Broken Talons in Dragon Knights Online

Lulufia

Harbingers wrote: »

/Dodgeroll

/runoutofstam
/reapplytalons

:P

Alandauron

Rundarek wrote: »

If all you want is a root immunity after a dodgeroll you should probably stop crying about Talons all the time and just close this Thread (Titled "Broken Talons on Dragon Knight online" instead of "Need root immunity after Dodge").

This whole Thread from title to bottom cries about Talons as OP, DK as OP, DK as Noob Class and then claims that all you want is a root immunity and no nerf to the Skill.

If the Immunity is the issue here then Talons obviously would be fine, so what is it now?

Also i don't see how Talons would make the DK the Tank/DPS class you just claimed it is.

Edit: Just to clarify, i play a DK and wouldn't really have a issue with a short immunity after dodge since i don't spam it anyway.

No crying being done, but thanks for your troll.

DK's dark talons is the example that proves something needs to be done. If it were the NB's dark talons it would still be an issue simply due to how this one skill shows the flaw with not having an immunity.

Here's a bit of education for you. In order to get more people involved in a discussion people use funny sayings, or an example that people can relate to. The title is both of those, if more people aren't involved devs think it's just the one person with the issue. Dark talons is the example that people can agree upon.

As far as the tank/DPS comment, talons is what allows DK to do high DPS by utilizing other aoe high damage skills while spamming talons to keep a large group from escaping. Talons itself does not do severe damage(though the synergy sure does hit pretty hard).

Harbingers

Alandauron wrote: »

Harbingers wrote: »

/Dodgeroll

If you aren't rolling a DK anymore why such a passion to keep this skill broken? Is it because you are currently leveling a DK?

Already been stated, you can dodgeroll 1-3 times in a fight, you can cast dark talons 5+ times(this is going off VR 10 which everyone will be at some point). So your "/dodgeroll" comment must be a troll instead of an actual productive argument.

Keep trolling Harbingers.

I died to talons once last night in over 6 hours of PvP or I would say a direct effect from talons, but yea it wasn't really talons cause the direction I choose to roll was just clipped by some boards on the ground outside Fort Ash.

In fact the majority cause of my deaths in PvP are Nightblade spikes or bash-bots. Yes I got one shot at 2300 life by an incap/soul harvest shot list night. Which made me laugh.

So, when it comes down it, I don't feel the skill is broken I don't feel that roots need a cc immunity, unless they change a lot of things such as, bolt cant break root, Nightblade stealth doesn't not make them immune to damage, etc etc. Roots are in place in mmo's to allow melee players to have any chance versus a ranged fighter. This isn't the rocket science it trying to be turned into.

Sadly though it seems Nordjistu and Yourself only know how to turn to personal insults in this issue, which has been a ill-founded Crusade since I had emperorship on PTS, again once class and one skill. But if you had read carefully, I had said I have no DK on live, I have no plans of a DK on live for now, I like to mix things up.

I play a Templar Healer/Occasional Ganker VR10 atm...

I have an undisclosed level Nightblade Snyper I am currently working on for some solo Gankage fun. But if you read carefully enough you would have seen that before.

Jadakin

With spamable abilities the issue lies with being able to block and do instant casts as well. If you could interrupt the cast with a bash/interrupt or bash out of dark talons, problem would be fixed no?

Alandauron

Harbingers wrote: »

Sadly though it seems Nordjistu and Yourself only know how to turn to personal insults in this issue, which has been a ill-founded Crusade since I had emperorship on PTS, again once class and one skill. But if you had read carefully, I had said I have no DK on live, I have no plans of a DK on live for now, I like to mix things up.

You mean like you coming into the thread and saying "I lol'd when I read this, give it up Nord."

Or when you responded to @davidetombab16_ESO‌ by saying "Try harder."

Or possibly when you stated "No need for them folks around PvP."

Wait...maybe when you responded to Nord saying that he was considering unsubbing by stating "Goodbye!"

You have done nothing but troll the thread so far, so calling you a troll is more than appropriate.

