Bolt Escape is overpowered

concobar

flintstone wrote: »

concobar wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

Anzaman wrote: »

Maybe they should go and throw some kind of cooldown on it.

You could still use it to escape uncomfortable situations, but you couldn't warp to another corner of Cyrodiil while being nearly untouchable.

It costs freaking 300+ magicka per cast, you try spamming it.

Mistform cost twice as much.

I thought everyone had the option to get mistform skill?....So, why does it's cost matter if it's the same for everyone?

Everyone has the option to play a Sorc also so.....

NordJitsu

Lickyo wrote: »

I think your problem nord is you are so hell bent on stopping the bolt escape nerf without realizing they probably wont nerf it. I use path of darkness on my main bar and yes you are as fast as bolt escape but the path is so short you usually have to spam it till your magic is gone and by the time you reach the sorc he'll kill you with what little magic he has left.

also I have tested it and it is fast but nothing to compare to bolt escape.
and dont post a video of you chasing a guy on a horse because most the time its bugged and cant even mount a horse at all

@Lickyo‌

Spamming it until you're out of magikca is exactly what Bolt Escapers do to. Its literally a 1 to 1 comparison. And Path of Darkness can also be morphed to heal you as you escape.

So you just run 5 feet, lay one down, run 5 feet, lay one down. You spam it the whole time. You'll be faster than the sorc and catch him with magicka to spare.

The video does not include chasing someone on a horse. It shows how medium armor + bow + roll dodge can catch a sorc. How Templar and DK CC's can be used to completely shut of their escape. And how NBs have TWO escape skills that are better than Bolt Escape, one of which can also be used to catch Bolt Escapers.

In other words, it shows what I've been trying to explain to you people (nicely) all along. Bolt Escape is not OP. It will not be nerfed. This is a learn to play issue.

You shouldn't take offense to that. You should be open minded and willing to learn. I'm a Bolt Escaping sorc literally offering to tell you exactly how to counter my build.

Thechemicals

Nooblet wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

Kaskako wrote: »

NukaCola wrote: »

If you are spamming escape then your not killing anyone. Sorcerer should have more mobility over the others. Otherwise how can you defend yourself against a melee when you can't cc him? Just because you can't get a free kill on someone who is running away doesn't mean they should nerf anything.

What are you talking about not being able to cc them? you have plenty cc as sorcerer, you also have a couple abilities to increase your armour, one of which increases your movement speed.

No one is saying BE needs to be removed, but being able to spam it 10-20 times is ridiculous.

I am v10 and over magicka soft cap. I can spam it exactly 8 times before needing to wait on magicka or pop pots... that's if I'm at 100% and do no offensive attacks.

Exaggerate much?

Equilibrium in the mages guilld tree.

You're right.. I could use equilibrium for 1.5 more teleports while dropping over 500 health. I can also stand there and channel for 4 seconds to regain magicka at the cost of stamina. Great escape strategies indeed.

Magicka and health is recovered from that channel....youre starting to figure it out.

Syndy

NordJitsu wrote: »

Lickyo wrote: »

I think your problem nord is you are so hell bent on stopping the bolt escape nerf without realizing they probably wont nerf it. I use path of darkness on my main bar and yes you are as fast as bolt escape but the path is so short you usually have to spam it till your magic is gone and by the time you reach the sorc he'll kill you with what little magic he has left.

also I have tested it and it is fast but nothing to compare to bolt escape.
and dont post a video of you chasing a guy on a horse because most the time its bugged and cant even mount a horse at all

@Lickyo‌

Spamming it until you're out of magikca is exactly what Bolt Escapers do to. Its literally a 1 to 1 comparison. And Path of Darkness can also be morphed to heal you as you escape.

So you just run 5 feet, lay one down, run 5 feet, lay one down. You spam it the whole time. You'll be faster than the sorc and catch him with magicka to spare.

The video does not include chasing someone on a horse. It shows how medium armor + bow + roll dodge can catch a sorc. How Templar and DK CC's can be used to completely shut of their escape. And how NBs have TWO escape skills that are better than Bolt Escape, one of which can also be used to catch Bolt Escapers.

In other words, it shows what I've been trying to explain to you people (nicely) all along. Bolt Escape is not OP. It will not be nerfed. This is a learn to play issue.

You shouldn't take offense to that. You should be open minded and willing to learn. I'm a Bolt Escaping sorc literally offering to tell you exactly how to counter my build.

