Rollback yes or no

Imryll

Bluntski wrote: »

Why does everyone one assume that they would have to roll back an entire server? They can do it on a character to character basis.

I don't think folks are assuming that. They're just responding to the suggestions in the OP--which do involve a server-wide rollback.

DoctorBear

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

While it seems like a sound strategy, i imagine with all the information that ZOS can gather from the mega-servers for the users to have to be involved (Which would only delay the process, and may have privacy issues implicated) would be unnecessary. In fact, i don't see how innocent bystanders would have to necessarily be harmed in any sense, other than the items that they may have bought (unknowingly) from dupers being deleted. And in which case they could be compensated with the gold they originally traded for those items. To me, that seems more sensible. But yes, users who clearly had no hand in legendary items or were effected directly by the dupe, knew about it, or exploited it, I.E the majority of the player-base... Should be allowed to stay untouched by this predicament. Not just from a marketing point of view, but just from logical sense.

JohnG

If you think some minor exploit that will have no effect on the games economy within a few months time will kill the game wait till you see what happens if they do a roll back. Roll back my characters that I have been working on for 3 weeks and tell me to start over, I will tell you to go *** yourself and do a charge back, and I would wager a very large percentage of the games population would join me.

Bluntski

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

rootimus

Bluntski wrote: »

@Katkon‌

They can rollback individual characters...

They can? I could have swore I saw a post from one of the Zenimax people saying they cannot.

wean

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

That is not our problem. That is theirs. They are getting to the point where they can't deliver on their services and some will be walking. Losing revenue would be far worse. I am not preaching doom and gloom, but these could be the things that do ultimately cause a F2P model.

Tetrasoli

JohnG wrote: »

If you think some minor exploit that will have no effect on the games economy within a few months time will kill the game wait till you see what happens if they do a roll back. Roll back my characters that I have been working on for 3 weeks and tell me to start over, I will tell you to go *** yourself and do a charge back, and I would wager a very large percentage of the games population would join me.

Roll back a week or two in a game where players have put in years of work and are invested in their characters is one thing. Roll back an MMO that's still in the "first 30-days free" phase and it's suicide.

babylon

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

This^

If they don't have someone capable of doing this I can hook them up with a consultant who'll do it properly and efficiently.

Attorneyatlawl

DoctorBear wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

While it seems like a sound strategy, i imagine with all the information that ZOS can gather from the mega-servers for the users to have to be involved (Which would only delay the process, and may have privacy issues implicated) would be unnecessary. In fact, i don't see how innocent bystanders would have to necessarily be harmed in any sense, other than the items that they may have bought (unknowingly) from dupers being deleted. And in which case they could be compensated with the gold they originally traded for those items. To me, that seems more sensible. But yes, users who clearly had no hand in legendary items or were effected directly by the dupe, knew about it, or exploited it, I.E the majority of the player-base... Should be allowed to stay untouched by this predicament. Not just from a marketing point of view, but just from logical sense.

I'm quite wealthy in-game, in fact probably one of the top 20-40 wealthiest in ESO at this time both in terms of gold and net worth in items. I'd be pretty tee'd off if they wiped out tons of items I bought with no knowledge or way to know they may have been duped recently, without restoring the gold I gave to people for said items unwittingly.

The best overall solution in my opinion is to simply permanently ban anyone who used the dupe bug (filtering out accidental ones that did it for example literally once or twice on junk items in a big guild bank on different items, which could legitimately have happened due to how this bug actually worked) explicitly.

The second-best solution, would be to backtrack all the transactions resulted from duped items, rollback the trades only (individual database changes), and leave everything else alone, while banning all of the exploiters/dupers permanently still.

However, simply mass-querying only for people who have a lot of in-game assets, and then banning them, would catch a lot of high-end players who had absolutely nothing to do with exploiting and never have, in the crossfire. It's a terrible idea for a solution.

wean

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

I assume the manpower comment is directed towards all the individual appeals from the people getting banned.

Damia

1, you have to look at this as a beta version of the game not a full release. they should never had released this game yet with all this issues.

2. we are talking about a few weeks. most players are at lvls below 40 now playing normally trough quest etc. most players have like what 10k of gold.

