Laughable Patchnotes

Lukati_K

Darrett wrote: »

A lot of people need to get over themselves. It's a low level quest that was difficult for some builds even knowing the mechanics. The orbs don't always die in one hit, and there are several of them.

I didn't have a huge problem with it, but it was pretty hectic with a 2H. 1-2 swings to kill an orb and only a few seconds to stop them. Took quite a while.

It doesn't hurt to make starter quest bosses less frustrating for new players. Level 8 is not level 50.

"Difficult" and "frustrating" are not reasons to nerf anything. They are reasons to become a better player, and overcome the obstacle laid before you. Level 1 or 50, it shouldn't make a difference.

Extractor

Chirru wrote: »

Sorry OP...
most of us are not as skilled players as you are.

Personally...i am more the casual office type player and
there are definitely limits to what i can cope with.

Then maybe this is not the game for you, Its difficult because they not only expect you to have the proper gear for the level but they do not want low levels with extremely good gear to come in and breeze through it. Most of the time they have been spot on for quest level progression, there were a few quests that sent you to an area that was a bit too aggressive at its lvl or like its a 20 lvl quest making you fight lvl 23 mobs, not cool in this game they can tear you up if your not properly geared. I actually enjoy a game that makes you think before you drop the gauntlets and start a fight. If a area is too tough or a quest is too hard, I just find some better armor or weapon, maybe gain a level and come back and try again.

rwood0604_ESO

KerinKor wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

Doshia is not a real boss. She was a Daedric Harvester which is a normal enemy in the game later on, found in many places. If you can't handle Doshia then you are seriously screwed later.

What you and the other 'achievers' are so clearly ignoring is that this boss was over-tuned ON LEVEL.

IOW, most players on most builds couldn't 'win' ON LEVEL, as an early poster commented most players that beat it were OVER LEVEL.

THAT is the problem for which a 'nerf' was required. I'm happy if you and others in this thread whining about 'wowification' beat it on level, good for you, fact is many couldn't and ZOS realised it was a Bad Thing.

Man I leveled when I beat Doshia each time I mean all you have to do is attack attack attack watch out for the lighting and then get healed by killing her orbs that's free heals how could you possibly not beat her I beat her in the soul shriven gear one dagger with only one skill(mage's fury) how much easier do people want this to be, perhaps we should just add an auto quest feature and let the game do all the work for us and you just watch it like a movie.The point here is people just don't know how to think for themselves and they should go play those facebook games where all you do is click a link and it does everything (why those games exists is beyond me you don't even do anything for yourself at all).

rwood0604_ESO

my bad i meant to say i was under leveled*

Hawke

@Xenrae Did you honestly take the time in watching the video I made? And if you did take the time to watch it, can you honestly say that if you had to face her again, you would have the same trouble?

I try to help people learn the mechanics, teach a man how to fish so he won't go hungry kinda thing.

Oh that reminds me...

Watch the first part of this video and then imagine players of Call of Duty and Battlefield told the developers "It's too hard to move around and all these weapons are confusing, and I am having trouble".. .then did what Rambo did..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFFi3PHp5qM

Darrett

Lukati_K wrote: »

"Difficult" and "frustrating" are not reasons to nerf anything. They are reasons to become a better player, and overcome the obstacle laid before you. Level 1 or 50, it shouldn't make a difference.

Actually they're exactly reasons to nerf a beginning quest. It's far more difficult and frustrating for certain builds, to the point people are being told to come back and do it again at 12+.

It doesn't have much to do with becoming a better player. You only have a few seconds to down each orb, and they can take 2 swings each with a 2H weapon. Not enough time to do so. Eventually you'll wear her down because you're also being healed, but it isn't a good way to introduce people to your game. At level 8 you haven't had enough time to really get acquainted with the systems, and so a gentle introduction is better than a fight that takes 10 minutes to win without certain setups, even when you know the fight going into it.

rwood0604_ESO

Lukati_K wrote: »

Baratan wrote: »

Nevermind the fact that many gamers play games for the satisfaction of overcoming a challenge or bettering their own skill and ability to play a game. Mind as well just remove health from the game altogether and give players "I win" and "I lose" buttons.