For the last time, please refer to Magelight to solve your NB problem... Also refer to Immovable to counter your in coming CC counter for the Templar, DK classes.

I really do not understand how any Sorc ever dies....

Seriously, if you die as a Sorc, you either got killed instantly in a gank or you need to L2P.

Cast Immovable, engage in the fight, refresh immovable as needed, you have no other need for stamina. If you get rooted or snared, Bolt Escape away, If you get close to dieing or the fight starts going south bolt escape away.

With immovable up, and Bolt Escape going, NO form of CC can stop you...

Clearly balanced.

concobar

NordJitsu wrote: »

The video does not include chasing someone on a horse. It shows how medium armor + bow + roll dodge can catch a sorc. How Templar and DK CC's can be used to completely shut of their escape. And how NBs have TWO escape skills that are better than Bolt Escape, one of which can also be used to catch Bolt Escapers.

LOL You do realize the Mage light completely *** NB invi and that any sort of CC gets the other yes?

NordJitsu

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

There are counters to counters and counters to the counters to the counters.

This game is like a really complex Rock/Paper/Scissors.

Immovable does indeed stop the CC counter. Mage Light does not stop Dark Cloak because the detection radius is so small. If you get a little way away then use it and change direction, detection does nothing for you. Sips of Detection work better because they have larger radius.

Mage Light has literally nothing to do with Path of Darkness, which currently serves as a 1 to 1 equivalent to Bolt Escape that also heals you and for a lower Magicka cost. A NB can just as easily use Immovable + Path of Darkness to escape from any fight. This is fair because NBs are squishy, just like sorcs. They can't self-heal as well as Templars and DKs.

What you are telling me is that you're playing Rock. Someone with Paper is beating you and you want to be able to stop them without switching to Scissors.

This game is built intentionally to restrict your build to 5 slots. A sorc who chooses to slot Immovable and Bolt Escape together is giving up potential damage and CC by not slotting other skills there. Same for a NB. Same for a DK or Templar who slots skills to COUNTER those.

You have to give something up to get something.

What you people are asking for is a way to counter a skill. I've offered those. Now the problem is that you want to be able to counter Bolt Escape without having to slot the counter skills.

*facepalm*

Syndy

Wow, is all I can say to that... If you do not realize, after my previous post how OP Bolt Escape is, I don't know what else to tell you.

Enjoy your "I never Die" button while you can.

The nerf is coming.

Bolt Escape is the Counter of all Counters... You are just to biased to see it.

Would you be saying the same thing, if Sorcs didn't have the auto Escape button and another class did? I doubt it.

I run around with Magelight out, and I can tell you first hand how many NB escape from my group... NONE, They turn invis, you see them and follow them, the whole time i am right beside them or they are ahead of me, while my Resto heavy attack is hitting them.

If templars had an ability to summon a holy steed and wisp me away 15m instantly, negating roots, and i could spam it, I would say it was OP. Especially since there is no other skill in the game like it, or that is as remotely as powerful.

If you are in PvP and not using Immovable, please don't play Daggerfall, else, continue on not using it. I thank you.

Artemiisia

enough with the nerf talk.

Bolt Escape dont kill anybody, hence aint OP

U can stun/kb/snare, hit sorcerer from behind if you want to deal with us.

Still we cant kill you with bolt escape, so not op.....

NordJitsu

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Would you be saying the same thing, if Sorcs didn't have the auto Escape button and another class did? I doubt it.

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

Again, NBs have one too.

Look up Path of Darkness. I can see you have no idea what it is.

Hint: It has nothing to do with invisibility (and thus nothing to do with Mage Light.)

Syndy

Don't you have to be inside the path for to get the increased speed, and doesn't a root stop that?

Evergnar

Yep. Its really hard chasing them with my 5'8" 400lb provisioning Orc. I'm afraid he's going to have a heart attack.

Zyle

Question: Is bolt escape supposed to still work when hit by dark talons? I've hit multiple Sorc's with dark talons and they still bolt escape away while being affected by it. Please don't flame me if this question is stupid.

Syndy

@bchulettub17_ESO

They are effected by it, they are indeed rooted...

Just they hit Bolt Escape and they are now Rooted 15m away. Defeats the purpose of the Root wouldn't you say?

Neferath

Actually i've expected nothing else than exactly this to happen. Vamps are nerfed now instead of fixing the actual problem and see how easy this was to achieve.