Whether you like it or not this has nothing to do with you...don't know what you mentioned being emperor for...

Now on to the relevant points you FINALLY decided to grace us with. Bolt escape doesn't actually break roots, it allows you to move a certain distance, but you are still rooted afterwards. You have to dodge roll after your bolt to get out. Currently that is the only reliable escape from dark talons, OP? Depends who you talk to, but being that your dodge roll doesn't actually get you out of the 8m aoe you can't just dodge roll out.

NordJitsu

Crescent wrote: »

The ignore feature can't be implemented soon enough.

This is something we can all agree on at least. I'm sick of trolls on this forum and ZOS seems content to let them do it. Best I can do is never have to see their garbage.

@Rundarek‌

The reason Talons is the highlight here is because its the only root/immobilize/soft CC that can be continually reapplied. Things like Encase, Bombard, Petrify have to be aimed, so dodge rolling intelligently can make them difficult to reapply. Dark Talons doesn't work that way because its a radial smart root, just press a button and done.

@Harbingers‌

This thread has nothing to do with you or your former Emperorship. Absolutely nothing. It has nothing to do with me not being able to deal with the skill or routinely dying to it. As I've explained, Bolt Escape gives me an amazing counter that doesn't require Retreating Maneuvers which is expensive and unrealistic in a small scale fight (since you blow your stam.) Honestly, I don't even remember you using Talons as Emp. You were mostly Hidden Blade spam back then.

In other words, its nothing personal with me, you, or anyone else. I firmly believe the current mechanics of the skill are terrible for PvP. I have guys in my guild who are DKs who swear this is the most broken thing in the game. They're wrecking people with it in a way that's not fun.

We should stop talking about who plays what class to be honest, because its irrelevant to the conversation. People who show up to a balance thread which has been clearly articulated (as opposed to "I died to X, nerf X") and just claim that its a personal vendetta against a skill because the OP has trouble with it are trolling. There's really no other way to look at it.

You're not being productive. You're not offering any insight to why the skill is fine, broken, how it could be fixed....anything. You've shown your disdain for me and my ideas, but that seems to be all you have to contribute. So maybe just go do something else.

Carde

NordJitsu wrote: »

The reason Talons is the highlight here is because its the only root/immobilize/soft CC that can be continually reapplied. Things like Encase, Bombard, Petrify have to be aimed, so dodge rolling intelligently can make them difficult to reapply. Dark Talons doesn't work that way because its a radial smart root, just press a button and done.

How does this NOT apply to Talons also? You can dodge intelligently to avoid Encase because it has a range, you can do the same for Talons. You basically just roll AWAY from the damn caster. I mean seriously its a small radius in a circle AROUND the DK, if you know that the DK is surrounded in a spiky net of death, why are you so intent to stay within the range of the net?

Come on, no. Like I said earlier this thread is a joke because you guys keep harping on about how easy it is to avoid and how you have no trouble with it, "but you see how crazy broken it is and impossible to avoid and OP".

But dude totally we have no problem with it!

Clearly.

NordJitsu

@Carde‌


Actually what I've said each time is that Bolt Escape gives me a reliable counter. If you're running any other class, or a Sorc without Bolt Escape, good luck.

And again, dodge roll does not take you 8m.

Carde

Dodge roll takes you WELL out of range of being in danger of getting locked into it. Bolt Escape isn't the only counter, either. Several area mentioned in this thread.

You've had it out for this skill and DKs since early into your time in the PTS. They are definitely one of the better classes in the game, but they're nowhere near this level of needing to be complained about.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

I have guys in my guild who are DKs who swear this is the most broken thing in the game. They're wrecking people with it in a way that's not fun.

I'll echo this. It's a mandatory skill slot for DKs in many guilds now like it is for mine. It's actually a running joke within the guild because all these bat swarm vamps (especially the ones with invis bats) think they are immune to everything and my guild locks them down with Burning Talons. News flash.. if you didn't know Burning Talons does lock down invis bats... the one ability in the game that can make you impossible to target even with a soft lock mechanic, but Talons is smart cast.. and smarter than players apparently.

