Bolt Escape is overpowered

Neferath

What people tend to forget here is the mere fact that this games pvp isnt meant for 1v1 but group pvp. It's hilarious to see all these crys for nerfs because of single persons who actually think they should be able to kill and counter everyone rather than team up with someone who is meant to fulfill this role.

At this point thx Amaylia for pointing that out clearly too since it cant be said often enough.

Diversity of classes comes with a diversity of different skills wich should encourage you to team up. Of course you arent forced to do that. If you want to go on your own you are free to do so but dont expect to be able to deal with every single other class out there.

Cause no class is meant to be able to deal with every other class on its own in this game since it's meant and focused for large scale group pvp.

If you can't live with that, move on to other games with arena matches and 1v1 duels and all these things but stop your attempts to destroy the "group-balance" wich actually exists in this game.

Well and before super uber 1337 players like f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO start again.

Bolt Escape doesnt allow you to deal with anyone but to escape a tricky situation only and while keeping in mind that sorc actually is the only class that can't really compete with others if it comes down to melee fights they for sure deserve that skill.

The only thing i will admit, is that i dont understand why the mana reg stop of bolt escape was removed with the last patch hence making it "stronger" than it used to be.

Amaylia

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

@Amaylia

Yes I do, there is no counter to it...

Sorc wants to run away, throw a ranged K/D on him, cool, it hits him after his first bolt escape, (w/o immovable) he breaks out of the K/D because he has no use for stamina anyway, then cast bolt escape again, now he has an immunity to any form of CC that will stop him from escaping. No other class has anything like that because Roots and snares effect every class but sorcs equally. If a root stopped you from Bolt Escaping away, and you had to dodge roll out of it like the rest of us and then Bolt again, I would be fine with that. Because after that roll you will be in the same boat as the other classes, Dodge Roll once, you probably still aren't out of range of the player spamming roots.

@NordJitsu has already thoroughly refuted this claim. You are simply ignoring it for the purpose of making this flawed argument.

I'm not thinking about this rationally? I have given multiple rational thoughts in this thread, some trolls, most are rational... Asking for a counter... Yet All I get in reply is L2P, Sorc got away count it as a win, L2 Stun CC, keep someone mounted...

NB have two escape skills - Mage light and Root is the counter to each of them respectively... something that is available to everyone if they want, they can use abilities to counter the Escape. Which is why you don't see "INVISIBILITY IS OP" threads. There are counters... And there is nothing they can do that will remove those counters if someone has them... Unlike Sorcs, There is a combination of skills that make them able to escape any situation, and you see that as fair?

Yes, you are not thinking rationally. Thinking in general does not mean the thoughts are rational. For example, when your premise is flawed, and you attempt to use deductive reasoning to establish a flawed premise, that thought is not rational.

Your premise that Bolt Escape is not stoppable is only true when paired with Immovable. Yet you continue to insist that is not the case, despite proof being given to you that shows otherwise. Then you change the topic of your argument to a rational that all classes should have a counter to all other classes abilities, and this is yet another false presumption. The developers are the only ones who could truthfully make such a statement, yet that has not been said anywhere. Your presumptions and premises are flawed; you are not thinking rationally.

Amaylia

Valn wrote: »

Exactly how does a melee warrior who uses stamina meant to stop someone with bolt escape? You use stamina to sprint and when thats all run out y ou have no resources to charge to them, by the time you have enough resources to charge they've already got out of range.

What im suggesting is that the skill is reworked so that it's not a free "escape any situation" ability.

I can't even get on my horse to catch up with them because i would still be in combat.

I agree, this game was built so that classes and sets have their advantages and disadvantages. However bolt escape with immovable has no counter. You simply cannot catch up with them if you are melee based.

Serious question, how far will you go to defend this obviously unbalanced skill? You're not thinking rationally.

