Broken Talons in Dragon Knights Online

TenAngryPistols

you can dodge roll. right out of the talons.

/thread

sagitter

I agree with Nord , this ability and all roots, need a CC IMMUNITY.
i've been just killed by that. A DK just rooted me i dodge rolled and found another DK that taloned me again , WTF!
Imagine 10 DK vs 10 non DK classes...

Omniphonic

dark talons is pretty stupid. it's impossible to take off a skill bar because it's just too good. if lightning splash did 3 times as much damage, applied cc, and didn't need to be aimed it might be on par. I think it should be given a channel time.

Evergreen

TenAngryPistols wrote: »

you can dodge roll. right out of the talons.

/thread

If you are going to comment on the OP's thread can you please at least read what he wrote first about why this specifically does not work with Dark Talons.

NordJitsu wrote: »

It cannot be blocked. It cannot be CC broken. It cannot be prevented with immunity like Immovable.

If you dodge roll out of it (the only way to escape immobilize) then you can be instantly placed back into it. Why? Because the ability has a range (circular, so radius) of 8 meters and is auto/smart snare.

Dodge roll doesn't take you 8 meters. So what's a good DK to do? If anyone dodge rolls out of Dark Talons, he just presses the ability again. Does he have to aim? Nope. Is there any way for the player to prevent it? Nope. Does the first dodge roll give him immunity to a second application? Nope.

So why is this different than other CC? "Encase" from the Sorcs Dark Magick tree is a good immobilize too right? Well the difference is that Encase is easy to avoid. If you get Encased, you can dodge roll to the left, right, or through the player. In order to reapply, they would have to quickly whip around and aim at you. Not so with Dark Talons. Just press a button, no player skill (or thinking beyond Pavlovian dog reflexes) is needed. You can use this to instantly blow through a players stamina, because two dodge rolls is going to leave them practically unable to block or CC break.

This one ability is making DKs the best Tanks, the best DPS, and the best overall class to have in group PvP.

Assuming you're not trolling and just didn't read the OP's thread please go back and read the whole original post before commenting again.

Reavan

To the guy saying dks are anti zerg, you are incorrect.
In small groups and 1v1 they are more powerful than other classes too.

They need a huge nerf on many fronts or other classes nees access to the same level of skills to be as effective.

Not one class should be so clearly above the rest and you know it.
You just dont want your toy nerfed.

Harbingers

Hey Nord, Go roll a DK on PTS and put talons on your bar and ill play any class of your choosing. We'll see how OP talons are eh?

Carde

NordJitsu wrote: »

Thevenin wrote: »

Why do you guys keep talking with Harbingers ? He's obviously just here to defend his broken build because he thinks he'll get destroyed without it.

Ignore him, the discussion was interesting to read before his rant began.

This. When people are obviously not trying to be productive it does not good to engage them. +1

You really should know better than most that Harbinger's likely isn't trying to troll the thread. He has a lot of experience with DK and can easily prove he isn't playing one.

This entire thread is just one long joke without a punch line.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Can this thread die? Patch notes prove it was Underpowered which is why it got buffed.

Zafu

There are specific skills that are broken and unbalancing, particularly when stringed together. Talons is one.

Do the Devs. even read these posts? They must not understand the toll this nonsense is taking. The only reason players aren't leaving in droves is because the game itself is freaking amazing. The PVP is fantastic, but it's totally out of balance and needs intelligent fixes.

The bold escape by mages is absurd to the extreme in pvp. Might as well make nightblades cloak last forever like it did in DAoC, then they will get a free out of jail card to. I'm glad stealth works just like it does now. The Devs got a lot right, but there are some very very serious flaws and they must be addressed ASAP.

Scamp on Foundry did the community and devs a great favor by spelling it out. How difficult is it for the Devs to read this, see it for themselves and get to work on fixing all the stuff that is wrecking any degree of balance in this game?

Source: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pvp-vampire-dk-the-raid-boss/



Here is probably the strongest build for PVP currently at least for DKs. It takes advantage of pretty much every broken game mechanic that DK has access to.
So don’t be suprised if it doesn’t work after a patch or two.

Esohead Calc

Stats & Gear
I threw everything into HP and enchanted my gear with HP enchantments too. That’s because I could softcap my magicka with food buff for max damage.