This is spot on. For every post like this, however, there is a post explaining how challenges like these fly in the face of the "casual gaming experience."

There are those who like to play games, and those who like to watch games as if they are movies. The latter have taken over a good portion of the MMO market, apparently.

Those of you who wish to watch or play on rails, please go find that game.

If only that would happen man, it seems like they are more determined to ruin good games for the rest of us though.

mutharex

ZOS if you design this game for brainless monkeys, only them will want to play it. I know I don't want to pay 15€ a month to play another wowclone where every time somebody whines too loud the devs go into doggy style position...

Hawke

IronMaiden_burnout wrote: »

Hawke wrote: »

Here is the video... Level 6 (Doshia is level 8) and no morphed skills, only the 3 basic class skills, and Shield weapon (no weapon skills, no racial skills, nothing).

I took her down after the orb bug stopped bugging out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StaXyRhCS78


She is not impossible, you just have to use interrupt, or go ranged on her. And you do not need aoe!

Well of course hes a mage in a fighter's guild quest. I tried with my 2H fighter at level 8 and got killed bad, did it just last night at level 13 now and it was still a good fight but I wooped her good.

@IronMaiden_burnout to be fair, I did make a post asking about class/weapon combinations on what people were having trouble with... Nightblade and Sorcerer were the top two.. shield was the top answer for weapons.

Hawke

I can make a fighter and do it all over again at level 6, and not train in any class skills... but the point was made.. interrupt and kill the orbs and the fight is not that hard. Just challenging.

nerevarine1138

Hawke wrote: »

@IronMaiden_burnout to be fair, I did make a post asking about class/weapon combinations on what people were having trouble with... Nightblade and Sorcerer were the top two.. shield was the top answer for weapons.

Which is odd, because my dual-wield Nightblade (apparently one of the hardest classes for this) had no trouble once I figured out how the mechanics worked.

Hawke

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Hawke wrote: »

@IronMaiden_burnout to be fair, I did make a post asking about class/weapon combinations on what people were having trouble with... Nightblade and Sorcerer were the top two.. shield was the top answer for weapons.

Which is odd, because my dual-wield Nightblade (apparently one of the hardest classes for this) had no trouble once I figured out how the mechanics worked.

This is exactly what I have been trying to educate people about.

jandjpaprockib14_ESO

I can't see them making it any easier! I beat her twice with two different toons at level 9. Trust me, if I can do it, anyone can..lol I used a Templar and Sorcerer. Each had the Silver Bolts spell from the fighters guild and with that it was easy to keep her down. Fight didn't take long at all with either toon.

I really hope they don't start making this game any easier or I may have drop my sub. If I want WoW easy I will play WoW.

Nightman'Cometh

Geez, by the looks of this thread you'd think the devs were adding auto-attack or something.

I did the quest as a level 8 DK, then as a level 7 sorcerer. I totally agree that class and build has a big impact on how difficult this quest is perceived. I understood the mechanics, but on my DK it was difficult. When you first engage her she spawns an add, my first death was just getting her into snake form and killing her pet. After that, it was not always easy to smash the orbs as sometimes I'd swing my sword right through them. My low DPS and low stamina left me with a long, drawn out fight that I finally managed to get through with the help of potions and ultimate. On my sorcerer, it was over in a couple of minutes and not difficult in the least bit.

Overall, I don't see the harm in *slightly* reducing her damage or health while keeping the overall integrity of the fight the same. If you genuinely feel as though a change this insignificant is "ruining the game" I think you need reevaluate some things about your life.

Supersomething

Nightman'Cometh wrote: »

Geez, by the looks of this thread you'd think the devs were adding auto-attack or something.