I don't believe there is a warrior class, so are you referring to Dragon Knights or Templars? Dragonknights can CC and use their grapple attack to pull back a bolter, additionally, someone who is knocked down cannot bolt escape. There are methods to stop this ability. Please read http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/796214/#Comment_796214 @NordJitsu‌ described other methods for countering it.

As far as templars go, they may not have a good method for handling bolt escapers, and this may or may not be intentional. It is not the place of you or I to make that presumption though, that is for the developers to decide. Nerfing bolt escape is not a proper solution to that specific problem, but rather what you should be asking for is a good CC for that class.

Syndy

Amaylia wrote: »

Yes, you are not thinking rationally. Thinking in general does not mean the thoughts are rational. For example, when your premise is flawed, and you attempt to use deductive reasoning to establish a flawed premise, that thought is not rational.

Your premise that Bolt Escape is not stoppable is only true when paired with Immovable. Yet you continue to insist that is not the case, despite proof being given to you that shows otherwise. Then you change the topic of your argument to a rational that all classes should have a counter to all other classes abilities, and this is yet another false presumption. The developers are the only ones who could truthfully make such a statement, yet that has not been said anywhere. Your presumptions and premises are flawed; you are not thinking rationally.

Ok so your logic is this... ALL classes have access to the counters to NB escape (actually Templars don't though class abilities, they have to use weapon abilities to get the root), Yet ONLY NB have a counter to Sorcs? That is rational to you?

So your logic follows this path. As a Sorc I only can be killed by NBs, but I can kill/attempt to kill all other classes w/o fear of dieing. (NB has the "stars aligned ability to stop Sorcs", if said sorc is stupid and does not just root the NB, or said sorc does not use Immovable)

NB can Kill/attempt to kill any class and be killed by any class. (has the "stars aligned ability to stop Sorcs", if said sorc is stupid and does not just root the NB, or said sorc does not use Immovable)

Templar can kill any class but Sorc and be killed by any class. Kill NB with magelight/root

DK can kill any class but Sorc and be killed by any class. Kill NB with magelight/root

Seems to me that NB got the short end of the stick there. I am fine and dandy with only certain classes being able to counter certain classes, I played WAR afterall. But when only one class can counter another class things are imbalanced. Especially when the counters to the one class (NB) that can counter the other class (Sorc) are freely available to every class...

I am still waiting on his video too... I do enjoy learning new things.

Though I am afraid, I have taught to many people in this thread new things so it is not really working out for me... (I'm sorry for introducing some sorcs to Immovable)

Valn

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Exactly how does a melee warrior who uses stamina meant to stop someone with bolt escape? You use stamina to sprint and when thats all run out y ou have no resources to charge to them, by the time you have enough resources to charge they've already got out of range.

What im suggesting is that the skill is reworked so that it's not a free "escape any situation" ability.

I can't even get on my horse to catch up with them because i would still be in combat.

I agree, this game was built so that classes and sets have their advantages and disadvantages. However bolt escape with immovable has no counter. You simply cannot catch up with them if you are melee based.

Serious question, how far will you go to defend this obviously unbalanced skill? You're not thinking rationally.

I don't believe there is a warrior class, so are you referring to Dragon Knights or Templars? Dragonknights can CC and use their grapple attack to pull back a bolter, additionally, someone who is knocked down cannot bolt escape. There are methods to stop this ability. Please read http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/796214/#Comment_796214 @NordJitsu‌ described other methods for countering it.

As far as templars go, they may not have a good method for handling bolt escapers, and this may or may not be intentional. It is not the place of you or I to make that presumption though, that is for the developers to decide. Nerfing bolt escape is not a proper solution to that specific problem, but rather what you should be asking for is a good CC for that class.

Sword and shield, 2h, heavy armour, uses stamina, is a dk or templar is considered a warrior class. So believe it.

Nerfing bolt escape IS a solution. Someone who is using bolt escape and immovable at the same time cannot be knocked down or used with grapple. Even if they don't have immovable, they will be out of range before the melee guy can use charge or grapple.