My gear should be quite obvious for some but here it is.
3x Akaviri Dragonguard (PVE Drop) for 20% ultimate cost reduction
3x Seducer (3 traits Crafted) for 3% reduction in all spells including ultimates
3x Twilight’s Embrace (3 traits Crafted) for 10% more healing taken
3x Vestments of The Warlock (PVE Drop) for sustain “Magicka Flood Once per minute, when below 33% Magicka, gain (562) Magicka”

As warlock set was my necklace and two rings you could go with bash damage jewelrys too for more single target damage.

The build itself mainly relies on low cost vampire ultimate, it’s already good. Healing yourself about ~200hp per second for each target that is in it.
But it gets even better with Battle Roar to keep your magicka and stamina up as well, the sustainability is pretty much unmatched.

Combat is fairly simple, keep your stats up by spamming the ultimate, use burning talons to waste your magicka away and if you need more single target damage, you can bash with your stamina.
There is option for retreat or chase with alliance war assault skill Retreating Maneuver and vampire skill Elusive Mist.

PVP Video

Links
Esohead Calc – http://tinyurl.com/mf6gbk8
PVP Video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBlMayv12M

Also, don’t hate the player. Hate the game, this isn’t cheating just combination of things that makes it unbalanced. Hopefully we will get PVP “fixed” and balanced soon. Some of these things (like the dupe) were already reported in the beta but looks like game developers take higher priority fixing the quests and other stuff than focusing on PVP. Which is nice, at least something is happening. Hopefully they will take a look in PVP balance soon..

Grim13

Dark Talons... Dark @#$%! Talons. smh

Alandauron

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Can this thread die? Patch notes prove it was Underpowered which is why it got buffed.

No, it just hadn't been brought up yet, so they assumed nothing was wrong with it.

We know how to counter it, and I can beat a DK with my NB, which has so many currently broken abilities, so it's not a matter of the DK itself being overpowered. The concern is with this ONE ability and the fact that it is being spammed

Varicite wrote: »

-AOE of 8 meters
-Damage over time
-Damage up front
-Cannot be blocked
-CC immunity ignored
-Allows synergy

I just described Sorc's Lightning Splash. Sorcs also have the other AoE unblockable immobilize CC in Encase and the resource passives to spam it all day long, which would add "CC immunity ignored".

As for the OP, this is most definitely a nerf thread.

Quit zerging around in the middle of a huge group; spread out.

Someone said that "CC should be used at the proper time". An AoE root SHOULD be used when the enemy is all clumped together like morons trying to rush you. That is literally the most proper time.

So again, quit grouping up into a huge mob just begging to be AoE'd. Spread out, use tactics. You know, fight with a bit more intelligence, basically.

Even this example has to use 2 Sorcerer abilities to get close to the same effects of burning talons.

@Varicite, you also forgot to mention that Lightning Splash needs to be aimed which takes a bit of extra time to do, and then you'd have to cast that encase ability before in order to even have anyone take any damage in the aoe. So that 2 slots as compared to 1. Not really the same. I asked for 1 ability that comes close, not 2 that combined can have similar effects.

DK dark talons requires no aim, just wait at a choke point or use charge to run into a group that happened to get too close to each other. Even experienced PvPers bunch up from time to time, when running from place to place, they just know how to spread out as soon as entering an encounter.

Drekor

Zafu wrote: »

*snip*

The problem with DK's is battle roar + vamp ult + ult reduction. Only one of those is actually the DK... battle roar. NB's can also do this with leeching strikes. Sorcs and templars can't do it quite so well

jman544

Talons is indeed a very good skill. But luckily for you there is an even better skill which is an absolute hard PvP counter Talons and all other roots.... Retreating Maneuvers.

If only one person in your group slots Retreating Maneuvers you pretty much need not worry about roots, since that skill can be spammed just as quick as Talons.

People need to stop whining about skills and actually start looking at the skill list in an effort to adapt to the meta game. Good players and successful people actually take a second to think about challenges and then adapt and try to solve a problem (yes you can learn life lessons in video games). It's says a lot about a person who complains and asks others to solve problems for them. You will find that these people are generally too weak or too lazy to solve things on their own.

I bet no one on this board who complained ever even though about specing the ability because it is not part of today's meta's cookie cutter specs (sad lack of originality). I bet you one month from now it will be mandatory for at least one group member in all serious pvp groups to spec Retreating Maneuvers (at which point the weak and uniformed will demand a nerf to it). I'm down to hear out any arguments that suggest Retreating Maneuvers is not a total hard group counter to talons. Don't react, adapt and dominate, it will serve you well in life especially in endeavors that are way more important than a video game.