I did the quest as a level 8 DK, then as a level 7 sorcerer. I totally agree that class and build has a big impact on how difficult this quest is perceived. I understood the mechanics, but on my DK it was difficult. When you first engage her she spawns an add, my first death was just getting her into snake form and killing her pet. After that, it was not always easy to smash the orbs as sometimes I'd swing my sword right through them. My low DPS and low stamina left me with a long, drawn out fight that I finally managed to get through with the help of potions and ultimate. On my sorcerer, it was over in a couple of minutes and not difficult in the least bit.

Overall, I don't see the harm in *slightly* reducing her damage or health while keeping the overall integrity of the fight the same. If you genuinely feel as though a change this insignificant is "ruining the game" I think you need reevaluate some things about your life.

No point in debating this anymore because the "slippery slope" argument is being used. There is no proof to prove any direct cause between nerfing low level content and making the game a "wowified" mess at later points of the game. There may be correlation but no causation.

mutharex

"Geez, by the looks of this thread you'd think the devs were adding auto-attack or something"

well, that's the problem, with what they have already nerfed (and always in reaction to hysterical whines) we aren't that sure that's so remote and unlikely

Lukati_K

Darrett wrote: »

Actually they're exactly reasons to nerf a beginning quest. It's far more difficult and frustrating for certain builds, to the point people are being told to come back and do it again at 12+.

It doesn't have much to do with becoming a better player. You only have a few seconds to down each orb, and they can take 2 swings each with a 2H weapon. Not enough time to do so. Eventually you'll wear her down because you're also being healed, but it isn't a good way to introduce people to your game. At level 8 you haven't had enough time to really get acquainted with the systems, and so a gentle introduction is better than a fight that takes 10 minutes to win without certain setups, even when you know the fight going into it.

It has everything to do with becoming a better player. With my healer, it took me a few tries to kill Doshia because I was not fully aware of her ability to heal. Becoming smarter about your fight is becoming a better player. With my alt, even with my knowledge of Doshia, it took almost a dozen tries, and I only succeeded when I fully repaired, ate some food, and equipped a new sword with an enchantment on it. During those failed battles, I learned how to use my sword/board better, and learned the usefulness of all the potions and foods this game offers. It absolutely took me becoming a better player to defeat Doshia.

And you know what? Not once, amongst all those failures, did I feel the game was at fault, or that an over-powered Doshia was to blame.

Getorix

I liked the difficulty of doshia and gut ripper in beta, took me a few tries to get them figured out and I like that in an mmo. The wow kiddies don't like that and they are the majority these days so devs are going to bend to their will.

I understand it and I don't mind it as long as they just keep it to lower level and main story lines and leave in some difficult optional content for people who want the challenge.

And btw for all the people having problems with these kinds of things, im betting they are 2 or three levels under the quests level and that is why they are getting stomped on such easy quest mobs.

Infernocash

1. Stay behind her
2. Attack orbs
Don't see how this was a difficult fight lol

TwoClips

*Heavy Sigh*
One component that I love is the challenge of hard bosses. It makes you think and plan out battles.
I'm really saddened to think that they might make it so bosses can be steamrolled.
Yesterday I was playing my templar and did both Doshia and Gutsripper. I was so amazed at how easy it was to kill them.
In Betas they were dreaded and feared, now you might as well bring them a cupcake and socialize with them.
So much for challenges in the game.......

mutharex

I have the feeling that when the 30 free days are off we will see all the stuff the wowkiddies are asking. ALL OF IT

Darzil

What level you hit it will depend on whether you went back to the starter island, whether you did quests along the way or just did it when it opened. There is a huge level range based on that! The flow isn't nearly as good not starting in the starter island, unfortunately.