Bolt Escape - 15 meters instant
Fiery Grip - 18 meters
Invasion 3.5 - 22 meters

Do you know how quick it takes to use 2 bolt escapes? By that time they're already out of range for you to do anything. Plus consider the fact they willl be a few meters ahead of you before they start bolt escaping (running around) so it's more likely they will be out of range on the first bolt escape.

Keep on defending. Using "thats for the developers to decide" just shows your argument has run its course.

Syndy

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Exactly how does a melee warrior who uses stamina meant to stop someone with bolt escape? You use stamina to sprint and when thats all run out y ou have no resources to charge to them, by the time you have enough resources to charge they've already got out of range.

What im suggesting is that the skill is reworked so that it's not a free "escape any situation" ability.

I can't even get on my horse to catch up with them because i would still be in combat.

I agree, this game was built so that classes and sets have their advantages and disadvantages. However bolt escape with immovable has no counter. You simply cannot catch up with them if you are melee based.

Serious question, how far will you go to defend this obviously unbalanced skill? You're not thinking rationally.

I don't believe there is a warrior class, so are you referring to Dragon Knights or Templars? Dragonknights can CC and use their grapple attack to pull back a bolter, additionally, someone who is knocked down cannot bolt escape. There are methods to stop this ability. Please read http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/796214/#Comment_796214 @NordJitsu‌ described other methods for countering it.

As far as templars go, they may not have a good method for handling bolt escapers, and this may or may not be intentional. It is not the place of you or I to make that presumption though, that is for the developers to decide. Nerfing bolt escape is not a proper solution to that specific problem, but rather what you should be asking for is a good CC for that class.

Um, there is no CC that can stop a Sorc, which is the whole point of this entire thread. Roots, which seem to be the god mode CC in this game (due to no immunity given), do not effect Sorcs. The CC That does effect them is easily counterable by using Immovable, or using break free to get immunities.

What if Templars skill Eclipse (Reflects ST spells back at the player) was not able to be broken out of and gave no immunity? Say I could keep that on you permanently and there was nothing you could do about it. Effectively making you useless in the fight. So whenever you saw a Templar you just said, well why waste my time... There is no hope of me winning because no matter what I can't do dmg to him while he could just weapon attack me to death, player skill or spec is not a factor since 1 ability that one class has makes any attempt at a fight pointless.

Would I say that was balanced, NO. I would not. That is pretty much the case every other class has against a Sorc with half a brain. Why try to fight him when, the best case scenario, you get nothing for the win, No AP, just a waste of time, and to wait for the Sorc to come back with more friends.

Amaylia

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok so your logic is this... ALL classes have access to the counters to NB escape (actually Templars don't though class abilities, they have to use weapon abilities to get the root), Yet ONLY NB have a counter to Sorcs? That is rational to you?

Let me stop you right there by informing you that I did not bring Night Blades into my argument because that is a completely different discussion that is unrelated. You are attempting to compare apples to oranges, and that is another form of logical fallacy, and is not a valid argument towards Bolt Escape in the slightest.

I am still waiting on his video too... I do enjoy learning new things.

Though I am afraid, I have taught to many people in this thread new things so it is not really working out for me... (I'm sorry for introducing some sorcs to Immovable)

He gave steps to reproduce the result, why not test them yourself?

Gwarok

STOP THE BOLT ESCAPE SPAMMING:
Double the Magicka cost and give it a 5-7 second cooldown.

Valn

Amaylia wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok so your logic is this... ALL classes have access to the counters to NB escape (actually Templars don't though class abilities, they have to use weapon abilities to get the root), Yet ONLY NB have a counter to Sorcs? That is rational to you?

Let me stop you right there by informing you that I did not bring Night Blades into my argument because that is a completely different discussion that is unrelated. You are attempting to compare apples to oranges, and that is another form of logical fallacy, and is not a valid argument towards Bolt Escape in the slightest.