Maverick827

jman544 wrote: »

Talons is indeed a very good skill. But luckily for you there is an even better skill which is an absolute hard vP counter Talons and all other roots.... Retreating Maneuvers.

If only one person in your group slots Retreating Maneuvers you pretty much need not worry about roots, since that skill can be spammed just as quick as Talons.

People need to stop whining about skills and actually start looking at the skill list in an effort to adapt to the meta game. It's says a lot about a person who complains and asks others to solve thing for them because they are too weak or to lazy to solve things on their own. Good players and successful people actually take a second to think about challenges and then adapt and try to solve tge problem (yes you can learn life lessons in video games).

I bet no one on this board who complained ever even though about specing the ability because it is not part of today's meta's cookie cutter specs. I bet you one month from now it will be mandatory for at least one group member in all serious pvp groups. I'm down to hear out any arguments that suggest Retreating Maneuvers is not a total hard group counter to talons. Don't react, adapt and dominate, it will serve you well in life in endeavors way more important than a video game.

But that skill doesn't increase my DPS, so it suxx0rz nerf Dark Talons Ron Paul 2012.

Alandauron

jman544 wrote: »

It's says a lot about a person who complains and asks others to solve problems for them. You will find that these people are generally too weak or too lazy to solve things on their own.

This right here makes your entire argument void and useless. You know nothing about me, he fact that I was in the Marine Corps, the fact that I solve my problems myself unless I just plain can't. The fact that I am perfectly capable of countering this build, using dark talons, myself and so can several others that have stated that this one single skill needs to be fixed. Yes there are counters, but the skill is broke.

Take your generalizations and keep them to yourself since you actually have no clue what you're saying.

Still_Mind

Talons may seem (and be) a little too functional, but only if you view it as an isolated skill. However, if we view it in light of poor magicka management of the DK class, along with its considerable cost, I would say that it's balanced.

As far as groups of DKs chaining Talons, it's group play vs group play. Talons is PBAoE, which forces a certain type of positioning for effective use, which, in turn. may be exploited as part of counterplay.

The Dragon Knight is designed to be the choke point class. If you fight an enemy on their terms, you will lose. That's the most basic notion in the Art of Stating the Obvious (a la Art of War).

However I do echo the notion that, for such an expensive ability, Dodge roll should offer something of a short-term (1-2 sec) invulnerability to root\snare effects after being used.

Zafu

jman544 wrote: »

Talons is indeed a very good skill. But luckily for you there is an even better skill which is an absolute hard PvP counter Talons and all other roots.... Retreating Maneuvers.

If only one person in your group slots Retreating Maneuvers you pretty much need not worry about roots, since that skill can be spammed just as quick as Talons.

I can certainly test this later but asking you; will retreating maneuvers break the root if talons is cast first?

Thanks.

jman544

Yes Retreating Maneuvers does break the root, it does not matter what skill is cast first. It is a hard counter.

My point isn't invalid nor was I over generalizing. It is not invalid because I identified a skill that is an absolute effective counter. Your failing to appreciate that Dark Talons is broken only when no one uses a skill designed to render it useless, but Dark Talons is weak sauce if everyone uses a skill to counter it. It's the very essence of a meta-game and the essence of strategy. A one dimensional approach to viewing skills is not logical nor should it be successful, as the game was designed to function in a multidimensional context. Your statement that "i can counter dark talons by using dark talons" is demonstrative of your failure to comprehend this point.

Further, I wasn't personally attacking your character I'm not sure why you took what I said personally. I think we should encourage people to seek out solutions before asking for things to be solved for them. Be honest, did you ever think about using Retreating Maneuver's as a counter. The fact is you didn't is because you were too focused on complaining and choose to ignore problem solving.

All i'm saying is that a defeatist attitude breads angry, unhappy and often unsuccessful people. A Marine would really disagree with that sentiment? You probably know more about staying focused to get the job done and utilizing unconventional resources to tip the balance and gain the upper hand than most.