3. they might have a software to track trades items mail etc,,, but with the amount of accounts and players its impossible to remove every single gold or item dupe,,, those items have been moved form their dupe accounts to their main accounts.


leave the game the way it is and you go spend your hours and hours of game play time to reach in 6 month the lvls of the dupers now. by then it wont matter they will have so much much lead in stats you will never matter or even get close to them you will get wiped over and over in pvp.


if they don't roll back the game is dead, if they ban the dupe accounts the main accounts are still in the game, makes no difference.

I personally would not care to play from lvl 1 again , I enjoyed the game and like to continue enjoying and to lvlv will be easier now.


they have to roll back something, this can not be ignored, I will cancel so will many other players once this gets more and more out on the internet, so the game will die anyway.

---

solution 2
don't rollback
remove all gold in game, leave 10k per char= removes gold dupes

remove all items and crafting items above blue(artisan) quality = removes all dupes and prevents new dupes.

---

if none of this happens I will cancel and move on to another game that does not have this issues. and so will
many others, I will not waist my time playing a game that I have 0 change of even getting close to hackers and dupers.

Laerian

THINK. If they can detect the cheaters, rollbacks on characters are meaningless. That is permanent ban.

I'd use a rollback as a last resource, with compensation and a full explanation to the community. Otherwise ZOS needs to identify ALL (I know this probably is not possible) those cheaters and hit them hard to make it clear that they are not welcomed here.

babylon

wean wrote: »

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

I assume the manpower comment is directed towards all the individual appeals from the people getting banned.

If they do it right it will only capture the actual dupers. Just need to follow the money/item trail after they grabbed data on all the wealthy players.

Damia

and yes sorry,, some of you and me as well will loose items but if this does not get fixed remember one thing, you will quit the game and loose all your time and items.

I also say all veteran lvls should be set back to 0

Mufasa

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

What in the world does that have to do with handling all of the individual cases that CS would have to sort through on top of the current ones, including the already known issue of people being auto banned when falling through the world in certain instances..... Derp.

Attorneyatlawl

Damia wrote: »

and yes sorry,, some of you and me as well will loose items but if this does not get fixed remember one thing, you will quit the game and loose all your time and items.

I also say all veteran lvls should be set back to 0

M-m-monster troll! /unreal tournament announcer

Squishy

I will never agree to a rollback. Took me too much time considering I had to take holidays to get my toon where it is now. So nope.

Laerian

mmm... lots of dupers detected

South_of_Heaven

I'd prefer a rollback to having to play in a dupe-plagued server but they won't do it because most of the player base will be angered and after all, they are not even aware that the duping bug exists. If I didn't lurk in the forums I wouldn't know it exists either (wish I didn't).

It's also impossible to detect everything. Don't bet on the dupers getting banned. This is wishful thinking. The best strategy for them is to let us forget about it.

Wouldn't this http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/81980/how-about-a-separate-clean-dupe-bug-free-mega-server?new=1 be a better solution at any case? I don't want to play in a dupe-plagued server, do you? Let those who do continue to play in it and those that won't mind a fresh dupe-free start play in a new server.

Bluntski

Mufasa wrote: »

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

What in the world does that have to do with handling all of the individual cases that CS would have to sort through on top of the current ones, including the already known issue of people being auto banned when falling through the world in certain instances..... Derp.

You clearly didn't read the posts I replied to when I said that.

Damia

and yes fix the software before you do anything else lol, I agree,, that's all I have to say for today, sad that this turned out like this, I really enjoyed this game so far.

JessieColt

Bluntski wrote: »

There absolutely should be a roll back. There are people in full legendary and have full stacks of all tempers. It is possible to only roll back select people. Rift did this when people exploited experience and prestige points.

There is absolutely NO reason why theses people shouldn't be rolled back.

The best way to handle this issue is to fix the issue, terminate the accounts involved, and remove all of the content/inventory items from those accounts so that they are no longer in the game.

Uncle_Bob

Bluntski wrote: »

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

DELETE FROM players WHERE gold > '1000000';

wean

babylon wrote: »

wean wrote: »

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

I assume the manpower comment is directed towards all the individual appeals from the people getting banned.

If they do it right it will only capture the actual dupers. Just need to follow the money/item trail after they grabbed data on all the wealthy players.

That will be what takes the most time. That is why I would think a few bystanders would be hit if they tried to tackle the situation swiftly with the minimal downtime for everyone. I dont condone the innocents being affected but time really is money in an MMO.

Nordak

Rollback and return to beta until a comprehensive fix for all known issues is complete, otherwise I unsub.