I am still waiting on his video too... I do enjoy learning new things.

Though I am afraid, I have taught to many people in this thread new things so it is not really working out for me... (I'm sorry for introducing some sorcs to Immovable)

He gave steps to reproduce the result, why not test them yourself?

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Pyatra

Just wanted to mention incase no one else did that the E Scrolls cannot be carried during bolt escape anymore. Purely in regards to the OPs mention of it.

Amaylia

Valn wrote: »

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Only if you presume that Night Blades and Sorcerers are intended to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you see the problem with that?

Valn

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Only if you presume that Night Blades and Sorcerers are intended to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you see the problem with that?

I think the game should be balanced for all classes and have different strengths and weaknesses all around. Problem?

Syndy

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Only if you presume that Night Blades and Sorcerers are intended to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you see the problem with that?

I brought NB into the argument because you linked to Nords post where he gave "counters" to bolt escape..

NBs have the only one that could potentially work, on sorcs that don't use immovable or have don't have immunities already going to other forms of CC to stop the Bolt Escape Spam.

The problem is NBs have mostly weaknesses right now. Their strengths, being able to do massive dps quick, and then escape (counterable escape, the way it should be not everyone uses magelight and/or roots).

Sorcs have only strengths, their weaknesses (being squishy, have armor spells and can equip heavy armor, so weaknesses by choice of going full glass cannon) are negated by Bolt Escape. Throw in Immovable, you now have a glass cannon that can remove itself from any undesirable situation. It's all Reward for Sorcs. There is no Risk...

Every other class has Risk and Reward.

Amaylia

Valn wrote: »

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Only if you presume that Night Blades and Sorcerers are intended to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you see the problem with that?

I think the game should be balanced for all classes and have different strengths and weaknesses all around. Problem?

No problem with that, but in order to discuss that, you need to include much more than a few cherry picked examples. Each class and set needs to be objectively examined and the policy for what "balance" means firmly established, and strictly adhered to. In the lack of both of these things, the topic is completely pointless and irrelevant.

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Only if you presume that Night Blades and Sorcerers are intended to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you see the problem with that?

I brought NB into the argument because you linked to Nords post where he gave "counters" to bolt escape..

NBs have the only one that could potentially work, on sorcs that don't use immovable or have don't have immunities already going to other forms of CC to stop the Bolt Escape Spam.

The problem is NBs have mostly weaknesses right now. Their strengths, being able to do massive dps quick, and then escape (counterable escape, the way it should be not everyone uses magelight and/or roots).

That is a valid point to make, however, it really doesn't belong in this thread. Death Knights, Sorcerers, and Night Blades all have a method to stop a Sorcerer who is not using Immovable.

So far, I am seeing two valid points. One being that Immovable probably shouldn't be usable at the same time as any mobility extending ability, it just doesn't make sense.

Two being that Templars don't really seem to have a good method for stopping Bolt Escape (that I know of).

Point one, is an indirect nerf to Bolt Escape, which I think most would find to be a good compromise. Point two is possibly valid, but no one other than a developer has access to the resources, nor the authority, to make that call. You may make a suggestion, to them of course, but it is ultimately up to them on whether or not it fits their game concept.

Sorcs have only strengths, their weaknesses (being squishy, have armor spells and can equip heavy armor, so weaknesses by choice of going full glass cannon) are negated by Bolt Escape. Throw in Immovable, you now have a glass cannon that can remove itself from any undesirable situation. It's all Reward for Sorcs. There is no Risk...

Every other class has Risk and Reward.

Right now there is a problem, and you are only highlighting it more and more by hinging your arguments around Immovable.

Valn

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Only if you presume that Night Blades and Sorcerers are intended to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you see the problem with that?

I think the game should be balanced for all classes and have different strengths and weaknesses all around. Problem?