Crescent

Varicite wrote: »

Alandauron wrote: »

@thread. I don't use a Dragon Knight cause I'm one of those silly single target lovers, so I roll a night blade. I know that when a DK shows up in PvP that I need to stay at range and avoid allowing them to close the distance. That being said lets just look at the ability:

-AOE of 8 meters
-Damage over time
-Damage up front
-CC lockdown
-Cannot be blocked
-CC immunity ignored
-Allows synergy

Come on now, what other ability even comes close to that?

-AOE of 8 meters
-Damage over time
-Damage up front
-Cannot be blocked
-CC immunity ignored
-Allows synergy

I just described Sorc's Lightning Splash. Sorcs also have the other AoE unblockable immobilize CC in Encase and the resource passives to spam it all day long, which would add "CC immunity ignored".

As for the OP, this is most definitely a nerf thread.

Quit zerging around in the middle of a huge group; spread out.

Someone said that "CC should be used at the proper time". An AoE root SHOULD be used when the enemy is all clumped together like morons trying to rush you. That is literally the most proper time.

So again, quit grouping up into a huge mob just begging to be AoE'd. Spread out, use tactics. You know, fight with a bit more intelligence, basically.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Lightning Splash is terrible don't even compare it.

Alandauron

Still_Mind wrote: »

Talons may seem (and be) a little too functional, but only if you view it as an isolated skill. However, if we view it in light of poor magicka management of the DK class, along with its considerable cost, I would say that it's balanced.

However I do echo the notion that, for such an expensive ability, Dodge roll should offer something of a short-term (1-2 sec) invulnerability to root\snare effects after being used.

I listened to everyone saying Dark Talons is expensive, and before I was able to put together a VR 9 template in the PTS for testing this I was oblivious to the truth of this.

Dark Talons is NOT expensive at all. Those stating it can only be cast 2-3 times are just plain lying. As a VR 9 BEFORE I allocated any points into anything I was able to cast burning talons 6-7 times before running out of magicka. That was also with no armor on(so in other words no gear enhancements).

Roll dodge isn't a set amount, it is a percentage of your stamina(which makes sense for every other situation in the game). You can use dodge roll 3 times before you don't have enough stamina to do it again. So in comparison you can dodge roll out 3 times and the DK still has 4+ casts of burning talons or w/e other magicka skill they want to use once you're out of stamina.

PLUS you can no longer block their attacks. Seriously guys, just stop lying. I understand you like winning, so do I, but it feels better if you win from those tactics rather than exploiting broken skills and claiming they are fine.

Alandauron

jman544 wrote: »

Your statement that "i can counter dark talons by using dark talons" is demonstrative of your failure to comprehend this point.

I looked back at that and realized I didn't make it clear. I was intending to say that I know how to counter any build using the dark talon ability. I DO NOT use a DK, I use a NB. Once again not a failure on my part, a false assumption and failure on your part.

jman544 wrote: »

Further, I wasn't personally attacking your character I'm not sure why you took what I said personally. I think we should encourage people to seek out solutions before asking for things to be solved for them. Be honest, did you ever think about using Retreating Maneuver's as a counter. The fact is you didn't is because you were too focused on complaining and choose to ignore problem solving.

You ever get tired of being wrong? Yes we utilize Retreating Maneuver and have before this post ever went up. The fact is that you have no clue what you're talking about and are using broad generalizations about others to try to land your opinion.

jman544 wrote: »

All i'm saying is that a defeatist attitude breads angry, unhappy and often unsuccessful people. A Marine would really disagree with that sentiment? You probably know more about staying focused to get the job done and utilizing unconventional resources to tip the balance and gain the upper hand than most.

And all I'm saying is that making generalizations about others that you have no clue about is poor form. Your assumptions have only destroyed your argument completely. Whatever merit you had went away when you assumed EVERYONE that wants broken talons fixed is either uneducated or lazy.

Carde

You keep saying you have no problem countering the ability, and then continue to drive home how broken and uncounterable the ability is.


Which is? Its either so unbelievably broken, "the most broken skill in an MMO ever" I believe one of you put it, but you have no problem countering it.

It can't work both ways. If its broken, you aren't countering it, if its counterable, then its not broken. Plz be consistent.

jman544

Currently no one is using Retreating Maneuvers in PvP, so the perception is that Dark Talons is OP. Without extensive testing I can not indisputably say the two skills balance each other, but from personal experience and at least looking at them on paper I believe that Retreating Maneuvers provides enough balance and that a nerf really isn't necessary. I hope people will begin using Retreating Maneuvers and come to recognize it's an awesome ability in it's own right and largely balances some other skills. I think that would be a healthy metagame that I hope to see develop and not be ruined by people who are short-cited because of anger, frustration and a ridiculous belief that they deserve to be elite. I encourage people to go out and slot Retreating Maneuvers and report back.

