ability.

Mykah

Should cost 33% mana and drop mana regen to Zero for 5 seconds after cast.