No problem with that, but in order to discuss that, you need to include much more than a few cherry picked examples. Each class and set needs to be objectively examined and the policy for what "balance" means firmly established, and strictly adhered to. In the lack of both of these things, the topic is completely pointless and irrelevant.

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Amaylia wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Bringing NB into the argument is perfectly valid.

Only if you presume that Night Blades and Sorcerers are intended to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you see the problem with that?

I brought NB into the argument because you linked to Nords post where he gave "counters" to bolt escape..

NBs have the only one that could potentially work, on sorcs that don't use immovable or have don't have immunities already going to other forms of CC to stop the Bolt Escape Spam.

The problem is NBs have mostly weaknesses right now. Their strengths, being able to do massive dps quick, and then escape (counterable escape, the way it should be not everyone uses magelight and/or roots).

That is a valid point to make, however, it really doesn't belong in this thread. Death Knights, Sorcerers, and Night Blades all have a method to stop a Sorcerer who is not using Immovable.

So far, I am seeing two valid points. One being that Immovable probably shouldn't be usable at the same time as any mobility extending ability, it just doesn't make sense.

Two being that Templars don't really seem to have a good method for stopping Bolt Escape (that I know of).

Point one, is an indirect nerf to Bolt Escape, which I think most would find to be a good compromise. Point two is possibly valid, but no one other than a developer has access to the resources, nor the authority, to make that call. You may make a suggestion, to them of course, but it is ultimately up to them on whether or not it fits their game concept.

Sorcs have only strengths, their weaknesses (being squishy, have armor spells and can equip heavy armor, so weaknesses by choice of going full glass cannon) are negated by Bolt Escape. Throw in Immovable, you now have a glass cannon that can remove itself from any undesirable situation. It's all Reward for Sorcs. There is no Risk...

Every other class has Risk and Reward.

Right now there is a problem, and you are only highlighting it more and more by hinging your arguments around Immovable.

How exactly do you counter a sorc when they bolt escape out of range on the first bolt escape?

xDonMega

Are you supposed to?

Amaylia

Valn wrote: »

How exactly do you counter a sorc when they bolt escape out of range on the first bolt escape?

Try clicking on previous pages, watching the videos, and reading comments. There are even some comments on this same page that link back to it.

Obscure

It wouldn't be much of an "escape" if you could be easily caught. Nor would it be a good panic button if it costs 840 magicka to cast. The damage it does is cute at best and the stun is to short to be worth breaking.
So what, you want to bolt escape? By all means. If you can't stand and deliver you're supposed to run for your life. Instilling fear in the enemy and watching them run away as fast as they can is a victory. It's a retreat, literally giving up their ground in the fastest manner possible. It's the eject button in the fighter jet. You're already going down, now you punch out or you die.

We all try to GTFO when things go sideways, sometimes we can disengage successfully and sometimes we die screaming at the internet. Sorcerers just do it best. So what? The mystical ability to run away? Who gives a ***? That's one less skill you have you should be using to make sure you don't need to run away in the first place.

The skill is blah for actually being useful during a fight, and IMO needs a Buff not a Nerf.

Niminion

Valn wrote: »

How exactly do you counter a sorc when they bolt escape out of range on the first bolt escape?

Wave and go about your business?

Why do you need to counter a single sorc running away again?

It's not like it's overpowered in actual combat because any gap closer also has no cooldown.

I would actually love for bolt escape to be nerfed if they buffed other areas, like make surge buff spell power, half the cost of the root spell, make the disorient instant cast, make shards proc itself, let curse be on multiple targets, buff pets and make them attack the last target damaged, make lightning flood not suck.

KoooZ

NordJitsu wrote: »

L2P is really all there is left to say at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrz4xExzNRY&feature=youtu.be

I'm going to get a guildie to go with me and teach you guys some of the counters in a video though. You're welcome in advance.

Idc about bolt escape, but you said in the dark talons thread just because something can be countered doesn't mean its not OP.