@alandauron. Your arguments are inconsistent and lack merit. How can a skill be so game breaking if you "know how to counter it on every class". Further, you have purposefully or unintentionally misstated entire portions of what I've been saying in a misguided attempt to make me seem cruel and disparaging. In reality I was merely trying to motivate people to explore using new skills and not go through life trying to whine away all their problems. People who complain more than they take action, I do believe generally are drags on the rest of us.

As much as you want to keep saying "I don't know what I'm talking about" you've added nothing of import to the conversation. I've at least shared a skill that mitigates your concerns and have been more than open to debating it's effectiveness and explain my position as to why i think Dark Talons need not be nerfed in light of a skill that balances it fantastically.

Instead of engaging in an honest debate, you have utilized straw man arguments and rested upon logical fallacies. The simple fact that you admitted you were unclear and than blamed me for misunderstanding you speaks volumes. I no longer need to assume anything, as your language skills, logic and temperament really says it all.

Still_Mind

Alandauron wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

Talons may seem (and be) a little too functional, but only if you view it as an isolated skill. However, if we view it in light of poor magicka management of the DK class, along with its considerable cost, I would say that it's balanced.

However I do echo the notion that, for such an expensive ability, Dodge roll should offer something of a short-term (1-2 sec) invulnerability to root\snare effects after being used.

I listened to everyone saying Dark Talons is expensive, and before I was able to put together a VR 9 template in the PTS for testing this I was oblivious to the truth of this.

Dark Talons is NOT expensive at all. Those stating it can only be cast 2-3 times are just plain lying. As a VR 9 BEFORE I allocated any points into anything I was able to cast burning talons 6-7 times before running out of magicka. That was also with no armor on(so in other words no gear enhancements).

Roll dodge isn't a set amount, it is a percentage of your stamina(which makes sense for every other situation in the game). You can use dodge roll 3 times before you don't have enough stamina to do it again. So in comparison you can dodge roll out 3 times and the DK still has 4+ casts of burning talons or w/e other magicka skill they want to use once you're out of stamina.

PLUS you can no longer block their attacks. Seriously guys, just stop lying. I understand you like winning, so do I, but it feels better if you win from those tactics rather than exploiting broken skills and claiming they are fine.

Oh, it's "not expensive at all" if all you use Magicka for is spamming Talons.

Also, stop acting as if Talons is nearly as bad as the Vampire outrage. This is getting ridiculous. Talons aren't an "I win button". Gross exaggerations and bold, accusatory statements don't help your cause, just tell volumes about you, as a player and, quite possibly, as a person.

And assumptions are often a thankless endeavour, I'm actually maining a Nightblade tank (somewhat akin to Kutsuu's Juggernaut build).

NordJitsu

@Still_Mind‌

Enjoy being underpowered.

Still_Mind

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Still_Mind‌

Enjoy being underpowered.

Umm, thanks. Being able to slaughter, or drive away almost anything 1v1, and being able to outrun what I can't outgun, is quite enough for me.

On the sidenote, your name is somehow awesome

Harbingers

Carde wrote: »

You keep saying you have no problem countering the ability, and then continue to drive home how broken and uncounterable the ability is.


Which is? Its either so unbelievably broken, "the most broken skill in an MMO ever" I believe one of you put it, but you have no problem countering it.

It can't work both ways. If its broken, you aren't countering it, if its counterable, then its not broken. Plz be consistent.

I lol' at them.

Alandauron

Carde wrote: »

You keep saying you have no problem countering the ability, and then continue to drive home how broken and uncounterable the ability is.


Which is? Its either so unbelievably broken, "the most broken skill in an MMO ever" I believe one of you put it, but you have no problem countering it.

It can't work both ways. If its broken, you aren't countering it, if its counterable, then its not broken. Plz be consistent.

@Carde, you know better than that. Just because something is broken doesn't mean you can't beat someone using it. The skill is broken, read the OP, read my statement about EVERYTHING this one ability is capable of and then look through every other skill in the game. Nothing else comes close.

Still_Mind wrote: »

Oh, it's "not expensive at all" if all you use Magicka for is spamming Talons.