Then Sorcs like myself can blast them with Negate Magic and boom.. we just took out the vamps leading the zerg for the enemy.

Enemy just bust open a wall in your keep? Put 2 DKs down at the corners of the walls so they can perma lock down everyone into the oil waiting for them. GG your siege breaking forces just melted.

We use the ability because it is beast, but we very much understand that is completely broken.

ChairGraveyard

The damage on Impale is obviously the issue - it should not instakill people, which it certainly does.

DKs just spam talons and everyone mashes X to victory. Boring.

NordJitsu

@Carde‌

You're wrong. Go test it.

I don't "have it out" for any class or any person man. I talked about these issues in the PTS because they were just as harmful then as they are now. Its a bad mechanic. But now you're stepping into troll territory as well by saying I'm "complaining." I don't think I've complained anywhere in this thread.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

We use the ability because it is beast, but we very much understand that is completely broken.

QFT.

I'm not gonna lie. My group utilizes it as well. Doesn't make it fun or balanced.

Carde

Really? Troll territory for saying you're complaining? lol

You've been complaining about Dragon's Blood, Standard, Dark Talons and Reflect (the only one that is really kind of broken) for months. Its just how its coming off. You don't like DKs.

And test what? That you can roll backwards away from the short-range PBAOE class? I've tested enough, thanks. I'm sick of testing. Stay away from the DKs, they don't have much that goes further than 8-12 yards.

NordJitsu

@Carde‌

Why is a beta tester providing feedback about skill balance "complaining"??

I'm not one any more I suppose, except when I'm on the PTS.

But my threads/posts about these issues are not about disliking the class. I just want this game to succeed because I love it and I think bad mechanics and imbalanced skills will ruin it.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Carde wrote: »

And test what? That you can roll backwards away from the short-range PBAOE class? I've tested enough, thanks. I'm sick of testing. Stay away from the DKs, they don't have much that goes further than 8-12 yards.

DKs have the only pull that works on all players.. unlike Silver Leash.. that is extended in Cyrodiil and can be further extended if they are near keeps with passives. They have Dragon Leap. They can shield charge or 2 hander charge into range. So when you say stay away from DKs you mean don't go into cyrodiil right? Because DK has plenty of options to get to you or they can just bring you to them from beyond 28m away.

NordJitsu

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

And test what? That you can roll backwards away from the short-range PBAOE class? I've tested enough, thanks. I'm sick of testing. Stay away from the DKs, they don't have much that goes further than 8-12 yards.

DKs have the only pull that works on all players.. unlike Silver Leash.. that is extended in Cyrodiil and can be further extended if they are near keeps with passives. They have Dragon Leap. They can shield charge or 2 hander charge into range. So when you say stay away from DKs you mean don't go into cyrodiil right? Because DK has plenty of options to get to you or they can just bring you to them from beyond 28m away.

Fair point. This game is FULL of gap closers. But that's not a DK issue. Its a way to balance melee vs. ranged. (Incidentally its also why Bolt Escape is such an important skill to keep ranged sorcs viable.)

The problem with Dark Talons is that the dodge roll doesn't even take you out of its range.

merwanoreb17_ESO

The PvP QQ is going to ruin the PvE part of this game, it always does.

Alandauron

Carde wrote: »

Really? Troll territory for saying you're complaining? lol

You've been complaining about Dragon's Blood, Standard, Dark Talons and Reflect (the only one that is really kind of broken) for months. Its just how its coming off. You don't like DKs.

And test what? That you can roll backwards away from the short-range PBAOE class? I've tested enough, thanks. I'm sick of testing. Stay away from the DKs, they don't have much that goes further than 8-12 yards.

I've seen you "complain" about many things on these forums as well. But yes, the way you're going about this is trolling @Carde. Just like @Harbingers has been.

You're not providing any argument only attempting to belittle @NordJitsu, that is by definition trolling the thread.