Nothing more than a (actually rather small but loud) bunch of ranters and whiners to make the nerf hammer crush down. Since Vamps are dealed with, ppl move on to the next skills that dont fit their personal playing style since they would afford to drop one or two of their own favourite weapon bar slots in order to counter them.

But well go on. Ranters gonna rant and whiners will whine anyways. Keep crying for nerfes in order to get rid of skills wich actually need some effort in order to counter them.

Do so until each and every class is totally equal, all differsity is gone, and everyone uses the same build containing one single skill in order to make this game "balanced".

Once you have achieved that, be proud of yourself and wait for the first person who tells you that targeting another player clearly is totally op since you have thinner fingers and are able to hit the target button way easier than your opponent is and this, for sure is nothing else than totally broken ...

NordJitsu

@bchulettub17_ESO‌

Yup. It works as an escape to Immobilize/Root. Its an Escape skill after all.

ErilAq

Bolt escape is not OP. Almost every other ability in this game knocks down, roots, or does some form of CC. Use them. and if the sorc bolts away (and this is a top secret strategy apparently) DO NOT FOLLOW. Let him go. Stop playing to his strengths. Just wait for him to return and nuke him. if he gets away he won't be back.

Zyle

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

@bchulettub17_ESO

They are effected by it, they are indeed rooted...

Just they hit Bolt Escape and they are now Rooted 15m away. Defeats the purpose of the Root wouldn't you say?

Ok cool, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't using an inferior ability against them or anything, ty for the response.

NordJitsu wrote: »

@bchulettub17_ESO‌

Yup. It works as an escape to Immobilize/Root. Its an Escape skill after all.

Now that you point that out it makes more sense to me, I guess as a DK 1h/s I think in a melee standpoint 24/7 :] Ty for the response.

Syndy

Neferath wrote: »

Actually i've expected nothing else than exactly this to happen. Vamps are nerfed now instead of fixing the actual problem and see how easy this was to achieve.

Nothing more than a (actually rather small but loud) bunch of ranters and whiners to make the nerf hammer crush down. Since Vamps are dealed with, ppl move on to the next skills that dont fit their personal playing style since they would afford to drop one or two of their own favourite weapon bar slots in order to counter them.

But well go on. Ranters gonna rant and whiners will whine anyways. Keep crying for nerfes in order to get rid of skills wich actually need some effort in order to counter them.

Do so until each and every class is totally equal, all differsity is gone, and everyone uses the same build containing one single skill in order to make this game "balanced".

Once you have achieved that, be proud of yourself and wait for the first person who tells you that targeting another player clearly is totally op since you have thinner fingers and are able to hit the target button way easier than your opponent is and this, for sure is nothing else than totally broken ...

You must not read any zone chat in Cyrodiil

Sorry for wanting a balanced game. There are 3 things that players are constantly complaining about: Bolt Escape, Shield Bash, Dark Talons...

If you are new to MMOs and are not aware that some abilities are indeed head and shoulders above others, and need to be toned down, Your comment can be disregarded. Else you are a troll and know that in every MMO there are nerfs...

If you think any of the below are balanced, your views of balance are biased, and will only hurt the population of PvP in this game.

If you thought one guy stacking Bat Swarms killing 50 people at a time was balanced.
If you think 1 class having a skill that allows them to escape from any situation where they are in trouble is balanced.
If you think 1h and shield is meant to be the best dps as well as the best survivability weapon in the game is balanced.
If you think an ability that can be spammed to root you and offers NO CC immunity when you break out of it only to be rooted again immediately is balanced. (sorcs and DKs)

Edit: I played WAR for 3 years, probably one of the most imbalanced games out there between classes, and it is still nothing compared to the imbalances in this game.

I do not want all classes to be the same, I loved WAR because each class had VERY unique abilities and mechanics.

ErilAq

Newsflash. people complain about anything. Imagine if there was a quest mob that would just stand there and /dance. nothing else. but when you got close enough to start attacking it, it would dash away unless you rooted it. the rage that would induce would be terrifying to behold, but in no way is that mob OP. Annoying? maybe. OP, definitely not. Do not mistake an annoyance with an Overpowered ability.

Numeriku

This thread exist cause sorcs complained about vampires having mist form which is fast, now mist form is nerfed, everyone else cant catch up to sorcs, so they open up this thread to nerf bolt escape.