NordJitsu

Neferath wrote: »

The only thing i will admit, is that i dont understand why the mana reg stop of bolt escape was removed with the last patch hence making it "stronger" than it used to be.

I'm not sure where that rumor came from, but it isn't true.

My characters still receive reduced magicka regen both on live and on the PTS, after a Bolt.

Could be a bug affecting particular characters.

They NERFED Bolt Escape already in the last patch. They made it so you cannot Bolt while carrying the scroll.

Was it a good change? I don't know. With that one I can at least see that the anti-side makes some reasonable points.

But then again, they've already damaged the class diversity with that change. Now, any class is just as good of a scroll carrier as any other (actually DKs are now the best because self healing, making them harder to kill, but its less clear an advantage.)

So they harmed group dynamics and made everything more samey.

The fact that people would go get a scroll and yell, "LET THE SORC GET IT!!" Was great. Everyone should have a combat roll. And those that intelligently play to their group's advantage should be rewarded for doing so.

Although, "LET THE NIGHT BLADE WITH PATH OF DARKNESS GET IT!!!" will now be the new call, eventually.

NordJitsu

KoooZ wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

L2P is really all there is left to say at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrz4xExzNRY&feature=youtu.be

I'm going to get a guildie to go with me and teach you guys some of the counters in a video though. You're welcome in advance.

Idc about bolt escape, but you said in the dark talons thread just because something can be countered doesn't mean its not OP.

@kooz‌

That's still true.

You can't try to make false analogies and expect anything good to come of it.

You need to take individual skills for their individual cost/benefit and counterplay options.

Bolt Escape gives relatively less benefit for a high cost. It has many counterplay options that are available to all classes as well as some that are class specific. The same cannot be said for Talons which has one counter (Retreating Maneuvers) which is highly expensive and impractical in many situations.

Syndy

NordJitsu wrote: »

Neferath wrote: »

The only thing i will admit, is that i dont understand why the mana reg stop of bolt escape was removed with the last patch hence making it "stronger" than it used to be.

I'm not sure where that rumor came from, but it isn't true.

My characters still receive reduced magicka regen both on live and on the PTS, after a Bolt.

Could be a bug affecting particular characters.

They NERFED Bolt Escape already in the last patch. They made it so you cannot Bolt while carrying the scroll.

Was it a good change? I don't know. With that one I can at least see that the anti-side makes some reasonable points.

But then again, they've already damaged the class diversity with that change. Now, any class is just as good of a scroll carrier as any other (actually DKs are now the best because self healing, making them harder to kill, but its less clear an advantage.)

So they harmed group dynamics and made everything more samey.

The fact that people would go get a scroll and yell, "LET THE SORC GET IT!!" Was great. Everyone should have a combat roll. And those that intelligently play to their group's advantage should be rewarded for doing so.

Although, "LET THE NIGHT BLADE WITH PATH OF DARKNESS GET IT!!!" will now be the new call, eventually.

This post right here pretty much shows you don't want balance you want to have some special something you are the best at...

You are dps, You are not heals... If you wanted to be special and needed you should have rolled a healer.

If one class is a better scroll carrier because of speed that is not openly available to every other class then it is indeed imbalanced. Ideally you would think the tank would be the best suited to carry a scroll, more health, more resistances. Not give it to the sorc or give it to the Vamp because they are faster and no one else can catch them, Clearly shows an imbalance. Even you cannot ignore that logic.

NordJitsu

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

If one class is a better scroll carrier because of speed that is not openly available to every other class then it is indeed imbalanced.

And this right here shows that, as expected, you do not understand what balance means in a game like this.

Balance = / = sameness.

Obscure

The only problem I ever had with the skill was that it allowed for carriage of a scroll. When it comes to taking our defending a scroll, being mechanically the fastest option based on class choice is not conducive to diversity within the games many options (I.E. you need a bolt Sorc and every Sorc that isn't is doing it wrong). It doesn't present an element of class importance, it's only sets an arbitrary precedent for competitive builds and party compositions:

Scroll run? No Sorc? Then your not serious.