So you stated just dodge roll away instead of towards, we replied, doesn't take you 8m. Great, that point has been covered multiple times by you. Why don't you just say L2P and get it over with lol. If you have nothing else besides "dodge roll away" then I guess your argument in this thread is over...

NordJitsu

merwanoreb17_ESO wrote: »

The PvP QQ is going to ruin the PvE part of this game, it always does.

@merwanoreb17_ESO‌

Hmm. Interesting sentiment.

Mind explaining to me how player immunity to roots after dodge rolling out of roots would affect PvE?

Maverick827

merwanoreb17_ESO wrote: »

The PvP QQ is going to ruin the PvE part of this game, it always does.

It's going to ruin the PvP part, too, given enough time and weak-willed developers.

The best one so far is the bash nerf, propegated by one person fervently making unimpressive videos killing lower level NPCs with bash. They caved to that, they'll cave to everything.

Carde

@Alandauron "lol L2P" is all you got? For reals?

Guess I need to make a thread crying about something being too strong and then about how its not that strong totally guys I can beat it all the time.

Or hell, worse case scenario I can just boycott it right? LOL

What a joke. Have fun with your pity party.

Alandauron

Carde wrote: »

@Alandauron "lol L2P" is all you got? For reals?

Guess I need to make a thread crying about something being too strong and then about how its not that strong totally guys I can beat it all the time.

Or hell, worse case scenario I can just boycott it right? LOL

What a joke. Have fun with your pity party.

Lmao! Either he doesn't comprehend what I'm throwing down or he is purposely misinterpreting and misstating for some strange purpose.

There's a difference between "This skill is broken as is" and "I can't beat someone that uses this skill." I thought he was aware of that...maybe he is...idk. Lmao! Funny guy.

Lulufia

NordJitsu wrote: »

The reason Talons is the highlight here is because its the only root/immobilize/soft CC that can be continually reapplied. Things like Encase, Bombard, Petrify have to be aimed, so dodge rolling intelligently can make them difficult to reapply. Dark Talons doesn't work that way because its a radial smart root, just press a button and done.

Nord hits the nail on the head here, it takes absolutely no effort to use the skill properly and can be morphed in your early teens so every nematode DK is running it.

Not to mention if you're not in medium armor you can roll like what 3 times max? and that's if you don't do ANYTHING else, half the time you eat a shield charge knockdown before the talons spam begins even if you ran immovable that's still a large portion of your stam gone limiting your rolls, and Akatosh forbid if it's a full light armor DK running warlock with a gazillion mana potions because everyone has abused Ondil by now.

Harbingers

Lulufia wrote: »

Harbingers wrote: »

/Dodgeroll

/runoutofstam
/reapplytalons

:P

/dodgeroll
/runfor1.2seconds
/stillhasstam
/Popsunstoppable
/killsyou

RastSekyd

As much as I hate DKs, lore apparently reinforces how OP they can be.

Harbingers

RastSekyd wrote: »

As much as I hate DKs, lore apparently reinforces how OP they can be.

Rocksauce.

Lulufia

Harbingers wrote: »

Lulufia wrote: »

Harbingers wrote: »

/Dodgeroll

/runoutofstam
/reapplytalons

:P

/dodgeroll
/runfor1.2seconds (Harbinger forgot roll doesn't take you out of range this doesn't work)
/stillhasstam
/Popsunstoppable
/killsyou

/shieldchargedinitially
/planruined
/die

EDIT: keeping it short. :P

Harbingers

Lulufia wrote: »

Harbingers wrote: »

Lulufia wrote: »

Harbingers wrote: »

/Dodgeroll

/runoutofstam
/reapplytalons

:P

/dodgeroll
/runfor1.2seconds (Harbinger forgot roll doesn't take you out of range this doesn't work)
/stillhasstam
/Popsunstoppable
/killsyou

/shieldchargedinitially
/planruined
/die

EDIT: keeping it short. :P

/unstoppable...

Duh.

Harbingers

Got a counter? your a DK and I just popped immunity.

Lets hear it.

Lulufia

So you have immovable up 24/7? hacks