NordJitsu

ErilAq wrote: »

Newsflash. people complain about anything. Imagine if there was a quest mob that would just stand there and /dance. nothing else. but when you got close enough to start attacking it, it would dash away unless you rooted it. the rage that would induce would be terrifying to behold, but in no way is that mob OP. Annoying? maybe. OP, definitely not. Do not mistake an annoyance with an Overpowered ability.

I think it would be hilarious if ZOS came out with a Bolt Escaping trial boss in response to these whiners.

Just to troll the bads.

concobar

NordJitsu wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Would you be saying the same thing, if Sorcs didn't have the auto Escape button and another class did? I doubt it.

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

Again, NBs have one too.

Look up Path of Darkness. I can see you have no idea what it is.

Hint: It has nothing to do with invisibility (and thus nothing to do with Mage Light.)

Path of Darkness an escape skill? I am skeptical.

Syndy

NordJitsu wrote: »

ErilAq wrote: »

Newsflash. people complain about anything. Imagine if there was a quest mob that would just stand there and /dance. nothing else. but when you got close enough to start attacking it, it would dash away unless you rooted it. the rage that would induce would be terrifying to behold, but in no way is that mob OP. Annoying? maybe. OP, definitely not. Do not mistake an annoyance with an Overpowered ability.

I think it would be hilarious if ZOS came out with a Bolt Escaping trial boss in response to these whiners.

Just to troll the bads.

Yes me too, Let me code the AI for it as well, I will be really easy I promise, and Never be Killable...

Immovable > Bolt Escape... the end. You cannot kill it.

concobar

Path of Darkness is garbage. Gives +50% run speed for about 20 feet and does not counter CC at all for the low low cost of 368 magicka.

Syndy

concobar wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Would you be saying the same thing, if Sorcs didn't have the auto Escape button and another class did? I doubt it.

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

Again, NBs have one too.

Look up Path of Darkness. I can see you have no idea what it is.

Hint: It has nothing to do with invisibility (and thus nothing to do with Mage Light.)

Path of Darkness an escape skill? I am skeptical.

No, it can be used as one but is limiting because you have to be in the "path" to recieve the speed boost, and a Root will negate the escape...

It is already worse than Bolt Escape

Morbus2

Neferath wrote: »

Actually i've expected nothing else than exactly this to happen. Vamps are nerfed now instead of fixing the actual problem and see how easy this was to achieve.

Nothing more than a (actually rather small but loud) bunch of ranters and whiners to make the nerf hammer crush down. Since Vamps are dealed with, ppl move on to the next skills that dont fit their personal playing style since they would afford to drop one or two of their own favourite weapon bar slots in order to counter them.

But well go on. Ranters gonna rant and whiners will whine anyways. Keep crying for nerfes in order to get rid of skills wich actually need some effort in order to counter them.

Do so until each and every class is totally equal, all differsity is gone, and everyone uses the same build containing one single skill in order to make this game "balanced".

Once you have achieved that, be proud of yourself and wait for the first person who tells you that targeting another player clearly is totally op since you have thinner fingers and are able to hit the target button way easier than your opponent is and this, for sure is nothing else than totally broken ...

Excellent post sir, excellent.

10/10

NordJitsu

concobar wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Would you be saying the same thing, if Sorcs didn't have the auto Escape button and another class did? I doubt it.

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

Again, NBs have one too.

Look up Path of Darkness. I can see you have no idea what it is.

Hint: It has nothing to do with invisibility (and thus nothing to do with Mage Light.)

Path of Darkness an escape skill? I am skeptical.

@concobar‌

To be honest, I was as well. I've heard so many people claim the skill was useless. It wasn't even part of our planned demonstration. I tested it on a whim and it turned out to be the very best counter, capable of easily catching a Bolt Escaping sorc for a lower magicka cost than the sorc was using.

7788b14_ESO

Remove pvp, problems solved.

Syndy

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Remove pvp, problems solved.

Very constructive sir. Thank you for your invaluable feedback.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

bolt escape is fine, the problem is that people dont understand it. the fact is if you have a sorc that is able to use it back to back enought to fully get out of combat, the chances are that sorc is so squishy he needs an escape.

im a sorc vampire, mage build, i am VERY squishy, meaning while i can do alot of damage, a solid hit or two and im down for the count. i have enough magicka to use bolt escape possibly 5 to 6 times, however all it takes is one.good.hit, and im down.

i will agree with the fix that doesnt allow the elder scoll to be held when using it, however any further nerf will invalidate it as a skill.