If you want to keep content hard, I'd recommend talking about challenge rather than denigrating those that you perceive as not wanting it. I'd love to see more challenging content (and those quests/monsters flagged as such), but there is a difficult balance job to be made in main/guild/zone story questlines between challenge/drama and player abilities/enjoyment. Undaunted would be a great place to have challenges, as that's the focus of the guild!

mutharex

Darzil wrote: »

What level you hit it will depend on whether you went back to the starter island, whether you did quests along the way or just did it when it opened. There is a huge level range based on that! The flow isn't nearly as good not starting in the starter island, unfortunately.

And do you remember why the flow was messed up and we don't start in the tutorial islands anymore? And most newbs don't even know about the islands?
Yep, the same *** trend:listen to whiners

Hawke

That video I made,, I skipped the starter area. That is why I was 3 or more levels below what one would normally be going in.

It's all in the technique. I thought I did a decent job explaining that...

I think I am going to make tutorial video for TESO....

The_Death_Princess

Have to agree with the general tone here devs, as in Why? I get at this low level it is the toughest fight in Auridon, but, to nerf it this way was wrong. I would much rather see the limitation of not being able to group for it removed. Also, the Ayellid well outside. Why is it that once in a blue moon I see it up and 1 - yes one person could use it. I bet a huge percentage of people could finish Doshia with it up. Go figure, an early lesson in wells.

I get it. My friend was frustrated as hell that he couldnt get it, but was Proud when he finally got her with his toon at 19! NOTHING states that all toons need to do this at lvl 12. I actually had to laugh at the ease of it for me. I had just spec'd silver bolt. So between that and the templar javelin I kept her on her back whilst pounding her silly with me sword!

So take heart all you that find A boss too hard. The Huntress will put it in it's place.

Yes to me, this looks like your first crush to the masses in a decision - lets stop this trend ASAP.

psychounz

Why does everyone assume the worst case scenario? Admittedly, I was surprised about Doshia. The first time I encountered her with my NB I didn't know what to expect, but the second time (again with a NB), I took her down pretty easily.

But, to the original question, why is everyone assuming the worst?

Why can't we just enjoy the game as it evolves (as it clearly will over the course of time)? Are there things I don't like now? Sure. Are there things I'd like to see implemented? Sure. Are there things I don't want changed? Sure. But if they decide to change something, whether that's for better or for worse for me as an individual, what they're doing is what they feel is the best for the community at large (not necessarily just those complaining that the game is too hard/easy/complicated/not complicated/etc.)

I mean, well... I guess I'm just more easy going, maybe. Sure, I get frustrated when my character lags out and I suddenly my skill bar doesn't work in the middle of battle and I end up dying... but at the end of the day, who cares? It'll get fixed, and in the mean time, I'll revive and continue on my way. Or, if the server is down... I'll go do something else (another game, read, or, heck... I'll even try sunlight again).

If you don't like it, don't play. If you like it, keep playing. Why doom and gloom into Oblivion guessing what they will or won't do? Just chill, sit back, and relax, It's not the end of Nirn.

Pang

Supersomething wrote: »

Nightman'Cometh wrote: »

Geez, by the looks of this thread you'd think the devs were adding auto-attack or something.

I did the quest as a level 8 DK, then as a level 7 sorcerer. I totally agree that class and build has a big impact on how difficult this quest is perceived. I understood the mechanics, but on my DK it was difficult. When you first engage her she spawns an add, my first death was just getting her into snake form and killing her pet. After that, it was not always easy to smash the orbs as sometimes I'd swing my sword right through them. My low DPS and low stamina left me with a long, drawn out fight that I finally managed to get through with the help of potions and ultimate. On my sorcerer, it was over in a couple of minutes and not difficult in the least bit.

Overall, I don't see the harm in *slightly* reducing her damage or health while keeping the overall integrity of the fight the same. If you genuinely feel as though a change this insignificant is "ruining the game" I think you need reevaluate some things about your life.

No point in debating this anymore because the "slippery slope" argument is being used. There is no proof to prove any direct cause between nerfing low level content and making the game a "wowified" mess at later points of the game. There may be correlation but no causation.