Also, stop acting as if Talons is nearly as bad as the Vampire outrage. This is getting ridiculous. Talons aren't an "I win button". Gross exaggerations and bold, accusatory statements don't help your cause, just tell volumes about you, as a player and, quite possibly, as a person.

I'm sorry...what exaggerations? I put down facts in that post...no exaggeration at all.

-I made a template VR 9 DK
-I unequipped ALL armor and jewelry
-I was just playing around, put Talons on my bar
-I found a mob and just spammed burning talons
-I had NOT used any skill points yet

In other words after putting on gear and speccing your character you SHOULD have more available magicka, and therefore the ability to use burning talons even more(or rather utilize talons to burn up your opponents stamina then use your remaining magicka, WHICH WILL BE MORE THAN ENOUGH WITH YOUR OPPONENT UNABLE TO BLOCK, for other skills/spells).

And as for the roll dodge thing...

-You can only roll dodge 3 times if you don't do anything else, don't use any other skills, no blocking, no sprinting
-If you are blocking and using other skills you will likely only get 1 or 2 roll dodge

So based off that, my post was anything but exaggerating, in fact it was giving the benefit to more possible roll dodges than you will actually be able to get in a combat situation.

So again...what exaggeration?

Alandauron

Harbingers wrote: »

I lol' at them.

I LOL at you and the fact that you defend broken abilities so you can exploit them. Play the game, don't exploit it. But you're just going to claim that you don't and that your builds are legit etc. Sure...

Still_Mind

Alandauron wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

Oh, it's "not expensive at all" if all you use Magicka for is spamming Talons.

Also, stop acting as if Talons is nearly as bad as the Vampire outrage. This is getting ridiculous. Talons aren't an "I win button". Gross exaggerations and bold, accusatory statements don't help your cause, just tell volumes about you, as a player and, quite possibly, as a person.

I'm sorry...what exaggerations? I put down facts in that post...no exaggeration at all.

-I made a template VR 9 DK
-I unequipped ALL armor and jewelry
-I was just playing around, put Talons on my bar
-I found a mob and just spammed burning talons
-I had NOT used any skill points yet

In other words after putting on gear and speccing your character you SHOULD have more available magicka, and therefore the ability to use burning talons even more(or rather utilize talons to burn up your opponents stamina then use your remaining magicka, WHICH WILL BE MORE THAN ENOUGH WITH YOUR OPPONENT UNABLE TO BLOCK, for other skills/spells).

And as for the roll dodge thing...

-You can only roll dodge 3 times if you don't do anything else, don't use any other skills, no blocking, no sprinting
-If you are blocking and using other skills you will likely only get 1 or 2 roll dodge

So based off that, my post was anything but exaggerating, in fact it was giving the benefit to more possible roll dodges than you will actually be able to get in a combat situation.

So again...what exaggeration?

The exaggeration being that you blow it out of proportion.

First, yes, your facts are true, but their significance is........ dependent a lot on the context.

So let's do this.

First, what is it that Dark Talons does? It holds you in place for 4 seconds. That's it. No instant death. No heavy damage. No being completely shut down.

So, he stacked DoTs on you and is kiting you with Talons? Well, there are ranged setups against that. He roots you in a pool of heavy ground-based damage? He and his buddies lock your clustered group, spamming synergy? Congratulations, you're fighting on the terms of the enemy, and Sun Tzu wouldn't approve of that, would he?

So I ask you this - where's the urgent need to roll out\break each single instance of Talons? Do you really absolutely need to break it each time you're affected by it? Or it's some sort of psychological compulsion for freedom?

DK is has a very defined combat niche. PBAoE. That's what he is. A choke point class. Cluster vs cluster, yes, DKs have an advantage. But that's what the Eight Divines gave us brains for, right?

This really reminds me of the whole "Smash" outcries in SWToR. Basically, Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors could spec into a heavy guaranteed crit PBAoE skill (usable once in 9-12 secs). A lone Warrior\Knight did lay perfectly manageable pressure, but when stacked, they could decimate clusters of players in one charge. Stupid players died to them and cried nerf. Smart players simply avoided being clustered and killed them with ease.

Also, you seem to be very passionate about the issue. I'd suggest you step away for a couple of days to approach it with a clear head. Dark Talons, by far, isn't the biggest balancing issue in ESO PvP.