Attorneyatlawl

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

I'd prefer a rollback to having to play in a dupe-plagued server but they won't do it because most of the player base will be angered and after all, they are not even aware that the duping bug exists. If I didn't lurk in the forums I wouldn't know it exists either (wish I didn't).

Wouldn't this http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/81980/how-about-a-separate-clean-dupe-bug-free-mega-server?new=1 be a better solution at any case? I don't want to play in a dupe-plagued server, do you? Let those who do continue to play in it and those that won't mind a fresh dupe-free start play in a new server.

I don't know what communities you play with or talk in, but EVERYONE knew this was happening across the guilds and high-end players I talk with regularly. The only sensible solutions are to permanently ban anyone who took advantage of the dupe exploit, and perhaps additionally do a database query to rollback any transactions done with said items on an individual trade basis. That way no one loses anything they didn't have originally and legitimately, while also nullifying the spread of said duped items.

Mufasa

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

Bluntski wrote: »

Mufasa wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

Can you imagine the man power that will take? Now imagine the cost of those employees to deal with all of that on top of the current CS issues.

Manpower? 1 database engineer with a SQL script.

What in the world does that have to do with handling all of the individual cases that CS would have to sort through on top of the current ones, including the already known issue of people being auto banned when falling through the world in certain instances..... Derp.

You clearly didn't read the posts I replied to when I said that.

You mean my post you were replying to... Derp. So, not only did I read it, I wrote what you were replying to. Learn to read before posting. Thanks.

Damia wrote: »

and yes sorry,, some of you and me as well will loose items but if this does not get fixed remember one thing, you will quit the game and loose all your time and items.

I also say all veteran lvls should be set back to 0

No I wont. This has yet to effect me, nor do I for see this effecting me. A rollback of any sort will cause me to walk away though, as I have invested 10 days of game time.

Endolith

Nordak wrote: »

Rollback and return to beta until a comprehensive fix for all known issues is complete, otherwise I unsub.

You're going to be unsubbing.

Attorneyatlawl

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

It's also impossible to detect everything. Don't bet on the dupers getting banned. This is wishful thinking. The best strategy for them is to let us forget about it.
.

Not sure how many MMO's you've played before, but banning exploiters is standard operating procedure. That you call it "wishful thinking" is telling of your level of insight into these kinds of issues.

Nordak

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

DoctorBear wrote: »

wean wrote: »

I would think the best option would be to query the users and compare those have unnatural amounts to the general population. Weed them out and ban them. Let them come to Zen individually and state their case and work from that point. It would be better to harm a smaller population (with some innocent bystanders) than to harm everyone as a whole with rollbacks. I don't think they would recover from the damage of a rollback at this point due to the fact that everyday their credibility dwindles and it is getting closer to the end of the 30 day free period. People will speak with their wallets...and many won't be creating the "I'm Leaving" thread. Of course this is all my 2 cents.

While it seems like a sound strategy, i imagine with all the information that ZOS can gather from the mega-servers for the users to have to be involved (Which would only delay the process, and may have privacy issues implicated) would be unnecessary. In fact, i don't see how innocent bystanders would have to necessarily be harmed in any sense, other than the items that they may have bought (unknowingly) from dupers being deleted. And in which case they could be compensated with the gold they originally traded for those items. To me, that seems more sensible. But yes, users who clearly had no hand in legendary items or were effected directly by the dupe, knew about it, or exploited it, I.E the majority of the player-base... Should be allowed to stay untouched by this predicament. Not just from a marketing point of view, but just from logical sense.

I'm quite wealthy in-game, in fact probably one of the top 20-40 wealthiest in ESO at this time both in terms of gold and net worth in items. I'd be pretty tee'd off if they wiped out tons of items I bought with no knowledge or way to know they may have been duped recently, without restoring the gold I gave to people for said items unwittingly.

The best overall solution in my opinion is to simply permanently ban anyone who used the dupe bug (filtering out accidental ones that did it for example literally once or twice on junk items in a big guild bank on different items, which could legitimately have happened due to how this bug actually worked) explicitly.

The second-best solution, would be to backtrack all the transactions resulted from duped items, rollback the trades only (individual database changes), and leave everything else alone, while banning all of the exploiters/dupers permanently still.

However, simply mass-querying only for people who have a lot of in-game assets, and then banning them, would catch a lot of high-end players who had absolutely nothing to do with exploiting and never have, in the crossfire. It's a terrible idea for a solution.

Funny man. The only way you were making a few million gold an hour was exploit.