Except that many of us have been playing the game even before Live and have already seen this happen. This isn't the first time Doshia was nerfed or that Bosses and content made easier. We have already started down the slippery slope and there is no turning back now.

mutharex

psychounz wrote: »

Why does everyone assume the worst case scenario? Admittedly, I was surprised about Doshia. The first time I encountered her with my NB I didn't know what to expect, but the second time (again with a NB), I took her down pretty easily.

But, to the original question, why is everyone assuming the worst?

Why can't we just enjoy the game as it evolves (as it clearly will over the course of time)? Are there things I don't like now? Sure. Are there things I'd like to see implemented? Sure. Are there things I don't want changed? Sure. But if they decide to change something, whether that's for better or for worse for me as an individual, what they're doing is what they feel is the best for the community at large (not necessarily just those complaining that the game is too hard/easy/complicated/not complicated/etc.)

I mean, well... I guess I'm just more easy going, maybe. Sure, I get frustrated when my character lags out and I suddenly my skill bar doesn't work in the middle of battle and I end up dying... but at the end of the day, who cares? It'll get fixed, and in the mean time, I'll revive and continue on my way. Or, if the server is down... I'll go do something else (another game, read, or, heck... I'll even try sunlight again).

If you don't like it, don't play. If you like it, keep playing. Why doom and gloom into Oblivion guessing what they will or won't do? Just chill, sit back, and relax, It's not the end of Nirn.

It's not this nerf in particular, it's just a trend that started with the tutorial islands, passed through the tragicomedy that was "The weapons Rack" in the tutorial (all of its incarnations), then Gutripper, then then then,..

The devs have to clarify if they really want to stick to their vision OR to sell a few extra box turn this into some easy mode wowclone
Because right now, that seems the direction

nyxnox

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Waste of breath. Wowification has already started and it's obvious where the devs are going to bring the game. Shame

You also, both of you are just being silly. Wowification over a nerfed level 8 mob. Upset that people having trouble with it. Claim that people must l2p.

Prime example of what mmo community has turned out to be.

You see, back in the old days. we did not judge people who could not do things like this. We helped them, we understood that player skill comes at all forms, and not every one is quick with the buttons, but still wants to enjoy the mmo and community.


Now, it is L2p OMG making the game easier for others.

Sad excuse for gamers.

Wish I could find people like you in the game more often!! I ran a dungeon (my first time) with a guy that just yelled at everyone the whole time. It was the least fun I've ever had playing this game. I don't mind difficulty, but I am ultimately there to have fun, not become stressed out. A little help and sense of humor goes a long way.

malais

Pang wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

Nightman'Cometh wrote: »

Geez, by the looks of this thread you'd think the devs were adding auto-attack or something.

I did the quest as a level 8 DK, then as a level 7 sorcerer. I totally agree that class and build has a big impact on how difficult this quest is perceived. I understood the mechanics, but on my DK it was difficult. When you first engage her she spawns an add, my first death was just getting her into snake form and killing her pet. After that, it was not always easy to smash the orbs as sometimes I'd swing my sword right through them. My low DPS and low stamina left me with a long, drawn out fight that I finally managed to get through with the help of potions and ultimate. On my sorcerer, it was over in a couple of minutes and not difficult in the least bit.

Overall, I don't see the harm in *slightly* reducing her damage or health while keeping the overall integrity of the fight the same. If you genuinely feel as though a change this insignificant is "ruining the game" I think you need reevaluate some things about your life.

No point in debating this anymore because the "slippery slope" argument is being used. There is no proof to prove any direct cause between nerfing low level content and making the game a "wowified" mess at later points of the game. There may be correlation but no causation.

Except that many of us have been playing the game even before Live and have already seen this happen. This isn't the first time Doshia was nerfed or that Bosses and content made easier. We have already started down the slippery slope and there is no turning back now.

This this a thousand time this.