Now that that's being tossed out I have no cause to whine. All I see now is a skill that needs more in-combat effectiveness. Maybe if it were a more effective fighting tool people might be more inclined to use it to kill a target than run away from it, and the problem would resolve itself...+10% Spell Damage on your next attack skill maybe?

Syndy

NordJitsu wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

If one class is a better scroll carrier because of speed that is not openly available to every other class then it is indeed imbalanced.

And this right here shows that, as expected, you do not understand what balance means in a game like this.

Balance = / = sameness.

Balance in a game like this? You just openly admitted you did not want balance...

You are right, balance does not equal sameness, and apparently the devs had the same views as me regarding the Scroll.

NordJitsu

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

If one class is a better scroll carrier because of speed that is not openly available to every other class then it is indeed imbalanced.

And this right here shows that, as expected, you do not understand what balance means in a game like this.

Balance = / = sameness.

Balance in a game like this? You just openly admitted you did not want balance...

You are right, balance does not equal sameness, and apparently the devs had the same views as me regarding the Scroll.

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

And I'm not against the scroll change. I even lobbied for it on the PTS a bit. My point was simply that something being available to only one class can be a good thing. I think there's even a podcast floating around out there with the TESOCast where I argue that you shouldn't be able to Bolt with the scroll.

I was just playing Devil's Advocate to illustrate the concept of differentness complementing group balance, as opposed to sameness and 1v1 balance.

Neferath

NordJitsu wrote: »

Neferath wrote: »

The only thing i will admit, is that i dont understand why the mana reg stop of bolt escape was removed with the last patch hence making it "stronger" than it used to be.

I'm not sure where that rumor came from, but it isn't true.

My characters still receive reduced magicka regen both on live and on the PTS, after a Bolt.

Could be a bug affecting particular characters.

Well my sorc isnt affected by any kind of mana reg stop after using bolt escape anymore. Also while the german client skill descriptions still mention the mana reg stop, the english client skill descriptions arent anymore.
At least this was the case as i last checked yesterday.

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO

If one class is a better scroll carrier because of speed that is not openly available to every other class then it is indeed imbalanced. Ideally you would think the tank would be the best suited to carry a scroll, more health, more resistances. Not give it to the sorc or give it to the Vamp because they are faster and no one else can catch them, Clearly shows an imbalance. Even you cannot ignore that logic.

Erm honestly do you even consider to think about the ... you are posting here?

As stated many times before it's about group and mass pvp in this game. It's absolutely legit that several classes make better scroll carriers than others do.

Some might think it's best to give it a rather "slow" class (tank) in order to keep him alive as long as possible. Others might choose to have the scroll carried by a rather fragile class that in return is way faster while carring the scroll. Both options are fully legit and a matter of tactics only but not of balance.

Seriously the only kind of logic iam able to see through the history of your posts is simply that you are frustrated since you aren't able to rule everyone and everything in this game once it comes down to pvp.

Honestly, take a break, reconsider and have a second thought about the large scale group pvp environment at this game and ask your self if it would be balanced if you, your class, your character is able to fullfill every role, every purpose and to achieve every goal in this game while the pvp content is made for groups and group synergies but not for single players.

NordJitsu

Neferath wrote: »

Well my sorc isnt affected by any kind of mana reg stop after using bolt escape anymore. Also while the german client skill descriptions still mention the mana reg stop, the english client skill descriptions arent anymore.
At least this was the case as i last checked yesterday.

I'll go check again. You could be right.

But I wouldn't mind that at all.

That's the way the skill worked up until about 3 weeks before release and it was balanced then.

Syndy

@Neferath

Um, please refer to this post.

I clearly state I know there are holes in my build and I clearly state I expect them. I also point out there are no holes in any Sorc build with Bolt Escape + immovable in PvP...


Also, I am awaiting a reply to this post.